So yes...1.04 (first time I played, personally) was quite awesome. The atmosphere was just...amazing. Theres tension, calls going up "I HEAR A GORGE!" or "AWH HELL! ANOTHER HIVE!" all over voice comm. The commander is in his chair trying to make his magic work, trying to keep track of everything going on, trying to keep medpacks and ammo supplied, trying to keep res nodes secure.
But besides the atmosphere, what was the true beauty of NS 1.04? If you did not have teamwork, you would lose, miserably, and horribly (with the exception of JP + HMG or JP + welder rambos...we all know that mess was bad). The alien team had a gorge. A lone gorge, and sometimes two if the team worked effectively. That gorge, had to be protected. If that gorge died, particularly with more than 33 resources, the team suffered a large setback.
If the marines didn't at least group up with another teammate, they were going to get their legs bitten off. Also, every single res node on any map even made was a battle in itself. You had to get to a res node, build it, and then secure it. There was no drop, build, and forget. There was no 6 alien res nodes going up at the beginning and hoping 3 survived. If you built a res node, you also invested additional resources into it. Anything from mines to 5 OCs.
I also believe that the ability for aliens to phase needs to be reinstated. One cruicial marine disadvantage is the inability to travel quickly. With the addition of electricity and a different tech tree, this should not be an issue. If you build a phase gate set, you should defend it, because those aliens that are on the other side just might be in your base in a second or two. This of course warrants the removal of the 'phase tech' upgrade...never liked it in the first place, but its required as compensation for lack of alien travel via phase.
Fades and Oni also did have a significantly fear factor, and they should. It took teamwork to bring down that fade. That fade that cost a lot of res (40 at the time, was it?). 40 res was a huge investment considering the resource model at the time. With good organization, a team didn't have much difficultly dealing with fades...but solo, or not even 2 marines could down one easily. I constantly solo fades with an L2 shotty now.
Which brings me to another point...the shotty took skill to use. The current shotgun isn't a bad change, but I just figured I'd bring up something that brought me pride...I was one of the few that commanders didn't have problems giving shotguns to, because I could use it well. =) Just a side note.
I also agree that hive 3 weapons had power (except babblers...that was fun all the same =)). Hive 3 weapons need to regain their power, especially since the only incentive to get more hives is to unlock the upgrades, and the additional weapon slot. However...sensory's value is still relatively limited at this point. Its seen huge advancements, don't get me wrong. The area of effect cloaking is godlike, but with the focus of the game now on bigger weaponry and liveforms, its value is nullified. You see oni and fades all the time now. Those oni and fades aren't going anywhere without defensive upgrades. The marines also need high powered weaponry to put up a fight against the oni and fades you see all the time, and so that weaponry has been made more easily available to marines. Which means that skulks stand significantly less of a chance than they ever did, further warranting defense>>movement>>sensory upgrades. The addition of focus helped for a time to convince the brutes( I've never been fond of raw power...I prefer the stealth and silent approach) to accept sensory first. However, its value quickly dies with a mere investment of...50 res I think it is? Its hard-hitting value is then dimished for the entire playout of the game.
I do believe that mapping concerns need to be addressed. Lighting...darkness is good. I believe Flayra frowns upon 'horror' aspects...lots of flickering lights, huge darkness areas, stuff like that. But at the very LEAST, the rules that alien parts of the map should be smaller (for easier skulking, as opposed to long and open hallways) need to be upheld, and then augmented with darkness. It should be tense. Not particularly *scary*, but tense, silent, dreary. Marines should feel like they're not at home. Another mapping concern is the difficulty associated with holding key areas on the map. There will most likely *never* be a map that is as epic to play on as ns_eclipse (KungFuSquirrel I believe is the map maker, and hats off to him.), with every res node being a battle, and every key point on the map not particularly easy to defend. Yet, its still small and you can get where you need to be, but its going to be a battle the entire distance. Things like the addition of the double node to ns_caged, that just make gameplay 'easier', should honestly not exist. If you want to control a part of the map, you should have to work for it.
The resource model from 1.04 is also a vital part of alien strategy. I really really really really really don't like the current model. Why? Because we have res ****. I can think of tens of better ways to spend 75 resources than on a hive 1 onos. The situation very rarely warrants it. Some of us (like me) enjoy being a gorge, being the backbone of the team, setting up defensive areas, healing stations, annoying marines with a few OCs around their res nodes, relaying vital information by scattering random OCs on the map. I udnerstand that with the past model (3 shares per gorge, 1 share per other player), if you had a gorge that didn't know what he was doing, someone that went gorge without understanding, or too many gorges, your team was doomed. However, I honestly believe that 2 shares per gorge, 1 share per other, and the reinstatement of the overflow going to the gorge would be fair, and if its unbalanced, we'll come up with something brilliant to balance it.
Overall...hive 3 abilities need to be readjusted, resources need to be more valuable (I would even be up for the reinstatement of the 1-minute activation), the alien resource model probably does need a chance, and mappers may need to re-evaluate their desicions, as well as help bring back some of the atmosphere.
So there is my collasal responce.
EDIT: I would also like to add that team size is a huge consideration in any balancing. Marines are grossly overpowered in anything larger than 8v8. I believe that the optimal size for a game should always be 6v6 or 7v7.
Oh...and I want all the good commanders from the old days to stop playing Combat and come back and comm for us. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I agree with TechnoMuffin on all points, he wen't beyond taking the words out of my mouth to taking them directly from my brain; I hope he didn't search around too much while he was in there...
While some of my desire for 1.04 based gameplay (with fixes, or course) may partly be due to nostalgia, but as the original poster said, the fear factor had a lot to do with it. As a marine, I was always nervous going around any corner (or anything else that could hide a skulk) no matter how many of my team-mates had just gone around it a second before... Or being a skulk, hiding on the roof of powersilo (not the ledges, hanging directly over the res node) and dropping down on the heads of marines... they were so jumpy back then "OMG! a skulk on my head! get it off get it off get it off!"... now it's just "oh god, not again... someone mind sparing a few bullets?"
