Alien strategery
TypographicalError
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3693Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3693Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Or: how to keep humans from expanding?</div>Playing the game, I've found that it's rather imbalanced. Now whether this is the players in the game not knowing what to do, the developers not developing it with lag in mind, or some sort of resource bug that I've seen mentioned, I will not speculate, especially since one of the developers or playtesters will no doubt be asinine, flaming me and telling me what a n00b I am and how I should shut up and go away.
At any rate, here is a "balance" problem/question I've identified: marine acquisition of resource towers. The marines seem to be able to find all the resource towers very quickly (due to their commander, of course) and then build on them quickly (due to the fact that any marine can help build). This is besides the fact that marine builders (which is to say, everyone) are much more powerful than gorges and are able to defend themselves. So you have this party of, say, 3 or 4 marines roaming around, acquiring resource towers as fast as they can be put down.
This, of course, isn't the total problem. The aliens should be out taking care of these towers which are usually undefended save a turret or two (which seems a lot of resources so early, but I digress). The problem lies in the main point of alien strategy: aliens do not attack humans outright. A one-hive skulk is decently powerful against a marine or two, but not when they have the ability to see the skulk coming.
So the appropriate strategy is for the aliens to lie in wait or at least avoid contact with humans until they have the ability to destroy them outight with fade (you know, if blink worked) or onos. This leads to fairly unrestricted human growth, which leads to very dead aliens.
I think that this could probably be the underlying reason for many players' feelings that the aliens suck. They are simply screwed on resources and furthermore, the humans have an abundant amount. This might change if gorges start co-operating or if people knew the maps better, but marines will still have an advantage since teamwork is built in to the marine side and the commander automatically knows the map. Perhaps if resource nodes were represented on hive sight, or if the alien popup had decent dialog options this resource thing wouldn't be such an issue.
At any rate, given the current state of the game, is there any workaround to this for the aliens?
At any rate, here is a "balance" problem/question I've identified: marine acquisition of resource towers. The marines seem to be able to find all the resource towers very quickly (due to their commander, of course) and then build on them quickly (due to the fact that any marine can help build). This is besides the fact that marine builders (which is to say, everyone) are much more powerful than gorges and are able to defend themselves. So you have this party of, say, 3 or 4 marines roaming around, acquiring resource towers as fast as they can be put down.
This, of course, isn't the total problem. The aliens should be out taking care of these towers which are usually undefended save a turret or two (which seems a lot of resources so early, but I digress). The problem lies in the main point of alien strategy: aliens do not attack humans outright. A one-hive skulk is decently powerful against a marine or two, but not when they have the ability to see the skulk coming.
So the appropriate strategy is for the aliens to lie in wait or at least avoid contact with humans until they have the ability to destroy them outight with fade (you know, if blink worked) or onos. This leads to fairly unrestricted human growth, which leads to very dead aliens.
I think that this could probably be the underlying reason for many players' feelings that the aliens suck. They are simply screwed on resources and furthermore, the humans have an abundant amount. This might change if gorges start co-operating or if people knew the maps better, but marines will still have an advantage since teamwork is built in to the marine side and the commander automatically knows the map. Perhaps if resource nodes were represented on hive sight, or if the alien popup had decent dialog options this resource thing wouldn't be such an issue.
At any rate, given the current state of the game, is there any workaround to this for the aliens?
Comments
As the playtesters tested the game, the aliens got quicker and quicker, making marine shots seem impotent against their blurred figures. They upped rate of fire and damage to make the shots count and balance the teams.
Unfortunatly, everyone I have seen play aliens walks around with their hands in their pockets. I've watched fades <b>walk</b> into a room. I'll let someone else pick up this conversation as I have to go...
Perhaps. But it doesn't help that skulks, at least, move through humans, don't have any indicator that they're hitting, and get screwed over by lag. The time that it takes to kill someone increases, and then the marines' spray 'n pray wins.
Not that I'm faulting the playtesters for it, but it doesn't seem like the game was tested under lag.
At any rate, if they can attack humans head-on (which all the playtesters and developers, it seems, have agreed is a no-no) then the problem is finished. However, I don't think that skulks, roaming through the maps, trying to find resource towers, is conducive to said skulks living a happy, long life.
That says it all right there. That is the main reason it is so hard for aliens. There is nothing keeping them together. I would love to just play this game Marines vs. Marines.
Personally, I think as people get better at the game we'll see where the balance is.. but one thing that the game desparately, desparately needs is blood or pain sounds or something for the marines.. surely thats not hard to do.. but when playing as a Skulk, and the teeth come down, you cant see and you dont even know if you've hit. Most of the time you only know if you've been hurting someone if you have the Scent of Fear upgrade or they die.
