Halflife 2 Ns

Kush · April 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">How soon after release?</div> Does anybody know if Natural Selection will just be a matter of porting it to half-life 2, or will it have to be rebuilt from the ground up? I can't wait to see what kind of maps are made once the detail limits and stuff are limited more by computing power than the old HL engine.

Gerald_R_Ford · April 2004

no one really knows if you can port it directly from hl to hl2. If it ever happends, it will probably have to be remade from the ground up, with most of the work being on the models.

DuoTheGodOfDeath · April 2004

The maps should be easy to port over, as long as the sources still exist. The source files are the same for hl and hl2, the textures are different though, since hl2 uses materials, not textures. I think most of it will be considerably easy to convert, but whats the point of that. The only part of switching that I will not like is losing all the maps that we have grown so so fond of.

Kush · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> hl2 uses materials, not textures </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Materials? Is that like an enhanced texture that is 3d or something? (like alien fungus stuff that actually sticks out?)

I kind of hope NS 2 is done totally fresh for halflife 2. After looking at the size of the known bug list, the idea of porting ns 1 somehow to HL2 scares me. (and probably the devs too <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> ) I suppose the textures would not only look ugly but they probably wouldnt fit right either.

I hope HL2 will be very mod-friendly.

lagger · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kush @ Apr 21 2004, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Does anybody know if Natural Selection will just be a matter of porting it to half-life 2, or will it have to be rebuilt from the ground up? I can't wait to see what kind of maps are made once the detail limits and stuff are limited more by computing power than the old HL engine.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
When are we landing on mars? When is cold fusion going to be invented? What kind of question is that lol.

Thats_Enough · April 2004

Flayra never said he would port to HL2 or what engine NS would end up on.

Bottom line: don't go out buying HL2 for the SOLE REASON that you believe NS2 will show up on it. Then again... why you wouldn't by HL2 is beyond me. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Jabba_The_Hunt · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Apr 21 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When is cold fusion going to be invented? What kind of question is that lol.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Actually cold fusions already around they just dont know what causes it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

esuna · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoTheGodOfDeath @ Apr 21 2004, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The maps should be easy to port over, as long as the sources still exist. The source files are the same for hl and hl2, the textures are different though, since hl2 uses materials, not textures. I think most of it will be considerably easy to convert, but whats the point of that. The only part of switching that I will not like is losing all the maps that we have grown so so fond of.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yes and no. You can simply import the map, but you'd have to redo all the entities and texturing. It's still going to be a hell of a lot of work with a "simple port". And ontop of that, the maps, while highly detailed for HL1, could use a lot of work making them even more detailed for HL2. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

If i remember correctly, Flayra said that even if he moved to HL2, he would rebuild from the ground up. So don't expect NS to be out within a year of HL2's released, that's <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>IF</b></span> it ever does make that move.

Cr-ck · April 2004

Before we talk about NS2 on HL2...

Lets talk about how late HL2 is going to be delayed...2005 i bet.

xtcmen · April 2004

I was hoping it was gonna come with the Radeon 9800 Xt <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

Maveric · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kush @ Apr 21 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> hl2 uses materials, not textures </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Materials? Is that like an enhanced texture that is 3d or something? (like alien fungus stuff that actually sticks out?) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Correct.

Materials are similar to textures in that they can have a visual image placed over them, however, there are multiple variables that can be altered to create effects like opacity, self-illumation, shine, shine strength, wether or not it has a "bump map" place onto it (bump maps do what they proclaim; they add "bumps" to a material, even though it is still very 2 dimentional) as well as a huge variety of other things.

Anyone dealing with a profesional-quality level 3D modeling/creation program like 3D Studio Max knows this.

[edit- as for a NS to HL2 chances, it depends on just how good the transfer system is. If it can be converted 100% accurate, a map's texturing/lighting/entities will have to be "fixed", models will have to have increased polygon counts to look nice, and undoubtably the smaller things (like spores and umbra) will have to have their effects changed to become volumetric and various other things.

If you can't convert HL mods to HL2 absolutely perfectly, NS will have to be re-made on HL2; which could mean 2-4 more years of production, after the HL2 SDK is released -- and even that's if the NS Dev team jump right on it from the get-go. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /> ]

panda_de_malheureux · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Materials? Is that like an enhanced texture that is 3d or something? (like alien fungus stuff that actually sticks out?)</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

thats bump mapping

materials are just better, no need to confuse things.

Swiftspear · April 2004

Don't expect an NS port for HL2, NS2 will undoubtably be a totally new game
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>NS was first contact, NS2 will be the war...</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/' target='_blank'>Unknown Worlds</a>

TommyVercetti · April 2004

Also, I think the materials system will change how being hit by different weapon types will effect walls/textures. For example, a wooden fence would blow apart and splinter immediately if someone sprayed it with an HMG (note to devs: we need wooden fences in NS2), whereas a solid metal wall would simply display bullet damage and maybe cause the bullets to ricochet.