This thread deserves a Medal... probably Purple Heart... two words: FEAR FACTOR - you are a genious mate! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NS really lost the atmosphere it had in the beginning. But, its normal, many changes were made, so the gameplay changed also. Not very long ago (dont remember version) this FEAR factor got humiliated to its limits. In older versions you heard Marines scream "ONOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!!!!!!!", which meant something like "OMG, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!" Then you had this horrible version. "ONOOOOOOOS!!!!" was the same as: "Look! A big walking meatball! LETS GET IT!" The hunter became the hunted...
Today, all that fear seems totally forgoten. An "ONOS!" is just something to fire at till it falls back and pay some attention it, as it could do good damage to buildings. A "Fade!" signals Aliens could get 2nd Hive up and we should get some Shotties, "Lerk" is a genetically mutated chicken-fly, and skulk just a banana-waste you could step on and hurt yourself. Ok, I know, im overdoing it, but still, my chair is clean and dry now. And believe me, in the old days I had to change pampers each round...
<!--QuoteBegin-JNighthawk+May 16 2004, 07:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JNighthawk @ May 16 2004, 07:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Currently, the only reply I have is to Schimmel: Electricity should not be removed, changed or altered in any way. It costs 30 res. It's very expensive and worth the expense. It costs twice as much as the actual node does to protect it until a Hive 2 fade/gorge or Hive 1 onos comes along. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I said electricity should be removed, but -only- if the game is reverted back to lifeform hive dependancy. Electricity grants immunity to the RT it protects against anything other than a fade (or onos), or an extremely persistant gorge/skulk combo.Considering fades would need another hive up to become available, that gives marines quite a bit of time to accumulate res on nodes that are pretty much untouchable.
I would really like to see lifeforms locked to hives again. With the recent lerk flight "buff" (IMHO it was a buff), it would probably help reduce the amount of reswhoring currently seen in pubs. It'll hopefully lead to more mid-tech and longer games.
Well no **** its lost its atmosphere, how long have you been playing this game? Eventually you realize its just another fps, same with any other game that tries to instill an atmosphere (ww2 games, other sci-fi). At some point, you stop thinking, "Oh its so dark and creepy in here! Ahhh that skulk came outta nowhere, how cool!" and start thinking, "God I can't see anything in here, how am I supposed to kill anything?".
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Thardin+May 15 2004, 12:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thardin @ May 15 2004, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only thing the onos dominates is the shadows it runs to after eating someone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bwahahahahahahahahaahhaahha!! please stop, your killing me! oh man, that is such a great qoute. you have captured what the onos is perfectly.
of course i agree that the onos is pathetically weenie, the best tactic to use as onos is just to pop arounda a corner, stomp the group of HA's eat one, and run your celerity **** out of there, and its so fking anoying. god. please take out stomp/paralyze and just give the onos back his dignity.
The fear factor doesn't wear off actually. Despite having played since 2002, now as a skulk I'm still terrified of the clink of doom as marines approach my position. It used to be that fades and oni were scary, but with skilled rambos or marines in groups pwning every single alien, theres little to be scared of as a marine.
Acid rocket and charge need buffing badly. Primal could probably do with having a larger AoE and/or a longer duration. A lerk cannot sit in the middle of a battle primalling and umbraing for long.
If bile bomb was hive 3 I think it should do damage to marines and do blast damage. Then gorges would have a point at 3 hives other than building chambers nearer to marine base.
I agree with many of the suggestions in this thread, NS Classic just isn't fun anymore. If the alien team isn't extremely good and well organized within the first 5 minutes, the marines are garunteed victory. It's not any fun for either side when the outcome of 99% of the games is decided in the first 3-5 minutes.
<b>IMO marine weapons are overpowered all across the board. Since the alien hitboxes are fixed now, all (and I mean all) marine projectile weapons need to do less damage. I would estimate something in the 30-40% less than current damage output. This would restore skulks at least some usefulness, and make the higher life forms more palletable and fearsome again.</b>
I've been saying this since the hitboxes were fixed, and I still stand by it. I only played maybe 20 games pre-2.0, but played tons and tons on the 2.x series. I've barely played ns classic at all since beta3's were released, it's just not any fun anymore.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
OH God, 30 to 40 percent less damage? God marines would lose every single time. The only thing that needs beefing up on the alien side in classic is the lerk (give it more speed OR give it more armor) so it is viable as an initial defense until 2nd hive is built (I'm starting to like the idea of tying lifeforms to hives again) and the Onos, which is really too slow. The hitbox change really only makes the Onos a lot weaker. The Fade is still very hard to hit when blinkign and ducking, and the skulk hitbox got -smaller-. Lerk hitboxes were already small.
I agree with many of the long multiple-paragraph posts in this thread, largely on the fear factor being obsolete.
"In older versions you heard Marines scream "ONOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!!!!!!!", which meant something like "OMG, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!" Then you had this horrible version. "ONOOOOOOOS!!!!" was the same as: "Look! A big walking meatball! LETS GET IT!" "
I laughed so hard I almost cried. And it's sadly true. Now that I think about it, when someone yells "Onos!" over the mic, immediately people want to run to it and be the first to knife it :/ Maybe a slight exaggeration, but.. there's no fear. Actually one of the things that made marines FUN to play was being scared to death of every dark corner and hole, trying to reach the high ground as the onos came charging in, it was FUN. Operative word! FUN!
Maps need darkness, long corridors are far too common. ns_eclipse is a hardcore awesome map. A good example of an excellently designed map from 1.04 is ns_caged. So many dark corners, tight spaces, absolutely LOVE that design. The new version is fairly good too, but not the same.
