No, seriously; was v1.04 that much more fun? Myself, I could had deleted the whole damn game when jet-pack rushes made short work of the last hive for the Nth time.
No, seriously; was v1.04 that much more fun? Myself, I could had deleted the whole damn game when jet-pack rushes made short work of the last hive for the Nth time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I think it got boring towards the end because it got routine: protect gorge, get second hive (maybe third hive concurrently), get fades, win. Oh, and prevent marines doing jp rushes. But jp rushes were reasonably able to be countered (gorges had web ability 2nd hive, if not 2nd hive, get rid of res towers to reduce ability to pass out jps). The only map that I can remember that was famed for jp rushes was ns_nancy, and the recent changes of the vents in the hive (except for port hive) makes it more possible for the aliens to defend.
What's more sillier is when you have a game where a JP pushes a HA/hmg into the vent to attack the hive...
Im perfectly fine with Beta 4 at the moment. We will have to see what the team comes up with when they bring out Beta 5. Hell, if I get enough cash I'll send some your way for the awesome work you guys have done. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Omega_DeathSith apprentice to a box of CerealJoin Date: 2003-08-06Member: 19042Members
My only beef with NS in general is the siege turrets. (Zips up his flame retardant suit.) I'm not saying take them out. I just think that aliens need the option of indirect base assault. I've thought about how there are three hives and only one chair, but the hives are fixed and the chair can be placed anywhere. Marines have the HA train for direct assault and the siege for indirect assault. Aliens have onos fade and fatty rush for direct assault, but where is the indirect assault. They don't have it. Saying things like, "Well dont let them set the siege up." doesn't change the matter. Thats like saying well dont let the onos gestate. If the marine base is turret farmed enough and the marine team has enough heavies in the area it's most likely going up. Plus the matter of it being the greatest way to keep the enemy from building outside of your base. Aliens don't have that option.
<!--QuoteBegin-Theslan+Apr 27 2004, 01:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Theslan @ Apr 27 2004, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, I think it got boring towards the end because it got routine: protect gorge, get second hive (maybe third hive concurrently), get fades, win. Oh, and prevent marines doing jp rushes. But jp rushes were reasonably able to be countered (gorges had web ability 2nd hive, if not 2nd hive, get rid of res towers to reduce ability to pass out jps). The only map that I can remember that was famed for jp rushes was ns_nancy, and the recent changes of the vents in the hive (except for port hive) makes it more possible for the aliens to defend.
What's more sillier is when you have a game where a JP pushes a HA/hmg into the vent to attack the hive... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I've seen the math, and the problem was that marines were able to get jetpacks and head out BEFORE it was MATHEMATICALLY POSSIBLE for the aliens to get the 2nd hive. Well before, if I recall correctly. In order to win vs. a JP rush, you had to be able to take down the jetpackers AS A SKULK or else put OCs in the hive and protect them, meaning you aren't putting down more resource towers meaning that 2nd hive isn't comming for a while and in the meantime the resource flow on the marine side is such that waves of JPers are fast and frequent.
It was one big slippery slope. On the other hand, if the marines DIDN'T jp rush, then the marines had no chance at all, because once the alien team was able to fully fade, there was NOTHING that they could do about it.
Games where marines JP rushed had one node taken for the marines, and either one or no nodes taken for the aliens. Games where marines didn't jp rush had all nodes taken by aliens. Invariably. And taking out a node actually didn't matter all that much... resources weren't all that important-- hives were. Hives were so crucial that another tactic that ocassionally worked was the 2 hive lockdown...
One of 2.0's primary purposes was to de-emphasize hives and make nodes more valuble, in order to make the battle be spread across the entire map instead of JUST at 4 locations: the three hives and marine start. Or the double res location IF and ONLY IF the marines relocated there. That was it.
I honestly don't miss 1.0x at all. It was very unbalanced... if the marines had a mediocrely competant commander and also had at least 1 player getting 100fps (jp was tied to fps, if you recall! My jetpack hardly gets me off the ground while theirs let them sit on the ceiling all game!) the aliens COULD NOT WIN. On servers that didn't have a competant commander able to do the jp rush, and there were many, marines almost NEVER won. I saw the statistics... 70% or more pub games were won by aliens.
So you get a game that is dependant on ONE VARIABLE. That's really boring. Wasn't much fun at all.
