Quick Thought On Bunny Hopping

GoodpancakesGoodpancakes Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19322Members
Hmm so as it seems it is to stay in the game deliberatly for aliens, and I read somewhere that the marines have a fatigue level for it. It makes sense for aliens to an extent, but im thinking you might want to add a fatigue level for the Onos, bunny hopping + onos is a bit rediculous in my opinion. The thing has so much health its hard enough to kill it let alone if its 5 times faster then you are.

If im wrong about any of the factual details feel free to correct me, arguing about this nonsense in server just made me look like an idiot! WOOO!
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Comments

  • ExerExer Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13167Members
    I"ll second that, onos should not be able to bunny hop.

    As for too much health, I don't think so, they go down real fast with a lv3 shotgun or HMG.
  • ShockehShockeh If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Sadly (in my opinion only), the game has since been balanced <b>for</b> bunnyhopping, so removing it from even just the Onos would probably turn it into so much wasted resources.

    The debate about who & what should get it raged long & hard prior to the removal for marines, and the decision probably won't get reversed now.
  • napinapi Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Members, Constellation
    well, for what it's worth, there are very few maps and decent places in which an onos CAN bunny hop - 90% of the cielings are just too low
  • Paranoia2MBParanoia2MB Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7832Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-shanks+May 12 2004, 05:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ May 12 2004, 05:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well, for what it's worth, there are very few maps and decent places in which an onos CAN bunny hop - 90% of the cielings are just too low <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Took the words right out of my mind.
  • StoatBringerStoatBringer Join Date: 2003-06-09 Member: 17144Members, Constellation
    Personally, I reckon that onoses climbing ladders is even sillier! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    I mean, come on!
  • Roger_DodgerRoger_Dodger Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
    Try bhopping <u>properly</u> with an onos.

    It is bloody hard and next to useless, cielings block your movement, not to mention railings, stairs and ramps.

    Personally a bhopping onos isnt worth a cracker, most of the time in a bhoppable hallway the rines range advantage far outways any speed gain you build up.

    I am a half decent bhopper and im yet to find anywhere i can get an onos 5 times faster than its base speed where it is useful.

    Except maybe ns_lost MS but still thats just stupid.

    IMHO there is no problem here. Unless its one of those ugly massively open custom maps.

    - RD
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Removing Onos bunnyhopping is not worth the effort. As was said, it's much too difficult in 90% of rooms to be a serious issue. Personally I think we should pull bunnyhopping from aliens entirely and speed them up to compensate; it puts everyone on equal ground and prevents the game from being balanced around a rare and completely undocumented tactic.
  • CyndaneCyndane Join Date: 2003-11-15 Member: 22913Members
    No.. don't remove it.. after a year of playing I finally have it 1/2 way down.. kinda.. like.. 30% of the time. Teehee.. yes I am a slow learner at times.
  • MintmanMintman Join Date: 2003-05-30 Member: 16866Members
    As has been said it's nigh on impossible to bunny hop an onos anywhere on an official map. The places you can are often miles from usual combat areas anyway. The only area I can think of where it's possible AND useful is cargo hive on lost.
  • RueRue Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Members
    I'm kinda split on the idea of removing bunnyhoping for the kharaa. The only class that can really BH, lerks just fly onos can't normaly and fades blink.

    Speeding up skulks base speed and celerity may not be the best way to balance the game cause new players might find it even harder to kill them.
  • ExerExer Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13167Members
    If you want to take this a step further, onos should not be able to jump!

    Elephants/Rhino's/Hippos can't jump
  • Diablo_fxDiablo_fx Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Exer+May 12 2004, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer @ May 12 2004, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you want to take this a step further, onos should not be able to jump!

    Elephants/Rhino's/Hippos can't jump <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    these isn't any of mentioned they are space cows

    tbh

    gameplay > realism
  • Roger_DodgerRoger_Dodger Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Exer+May 12 2004, 11:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer @ May 12 2004, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you want to take this a step further, onos should not be able to jump!

    Elephants/Rhino's/Hippos can't jump <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If elephants/rhinos and hippos had originated on a planet where gravity wasnt as harsh is it not also possible that they would jump about then?

    Perhaps they choose not to?

    - RD

    ehehe frolicking hippos lol
  • SalvationSalvation Join Date: 2003-11-21 Member: 23300Members
  • InfraRedInfraRed Join Date: 2003-01-20 Member: 12508Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If im wrong about any of the factual details feel free to correct me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ok....

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5 times faster then you are<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    170% faster max, then you are halted back to stand start.
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members
    Bunnyhopping has been discussed to death any many different forums and threads.

    The long and the short of it is there is no point in discussing it.

    To remove Bhop would require huge efforts to rebalance the game. Considering that the people who actually make gameplay changes have more or less moved on from NS these kind of changes aren't likely.

    So regardless of any aspect of Bhop we cannot consider removing it until we have someone willing and able to rebalance the entire game.
  • napinapi Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->a rare and completely undocumented tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    are you serious?

    I know it isn't documented officially with NS, but saying it is "completely undocumented" is a blatent lie

    keyword : bunnyhopping
    google results: 2,800

    ... i myself have written at least 5 seperate tutorials for various different games, and i know of at least a dozen people who have also written some tutorials on it. it is perhaps THE most documented tactic in FPS gaming (primarily due to it's impact on Quake3)
  • SalvationSalvation Join Date: 2003-11-21 Member: 23300Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-shanks+May 12 2004, 01:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ May 12 2004, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->a rare and completely undocumented tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    are you serious?