Fades get their OLD blink back. 1.04 blink > 3.03 blink BUT it required more skill to use. I'd also give fades Primal Scream, as, being a ninja class, they'd obviously make some sort of sound before they attack to "focus" their energy into their strike (like martial artists often do)
This frees up a slot for lerk to have SPIKES. Give lerks spikes + 5 more AP and 5 LESS HP. Spikes = slot 1, Bite = slot two, umbra slot 3, and spore slot 4. Keep the current flight model, but add in left/right strafeing and hovering in place.
Skulks... need some crack or speed or SOMETHIGN! Make em fast! Make em WEAK! I'd give skulks like... 50 HP/5 AP, BUT make them 75 units/second FASTER than they are now, and make em 2x as mobile! Makes em true scout/fast response critters.
Onos... hmm... I'd give it a reduced FOWARD/REAR hitbox (aka, make it a thin but LONG hitbox) to SIMULATE the headplate being armored. It's still easy enough to hit from side so <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Remove stomp... ugh, that's super ****, and instead put back in paralyze. At least they could SHOOT then! And it helps vs JP's IF you can aim it right.
Gorge = needs unnerfed the most. WHY? Give em BABBLERS back! Babblers = escape mechanism! It gave rines somethign to shoot while the gorge ran away! Make it slot 1 = Heal Spray, slot 2 = Babblers, slot 3 = web, slot 4 = bile bomb. Make bile bomb do 300 dmg vs buildings, and you got yerself a GREAT base breaker, but it needs guarded to do it's work!
Now, for rines:
Unnerf and re-nerf JP's. Make em so you can NOT fly, but you can hold position. Make it so going foward = loose some altitude, but going straight up = go REAL high.
Erm... that's all I can think of that rines need ATM... 0o'
How about making Focus seriously beef up 3rd hive abilies, if I'm not mistaken it doesn't affect them at all at the moment.
If 3 hives are up it's a given that there are going to be sensory chambers around, what I would propose is that Focus now works with 3rd hive abilities and does <b>not</b> slow down rate of fire. ( acid rocket )
Focus charge = ownage. Focus Acid Rocket, well this would probably just bring AR back to the way it used to be, which was fine. Focus xeno = ownage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Takran+May 20 2004, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Takran @ May 20 2004, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maps need darkness, long corridors are far too common. ns_eclipse is a hardcore awesome map. A good example of an excellently designed map from 1.04 is ns_caged. So many dark corners, tight spaces, absolutely LOVE that design. The new version is fairly good too, but not the same.
FEAR! WE WANT FEAR! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Eclipse WAS one of the better maps in times past...I mean yeah, the layout is still awesome, some of the changes and additions made it play better, but now it has the increased lighting, it kinda reminds me of a dirtier veil :/
<!--QuoteBegin-Even~Flow+May 20 2004, 11:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Even~Flow @ May 20 2004, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about making Focus seriously beef up 3rd hive abilies, if I'm not mistaken it doesn't affect them at all at the moment.
If 3 hives are up it's a given that there are going to be sensory chambers around, what I would propose is that Focus now works with 3rd hive abilities and does <b>not</b> slow down rate of fire. ( acid rocket )
Focus charge = ownage. Focus Acid Rocket, well this would probably just bring AR back to the way it used to be, which was fine. Focus xeno = ownage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Er, well, Focus used to affect *all* alien abilites, but it was removed cause Focus Xeno = Insta-kill a whole squad of marines.
Also, about this fear factor; I agree. The things that scare me the most now is when I am a skulk and I hear the clank of metal boots. When I'm a marine and I hear the tapping of skulks or even the roaring of an onos, I'm not afraid at all. I even chase after onii when they run out of the base.
Here's my view on the aliens, and how they could possibly be made scarier: Skulk: Make it's skin darker so they are harder to spot, make leap do more damage on touch (not after 1 second!). Gorge: Spit, Healing Spray, Webs, Bile Bomb. Bile Bomb would now hurt marines as well as do blast damage. Lerk: Their abilites should cost less energy, currently Adrenaline is a very needed upgrade for Lerks, but lerks without Celerity are slow... Fade: Okay, read this whole thing before flaming. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> First of all: blink is removed. Yep. Instead, Fades get faster running speed (like a skulk almost). Also, whenever they press jump (+jump), they'll leap forward much like the skulk except they wouldn't do any damage, and they would leap more upwards, and not so far. So then we've got a fade with these abilites: Swipe, Metabolize (yay for Meta at hive1), Acid Rockets (possibly with upped damage) and then finally another weapon at hive3. Now Fades would be able to run in while using metabolize, leap far into the air, run up behind a heavy and hit him a few times, then run and leap up, use meta, etc. Personally, I would think it'd be more scary to see a large black creature running at you at a high speed like an angry gorilla or something! Just my opinions though. Possibly raise Fade HP/AP to compensate for loss of blink. Finally, the Onos. It should be back at 100 res, but with 100 more HP and 200 more armor. When shot at the headplate it should take half damage (or 1/3). Whenever an LA marine gets in its way it would push it forward. If there is a wall there, the marine would get squished (so an Onos could push an LA marine into a wall to kill him). Charge should also insta-kill LAs, and really hurt HAs. Remove stomp, possibly, to replace with something else. The Onos should be the Kharaa base breaker in my opinion, and think about it, wouldn't you be scared if you got an onos running right behind you, and you know that it can insta-kill you by just running into you and smashing you into a wall?
So, yeah, those are my suggestions to possibly make the Kharaa more scary. They will probably never be implemented, but oh well <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-ShdwStal+May 21 2004, 01:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShdwStal @ May 21 2004, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Even~Flow+May 20 2004, 11:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Even~Flow @ May 20 2004, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about making Focus seriously beef up 3rd hive abilies, if I'm not mistaken it doesn't affect them at all at the moment.