A little "AAGGH!" when a marine gets hurt would go a long way.
One more point.. umbra umbra umbra. I had a great time today as a Lerk flapping around behind a Ono and two Fades, keeping them alive with umbra and filling rooms full of spores. I even gunned down two marines who were low on health, and chased a commander into a vent. It was fun.
In some ways the aliens need more teamwork, BECAUSE of the lack of a commander.
But maybe its easier for me because Im an experienced AvP player.
People will learn, just sit tight.
A well played skulk can ruin a marines day with the right upgrade at the start, its not to terribly difficult to sneak up on em if you have silence going from the get-go.
Nodes on the hivesite wouldnt solve anything. Sooner or later the alien players will learn the map and will know where all the nodes are and the quickest path to the hive spots. Personally im just starting to get it down myself, but its not so bad. Resource nodes are generally right near the hive locations, theres at least one. Hive locations DO show up on hivesite so thats half the battle right there.
The aliens abilities SEROIUSLY compliment each other. Take a lerk, onos, and a fade all making an assult. You can have the lerk ubra, making the onos about 10x as hard to kill, the fade can melee the holy hell out of anyone, thanks to primal scream from onos, and then you have a ranging steroidal bull running around killing whatever moves. If you really want to use teamwork, you can have one of the gorgs tag along to heal you up, or build some defensive towers at a rally point so they can heal between assults.
The key to victory on the alien side is communication, hives, and resources. Just talk to each other over voicecom, don't be shy, that will loose aliens the game.
In some ways the aliens need more teamwork, BECAUSE of the lack of a commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only saddening thing that is going on is the fact that EVERYBODY seems to be joining marines. Five marines on Two aliens causes a lack of interest and a /quit ensues (at least on my part, as I got tired of the subsequent connections of players ALL joining the marines side). There is no way that aliens can win when everybody goes to the
marines side.
There should be an automatic join thing that goes on instead of letting people pick the teams they are on. This would force people to have to work together and not get to be what they wanted. They will just have to deal with that fact, b/c it would be a wonderful balancing feature - an autojoin that the server automatically puts people on proper teams...
A lot of people tend to answer to aliens problems with get 4 or 5 upgraded (name your alien here) and go out an kill marines. The problem with this is that you need at least 2 hives + the resources to get any kind of 1/2 decent offense going. The problem arrises is that The humans know where the hives. They can storm in, kill the hive, and then plant 30 or so Turrets in the room.
Not only is this a problem, but there's a major lack of feedback from hitting someone. Sometimes I can chomp down at someones back, for 4-5 bites, they don't die, turn around and boom, 1 hit I'm dead.
Most of the aliens' strongest attacks are the "up close and personal" kind. You factor in the 150+ ping I see most people playing with + the no feedback problems mentioned earlier, and you have a very hard time killing things. And yes I know there are some very powerful ranged attacks for aliens, but you need 3 hives + upgrades to get them. Refer to my first point to see the problem with that.
Cheers,
Mr. PAin
I really want to like this mod, it has massive potential, but right now the "Arggggh!" factor is astronomical....
And yes, I'll agree, most aliens don't know how to work as a team which intensifies most problems
aliens during the early game are very very effective, but no one seems to know how to group together.
No strategy can save you from that though, and we got wiped out. I think number one priority for the devs should be sorting some kind of autoteam. It could either force people into the readyroom or maybe at the start of the game the "join marines" doorway closed when half the population of the server went through. Or something. That might be hard to do though.
Also, too many aliens tend to wander off by themselves and not stick together. Every class can help build marine style except the onos, so they can help build structures, yet no one seems to want to. They just want to kill on their own, which doesn't quite own.
That and gorges and skulks/offensive critters can make good attack parties w/ some hit and run. The commanders tend to drop healing and ammo like mad on parties under attack, but the aliens wandering by themselves don't do jack. To counter this, bring a gorge along with an attack party to not only expand quickly (with help from the other critters to build faster) but to give healing as well.
I tend to find that if 2 people on the team (in a game of 4+ per team) go Gorge, and one saves up for a hive and rushes with an attack party over to there, then they can get quite good upgrades off of the start. The other gorge does basebuilding and resource nabbing. After the hive nabber gets his hive, he basebuilds for a while until automated defense and movement chambers have been established between bases (if you build the movement chamber).
So generally, I think that ignorance of how to play combined with a lack of teamwork leads to the downfall of the aliens. With some knowledge and stragtegy (not to mention teamwork), they can dominate just as well as marines. (Lag and things like that aside).