Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2004
well its not actually modifying. its more like fixing the screenshot to be similar to the setgamma value ingame. (unless you didn;t use this ofcourse <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
btw that highlight in the glass texture on the green tubes looks nice, just had to say it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Barathrum, no no i allready turned my monitor brightness right up, its not the lights its just for example those hive pics i cant see whats going on in them
Thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> I've attached another version of the tubes, a red one. The reflection is missaligned though.
<b>DaRk_PlAgUe</b> Hmm, ok, I see. Well it's easier to see when you move in-game and everything is in motion.
I think (form what you've shown us) that this is going to be the kinda map you can't really judge from a screenshot - you're gonna have to play it to see what its like. The architecture is interesting and some of the rooms are very well made, whereas some look like you've moved past them quickly. This is a real shame as if you could keep your work level up over the whole map you'll find a nice balance of good, sound architectural design throughout.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited May 2004
Alright I've got the time to give a full response now.
I'll start with the general problems before I go into it on a screen by screen basis.
I like the new red style. Its a nice contrast in terms of color with the outside of the ship. I think that it would look much better if it were a lot brighter though. Think about it, a group of scientists is on a lab in the bottom of the sea surrounded my millions of tons of deep dark frigid water. They are going to want the environment they are living in to be as warm and inviting as possible! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> every little bit that you make the inside brighter just makes the outside look scarier. Keep that in mind.
In general, the texture lights don't appear to be putting out enough light for their size and brightness. Are you using an env_gamma entity in your map? That alone could help quite a bit with this. (If you haven't worked with this before, the faq talks about how to correct your screenshots in photoshop to match their in game appearance when you are using an env_gamma entity.) I think you could unilaterally up the values in your lights.rad by a few hundred points and it would look a lot better. Look into using an env_gamma first though if you aren't already because that can affect the way your shots look in somewhat unpredictable ways. For instance, here are two of your shots, but modified to show the effect of an env_gamma set to 1.9. <img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rmoulton/inside.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rmoulton/outside.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I have some worries about several things related to map resources.
First of all, it looks like you are using a TON of sprites in this map. They look good, but they eat up entities, and the current maximum for official inclusion is 275 I believe. If you haven't already, look into producing the same effects with particle systems for any of the regions where you have a lot of sprites in one area. Also, see if you can replace some of them with lighting cleverly placed to produce the same effect.
Secondly, That hive shot and the spaceship look like like they are going to eat up a lot of clipnodes. Be very careful about this. You don't have many to work with and they go quickly. (Also be sure all of your areas work well with the commander view, because it looks like you have a lot of things that will need to be func_seethroughs.)
I'll go through it shot by shot now. I like style of your first three shots as I mentioned before. Think about adding light_spots in the direction that the little round lights are facing. They are perfect for it, and these shots could really use some more lighting. Also, the textures really need to be aligned better on those pipes.
The hive area looks pretty good. I like the concept. I like the look of that bundle of cables although I also thought it was a pipe initially. There are a few things I notice here. First of all, it may just be the jpeg compression but I really can't make heads or tails of the red areas of these shots. I can't tell at all what they are. The infestation seems pretty angular, and ends abruptly at the rock faces without warning. The lighting in these shots could also use some work, from a gameplay perspective if nothing else. Marines are going to blend in perfectly with that rock texture in the darkness and make spawn camping a nightmare to defend against, since the skulks aren't going to be able to make out the marines before they get shot.
As has been mentioned, the cave with tracks is mighty impressive, great atmosphere, very eery. Is that section underwater? It looks like it is, but I don't see a division between the walkway and the train area. The blue foggy look really contributes to that feeling. If it isn't underwater, you might think about making it that way conceputally with glass blocking it off, and a few particle system bubbles or something like that. Excellent work.
This spaceship looks pretty good, but I suspect that it eats up clipnodes like pacman. If you are going to use this as is, then think about surrounding this whole section with a clip brush since you mentioned (I think) that it is only visible from an overlook. The other problem here is the r_speeds. I don't think there's any way your going to get them down to acceptable levels with what you have done so far. All isn't lost though, and I don't think you should just give up and wait for halflife 2. Head over to the customization forum and see if you can get anyone to model it for you, then put it in as a cycler. It will probably end up looking better, and it won't eat up any wpolies. There may even be some tool to convert directly from what you've already made into a model, but I don't know much about that, so ask around. You also might consider getting the bundles of tubes in the hive shot made as a model because they will probably look more convincing.
Edit: clarification, the following refers to the room with the pipes and blue light These next few shots have the same problem as your first few shots in that the lights don't seem to put out enough light. Particularly the last shot. They fit well with the feel of the outside shots though, so they probably don't need to be changed much. The textures you are using on the door trim and on the sides of the walkways could be something more interesting. They appear to just be a flat grey at the moment.