If 3 hives are up it's a given that there are going to be sensory chambers around, what I would propose is that Focus now works with 3rd hive abilities and does <b>not</b> slow down rate of fire. ( acid rocket )
Focus charge = ownage. Focus Acid Rocket, well this would probably just bring AR back to the way it used to be, which was fine. Focus xeno = ownage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er, well, Focus used to affect *all* alien abilites, but it was removed cause Focus Xeno = Insta-kill a whole squad of marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This was only a problem with Combat, it would be just what is needed to finish things off in Classic though.
What's that? Making sensory properly viable in classic? Heaven forbid! DSM would be good if focus boosted all attacks. Hell SMD would be good for fades if it made meta twice as effective.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ballisto+May 21 2004, 11:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ballisto @ May 21 2004, 11:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just a thought.... (correct me if I'm wrong).
2.0 was when onos stopped being scary.
2.0 was when stomp came out.
Coincidence? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1.0x was the scary onos. 2.0x was the "onos-you-need-to-be-cautious-about" 3.0x onos is knifebait.
<!--QuoteBegin-Chanty+May 21 2004, 11:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chanty @ May 21 2004, 11:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lessee xeno is a 3 point investment... tie that in with 2 points for focus
that some how resembles 3 for GL 2 for lvl 3 weapons (i might be wrong, correct me if i am)
GL = Focus Xeno?
i think its about fair...considering that nades are spammable at a very annoying rate
maybe give xeno a longer charge up time? or maybe reduce the range of a focus xeno since the area of effect is "focused" into a smaller area?
that should balance it out <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> uh....We're talking about Classic NS.
Supernorn, I believe that focus was moved to affecting only 0 hive abilities because it was causing horrible unbalances in combat. Please, correct me if I'm mistaken on that, but I thought I read that somewhere. Chanty, thus, appears to be saying that the increased costs of focus and hive 3 abilities in combat no longer make focus on more than 0 hive abilities unbalanced and thus it might work on all abilities again. At least that's what I thought he was trying to say.
Now, onto the topic of this thread. I couldn't agree more. It's now scarier to play as an alien than a marine. Skulks die insanely quick after marines get a few upgrades so you basically have to avoid most marines. Also, as a higher lifeform, you always have to be afraid of dying as it takes so long to rebuild the res if you die quickly. Thus, aliens have to be afraid of dying. Marines on the other hand really aren't out much if they die. They come back with the same upgrades they had, possibly minus a gun though, and really haven't hurt their team too much by their death. I'd love to see mariens be afriad again, but the current build of the game would have to be reworked almost entirely to do that I believe. And though I think that would actually be a good idea as I'm not to happy with 3.0x in general, I don't really see it happening.
Generally the lack of "fear factor" should be attributed more to the fact that people are used to the mod now (remember those few first builds when everything was new shiny and scary?). Now we know exact strategies how ot take down an onos, and even if you die, you know that this isn't CS - you'll still respawn. Not much to fear. As for hive 3 weapons, they were nerfed for a reason - hive 3 makes every single lifeform on the field significantly more durable. If you kept old weapons, marines would've been hopelessly owned.
Let's dissect a few weapon changes for v2>v3.
<b>Xenocide</b> - less damage. Practical use: Two skulks can no longer whipe out entire HA squads (that's 0 res lifeform whiping out hundreds of resourses worth of marines) like they could in v2. It now requires a close teamwork for at least 3-4 skulks, which is really the minimal force that should be able to take out the 5-8 player several hundred costing train without spending any resourses. It still works wonders in teamwork for severe softening and finishing off the enemy in assaults as well. Verdict - weakened to increase the need of teamwork.
<b>Web</b> - Less webs allowed total, grenades now destroy webs. Practical use: massive webbing of everything a la v1 and early v2 builds is simply not NS-style. One player should nt be able to hold the entire enemy team down forever. Additionally wasting of webs is now extremeally prohibitive - you must think where you put your webs as the total number of allwed webs is low. Best way to lay webs now is from behind the assault/defense lines straight on the attacking marines. Verdict - weakened to force more teamwork.
<b>Primal Scream</b> - no significant changes afaik, it still increases both damage and attack rate significantly. Practical use: this is the "break through" skill - it forces the lerk to stay close within the lines of the main assault. The prizes are lucrative - double attack rate and significantly boosted damage for all attacks for several seconds allow a relatively small group of higher lifeforms to lay waste to even heavy armor trains in a matter of seconds. Umbra support, even as nerfed as it is, also helps a lot. Verdict: if anything, primal scream has been becoming more and more powerful over time - the increased need for team work forces other lifeforms to pay more attention to keep the lerk that umbras/primal screams them, as the damage and attack speed boosts are often more valuable then keeping that one onos alive during the assault. Verdict: at least powerful, if not more poweful then before.
<b>Acid Rocket</b> - damage cut in half, firing rate increased and energy drain lessened. Practical use: from the "best ranged weapon in the game" to decent one. Before, adrenaline fades simply ruled ranged combat - marines could do nothing against a good fade once it dot AR, and it got even worse with primal scream. I still remember the times when I simply sat on the outskirts of the marine start with a single lerk, and kept up a steady shower of acid above it - murdering marines in droves within 1-2 seconds, with them being totally helpless do do anything - there simply are no weapons accurate enough on marine side to damage a fade significantly enough to even make him retreat from under umbra and primal scream. The current nerf makes acid rocket a pure "soften them up for close quartrs combat" weapon. Which suits the fade's flanking style of combat perfectly - you drain their armor, then move in for the kill. The added "move in" part lets marines to have at least a chance to kill you. Which is only fair. Verdict: Specialized to force fade into close combat rather then having a "super acid spore" for fade.