I think that 2.01 was the best and most balanced version of the game so far. Now THOSE were some fun ones... very fond memories there.
1.00 was the worst and least balanced version of the game. But then, no one can dispute that. Marines with infinite resources...
The costs were different in 1.04. It took more res for everyything. You could only really afford 2 jp/hmgs with the needed medspam before 2nd hive was up. Killing 2 jps with a lerk that had bite at the time was hard but not impossible. If the aliens got fade the game wasnt over either. There was a guy in RED that was so freakin elite with lerk/bite he would own any jp, but he stopped playing after lerk lost bite. Aliens also had better chance of limiting the number of rts the marines got back then.
Lerk spike would be nice to have again but would be **** against electrified tf. It would go down too fast <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Fieari+Apr 27 2004, 12:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Apr 27 2004, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It was one big slippery slope. On the other hand, if the marines DIDN'T jp rush, then the marines had no chance at all, because once the alien team was able to fully fade, there was NOTHING that they could do about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Say that again to the legendary 3hr+ battles that occured <i>frequently</i>.
Ill say again what Ive said many times. By 1.04, 2 hive lockdowns were simply not an option for the marines. Aliens have became really adapt to taking them down.
Very much agree with Fieari, 2.0 / 2.01 are definitely the most even and best enjoyed game version of NS ever.
Another thing with the beta, my microphone has gone all fuzzy and very laggy, about 6/7 people i know also have the same problem, so it seems that the microphone program has been almost completely busted up.
Mic chat is what im mainly about in these kinda games too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
i have to agree with the first post, i started playing ns during the 2.0 days and i loved it so much more then ns now, why?, i think its because ns has changed so much with its weapon balancing and overall style of play. i like the old ns more because aliens where far more offensive and actually set grouped traps for marines outside bases which you dont see anymore because every alien either needs to get res or is spread out across the map trying to hold onto resnodes or hives, in old ns the aliens built-up across the map with far more structures gaining more ground over time until they secured all the hives, you dont see that now beacuse gorges have far less res to work with beacuse its spead across the team and more importantley aliens always have to defend empty hives and resnodes to stop a rhine domination of the map instead of the gradual spread.
old ns was all about long battles for every room which you simply dont get now beacuse sieges are so easy to setup and aliens cant atack them now because fades cant shoot them, lerks cant shoot them either and skulks are too weak to get to them if they have turrets and are electrified.
ns has now become a game about dominating the resnodes and electrifying them, this makes it almost impossible or aleast seriousley impratical for aliens to destroy them as they cant shoot them anymore or waste res building ocs around them. ns is also more about the individual onos or fade and not the whole team beacuse so much reliance is put on these ppl not to die and so waste the preciuose res.
anyway thats my thoughts , not really well thoughtout or probabley well spelled but thats what i think. old ns was more about team and strategie aswell as TEAMWORK unlike todays ns (which i still love <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Bigfonzie, Im not sure you see some of those things you listed in 2.0...most glaring being that the gorge res system has remained unchanged ever since initial 2.0 release (except reimplementing overflow).
Exer, see the bast threads <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Also, the 'rine buildings on slope is a biggie.
<!--QuoteBegin-Exer+Apr 27 2004, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer @ Apr 27 2004, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it me or are we seeing the largest ever complaints against a released beta?
I've yet to hear a good thing about beta 4.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have one good thing to say about it, ... The bug fixes,
The rest ... well let just say I think it should have just been bug fixes, Some of the other thing done where just a little too much (one spawn at a time in combat + slow xp gain for aliens) I think what we realy need in combat, is a few more lvls. Ther main reasion i like the classic and can't stand the combat for other then aim training, Is that once you take somthing you can't undo it. In Classic You can get lvl 3 Armor and weapons with Ha or Jp Any weapon Com spam cat. packs Scan, welder ect all at once. Also I think that the aliens have been mod. for someting like this to happen, not to run around with lvl 2 armor and lvl 2 weapons In combat i feel too limited by the fact once you take something it for the rest of the round, and you can't get all the the upgrades. I think what they needed to do was make it so that you have to be at least this lvl to get HA ot JP or Focis. say 6.