    I know it isn't documented officially with NS, but saying it is "completely undocumented" is a blatent lie

    keyword : bunnyhopping
    google results: 2,800

    ... i myself have written at least 5 seperate tutorials for various different games, and i know of at least a dozen people who have also written some tutorials on it. it is perhaps THE most documented tactic in FPS gaming (primarily due to it's impact on Quake3) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    he was most likely kidding....

    omost looks like you took it for real <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • e_Nadagaste_Nadagast Join Date: 2003-10-30 Member: 22149Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Roger Dodger+May 12 2004, 06:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roger Dodger @ May 12 2004, 06:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am a half decent bhopper and im yet to find anywhere i can get an onos 5 times faster than its base speed where it is useful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There is nowhere in the game where you can get anywhere close to 5 times base speed as any lifeform... Your speed is reset to 170% every time you land.
  • GoodpancakesGoodpancakes Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19322Members
    Well I wasnt suggesting removing bhopping entirly and saying "REBALANCE THE GAME!" I was suggesting a fatigue limit on the Onos specifically, as there is on marine, or so I read. You all said well its near impossible to bhop with the Onos anyway, and most corridors are too small to accomplish this, and so on and so forth. So adding a fatigue limit to a tactic that is never used as an Onos would not effect game play. SO! why bother at all? what really is the issue here? I personally witnessed some hella good bhopping Onosing and it kicked our <explitive deleted>, I guess you could consider this a vendetta against some major butt kickage experienced. This issue I want you to consder is not Bunny hopping for kharra, or OMG ALIEns + Bh0P = oWn you N00b, or whatever other malicious replys you feel like adding. The question is should the <b>Onos</b> be able to bunny hop.

    this is just some good natured discussion on how to improve a game, considering its still in beta and still under development. I thought suggestions like these were welcome?
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    Only skulks should be able to bhop.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Goodpancakes+May 12 2004, 04:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Goodpancakes @ May 12 2004, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The question is should the <b>Onos</b> be able to bunny hop. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes.
  • KrezalyzKrezalyz Join Date: 2004-02-01 Member: 25898Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+May 12 2004, 05:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ May 12 2004, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only skulks should be able to bhop. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hey, don't forget the fatties! They deserve it too so they can run away from the evil knifing rines!

    But to the point, only skulks, gorges and onoses really do bhop. And those most likely to the skulks and gorges.. And if you didnt know, just by jumping forward as an alien you get a little speed boost (~350 for a skulk as 300 is the normal base speed, thought that might not help much <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
    And the basics of the bhop takes some like.. 10 min to 1 h to learn. And then you can easily get over 400 groundspeeds with a skulk. Well pr0s do get 500 but 400 is far better than 300. And incase someone did not know, if you really want to practice, put a localserver on to your own comp, sv_cheats 1 and cl_showspeed 1.
    And bind jump to mwheeldown. That does the trick.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2004
    A ducking onos is as tall as a standing marine and can comfortably bunnyhop in a lot of places in the official maps, pretty much anywhere where there are no really sharp corners. A bunnyhopping ducking onos must turn quite slow so it takes a bit of time to pick up speed and sharp corners are annoying but you will go no slower than a standing bunnyhopping onos(but you'll look twice as ludicrous).

    edit: Oh my, look at <a href='http://hem.bredband.net/soylent/temp/bouncy_onos.zip' target='_blank'><i>this</i></a> thing in 3rd person(sv_cheats 1, chase_active 1, playdemo <demofile>). This is heinously ugly...

    This is what I would expect to get in a real game since I just started recording without thinking out any particular good route to bunnyhop, (disclaimer not guaranteed to be free of embarassing misstakes(damn ladders) and bugs(damn you hera)). Onos base speed is 240, most of the time in those demos I'm around 300-350, a handy increase, in particularilly good places I saw the speed-o-meter go up to about 400 ish.(veil is the easiest map to be a freaky bouncing onos on IMO).
  • GoodpancakesGoodpancakes Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19322Members
    Veil is the specific map where it worked quite well.
  • elchinesetouristelchinesetourist Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17775Members
    <i>At the very least</i>, fix the aesthetics for onos bhopping. It is, needless to say, the essence of *gotry

    mods might take issue and I apologize, but truly, it is a visual atrocity, a traumatic experience, seeing that onos do its.. bhop
  • TheDestroyerTheDestroyer Tooobah Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18123Members, Constellation
    Has anyone actually bhopped with something besides skulk? All I ever do is bhop with skulks, the other aliens are just too much of a hassle. Shoot, fades got that new-fangled blink, and onos, as said before, never have the clearance.

    Shoot, keep bhopping, its seems logical that a creature like that would bunny hop. Skulks should bhop, just look at the third <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=skulk' target='_blank'>definition</a>, or just the first to words, "to evade." Bhopping can do that, evade the gunfire.

    Keep it, learn it, abuse it! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members
    Personally I don't believe any life form should be able to bhop. That said if a skulk can do it I don't see why an onos shouldn't be able to.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Onos can bunnyhop quite well if they duck, it's not that hard. Gorges are the easiest creatures to bunnyhop with of all, they are slow so it's hard to mess up, they can turn really quickly without slowing down, they have "low clearance", doesn't matter if you crouch or not. If you need to metabolize and your not getting enough time in the air with blink you can do one jump off bunnyhopping and metabolize before resuming blinking, a jump or 2 of bunnyhopping while comming out of blink and chasing a marine can be usefull to dodge some bullets and get you there faster.
  • SalvationSalvation Join Date: 2003-11-21 Member: 23300Members
    how many times are we ganna anwer the question... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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