Weapon Balances

PlasmaPlasma Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The Gorge spit and the fade acid rocket both deal the same amount (25 I think) of damage.

Should the fade's acid rocket be more powerful?

Comments

  • fyremp3fyremp3 Join Date: 2004-04-30 Member: 28331Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Fade's Acid Rocket fires just as fast but takes 1/4th the adrenaline, so, no, they're just fine, it used to do 50 and cost twice the adren but they made it lower to make it funner to use.
  • TyrNemesisTyrNemesis trigger_CUT! Join Date: 2003-09-17 Member: 20942Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    <span style='color:green'>phased</span> to somewhere else. I don't know where, but it's most certainly not a bug report, so it goes away.
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Members, NS1 Playtester
    Alright, one more time for those of us that missed it the first FIFTY times. If you have a weapon that can fire twice a second and does 50 damage and takes x amount of adren to fire, then you change it to a weapon that still fires twice a second and does 25 damage and takes x/2 adren to fire you have WEAKENED that weapon. Where it did 100 dmg/sec before, it now does 50 dmg/sec. To make it equal, the rate of fire would have had to have been doubled. Everyone on the same page now? Good. Discuss.
  • MarrMarr Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10582Members
    I'm of the opinion that hive 3 weapons should really hurt. The current acid rocket should either:

    -do more damage
    -cost less energy
    -have a greater area of effect
    -knock marines around more

    it costs 2 points in combat and requires all 3 hives in classic. clearly it needs more punch.
  • a_civiliana_civilian Likes seeing numbers Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
    The new acid rocket is, in my opinion, much less fun than the old one. With its low rate of fire and damage, it must be spammed to be of any use. Standing around and spamming acid rockets is much less fun than actually using them in conjunction with the Fade's other abilities.
  • DragonMechDragonMech Join Date: 2003-09-19 Member: 21023Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+May 5 2004, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ May 5 2004, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The new acid rocket is, in my opinion, much less fun than the old one. With its low rate of fire and damage, it must be spammed to be of any use. Standing around and spamming acid rockets is much less fun than actually using them in conjunction with the Fade's other abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, the old AR was better. A much higher damage (75), slower RoF, triple energy cost, and a faster projectile would be best IMO.
  • NGENGE Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22443Members
    It was more "fun" when you had to aim them, not spam them.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yep. Firing acid rockets accurately is more fun than just spamming pathetically weak projectiles. More importantly, as Bob said, the Acid Rocket change is simply a nerf. It was changed to do the same damage per energy(half damage, half cost), <u>but its damage over time was halved</u> because the damage was halved and the refire rate remained the same. Even if the damage over time was the same, more powerful projectiles are still better for much the same reason Focus is better than normal attacks... I'm not sure if Flayra really didn't see that or if he actually meant to nerf acid rockets that much. Either way, they're pathetically weak now and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks otherwise.

    Acid rocket is a hive 3 weapon and it costs 2 points in Combat(that leaves you with 3 upgrades at L10, if you get there). It should be extremely powerful in both cases. It should be either:

    a.) Same energy cost and refire rate so it's still fun(whatever that means), increased damage(at least 50).

    b.) Old energy costs, higher damage then before(75, ideally)

    There's just no reason for a hive 3 weapon to be weak in either Classic or Combat anymore. This applies to Primal Scream and Charge as well, but Acid Rocket is by far the weakest ability in the game except Spit(and Spit is more useful for its species).
  • MintmanMintman Join Date: 2003-05-30 Member: 16866Members
    I think they should now take the opportunity to buff acid rocket and charge. I think the only thing keeping them at their current, crappy level of power is combat, where they now cost two points. No-one would be bothered if hive 3 aliens totally owned the marines in classic, it takes domination on the alien's part to gain 3 hives.

    Charge could be made super powerful once more as an onos in combat could only have one non-hive upgrade if it wanted charge. Also you'd really have to chose between focus and acid rocket as a fade so you don't hurt your regular abilities too much.

    Xeno's not too bad currently (could do with blast damage if it doesn't have it), web is good and primal scream could maybe do with a longer duration or wider area of effect.

    (Posted again here as it's relevant here too)
  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
    Acid rocket was godly back in 1.04. I wouldn't mind having acid rocket brought back to 1.04 levels, but then, Fade blink wasn't as godly in the past either...
  • mousiehamstermousiehamster Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14534Members
    They should change it so that it ignores armor. This way they'll fight HA's nicely. They ought to reduce fire rate if this was implemented tho.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-fyre.mp3+May 5 2004, 12:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fyre.mp3 @ May 5 2004, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fade's Acid Rocket fires just as fast but takes 1/4th the adrenaline, so, no, they're just fine, it used to do 50 and cost twice the adren but they made it lower to make it funner to use. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Uh, hive 3 weapons are supposed to be devastating, not a splash of orange juice in the face
  • NGENGE Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22443Members
  • d0omied0omie Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13877Members
    Acid rocket + primal scream is OK, that actually seems usefull. Just double the AR firerate or double the damage or something similar. Classic needs it being increased as its one of the few ways of whittling down a HUGE farm, needed to speed up end game.