<b>Charge</b> - damage increased (!) Practical use: almost no one on pubs know how to use this weapon correctly - of this I'm sure. I personally start accounting ~1/4-1/5 of my kills to charge after 3rd hive. Main problem with charge is that charge kills don't register correctly - in NS the weapon that shows to have made the kill (unless it's a separate entity like a grenade or a mine) is the one you have selected. And no one in their right mind would have charge selected when charging. Hence you'll see instant (!) devours and even stomp kills once in a while - those are charge kills that aren't shown to be made by charge as another weapon was selected. In general, charge is the weapon that fixes onos' main flaw - lack of speed. Mixed with adrenaline, you cna mass stomp, and you still can get away if marines decide to single you out and flank you. Additionally, doing very decent damage to those that try to block your exit (you should usually be able to kill off the armor 3 marines that try to block you in 1-2 gores instead of 3 due to charge damage). Verdict: more and more powerful as the damage ratio continues to increase from build to build. Requires skill and correct upgrades to be used effectively.
In general, most weapons (with the exception of primal scream) became more or less specialized. As such, they started requiring more skill and teamwork to use. It has nothing to do with fear factor (as skilled players really fear nothing and I'm ready to bet that many pubbers have the skill equal to that of an <i>average</i> clanner in 1.x days). The game has simply been out long enough to have that many skilled players now.
My point in a nutshell - stop complaining about weapons not being powerful enough, and learn to use them in ways that are effective.
Well, in my POV. If aliens has already fought so hard to get the 3rd hive, marines should die. If marines carelessly allowed the aliens to get the 3rd hive, marines also deserve to die.
A lot of games I see now is very disturbing. NS is suppose to be the game that if you allowed the aliens to lurk within the perimeters of the humans, aliens will become over-whemmingly stronger to a point where marines already lost control.
In reality of the game, marine was allow to stayed on longer. They became stronger than the aliens. You can summon a HA team faster than aliens can have at least 3 oni.
If you allowed me to change a bit of things. I think just give back fades there uber acid rocket damage back should do the trick.
Also, about teamwork. I think aliens are having more teamwork than marines. Look at the games now, rambo here and there. Since redempt was nerfed, gorges can barely stay alive.
Comments
So yes...1.04 (first time I played, personally) was quite awesome. The atmosphere was just...amazing. Theres tension, calls going up "I HEAR A GORGE!" or "AWH HELL! ANOTHER HIVE!" all over voice comm. The commander is in his chair trying to make his magic work, trying to keep track of everything going on, trying to keep medpacks and ammo supplied, trying to keep res nodes secure.
But besides the atmosphere, what was the true beauty of NS 1.04? If you did not have teamwork, you would lose, miserably, and horribly (with the exception of JP + HMG or JP + welder rambos...we all know that mess was bad). The alien team had a gorge. A lone gorge, and sometimes two if the team worked effectively. That gorge, had to be protected. If that gorge died, particularly with more than 33 resources, the team suffered a large setback.
If the marines didn't at least group up with another teammate, they were going to get their legs bitten off. Also, every single res node on any map even made was a battle in itself. You had to get to a res node, build it, and then secure it. There was no drop, build, and forget. There was no 6 alien res nodes going up at the beginning and hoping 3 survived. If you built a res node, you also invested additional resources into it. Anything from mines to 5 OCs.
I also believe that the ability for aliens to phase needs to be reinstated. One cruicial marine disadvantage is the inability to travel quickly. With the addition of electricity and a different tech tree, this should not be an issue. If you build a phase gate set, you should defend it, because those aliens that are on the other side just might be in your base in a second or two. This of course warrants the removal of the 'phase tech' upgrade...never liked it in the first place, but its required as compensation for lack of alien travel via phase.
Fades and Oni also did have a significantly fear factor, and they should. It took teamwork to bring down that fade. That fade that cost a lot of res (40 at the time, was it?). 40 res was a huge investment considering the resource model at the time. With good organization, a team didn't have much difficultly dealing with fades...but solo, or not even 2 marines could down one easily. I constantly solo fades with an L2 shotty now.
Which brings me to another point...the shotty took skill to use. The current shotgun isn't a bad change, but I just figured I'd bring up something that brought me pride...I was one of the few that commanders didn't have problems giving shotguns to, because I could use it well. =) Just a side note.
I also agree that hive 3 weapons had power (except babblers...that was fun all the same =)). Hive 3 weapons need to regain their power, especially since the only incentive to get more hives is to unlock the upgrades, and the additional weapon slot. However...sensory's value is still relatively limited at this point. Its seen huge advancements, don't get me wrong. The area of effect cloaking is godlike, but with the focus of the game now on bigger weaponry and liveforms, its value is nullified. You see oni and fades all the time now. Those oni and fades aren't going anywhere without defensive upgrades. The marines also need high powered weaponry to put up a fight against the oni and fades you see all the time, and so that weaponry has been made more easily available to marines. Which means that skulks stand significantly less of a chance than they ever did, further warranting defense>>movement>>sensory upgrades. The addition of focus helped for a time to convince the brutes( I've never been fond of raw power...I prefer the stealth and silent approach) to accept sensory first. However, its value quickly dies with a mere investment of...50 res I think it is? Its hard-hitting value is then dimished for the entire playout of the game.
I do believe that mapping concerns need to be addressed. Lighting...darkness is good. I believe Flayra frowns upon 'horror' aspects...lots of flickering lights, huge darkness areas, stuff like that. But at the very LEAST, the rules that alien parts of the map should be smaller (for easier skulking, as opposed to long and open hallways) need to be upheld, and then augmented with darkness. It should be tense. Not particularly *scary*, but tense, silent, dreary. Marines should feel like they're not at home. Another mapping concern is the difficulty associated with holding key areas on the map. There will most likely *never* be a map that is as epic to play on as ns_eclipse (KungFuSquirrel I believe is the map maker, and hats off to him.), with every res node being a battle, and every key point on the map not particularly easy to defend. Yet, its still small and you can get where you need to be, but its going to be a battle the entire distance. Things like the addition of the double node to ns_caged, that just make gameplay 'easier', should honestly not exist. If you want to control a part of the map, you should have to work for it.
