Who Thinks Sg And Gl And Hmg Should Cost 2?

ktimekillerktimekiller Join Date: 2003-02-25 Member: 13958Members
i do, sence focus has been increased to 2 points i think that sg is same as focus and should also cost 2, i also think with gl and hmg, once u reach lvl 3 u can already get sg with dmg upgrade! and at lvl 5 u can get hmg! thats way unfair. if focus has been nerfed i think sg gl and hmg should also be nerfed, but i think everything is fine in ns! what do u guys think about sg gl and hmg?
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Comments

  • lochnesslochness Join Date: 2002-12-13 Member: 10753Members
    3 marine levels will get you a HMG. 3 alien levels will get you leap+focus. a good skulk can win that easily. its fine
  • ktimekillerktimekiller Join Date: 2003-02-25 Member: 13958Members
    but think, one full clip of hmg=onos dead, if u dont miss <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • HexenHexen Join Date: 2003-01-16 Member: 12367Members
    Pft, as if you'd ever miss an onos. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    ya, 1 hmg clip to kill an onos IN THEORY. in the game, it's never like that unless the onos is afk. it will move around, there will be other aliens/structures/marines in the way, and in some point it will come for you, most likely when you're halfway through the clip. and it will then kill you, in 2-3 gores. of course this is not always the case, but if the onos has any sense at all it won't die to one marine.
  • WitherWither A Bugged Life Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11513Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    As lochness said, they an hmg already costs 3 levels.

    It's fine.
  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    Lets just leave combat the way it is for now. Maybe 2 points gl... ehh nvm
  • sawcesawce Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10787Members
    In my opinion, HMG should be a prereq for GL. (Damage 1->SG->HMG->GL). :/
  • RedcapRedcap Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14457Members
    Eh, part of me thinks that 2 for the GL, or making the HMG a prerequisite for it is a good idea. But the rest of me knows that the only reason I think that is that I'm sick of nade spamming.
  • GeronimoGeronimo Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11056Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-ktimekiller+May 6 2004, 11:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ktimekiller @ May 6 2004, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i do, sence focus has been increased to 2 points i think that sg is same as focus and should also cost 2, i also think with gl and hmg, once u reach lvl 3 u can already get sg with dmg upgrade! and at lvl 5 u can get hmg! thats way unfair. if focus has been nerfed i think sg gl and hmg should also be nerfed, but i think everything is fine in ns! what do u guys think about sg gl and hmg? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lets see how similar they really are:

    Focus:
    Damage increased to 200%
    Attack speed decreased to 50%
    Damage over time still 100%

    Why is focus good?
    Because it kills with the first bite, leaving no room for a possible doging, or in some cases flying away by the marine.

    Now for arguments sake lets say bite does 100 dmg and a skulk bites once every second
    Marines have 200 effective health at lvl 0, and 220 at lvl 1

    For a focused skulk to kill a lvl 0 marine, it takes two bites, which means 4 seconds.
    For a non focused one it takes three bites, but only three seconds.

    I rest my case.
  • rknZrknZ Join Date: 2003-10-23 Member: 21885Members
    Yeh its not like armour wears down or anything....
  • Norml_E_HighNorml_E_High Join Date: 2003-03-30 Member: 15055Members
    Only if they untether shotgun from weapons 1. Which would basically be the same thing anyway.
  • GeronimoGeronimo Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11056Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sm|o||o|th+May 7 2004, 05:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sm|o||o|th @ May 7 2004, 05:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeh its not like armour wears down or anything.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I said lvl 1 armour > focus

    Which means focus is actually worse than not after lvl 1 armour. Plus, if 1 marine > 1 Alien, they have an advantage
  • XentorXentor Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5877Members
    Ah, but focus is only worse after armor 1, if you're sitting next to the marine, biting as fast as you can. I think it really depends on your playing style. I prefer to zip in and get the first bite, then zip away before he can locate the attack. Rinse, repeat. This goes for Lerk also. If a lerk flies in and just sits in the middle of a group of marines, he's dead. You do strafing runs, biting the tops of their heads or their sides as you fly past, so all that matters is the number of bites, not the total time with constant attacking.

    (Sorry if this runs on a bit, but I'm just putting in a quick post before I run off to work)
  • ChezChez Join Date: 2004-01-05 Member: 25074Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-lochness+May 7 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lochness @ May 7 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3 marine levels will get you a HMG. 3 alien levels will get you leap+focus. a good skulk can win that easily. its fine <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    agreed
  • Kenichi-SNKKenichi-SNK Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24617Members
    I believe:

    Shotgun: 1
    HMG:1
    GL:2

    would be fair.
  • MistenTHMistenTH Join Date: 2003-01-01 Member: 11706Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    GL only owns skulks and lerks though. When CO was a non-stop fragfest, GL didn't matter since almost everyone was an onos or fade.

    With the time limit, most people will be at the skulk form. I'd rather GL be tethered to weapons2 rather than be made 2 points since it's already such a specialised weapon.
  • steamedhamssteamedhams Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10333Members, Constellation
    just to clarify, focus does 200 percent damage and has 300 percent slower rate of fire

    (1 focused bite for every 3 regular bites)
  • Roger_DodgerRoger_Dodger Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
    Personally i think its fine as is, the only thing i'd like to see changed is being able to achieve 10 levels rather than the 9 as it is now. eg: start as level 0 rine or skulk.

    Just add a bit more fun IMHO.