    Combat won't be affected too much as its now 2 points and no-one will get it. Even if it did its old (nerfed) 2.01 damage it still wouldn't be worth carap and cele.
  • Seph_KimaraSeph_Kimara Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19359Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+May 7 2004, 11:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ May 7 2004, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MEH EYES <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ZE GOGGLES DO NOTHING
  • thedraftthedraft Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2919Members
    The way acid rocket should work is decent damage for a direct hit (35-45) and the splash should do double damage to armor. As has been said many, many times, the aliens are not supposed to have strong projectiles; their speciality is melee. Making acid rocket the best counter to upgraded armor would have a lot of benefits in the end game. It would make turtling incredibly hard, since even heavies would have their armor whittled away very quickly, making them short work for suicide skulks, blinking fades or goring/stomping onos.
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Members, NS1 Playtester
    2.01 style Acid Rocket + Blast damage = fix for boring end game marine turtling. Slow but very powerful acid rockets could make short work of turret farms in no time. And give a good chance to get rid of the bacon machine or the arms lab as well. Either way, a round can finish without marines playing alamo.
  • DerangedDeranged Join Date: 2004-04-07 Member: 27774Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+May 7 2004, 04:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ May 7 2004, 04:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fyre.mp3+May 5 2004, 12:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fyre.mp3 @ May 5 2004, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fade's Acid Rocket fires just as fast but takes 1/4th the adrenaline, so, no, they're just fine, it used to do 50 and cost twice the adren but they made it lower to make it funner to use. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Uh, hive 3 weapons are supposed to be devastating, not a splash of orange juice in the face <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    agreed...

    a.ir definetly needs a boost to be more useful..
  • niftyguyniftyguy Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22812Members
    I think were moving away from the ungodly powerful 3 hive weapons, xeno is good but not amazing considering the rate of fire. web is good but not so many can be layed and u pretty much need adren to use them alot in combat. primal scream i think is as effective as umbra but only slightly better, acid rocket don't do alot of damage but it can do damage u woun't normally be able to do cause of shotguns and what not, and charge isn't great damage wise and it takes alot of energy away that u could be goring or devouring with....

    so pretty much im saying, 3 hives isn't the end all weapons that they used to be, just a bonus or something to lock in the victory.
  • BuggyBuggy Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22400Members, Constellation
    yep acid rockets are pathetic now, they used to be good base-breakers but now...?
    Boost em!
  • thedraftthedraft Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2919Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-niftyguy+May 7 2004, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niftyguy @ May 7 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think were moving away from the ungodly powerful 3 hive weapons, xeno is good but not amazing considering the rate of fire. web is good but not so many can be layed and u pretty much need adren to use them alot in combat. primal scream i think is as effective as umbra but only slightly better, acid rocket don't do alot of damage but it can do damage u woun't normally be able to do cause of shotguns and what not, and charge isn't great damage wise and it takes alot of energy away that u could be goring or devouring with....

    so pretty much im saying, 3 hives isn't the end all weapons that they used to be, just a bonus or something to lock in the victory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think you're missing the point. If the aliens have hive 3 up, they've basically won the game. They most likely control the map, and all the marines have been pushed back into marine start. At this point, it's only a question of how long it takes for the aliens to push in there and kill everyone. That's why I think hive 3 should unlock devastating anti base weaponry. Xeno and Primal are already pretty good, and if Acid Rocket did extra damage to armor and Charge was beefed up so that it destroyed buildings very quickly, the aliens would have a good cache of hive 3 weaponry.

    Think of it this way. The hive 3 weapons should be equal to an HA train comprised of the entire marine team. Currently, they're not even close.
  • fyremp3fyremp3 Join Date: 2004-04-30 Member: 28331Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+May 7 2004, 04:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ May 7 2004, 04:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    Uh, hive 3 weapons are supposed to be devastating, not a splash of orange juice in the face <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, but have you ever been hit in the face with orange juice? IT BURNS MAN, IT BURNS LIKE NO OTHER.

    Now, however much I agree with you, I think the damage should only be upped to 40 and the adren use doubled, so it can be spammed (not to the extent that it does now, but still spammed) but still does decent damage. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    any opinions? Now I would like to agree with super AR, it could completely devastate a marines rush on a hive (you know the sneaky **** that put a PG up under the hive and drop 123908123 shotguns) - They could be an allstar team in a rut and find their way out, a super AR could destroy that rush in 4-5 rockets, and even if the RoF was halved, that could still kill in 8-10 seconds, whereas the hive would go down in about 15 seconds. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sign In or Register to comment.