Ok, I played on a few smaller games, and definitely enjoyed myself more, not nearly as much as version 1.04, but it was fun. I never really understood why so many people thought version 1.04 was so unbalanced. Towards the end when the JP rush became such a common tactic, yes it got bad, but before the JP rush took over it was phenominal. I also loved the fact that the games were LONG. Flayra hated it, said matches should be shorter. Well now they are and it isn't as fun. I still don't understand taking away/nerfing every good alien ranged weapon, especially not in combination with the rediculous crap that is electrified anything. Also, I don't think the fact that aliens won more on pubs was really because of game imbalance, it was because aliens could act as lose group of independants, while the marines required teamwork to win. Anyone who knew and loved 1.04 as much as I did surely has loving remembrances of the rambos on pub servers giving themselves HA and a HMG then running off to die on their own. That kind of behavior is what made the marines lose so often on pubs. So, in conclusion, beta 4, about equal with 2.x I guess, as long as the games are kept small, which is ok by me, I'll never play a game bigger than 8v8 unless radical changes are made to the resource model or the marine upgrade tree. Combat sucks, and always will, because what's the point of taking a game where you've already made the matches too short, and putting in a game mode that makes the matches even shorter? Lastly, 1.04 was the king and ruler of all things NS, and if it keeps up in the direction it's going, always will be.
<!--QuoteBegin-Exer+Apr 27 2004, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer @ Apr 27 2004, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it me or are we seeing the largest ever complaints against a released beta?
I've yet to hear a good thing about beta 4.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Look up the 2.01c beta release thread in the Public Beta forum. Then weep for humanity.
edit for clarification: I say weep because of the <i>sickening</i> amount of complaints.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, I played on a few smaller games, and definitely enjoyed myself more, not nearly as much as version 1.04, but it was fun. I never really understood why so many people thought version 1.04 was so unbalanced. Towards the end when the JP rush became such a common tactic, yes it got bad, but before the JP rush took over it was phenominal. I also loved the fact that the games were LONG.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think long games where the issue. I think it's when long games are allready decided early on but do not end as so very very often was the case in 1.04 that caused flayra to try and make rounds shorter. Strip away the waste of time and keep the action and uncertainty.
omg just because you don't like redemption onos doesn't mean that it has to be removed... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Its not useless, if you use it correctly.
btw: I suck as onos. Lerks and Skulks = My favorite! Even shotgun marines
no match for <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Before they can <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> they end up as lunch for skulk.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Apr 27 2004, 11:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Apr 27 2004, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, I played on a few smaller games, and definitely enjoyed myself more, not nearly as much as version 1.04, but it was fun. [...] I also loved the fact that the games were LONG.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think long games where the issue. I think it's when long games are allready decided early on but do not end as so very very often was the case in 1.04 that caused flayra to try and make rounds shorter. Strip away the waste of time and keep the action and uncertainty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Strip the waste of time and keep the uncertainity (and action)? *rereads again* Ok, you're just commenting on what prompted Flayra to change stuff from 1.0X to 2.0. On that note though, I think games are decided much more quickly in 2.0X and beta (not too much surprise there - the pace is changed). Much too quickly in my opinion, and there's generally a very slim chance to recover.
Whereas 1.04 if marines took too long to end the game, aliens had a chance to recover (faulty TF w/ turrets, sneaking second hive, etc) or the marines could recover. Etc.
I don't know where I'm going. I guess I just missed the 1.0X days where the attitude was different and marines/aliens fought hard til the last minute (Marine last stand, etc). I don't see much of that anymore, and people quitting 1/2 way.
Also, one big part of the onos and fade power was the mystique (and fear) they had back then. At the time it was "Oh @*#&, they have a fade. If we dont get that 2nd hive down asap, we're all screwed." The marines would then go out and suicidally rush the hive.
Onos were just the nail in the coffin. They were pretty much there only to tell the marines that the game was over in a few moments.