    - RD
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Sorry Geronimo but your logic is flawed because it ignores the fact that the first bite has no delay. In that example, the second focus bite would come in 2 seconds at approximately the same time as the third bite. Then you take into account that it's easier to only have to line up two bites, and Focus is still better.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    Upping the cost would be a great way for pubs to whine even more about marines being to weak.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Lemme just ask this: if acid rocket was made more spammy and less threatening, so it could be more fun to use, why is the GL less spammy and much more threatening?
    Shouldn't it be purely anti-building? Like, make it do 4x to buildings, but half the current damage to lifeforms...
    At least that would eliminate "GL frustration", which could only ever be a good thing in combat.
  • ktimekillerktimekiller Join Date: 2003-02-25 Member: 13958Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->GL only owns skulks and lerks though. When CO was a non-stop fragfest, GL didn't matter since almost everyone was an onos or fade.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    but the thing is, in co people like to be super skulk or super lerk <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    and i think sg should cost 2 and hmg and gl should cost same, i think gl needs to be a building destroyer not a anti personel. and onos will die if 2 marines with hmg is faceing him, 30 secs,,, ur dead
  • Jared101Jared101 Join Date: 2004-02-22 Member: 26804Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-ktimekiller+May 6 2004, 11:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ktimekiller @ May 6 2004, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sence focus has been increased to 2 points i think that sg is same as focus and should also cost 2, i also think with gl and hmg, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    its called damage 1?
  • Act_ChillAct_Chill Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15816Members
    edited May 2004
    Having several gls will make the game last longer but wont win the game. Gls must travel with others and is easy to kill. Against onos they do less than hmgs in the same amount of time.

    Leap focus owns all especially since marines go for resupply and weapon upgrades a lot more and dont worry about armor as much.
  • CutterJoeCutterJoe Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11594Members, Constellation
    edited May 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-ktimekiller+May 7 2004, 12:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ktimekiller @ May 7 2004, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i do, sence focus has been increased to 2 points i think that sg is same as focus and should also cost 2, i also think with gl and hmg, once u reach lvl 3 u can already get sg with dmg upgrade! and at lvl 5 u can get hmg! thats way unfair. if focus has been nerfed i think sg gl and hmg should also be nerfed, but i think everything is fine in ns! what do u guys think about sg gl and hmg? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This comming from someone who most likely plays exclusively alien seeing as they win alot of co games Ive played.

    edit: Not a flame just an observation.

    Also you have to have damage lvl 1, as someone said, before you can get sg. So theres your 2 points.
  • DestroyerDestroyer Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24611Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Geronimo+May 7 2004, 08:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ May 7 2004, 08:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ktimekiller+May 6 2004, 11:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ktimekiller @ May 6 2004, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i do, sence focus has been increased to 2 points i think that sg is same as focus and should also cost 2, i also think with gl and hmg, once u reach lvl 3 u can already get sg with dmg upgrade! and at lvl 5 u can get hmg! thats way unfair. if focus has been nerfed i think sg gl and hmg should also be nerfed, but i think everything is fine in ns! what do u guys think about sg gl and hmg? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lets see how similar they really are:

    Focus:
    Damage increased to 200%
    Attack speed decreased to 50%
    Damage over time still 100%

    Why is focus good?
    Because it kills with the first bite, leaving no room for a possible doging, or in some cases flying away by the marine.

    Now for arguments sake lets say bite does 100 dmg and a skulk bites once every second
    Marines have 200 effective health at lvl 0, and 220 at lvl 1

    For a focused skulk to kill a lvl 0 marine, it takes two bites, which means 4 seconds.
    For a non focused one it takes three bites, but only three seconds.

    I rest my case. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    half of your values are wrong....
    please get you values right and you will see that focus still will kill a lvl1 armor in the same or less time that without focus.
  • e_Nadagaste_Nadagast Join Date: 2003-10-30 Member: 22149Members
    Or just remove the GL? On a 10v10 Combat pub yesterday, I was on marines and the map was faceoff, and literally at least 6 people on our team had GLs... the number might have been 7 or 8 but who cares? My screen never stopped shaking and we lost because when they got fades/onos, everyone with GLs couldn't do anything but add to the spawn queue.

    REMOVE IT.

    Oh and Steamed are you sure that its 300% the delay between attacks?
  • UnknownUnknown Join Date: 1970-01-01 Member:
    oh, just thought id add. focus wasn't "nerfed" it cost's 2 pts *because of how powerfull it was. the rate of fire to dmg ratio for the hmg is way less then focus for say, not that focus is a gun... someone pointed out the actual dmg points so just look at that. if the hmg was to cost more points, OR do less damage it would be unfair.
  • Al_KaholicAl_Kaholic Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25821Members, Constellation
    I too believe that the HMG should be a prerequisite to the GL. Not only would it make the GL effectively cost 2 points when compared to now (Damage lvl 1>Shotgun>HMG>GL), it would give people more insentive to simply stay with their HMG, which is a much better-suited weapon for Combat anyhow. The main problem I see with GLs in Combat is the ability for a single JPer with a GL and Resupply can solo a hive while at the same time wiping out the Skulks and Gorges frantically trying to play the defensive (and the occasional lousy Lerk). Or like Nadagast said, a match can turn one-sided if too many people decide to spam GLs.
  • curlydavecurlydave Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21855Members
    No, the idea of raising the sg to 2 points is a bad idea. Once the aliens get a fade, the marines are effectively screwed. Forget about the hive at all, let alone in 10 minutes.

    And I don't understand what people's problems with the gl are. It's incredibly easy to take a gler down. They're basically defenseless. I don't see why people complain about them being overpowered. I'd much rather go against a GL-wielding team than an hmg or sg wielding one. Glers are really easy to rip through after dodging their shots.
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