How Long Does It Take You To Make A Map?

Mouse · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ May 27 2004, 08:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ive probably put about 300 hours into this so far

<img src='http://www.socalledpride.com/mapping/pics/hammer.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

and im nearing completion, just got the hive to make, and a few more access points to it

/edit - sorry to anyone that uses 800*600 res or less, for messing up there forum view  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
heh, you do <b>not</b> want to see the zoomed out hammer view for hydrosity <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Ron2K · May 2004

Now you've made me want to see it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Recoup · May 2004

I've decided to create my own level, trying to blend textures from Ayumi and possibly Bast together into a form of industrial bit. And, if Kestrel can help me, make a large room with a dome roof that has athe electrical stuff zapping across it so people will just drop their jaws when looking up at it.

Zephor · May 2004

I spent 9 hours on a marine start, 2 rooms and a hive room. And that is just with basic detailing.

ZupE · May 2004

co_cargo with all the betas put together prob took me 15 hours of building.. 2 hours of looking for textures... 2 hours testing out entities... and 5 hours brain storming.

so its about 24 hours to make co_cargo.. but its a small map =)

Belgarion · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ May 27 2004, 07:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> heh, you do <b>not</b> want to see the zoomed out hammer view for hydrosity <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
yeah mouseh! c'mon, let's have it! we can take it like the battle hardened mouse movers and keyboard mashers that we are.

Uh-Oh · May 2004

I do notice I keep coming back on rooms I thought were done (for beta 1 atleast). I was sure my marine spawn was finished, and yet, I put another 4 hours on it. I redid the entire texture work, added a few brushes and tweaked lighting. I did spend 2 and a half hours just to retexture the marine spawn...

Does that happen often? You finish a room, and come back a week later to redo the whole freakin' texture work?

Edit: I also want to see the hammer view mouse. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Some_tall_guy1 · May 2004

I'll make a room, fully detail it, look around with all its glory, then after an hour of looking for flaws n such, id move onto the next room but repeatedly come back to the old room if I realize I've done something wrong or whatnot. ~3 hours per room depending on size

Soylent_green · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> heh, you do not want to see the zoomed out hammer view for hydrosity</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Have you ever run into the hammer editor complaining that there are too many visible brushes? That's how you know you're REALLY spammy.

Once_Only · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lord Maldazzar @ May 27 2004, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> another good way is: build only the floors first... then the walls and after that the ceilings. then build the detailed things :>  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
yeah someone told me hollowing and carving is sort of bad for the map. I have noticed that carving splits everything into more brushes (carving a door way turns a wall into four seperate burshes)

Lord_Maldazzar · May 2004

best way is still: build the floors... then the walls... then the ceilings, and then add details/entities/lights/etc. so its much easier to control r_speeds in an area.

texturing is the worst part on my opinion: it can take hours until sb is really satisfied with the texturing of only ONE ROOM!

ah end: a lil tip for all new mappers out there: use highscale brushes and scale them down a bit, it gives your map a lot more detail without wasting polies. <<< thats what i still have to do <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

o/t: if someone plays my map, tell me if you find any errors (not texture errors, ill redo the whole textures soon).

sry for o/t

Defenser · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lord Maldazzar @ May 26 2004, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>another good way is: build only the floors first... then the walls and after that the ceilings. then build the detailed things :></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I havent played NS very much, since 2.0 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />. Took weeks when I even found this forum, I've been ghosting here since. Hmm... I usually build walls first, floor, ceiling... Then I make VERY basic texturing, then some lightning, then compile(doesn't take very long, thanks for network-rendering system), better lightning, some details, compile, if i am satisfied then i fully detail whole room. compile. then i adjust textures(if i even do that <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> ), compile!
I think i am just sticked to make CS-stylish maps... My NS maps look(still?) bit non-NS-ish... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

And to the question... I havent ever finished any NS map yet(first almost done), and it has took about 70hours...(My CS maps took quite long time, biggest took over 120h i think)

Thaldarin · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ May 26 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> One never truely finishes a map, one just gets bored with it.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I agree. Ns_Glory B1. Took me 8months to make, I got bored with it a few weeks later, not done nothing else to it. Look at my website (and possibly dl it) to see what i mean

Lord_Maldazzar · May 2004

aaah, i forgot to say: build your whole map with "null"-texture first, and then texture all visible parts with whatever texture you want.
;D

Mouse · May 2004

Bah, fine. here it is <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Here's some background on hydrosity.<ul><li>I've been working on ns_hydrosity on and off since september 2002</li><li>At a guess I would say it has close to 800 hours of work in it</li><li>It has about 20 hours of unsaved work that was lost from Hammer crashing from time to time to its name</li><li>Hydrosity is made out of 4527 brushes which in total have 28966 faces between them.</li><li>There are also 689 point entities in there somewhere, 530 of which are lights and light_spots</li></ul>And now, the in hammer view
<a href='http://www.terminus-discord.com/mouse/hammerview.gif' target='_blank'>The zoomed out hammer view</a>
<a href='http://www.terminus-discord.com/mouse/hammerview1.gif' target='_blank'>The marine start (I have to hide the rest of the map when I want to work on it)</a>

Uh-Oh · May 2004

Erm.. is that map: Hydrosity finished?