ANeM · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Apr 21 2004, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If you can't convert HL mods to HL2 absolutely perfectly, NS will have to be re-made on HL2; which could mean 2-4 more years of production, after the HL2 SDK is released -- and even that's if the NS Dev team jump right on it from the get-go. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /> ]  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
That doesn't matter either way.. if I'm not mistaken, Flayra has been quoted on numerous occasions saying that NS will not be ported to HL2, and NS2 will be a completely new game.. Not just a port over from an old engine.

ktimekiller · April 2004

even though ns will not be on hl2, i will still get hl2 because its da bomb(i know because i played the beta, dont tell anyone that i did or i go and get u <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />)

ViPr · April 2004

materials are a collection of many different types of texture all working together on a surface. types such as diffuse,specular, gloss, opacity, bump etc. you could also not use textures for these things and just use a single value for each of them which is like using a texture with just 1 texel. this can be mixed with the textures as well though. multiple textures for the same type can also be mixed together with a weighting value or a mask texture. materials can be mixes of multiple materials as well. most probably in games the mixing will not be done in realtime coz it's so slow. so the textures will usually be pre-mixed down to single textures of each type which i think is referred to as flattening. then there's also procedural textures which are textures that are not painted by any human but created by the program with sophisticated math. these textures can be 3d so they are like 3d images but they never get stored as texels but tey are calculated for every pixel in the final render only. well i think you can store them as 3d bitmap files as well but that would take a load of memory. there's just so much you can do with materials in programs like 3dsmax. i can't go into all of it here.

Doom3 can do diffuse, specular, additive, opacity, bump(using normal maps or using heightmaps a.k.a displacement maps which get converted and combined to the normal maps in this game) but it is missing gloss maps which i consider to be crucial. i don't know about Far-Cry or Half-life 2 except that they support normal maps and probably diffuse maps.

btw ironically and much to my horror and anger, 3dsmax cannot use normal maps.

digz · April 2004

If it was possible, who is to say NS wont be ported onto HL2? I mean, Flayra probably will have someone else doing the majority of the bug/code work by then(ie, if you read the front page). Sooner or later NS will become an official "non" beta. If the demand is there, I dont see why someone in the NS dev team (prob not part of UWE, since they will be working on NS2) wouldn't do it if they wanted to (of course, with Flayras permission). Im not talking about NS2, just good ol NS with beefed up graphics/effects.

FLAYRA might not be porting it, but his lacky might <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> ...just speculation.

IceBaron · April 2004

We asked this of Flayra in irc the other day. Same day he watched this video;
<a href='http://www.giantninjarobots.net/stuff/sparkowned.wmv' target='_blank'>http://www.giantninjarobots.net/stuff/sparkowned.wmv</a>

He said that there had been no decision yet as to if they were going to make ns for the hl2 engine. But he did say as soon as a decision was made he would let us know.

btw, his comment on the sparkowned movie was;

<Flayra|beta4-friday> I really don't see what the big deal is with the sparks. That video shows sparks, but they're not a big deal, barely even noticeable.

hehe.

Swiftspear · April 2004

Since when does Flay not know that the shotgun doesn't take 3 hits to kill a skulk in the game he made?

On a somewhat unrelated issue, the "spark bug" is probably the dumbest name people could have come up with for this. Clearly the error has nothing to do with the actual sparks, those show up whenever you shoot a wall, its only really an annoying error because the model and hitbox are violently separated from eachother.

Insane · April 2004

In all likelihood, there will be no straight port of NS to HL2. If such a thing does happen, the most likely case is that it will be built again from the ground up, to take better advantage of the new tech.

However, UWE's existence now has to be taken into account. If I were to make a bet, I'd say that Flayra's next project is goint to be a UWE retail game. This may take place in the NS world, it may be an original concept, but that's the most probable case. As for HL2/Source; they could be using that, although his statements so far on the matter are that he haven't chosen an engine for UWE's first project.

CForrester · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 22 2004, 01:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Since when does Flay not know that the shotgun doesn't take 3 hits to kill a skulk in the game he made?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
He was mistaken, he thought it was a visual error caused by shooting behind the skulk or something. We saw him in IRC yesterday and he was working on it, so we're hoping that it gets fixed soon. If you have any leads, make sure you email Flayra.

ViPr · April 2004

is NS2 supposed to replace NS1 or be a completely different game in the same universe kind of like Command & Conquer and Renegade? i think it should replace NS1 and just add more stuff. it should have all the stuff we wanted in NS1 but couldn't have because of Half-Life1 engine limitations.

Nurot · April 2004

What they should do is if they make NS2 is port NS1 to that engine becasue by that time it'll be an official 3.0 or higher, so people who join at NS2 get both games and all of us can get retail 1 included. I only say this because I personally am not one to buy just the sequal, obviously we all play 1, but it would make more sales if one was included for those who have never played NS1. I know for a fact that if I had never played 1 when 2 came out I wouldnt buy it, rather the only way I would play it is if I got it from a friend, then if I liked it enough I might buy the game for a back-up, but likewise with cs and cs:cz, almost everyone who bought it was a fan of the first. I can't imagine myself even having it if I wasn't a fan of cs, but that may just be me.

Nemesis_Zero · April 2004

NS2 is one of the possible projects Unknown Worlds Entertainment may start working on soon. In any case, it'd be a full-price, retail product based on a licensed engine - no prognosis as to which it'll be can be made at this point.
There are currently no plans regarding porting NS to HL2.

On an unrelated note, please use the search feature before posting a thread, this has been brought up several times already.

<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>

Halflife 2 Ns

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