Now, its just "Oh, look. An onos. Lets kill it and put it out 80 res"
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
its...all..so ... so ... true!.. oh god *weep* i remember good old 1.04... oh god.... i remember my first game, on eclipse, *choke* i was aliens because the aliens were so different from anything ive played before... i was hiding on the roof/vent at horseshoe with another skulk, we could hear the marines coming, and we looked at each other... i could feel it... i knew what i had to do, i picked up on the nuance of "ambush" immidiatly, my heart was racing they got closer *wipes tear* it was a bloodbath, they didnt expect it, it was intense, bullets richocheting everywhere, god...
later that game i was running down a dark hall as gorge, god i was scared i wasnt sure where i was, i was all alone i was hiding behind some ocs... god it was all about territory back then, "this is the alien side, no marines over here, its relativly safe, there are ocs, its fine... but...maybe a rambo?" jesus... it was good.... so good.... i miss the "territory" feel of it, god... 1.04 was beautiful.. albiet flawed with jetpacks.... and it was so very hard to get 3 hives, so the onos definatly was the end-game <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2.01 brought with it nessecary fixes, some hitbox coding, skulk-orientation issues <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> *sigh* it was very good, it was sound, we could have stopped there, i think we should have stopped there... because grenades? give me a break, dont even let the marines know with a fancy "HEY! look! youve got grenades now! use them againts groups of aliens, or maybe to clear out a doorway!" cl_autohelp needs an update fellahs. sometimes i wonder what 1.04 with all the current bug-fixes would be like? hmmmm... take 1.04.... fix the bugs.... and leave out all the anoying things, like combat <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> ... well, a man can dream.
<!--QuoteBegin-NeonSpyder+Apr 28 2004, 03:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NeonSpyder @ Apr 28 2004, 03:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sometimes i wonder what 1.04 with all the current bug-fixes would be like? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 3.0 isn't all that different from 1.04 on the alien side. Skulks are still weak (although 1.04's insane carapace made up for that), fades are still very strong, DC-MC-SC is still set in stone. 3.0's better in that a two-hive lockdown doesn't mean a tedious 40 minute wait for the marines to move towards the final hive and win the game. And, of course, the superjetpack is gone as well.
I'm not sure why most people seem to have such a rosy view of 1.04. It was good for its time, but 2.01 is much more enjoyable.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Apr 28 2004, 04:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Apr 28 2004, 04:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not sure why most people seem to have such a rosy view of 1.04. It was good for its time, but 2.01 is much more enjoyable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it's because of the feel of the game. Where aliens were focus as a massive force from entering certain areas (aka, mess hall in ns_nancy) with one gorge running around to cap nodes and claim territory.
Sure, most of the tactics are similar, but you don't get that feel for it anymore. Aliens don't have time to put up WoL anymore, but disperse a few o chambers on key locations. And a group of marines just tear through those defenses. And marine defenses... while good with electric nodes and TFs... they go down fast with onos and fades. It's more dynamic, yes, but... there's really a lot of instablity on the map. Too much if you ask me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3.0's better in that a two-hive lockdown doesn't mean a tedious 40 minute wait for the marines to move towards the final hive and win the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't NS 3.0 usually longer to finish the game? And usually more demoralizing?
In 1.0X aliens had a chance since TFs weren't that powerful. While the marines could secure those places, get res nodes, they increase the chance of a sneaking a hive and/or massive skulk rush on PG/TF. Basically marines with lmg/hmg were in the way of sneaking up a hive.
In 3.0, marines would secure a hive but electrify res nodes and TF. Then they'll deprive res nodes to eliminate chance of aliens to recover. Then they'll pass out equipment in case they got fade/onos/lerks. Then with their equipment they'll slowly march to their hive, taking out res nodes and electrifying all the way.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Apr 28 2004, 09:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Apr 28 2004, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not sure why most people seem to have such a rosy view of 1.04. It was good for its time, but 2.01 is much more enjoyable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I always hated 1.04 and almost left NS because of it.
It didn't work and the marines always seemed to get stuck in the "Hive 2 Acid Rocket Bombardment" which really was not fun. At all.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> This is ironic! People say the game was at it's best at 1.0x and that the new 3.0 betas suck... AND THEY CALL THIS GAME "Natural-Selection"!?!?! So, it seems that a weaker offspring has replaced a stronger one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
How can you say 1.04 was the best, ARGH. It was soo marine biased, and there was only about 3 variations of things to do to win, JP HMG rush, 2 hive lockdown (for marines) and get 2nd hive + DCs asap.... that was all.
And as for the when aliens have onos, it always meant you lose... how fun is that... knowing you dont have a chance, at least now a good onos can win a game just as easily as marines can kill it. At least now there are more variations of things to do, and its not completly marine biased. Im not saying its perfect but its better, and once the whole gameplay is sorted, fix the other minor bugs and neaten up the edges, it will be great.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Apr 28 2004, 04:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Apr 28 2004, 04:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3.0 isn't all that different from 1.04 on the alien side. Skulks are still weak (although 1.04's insane carapace made up for that), fades are still very strong, DC-MC-SC is still set in stone. 3.0's better in that a two-hive lockdown doesn't mean a tedious 40 minute wait for the marines to move towards the final hive and win the game. And, of course, the superjetpack is gone as well.
