Basic Marine > Basic Skulk
NightCrawlerz
Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15609Members
Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15609Members
<div class="IPBDescription">hands down</div> Ive been playing tons of ns games with alot of really good players and have noticed somthing about ns. Early game marines totaly over power aleins. A skilled marine will always kill a skilled skulk and maybe 2. The marines completely overpower aleins in early game. Just go to any server with skilled players and look at the kills on marines team and kills on aleins.
But odly enough this is balanced because aleins totaly dominate marines once fades appear, which is usualy after the second hive has gone up.
instead of having marines comletly wipe the floor with aleins early game and having the aleins rape marines in teir 2, Why not weaken both of them so that it stays even through teir 1 and 2.
my suggestions.
slightly buff skulks by either giving them 10-20 more armor OR increse their speed.
Nerf fades by nerfing blink. Without the all powerfull blink fades will fall more quickly. i would suggest increseing the energy requirement for blinking slightyly so that fades cant hit and run as well because thats exactly what make them too strong.
Another thing......
Late game it seems pretty balanced although aleins need someway to counter a massive wall of heavys, beacuse once a heavy trian comes to town aleins get anal raped pretty hard.
The aleins.......
The new lerk is exactly what it should be... a flying skulk. The lerks new infinate flying gave it just what it needed to justify its frailty, mobility and speed.
i still belive that their should be an evolution bridge built between skulk and fade. because as of right now between the 2 there is a giant gap in power. Ive suggested a stronger skulk evoultion many times to alliviate this. And maybe a new skulk evolution would solve the early game marine pwnage.
o well thats enought.
But odly enough this is balanced because aleins totaly dominate marines once fades appear, which is usualy after the second hive has gone up.
instead of having marines comletly wipe the floor with aleins early game and having the aleins rape marines in teir 2, Why not weaken both of them so that it stays even through teir 1 and 2.
my suggestions.
slightly buff skulks by either giving them 10-20 more armor OR increse their speed.
Nerf fades by nerfing blink. Without the all powerfull blink fades will fall more quickly. i would suggest increseing the energy requirement for blinking slightyly so that fades cant hit and run as well because thats exactly what make them too strong.
Another thing......
Late game it seems pretty balanced although aleins need someway to counter a massive wall of heavys, beacuse once a heavy trian comes to town aleins get anal raped pretty hard.
The aleins.......
The new lerk is exactly what it should be... a flying skulk. The lerks new infinate flying gave it just what it needed to justify its frailty, mobility and speed.
i still belive that their should be an evolution bridge built between skulk and fade. because as of right now between the 2 there is a giant gap in power. Ive suggested a stronger skulk evoultion many times to alliviate this. And maybe a new skulk evolution would solve the early game marine pwnage.
o well thats enought.
Comments
First, skulks are fairly scary. Without med support, marines seem to go down fairly easy to bunnyhopping skulks, or larger groups of skulks, and since skulks are faster, they can group up far more easily and still respond to attacks. Admittedly, marines will still tend to out do skulks, simply because their attacks are ranged, and due to crack hopping. However, it seems like it's very good right now.
Additionally, the fade is supposed to be fairly powerful. First, it IS supposed to be hit and run. If it was walking up and beating up packs of marines without blinking in and out quickly, THEN there would be a problem. Additionally, a fade is 50 res, and 3 DCs are 30, and a hive is 40. So, with 70 res worth of upgrades, marines have armor 1, and weapon 2. For the 50 res, they can drop 5 shotguns. If they work together, that's normally enough to take down fades.
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Or, if the vets dislike this idea, then enable knockback only in tournament mode.
ANd whats this about 180 degree bite radius? Thats just stupid, that means I get anywhere near a marine they die. If your smart you can get behind even a good marine, and chomp thier ankles off.
Very oftern i will be pressed right up againt a moving marine whilst facing and biting, but less than half my attacks are scoring hits. The only way to be sure of a hit is if the marine doesnt move at all.
However, I think removing those would provoke howls of fury from most people on the boards here, as I expect the vast majority of those who can b-hop only are able to do so with scripts.
Me, I'm a purist. I don't change anything if I can't change it from within the game options menu.
skulks aren't meant to go full force into marines until they have leap, and even at that, it's hit and run. much as fade. a skulk with leap is as good as a fade in a pinch.
that in mind, until you get leap, hide in vents and set up ambushes. don't run into a long hallway alone against 1-2 rines. you won't make it to them before they get 5,000 shots into you.
but yes, knockback combined with non-registering bites does not = thewin.