Also, 2 questions to more experienced mappers.

I've been told entities will cause lag on servers. If that is true, how many entities max, should one use in a given map (cause I know brushed based entities won't break up other brushes in terms of polygon count, so I kinda wanted to use a few func_wall and func_illusionnary to get my r_speeds as low as possible).

Also, is it true that faces covered with a texture called "null" will not be rendered? There for, you cut down on compile times and R_speeds since they are not textured or light?

Thank you for the input so far.

Mouse · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uh-Oh @ May 29 2004, 01:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Erm.. is that map: Hydrosity finished?
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> One never truely finishes a map, one just gets bored with it.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />
If by finished you mean released, then yes.

brute_force · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uh-Oh @ May 29 2004, 04:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I've been told entities will cause lag on servers. If that is true, how many entities max, should one use in a given map (cause I know brushed based entities won't break up other brushes in terms of polygon count, so I kinda wanted to use a few func_wall and func_illusionnary to get my r_speeds as low as possible).

Also, is it true that faces covered with a texture called "null" will not be rendered? There for, you cut down on compile times and R_speeds since they are not textured or light?

Thank you for the input so far.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yes. The official limit for entities is 265, I believe.

And yes, null faces will not be rendered. These are good for if you, for example, make a window looking out. You could texture the back of the window with null since no one will see it.

Katarn · May 2004

Arg !
co_basic since september 2003 (ns_basic)
ns_ became co_ .

Mouse · May 2004

afaik the entity limit is 275

brute_force · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ May 29 2004, 12:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> afaik the entity limit is 275  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yeah... where the hell did I get 265 from?

Once_Only · May 2004

Latley it seems i've been spending more time compiling than making my map!

It takes 10 minutes just for the Vis work <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' />

Its really annyoing, since sometimes I just want to make small changes and it has to compile the whole dman map -just in case- something else changed.

Lord_Maldazzar · May 2004

hm.. ns_pons is atm @:
3543 solids
21433 faces

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

hope you guys will like it, when i finished the next version.

well... it took 4 months... 2 versions, and im working on the 3rd version now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Uh-Oh · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ May 29 2004, 06:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> afaik the entity limit is 275  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
if the limit is 275... why doyou use 600ish point entities?

Also, if Null textures are helpfull, why dont we simply use null everywhere, and then texture the only visible faces...?

Me am newbier then yous all.

Good day! I say good day!

Kouji_San · May 2004

Well lights and spots (without a target name) are pointentities to but aren't runtime, just like player starts

But... Why are we continueing to repeat things which are in the FAQ and guidelines? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

brute_force · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uh-Oh @ May 29 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ May 29 2004, 06:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> afaik the entity limit is 275 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
if the limit is 275... why doyou use 600ish point entities?

Also, if Null textures are helpfull, why dont we simply use null everywhere, and then texture the only visible faces...?

Me am newbier then yous all.

Good day! I say good day!  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Because all faces touching the void are automatically removed from the map during the compile.

Uh-Oh · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShdwStal @ May 29 2004, 02:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uh-Oh @ May 29 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ May 29 2004, 06:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> afaik the entity limit is 275 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
if the limit is 275... why doyou use 600ish point entities?

Also, if Null textures are helpfull, why dont we simply use null everywhere, and then texture the only visible faces...?

Me am newbier then yous all.

Good day! I say good day! </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Because all faces touching the void are automatically removed from the map during the compile.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
So that would be a yes: ALWAYS use null textures on faces that players will never see...

By the way I did read the faq. I read alot of tutorials. I searched alot on valve-erc and other sites, but I do not know all these things by heart....
Sorry if I make you cringe if I ask you something simple. I simply might have read it in the begining, when I didn't have the requesite knowledge to know what it meant.

Kester · May 2004

its taken me the last 8 hours pretty much straight to make a cave to look decent and as realistic as i can get one on the hl engine, might post a screen later if im not too tired

How Long Does It Take You To Make A Map?

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