The resource model from 1.04 is also a vital part of alien strategy. I really really really really really don't like the current model. Why? Because we have res ****. I can think of tens of better ways to spend 75 resources than on a hive 1 onos. The situation very rarely warrants it. Some of us (like me) enjoy being a gorge, being the backbone of the team, setting up defensive areas, healing stations, annoying marines with a few OCs around their res nodes, relaying vital information by scattering random OCs on the map. I udnerstand that with the past model (3 shares per gorge, 1 share per other player), if you had a gorge that didn't know what he was doing, someone that went gorge without understanding, or too many gorges, your team was doomed. However, I honestly believe that 2 shares per gorge, 1 share per other, and the reinstatement of the overflow going to the gorge would be fair, and if its unbalanced, we'll come up with something brilliant to balance it.
Overall...hive 3 abilities need to be readjusted, resources need to be more valuable (I would even be up for the reinstatement of the 1-minute activation), the alien resource model probably does need a chance, and mappers may need to re-evaluate their desicions, as well as help bring back some of the atmosphere.
So there is my collasal responce.
EDIT: I would also like to add that team size is a huge consideration in any balancing. Marines are grossly overpowered in anything larger than 8v8. I believe that the optimal size for a game should always be 6v6 or 7v7.
Oh...and I want all the good commanders from the old days to stop playing Combat and come back and comm for us. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
While some of my desire for 1.04 based gameplay (with fixes, or course) may partly be due to nostalgia, but as the original poster said, the fear factor had a lot to do with it. As a marine, I was always nervous going around any corner (or anything else that could hide a skulk) no matter how many of my team-mates had just gone around it a second before... Or being a skulk, hiding on the roof of powersilo (not the ledges, hanging directly over the res node) and dropping down on the heads of marines... they were so jumpy back then "OMG! a skulk on my head! get it off get it off get it off!"... now it's just "oh god, not again... someone mind sparing a few bullets?"
two words: FEAR FACTOR - you are a genious mate! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NS really lost the atmosphere it had in the beginning.
But, its normal, many changes were made, so the gameplay changed also.
Not very long ago (dont remember version) this FEAR factor got humiliated to its limits.
In older versions you heard Marines scream "ONOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!!!!!!!", which meant something like "OMG, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!"
Then you had this horrible version. "ONOOOOOOOS!!!!" was the same as:
"Look! A big walking meatball! LETS GET IT!"
The hunter became the hunted...
Today, all that fear seems totally forgoten.
An "ONOS!" is just something to fire at till it falls back and pay some attention it, as it could do good damage to buildings.
A "Fade!" signals Aliens could get 2nd Hive up and we should get some Shotties, "Lerk" is a genetically mutated chicken-fly, and skulk just a banana-waste you could step on and hurt yourself.
Ok, I know, im overdoing it, but still, my chair is clean and dry now.
And believe me, in the old days I had to change pampers each round...
(That doom-spelling "ka-chick" sound of an LMG cocking, or just a few footsteps. Eek.)
I said electricity should be removed, but -only- if the game is reverted back to lifeform hive dependancy. Electricity grants immunity to the RT it protects against anything other than a fade (or onos), or an extremely persistant gorge/skulk combo.Considering fades would need another hive up to become available, that gives marines quite a bit of time to accumulate res on nodes that are pretty much untouchable.
Bwahahahahahahahahaahhaahha!! please stop, your killing me! oh man, that is such a great qoute. you have captured what the onos is perfectly.
of course i agree that the onos is pathetically weenie, the best tactic to use as onos is just to pop arounda a corner, stomp the group of HA's eat one, and run your celerity **** out of there, and its so fking anoying. god. please take out stomp/paralyze and just give the onos back his dignity.
If bile bomb was hive 3 I think it should do damage to marines and do blast damage. Then gorges would have a point at 3 hives other than building chambers nearer to marine base.
<b>IMO marine weapons are overpowered all across the board. Since the alien hitboxes are fixed now, all (and I mean all) marine projectile weapons need to do less damage. I would estimate something in the 30-40% less than current damage output. This would restore skulks at least some usefulness, and make the higher life forms more palletable and fearsome again.</b>
I've been saying this since the hitboxes were fixed, and I still stand by it. I only played maybe 20 games pre-2.0, but played tons and tons on the 2.x series. I've barely played ns classic at all since beta3's were released, it's just not any fun anymore.
An onos should be able to take tons and tons of damage even from several fully upgraded HMG's and shotguns before going down...
Also, the paralyse effect would be much better with the lerk...
Lerk should spore/paralyse to maximise his spore efficiency vs a marine...
"In older versions you heard Marines scream "ONOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!!!!!!!", which meant something like "OMG, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!"
Then you had this horrible version. "ONOOOOOOOS!!!!" was the same as:
"Look! A big walking meatball! LETS GET IT!"
"
I laughed so hard I almost cried. And it's sadly true. Now that I think about it, when someone yells "Onos!" over the mic, immediately people want to run to it and be the first to knife it :/ Maybe a slight exaggeration, but.. there's no fear. Actually one of the things that made marines FUN to play was being scared to death of every dark corner and hole, trying to reach the high ground as the onos came charging in, it was FUN. Operative word! FUN!
Maps need darkness, long corridors are far too common. ns_eclipse is a hardcore awesome map. A good example of an excellently designed map from 1.04 is ns_caged. So many dark corners, tight spaces, absolutely LOVE that design. The new version is fairly good too, but not the same.
FEAR! WE WANT FEAR!
Fades get their OLD blink back. 1.04 blink > 3.03 blink BUT it required more skill to use. I'd also give fades Primal Scream, as, being a ninja class, they'd obviously make some sort of sound before they attack to "focus" their energy into their strike (like martial artists often do)
This frees up a slot for lerk to have SPIKES. Give lerks spikes + 5 more AP and 5 LESS HP. Spikes = slot 1, Bite = slot two, umbra slot 3, and spore slot 4. Keep the current flight model, but add in left/right strafeing and hovering in place.