I'm not sure why most people seem to have such a rosy view of 1.04. It was good for its time, but 2.01 is much more enjoyable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are missing one major difference between 1.0x and NS's beyond that. The unchaining of evolutions from hives, and removing the gorge improved res flow. These two changes took the once awesome alien teamplay, threw it on the ground, stomped on it, burned it, and peed on it to take out the fire. Yes, the hive importance was making things hard on the aliens, but people learned to work together. By the 1.04, I have never seen an alien team that cannot stand up to an early jp/hmger or 2hive lockdowns (I'll give you that a squad size jp/hmg rush was very devastating, but not nigh invincible).
On the flipside, there has been no major change (we're talking only classic here) between 3.0's and 2.0's. Nothing to the magnitude of what happened 1.0-2.0.
morphz: the onos is a SIGN of a loss. The onos doesnt do the winning, by the time it shows up, the game has already been won. Think ultralisk in StarCraft.
Comments
No, seriously; was v1.04 that much more fun? Myself, I could had deleted the whole damn game when jet-pack rushes made short work of the last hive for the Nth time.
No, seriously; was v1.04 that much more fun? Myself, I could had deleted the whole damn game when jet-pack rushes made short work of the last hive for the Nth time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I think it got boring towards the end because it got routine: protect gorge, get second hive (maybe third hive concurrently), get fades, win. Oh, and prevent marines doing jp rushes. But jp rushes were reasonably able to be countered (gorges had web ability 2nd hive, if not 2nd hive, get rid of res towers to reduce ability to pass out jps). The only map that I can remember that was famed for jp rushes was ns_nancy, and the recent changes of the vents in the hive (except for port hive) makes it more possible for the aliens to defend.
What's more sillier is when you have a game where a JP pushes a HA/hmg into the vent to attack the hive...
What's more sillier is when you have a game where a JP pushes a HA/hmg into the vent to attack the hive... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I've seen the math, and the problem was that marines were able to get jetpacks and head out BEFORE it was MATHEMATICALLY POSSIBLE for the aliens to get the 2nd hive. Well before, if I recall correctly. In order to win vs. a JP rush, you had to be able to take down the jetpackers AS A SKULK or else put OCs in the hive and protect them, meaning you aren't putting down more resource towers meaning that 2nd hive isn't comming for a while and in the meantime the resource flow on the marine side is such that waves of JPers are fast and frequent.
It was one big slippery slope. On the other hand, if the marines DIDN'T jp rush, then the marines had no chance at all, because once the alien team was able to fully fade, there was NOTHING that they could do about it.
Games where marines JP rushed had one node taken for the marines, and either one or no nodes taken for the aliens. Games where marines didn't jp rush had all nodes taken by aliens. Invariably. And taking out a node actually didn't matter all that much... resources weren't all that important-- hives were. Hives were so crucial that another tactic that ocassionally worked was the 2 hive lockdown...
One of 2.0's primary purposes was to de-emphasize hives and make nodes more valuble, in order to make the battle be spread across the entire map instead of JUST at 4 locations: the three hives and marine start. Or the double res location IF and ONLY IF the marines relocated there. That was it.
I honestly don't miss 1.0x at all. It was very unbalanced... if the marines had a mediocrely competant commander and also had at least 1 player getting 100fps (jp was tied to fps, if you recall! My jetpack hardly gets me off the ground while theirs let them sit on the ceiling all game!) the aliens COULD NOT WIN. On servers that didn't have a competant commander able to do the jp rush, and there were many, marines almost NEVER won. I saw the statistics... 70% or more pub games were won by aliens.
So you get a game that is dependant on ONE VARIABLE. That's really boring. Wasn't much fun at all.
I think that 2.01 was the best and most balanced version of the game so far. Now THOSE were some fun ones... very fond memories there.
1.00 was the worst and least balanced version of the game. But then, no one can dispute that. Marines with infinite resources...
Lerk spike would be nice to have again but would be **** against electrified tf. It would go down too fast <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Say that again to the legendary 3hr+ battles that occured <i>frequently</i>.