Skulks have no advantages. They have NO melee advantage. they have no range advantage. they die extremely fast and do mediocre damage that sends marines flying.
The only thing that keeps skulks in the game is that they are a basic unit and cost 0 res to use. But when you think of it in terms of respawn skulks die extremely fast and kill nothing and THEN fill up the spawn que. They block onos and fades and take as long as a fade to heal with regen.
Why would you want to be a skulk??? because you HAVE to. There is no choice involved. When you spawned your made the weakest lifeform with little or no chance of getting kills late game.
The problem with this is that the lerk fade gorge and onos each have a distinct feel to them. And when each has a disteict feel they become equaly valuable to the overall feel of the game. When you give somone a multitue of vaiable playing choices it gives the game depth and apply to a wider varitey of players.
The balance team "flay" as taken a completely uniqe playing style in ns and turned it into utter crap. Come on flay you have an entire playing style here. THIS can all be expanded on so that the skulk's style of play remains. Make a new life form make a new upgrade make the skulk uniqe, but find a way. Maybe flay hates playing as a skuk. maybe he likes to be a big buff unit that flys around swiping everyone. Maybe thats why the fade is soo rediculous. It seems logical that the unit flay loves the most would get the most attention and so it seems it has. The fade as of right now is borderline CRAZY. The fade combines massive hp with blinding speed and good damage AND the only regeneration skill in the game....
doesnt this seem a little odd to you?
the fade:
1. has an attack with great damage and a fast attack speed.
2. has the best movement skill in the game
3. has the best regeneration skill in the game
4. has the best ranged weapon in the game ( not saying much)
the skulk:
1. Worst hp in the game
2. 2nd best attack
3. worst movement skill in the game
4. attack that only kills 20% of the time AND kills you
5. because of his suicide attack upgrades are worthless.
6. beacause its has the worst hp in the game upgades are a waste.
you can all say NO **** HES IS THE WORST HES FREE!!!
well duh.... but because the playing style of the skulk is equaly exciting and uniqe as the other lifeforms it does not deserve to be snuffed out and within the first 4 minutes of the game. IM not asking for a MEGA SKULK BUFF im just looking for some way to preserve the skulk style of play while making him just as effective as a fade.
Theres a billion things that could be done to do such a simple thing as add another layer of depth to the game.
heres some :
1. add a new lifeform thats "skulk like"
2. allow skulks to evolve into an advanced form of skulk for res
3. let skulks get stronger as they kill so that when late game rolls around they are on par with the marines.
4. give skulks some sort of advanage LIEK the fastest, the smallest, the most hitting power, the most hp, the most adreniline, the best attack, the best movement ability, the best regeneration.
5. let skulks have free upgrades.
6. lets skulks get ALL the upgrades avalible: 3 movement 3 defence 3 sensory
7. allow skulks to break the upgrades to hives thing so that at hive one skulks have access to any 1 of the upgrades of their choice and chambers are only needed to upgrade the large lifeforms.
god theres just so much that COULD be done but isnt. The skulk is my favorite lifeform and if i had my way id give it all the bells and whistles just like flay has done to the fade.
man i write alot
However, IMO you are correct, a lvl 0 marine is better then a lvl 0 skulk. Just do the math. lvl 0 marine = 100hp and 25ap, lvl 0 skulk = 70hp and 10ap. Add to that the fact that a marine has a ranged weapon and are you really surprised the marine wins?
Mo
The skulk is HA fodder.
I'd suggest beefing the skulk to 70/20 at hive 2.
well isn't that the point? thats like saying its stupid that marines can shoot you from a distance.
I have always thought this would be a great change to skulks and fades. Rines still hold the advantage at range, skulks tear them up better close up.
I don't know about you guys. During the good old days, marines needed to go as a team to conquer. On the other hand, aliens uses brute force. Afterall, marines are weak physically. They need teamwork. That means, a rambo will die regardless.
However, I feel now NS is a bit screwed. Marines are going rambo and hunting for rt nodes while taking down multiple skulks. It's very much opposite than last time where marines group together to cover each other's back. Now it's marine's turn to go one-man-show while skulks regardless will die in the early game.
Reasons of Marines Overpowering in Early Game <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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1) Skulks armour reduce to 10 (was 20 last time)
2) Marines unrealistic crack-jump AKA dodging
3) Marines knockback effect (one bite enuf to propel them very far away)
4) Skulks bite angle reduced (used to be as wide as your HUD last time)
5) CO maps has screwed the whole ns gameplay (rambo mindset)
I used to be very good at skulking last time. Since Beta 3 and 4 came, I feel like skulking isn't the same anymore. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->