Skulks... need some crack or speed or SOMETHIGN! Make em fast! Make em WEAK! I'd give skulks like... 50 HP/5 AP, BUT make them 75 units/second FASTER than they are now, and make em 2x as mobile! Makes em true scout/fast response critters.
Onos... hmm... I'd give it a reduced FOWARD/REAR hitbox (aka, make it a thin but LONG hitbox) to SIMULATE the headplate being armored. It's still easy enough to hit from side so <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Remove stomp... ugh, that's super ****, and instead put back in paralyze. At least they could SHOOT then! And it helps vs JP's IF you can aim it right.
Gorge = needs unnerfed the most. WHY? Give em BABBLERS back! Babblers = escape mechanism! It gave rines somethign to shoot while the gorge ran away! Make it slot 1 = Heal Spray, slot 2 = Babblers, slot 3 = web, slot 4 = bile bomb. Make bile bomb do 300 dmg vs buildings, and you got yerself a GREAT base breaker, but it needs guarded to do it's work!
Now, for rines:
Unnerf and re-nerf JP's. Make em so you can NOT fly, but you can hold position. Make it so going foward = loose some altitude, but going straight up = go REAL high.
Erm... that's all I can think of that rines need ATM... 0o'
If 3 hives are up it's a given that there are going to be sensory chambers around, what I would propose is that Focus now works with 3rd hive abilities and does <b>not</b> slow down rate of fire. ( acid rocket )
Focus charge = ownage.
Focus Acid Rocket, well this would probably just bring AR back to the way it used to be, which was fine.
Focus xeno = ownage.
FEAR! WE WANT FEAR! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eclipse WAS one of the better maps in times past...I mean yeah, the layout is still awesome, some of the changes and additions made it play better, but now it has the increased lighting, it kinda reminds me of a dirtier veil :/
I miss the eerie blue triad.
If 3 hives are up it's a given that there are going to be sensory chambers around, what I would propose is that Focus now works with 3rd hive abilities and does <b>not</b> slow down rate of fire. ( acid rocket )
Focus charge = ownage.
Focus Acid Rocket, well this would probably just bring AR back to the way it used to be, which was fine.
Focus xeno = ownage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, well, Focus used to affect *all* alien abilites, but it was removed cause Focus Xeno = Insta-kill a whole squad of marines.
Also, about this fear factor; I agree. The things that scare me the most now is when I am a skulk and I hear the clank of metal boots. When I'm a marine and I hear the tapping of skulks or even the roaring of an onos, I'm not afraid at all. I even chase after onii when they run out of the base.
Here's my view on the aliens, and how they could possibly be made scarier:
Skulk: Make it's skin darker so they are harder to spot, make leap do more damage on touch (not after 1 second!).
Gorge: Spit, Healing Spray, Webs, Bile Bomb. Bile Bomb would now hurt marines as well as do blast damage.
Lerk: Their abilites should cost less energy, currently Adrenaline is a very needed upgrade for Lerks, but lerks without Celerity are slow...
Fade: Okay, read this whole thing before flaming. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
First of all: blink is removed. Yep. Instead, Fades get faster running speed (like a skulk almost). Also, whenever they press jump (+jump), they'll leap forward much like the skulk except they wouldn't do any damage, and they would leap more upwards, and not so far. So then we've got a fade with these abilites: Swipe, Metabolize (yay for Meta at hive1), Acid Rockets (possibly with upped damage) and then finally another weapon at hive3. Now Fades would be able to run in while using metabolize, leap far into the air, run up behind a heavy and hit him a few times, then run and leap up, use meta, etc. Personally, I would think it'd be more scary to see a large black creature running at you at a high speed like an angry gorilla or something! Just my opinions though. Possibly raise Fade HP/AP to compensate for loss of blink.
Finally, the Onos. It should be back at 100 res, but with 100 more HP and 200 more armor. When shot at the headplate it should take half damage (or 1/3). Whenever an LA marine gets in its way it would push it forward. If there is a wall there, the marine would get squished (so an Onos could push an LA marine into a wall to kill him).
Charge should also insta-kill LAs, and really hurt HAs. Remove stomp, possibly, to replace with something else. The Onos should be the Kharaa base breaker in my opinion, and think about it, wouldn't you be scared if you got an onos running right behind you, and you know that it can insta-kill you by just running into you and smashing you into a wall?
So, yeah, those are my suggestions to possibly make the Kharaa more scary. They will probably never be implemented, but oh well <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If 3 hives are up it's a given that there are going to be sensory chambers around, what I would propose is that Focus now works with 3rd hive abilities and does <b>not</b> slow down rate of fire. ( acid rocket )
Focus charge = ownage.
Focus Acid Rocket, well this would probably just bring AR back to the way it used to be, which was fine.
Focus xeno = ownage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, well, Focus used to affect *all* alien abilites, but it was removed cause Focus Xeno = Insta-kill a whole squad of marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was only a problem with Combat, it would be just what is needed to finish things off in Classic though.
2.0 was when onos stopped being scary.
2.0 was when stomp came out.
Coincidence?
tie that in with 2 points for focus
that some how resembles
3 for GL
2 for lvl 3 weapons
(i might be wrong, correct me if i am)
GL = Focus Xeno?
i think its about fair...considering that nades are spammable at a very annoying rate
maybe give xeno a longer charge up time? or maybe reduce the range of a focus xeno since the area of effect is "focused" into a smaller area?
that should balance it out
2.0 was when onos stopped being scary.
2.0 was when stomp came out.
Coincidence? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.0x was the scary onos.