Ill say again what Ive said many times. By 1.04, 2 hive lockdowns were simply not an option for the marines. Aliens have became really adapt to taking them down.
Another thing with the beta, my microphone has gone all fuzzy and very laggy, about 6/7 people i know also have the same problem, so it seems that the microphone program has been almost completely busted up.
Mic chat is what im mainly about in these kinda games too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
As for beta 5, i dont want it.
old ns was all about long battles for every room which you simply dont get now beacuse sieges are so easy to setup and aliens cant atack them now because fades cant shoot them, lerks cant shoot them either and skulks are too weak to get to them if they have turrets and are electrified.
ns has now become a game about dominating the resnodes and electrifying them, this makes it almost impossible or aleast seriousley impratical for aliens to destroy them as they cant shoot them anymore or waste res building ocs around them. ns is also more about the individual onos or fade and not the whole team beacuse so much reliance is put on these ppl not to die and so waste the preciuose res.
anyway thats my thoughts , not really well thoughtout or probabley well spelled but thats what i think. old ns was more about team and strategie aswell as TEAMWORK unlike todays ns (which i still love <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've yet to hear a good thing about beta 4..
Exer, see the bast threads <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Also, the 'rine buildings on slope is a biggie.
I've yet to hear a good thing about beta 4.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have one good thing to say about it, ... The bug fixes,
The rest ... well let just say I think it should have just been bug fixes, Some of the other thing done where just a little too much (one spawn at a time in combat + slow xp gain for aliens) I think what we realy need in combat, is a few more lvls. Ther main reasion i like the classic and can't stand the combat for other then aim training, Is that once you take somthing you can't undo it. In Classic You can get lvl 3 Armor and weapons with Ha or Jp Any weapon Com spam cat. packs Scan, welder ect all at once. Also I think that the aliens have been mod. for someting like this to happen, not to run around with lvl 2 armor and lvl 2 weapons In combat i feel too limited by the fact once you take something it for the rest of the round, and you can't get all the the upgrades. I think what they needed to do was make it so that you have to be at least this lvl to get HA ot JP or Focis. say 6.
I've yet to hear a good thing about beta 4.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look up the 2.01c beta release thread in the Public Beta forum. Then weep for humanity.
edit for clarification: I say weep because of the <i>sickening</i> amount of complaints.
work=random(100-last_beta_days_out)
if(work==0){
post
}
therefore the day after a release you would only have a 1% chance of spamming the forums with your stupid opinion.
I don't think long games where the issue. I think it's when long games are allready decided early on but do not end as so very very often was the case in 1.04 that caused flayra to try and make rounds shorter. Strip away the waste of time and keep the action and uncertainty.
Its not useless, if you use it correctly.
btw: I suck as onos. Lerks and Skulks = My favorite! Even shotgun marines
no match for <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Before they can <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> they end up as lunch for skulk.
I don't think long games where the issue. I think it's when long games are allready decided early on but do not end as so very very often was the case in 1.04 that caused flayra to try and make rounds shorter. Strip away the waste of time and keep the action and uncertainty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Strip the waste of time and keep the uncertainity (and action)? *rereads again* Ok, you're just commenting on what prompted Flayra to change stuff from 1.0X to 2.0. On that note though, I think games are decided much more quickly in 2.0X and beta (not too much surprise there - the pace is changed). Much too quickly in my opinion, and there's generally a very slim chance to recover.
Whereas 1.04 if marines took too long to end the game, aliens had a chance to recover (faulty TF w/ turrets, sneaking second hive, etc) or the marines could recover. Etc.
I don't know where I'm going. I guess I just missed the 1.0X days where the attitude was different and marines/aliens fought hard til the last minute (Marine last stand, etc). I don't see much of that anymore, and people quitting 1/2 way.
Onos were just the nail in the coffin. They were pretty much there only to tell the marines that the game was over in a few moments.