2.0x was the "onos-you-need-to-be-cautious-about"
3.0x onos is knifebait.
tie that in with 2 points for focus
that some how resembles
3 for GL
2 for lvl 3 weapons
(i might be wrong, correct me if i am)
GL = Focus Xeno?
i think its about fair...considering that nades are spammable at a very annoying rate
maybe give xeno a longer charge up time? or maybe reduce the range of a focus xeno since the area of effect is "focused" into a smaller area?
that should balance it out <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
uh....We're talking about Classic NS.
You're talking about Combat.
Now, onto the topic of this thread. I couldn't agree more. It's now scarier to play as an alien than a marine. Skulks die insanely quick after marines get a few upgrades so you basically have to avoid most marines. Also, as a higher lifeform, you always have to be afraid of dying as it takes so long to rebuild the res if you die quickly. Thus, aliens have to be afraid of dying. Marines on the other hand really aren't out much if they die. They come back with the same upgrades they had, possibly minus a gun though, and really haven't hurt their team too much by their death. I'd love to see mariens be afriad again, but the current build of the game would have to be reworked almost entirely to do that I believe. And though I think that would actually be a good idea as I'm not to happy with 3.0x in general, I don't really see it happening.
As for hive 3 weapons, they were nerfed for a reason - hive 3 makes every single lifeform on the field significantly more durable. If you kept old weapons, marines would've been hopelessly owned.
Let's dissect a few weapon changes for v2>v3.
<b>Xenocide</b> - less damage.
Practical use: Two skulks can no longer whipe out entire HA squads (that's 0 res lifeform whiping out hundreds of resourses worth of marines) like they could in v2. It now requires a close teamwork for at least 3-4 skulks, which is really the minimal force that should be able to take out the 5-8 player several hundred costing train without spending any resourses. It still works wonders in teamwork for severe softening and finishing off the enemy in assaults as well.
Verdict - weakened to increase the need of teamwork.
<b>Web</b> - Less webs allowed total, grenades now destroy webs.
Practical use: massive webbing of everything a la v1 and early v2 builds is simply not NS-style. One player should nt be able to hold the entire enemy team down forever. Additionally wasting of webs is now extremeally prohibitive - you must think where you put your webs as the total number of allwed webs is low. Best way to lay webs now is from behind the assault/defense lines straight on the attacking marines.
Verdict - weakened to force more teamwork.
<b>Primal Scream</b> - no significant changes afaik, it still increases both damage and attack rate significantly.
Practical use: this is the "break through" skill - it forces the lerk to stay close within the lines of the main assault. The prizes are lucrative - double attack rate and significantly boosted damage for all attacks for several seconds allow a relatively small group of higher lifeforms to lay waste to even heavy armor trains in a matter of seconds. Umbra support, even as nerfed as it is, also helps a lot.
Verdict: if anything, primal scream has been becoming more and more powerful over time - the increased need for team work forces other lifeforms to pay more attention to keep the lerk that umbras/primal screams them, as the damage and attack speed boosts are often more valuable then keeping that one onos alive during the assault.
Verdict: at least powerful, if not more poweful then before.
<b>Acid Rocket</b> - damage cut in half, firing rate increased and energy drain lessened.
Practical use: from the "best ranged weapon in the game" to decent one. Before, adrenaline fades simply ruled ranged combat - marines could do nothing against a good fade once it dot AR, and it got even worse with primal scream. I still remember the times when I simply sat on the outskirts of the marine start with a single lerk, and kept up a steady shower of acid above it - murdering marines in droves within 1-2 seconds, with them being totally helpless do do anything - there simply are no weapons accurate enough on marine side to damage a fade significantly enough to even make him retreat from under umbra and primal scream. The current nerf makes acid rocket a pure "soften them up for close quartrs combat" weapon. Which suits the fade's flanking style of combat perfectly - you drain their armor, then move in for the kill. The added "move in" part lets marines to have at least a chance to kill you. Which is only fair.
Verdict: Specialized to force fade into close combat rather then having a "super acid spore" for fade.
<b>Charge</b> - damage increased (!)
Practical use: almost no one on pubs know how to use this weapon correctly - of this I'm sure. I personally start accounting ~1/4-1/5 of my kills to charge after 3rd hive.
Main problem with charge is that charge kills don't register correctly - in NS the weapon that shows to have made the kill (unless it's a separate entity like a grenade or a mine) is the one you have selected. And no one in their right mind would have charge selected when charging. Hence you'll see instant (!) devours and even stomp kills once in a while - those are charge kills that aren't shown to be made by charge as another weapon was selected.
In general, charge is the weapon that fixes onos' main flaw - lack of speed. Mixed with adrenaline, you cna mass stomp, and you still can get away if marines decide to single you out and flank you. Additionally, doing very decent damage to those that try to block your exit (you should usually be able to kill off the armor 3 marines that try to block you in 1-2 gores instead of 3 due to charge damage).
Verdict: more and more powerful as the damage ratio continues to increase from build to build. Requires skill and correct upgrades to be used effectively.
In general, most weapons (with the exception of primal scream) became more or less specialized. As such, they started requiring more skill and teamwork to use. It has nothing to do with fear factor (as skilled players really fear nothing and I'm ready to bet that many pubbers have the skill equal to that of an <i>average</i> clanner in 1.x days). The game has simply been out long enough to have that many skilled players now.
My point in a nutshell - stop complaining about weapons not being powerful enough, and learn to use them in ways that are effective.
A lot of games I see now is very disturbing. NS is suppose to be the game that if you allowed the aliens to lurk within the perimeters of the humans, aliens will become over-whemmingly stronger to a point where marines already lost control.
In reality of the game, marine was allow to stayed on longer. They became stronger than the aliens. You can summon a HA team faster than aliens can have at least 3 oni.
If you allowed me to change a bit of things. I think just give back fades there uber acid rocket damage back should do the trick.
Also, about teamwork. I think aliens are having more teamwork than marines. Look at the games now, rambo here and there. Since redempt was nerfed, gorges can barely stay alive.