Now, its just "Oh, look. An onos. Lets kill it and put it out 80 res"
later that game i was running down a dark hall as gorge, god i was scared i wasnt sure where i was, i was all alone i was hiding behind some ocs... god it was all about territory back then, "this is the alien side, no marines over here, its relativly safe, there are ocs, its fine... but...maybe a rambo?" jesus... it was good.... so good.... i miss the "territory" feel of it, god... 1.04 was beautiful.. albiet flawed with jetpacks.... and it was so very hard to get 3 hives, so the onos definatly was the end-game <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2.01 brought with it nessecary fixes, some hitbox coding, skulk-orientation issues <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> *sigh* it was very good, it was sound, we could have stopped there, i think we should have stopped there... because grenades? give me a break, dont even let the marines know with a fancy "HEY! look! youve got grenades now! use them againts groups of aliens, or maybe to clear out a doorway!" cl_autohelp needs an update fellahs. sometimes i wonder what 1.04 with all the current bug-fixes would be like? hmmmm... take 1.04.... fix the bugs.... and leave out all the anoying things, like combat <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> ... well, a man can dream.
3.0 isn't all that different from 1.04 on the alien side. Skulks are still weak (although 1.04's insane carapace made up for that), fades are still very strong, DC-MC-SC is still set in stone. 3.0's better in that a two-hive lockdown doesn't mean a tedious 40 minute wait for the marines to move towards the final hive and win the game. And, of course, the superjetpack is gone as well.
I'm not sure why most people seem to have such a rosy view of 1.04. It was good for its time, but 2.01 is much more enjoyable.
I think it's because of the feel of the game. Where aliens were focus as a massive force from entering certain areas (aka, mess hall in ns_nancy) with one gorge running around to cap nodes and claim territory.
Sure, most of the tactics are similar, but you don't get that feel for it anymore. Aliens don't have time to put up WoL anymore, but disperse a few o chambers on key locations. And a group of marines just tear through those defenses. And marine defenses... while good with electric nodes and TFs... they go down fast with onos and fades. It's more dynamic, yes, but... there's really a lot of instablity on the map. Too much if you ask me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3.0's better in that a two-hive lockdown doesn't mean a tedious 40 minute wait for the marines to move towards the final hive and win the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't NS 3.0 usually longer to finish the game? And usually more demoralizing?
In 1.0X aliens had a chance since TFs weren't that powerful. While the marines could secure those places, get res nodes, they increase the chance of a sneaking a hive and/or massive skulk rush on PG/TF. Basically marines with lmg/hmg were in the way of sneaking up a hive.
In 3.0, marines would secure a hive but electrify res nodes and TF. Then they'll deprive res nodes to eliminate chance of aliens to recover. Then they'll pass out equipment in case they got fade/onos/lerks. Then with their equipment they'll slowly march to their hive, taking out res nodes and electrifying all the way.
I always hated 1.04 and almost left NS because of it.
It didn't work and the marines always seemed to get stuck in the "Hive 2 Acid Rocket Bombardment" which really was not fun. At all.
This is ironic! People say the game was at it's best at 1.0x and that the new 3.0 betas suck... AND THEY CALL THIS GAME "Natural-Selection"!?!?! So, it seems that a weaker offspring has replaced a stronger one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yay! Darwin was wrong!!!
How can you say 1.04 was the best, ARGH. It was soo marine biased, and there was only about 3 variations of things to do to win, JP HMG rush, 2 hive lockdown (for marines) and get 2nd hive + DCs asap.... that was all.
And as for the when aliens have onos, it always meant you lose... how fun is that... knowing you dont have a chance, at least now a good onos can win a game just as easily as marines can kill it. At least now there are more variations of things to do, and its not completly marine biased. Im not saying its perfect but its better, and once the whole gameplay is sorted, fix the other minor bugs and neaten up the edges, it will be great.
I'm not sure why most people seem to have such a rosy view of 1.04. It was good for its time, but 2.01 is much more enjoyable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are missing one major difference between 1.0x and NS's beyond that. The unchaining of evolutions from hives, and removing the gorge improved res flow. These two changes took the once awesome alien teamplay, threw it on the ground, stomped on it, burned it, and peed on it to take out the fire. Yes, the hive importance was making things hard on the aliens, but people learned to work together. By the 1.04, I have never seen an alien team that cannot stand up to an early jp/hmger or 2hive lockdowns (I'll give you that a squad size jp/hmg rush was very devastating, but not nigh invincible).
On the flipside, there has been no major change (we're talking only classic here) between 3.0's and 2.0's. Nothing to the magnitude of what happened 1.0-2.0.
morphz: the onos is a SIGN of a loss. The onos doesnt do the winning, by the time it shows up, the game has already been won. Think ultralisk in StarCraft.