Edit: clarification, this refers to the room with the green tubes I know these last shots with the tubes are works in progress but I don't think t hey are at all up to the level of the rest of your work. The lighting is relatively nonexistent and the little that is there is bland and unrealistic. The green light trim and red light trim around the base look particularly bad IMO. And the white lights along the base don't look like they belong there.
In general though I think what you've done looks really good. I hope this was helpful, and I look forward to seeing more work out of you. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Cobra^</b> Yeah, there are alot of dark areas and the architecture might seem to be complicated on the screenshots, so the only way you can really tell if you like it or not is to go in-game and play it. Yeah, but I'm far from finished with all these areas. The problem is to keep within the limits of the engine which I will probably not do if I continue like this...
<b>moultano</b> Thanks alot for your huge reply!
Yeah, I agreed with what people said in my other thread, that I should make the indoor areas different from the outdoor ones, so I gave them a red color. Hmm maybe you're right about that it should be brighter since who would really want to work in such an area...
Nope, I'm not using an env_gamma yet, won't do that before everything is finished since I would probably just mix up the gamma settings and lightning settings for each .rmf-file. Ok, thanks for the advice about changing my screenshots gamma in Photoshop so I can see how it would look like. I kinda liked your modified versions of my screenshots. Wouldn't take away the feeling and probably make it a little more balanced.
Yes, you're right about that I use alot of sprites. I do not use too many func_walls though, since I put together many objects into a single func_wall, thus I only need like 2-3 func_walls in each location. Maybe I can replace some of the sprites with lightning, yes.
Ye, you're right about that the hive and spaceship do eat alot of clipnodes and I'll probably have to cut down alot on the detail in the hive, and I'm not sure whether I'll be able to use the ship in the level at all.
<u>About the first three pictures:</u> Yeah, I think I already have lightspots there, but I'll look into it. The textures aren't aligned to 100% in any of the screenshots yet.
<u>The hive</u> Thanks. Yeah, the compression raped the pictures pretty bad <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> They are supposed to be red lightning coming out from the lab complex after the wall has been destroyed up by some large alien or something. I made them very... red, just to make it look like you get dazzled by looking at that very light red room from that very dark location. Like some kind of glow-effect.
The infestation: Well, I have tried to make it look more as if it's fading from the infestation to the rock texture by placing a solid-transparent version of the infestation between the two. Maybe the screenshots aren't showing that too well. Yeah, I'll try using the gamma-feature in Photoshop, as you told me, to see if it would look better being more lit.
<u>Cave with tracks</u> Thanks alot. Honestly, that's the area I put the least work into <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> No that section is not underwater, it's a large cave. Probably won't be able to make it underwater if I'm going to keep the map within the limits.
<u>Spaceship</u> Ye, however I'll try to tweak the textures some, they don't look too good. Yes, it's only visible from an overlook, as you said so it doesn't matter what I do to it as long as it looks real to the player. Hehe well, the overlook is at the side of a corridor. When facing forward in the corridor, the r_speeds are like 800-850, they only reach above 1000 when you turn to look at the hangar with the ship. Well, I'm not sure I'll implement this area in the map, since it's too extreme. Maybe I could ask someone to make it a model, but I'm not really the kind of person who asks others to do something like that for me. I just want to keep this as my own project. Yeah, I've heard about a tool converting these things to a model, but I don't know any more than you do.
<u>The last shots</u> Hmm do you refer to the big room with the many pipes and the blue lightning, here too? The green tuberoom isn't finished at all, I haven't really made anything serious there except the tubes. I'll look into changing the trims on the doors.
Hmm well I have a problem finding a suitable texture for the lower part of the tubes, but I haven't worked too much with it.
-----------------
Okay, thanks alot for your constructive answer, it helped alot.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Glad to help <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe I could ask someone to make it a model, but I'm not really the kind of person who asks others to do something like that for me. I just want to keep this as my own project.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I used to feel that way myself, but I've since changed my mind. For one thing, when you have more people from the community working on it, it gets more people interested in your map, which means that more people will play it when it is finally released. There are also a lot of people with different talents in this forum, and it would be a shame to let them go to waste. Its really a huge resource to draw from. Give it some thought.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+May 28 2004, 05:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ May 28 2004, 05:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Glad to help <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe I could ask someone to make it a model, but I'm not really the kind of person who asks others to do something like that for me. I just want to keep this as my own project.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I used to feel that way myself, but I've since changed my mind. For one thing, when you have more people from the community working on it, it gets more people interested in your map, which means that more people will play it when it is finally released. There are also a lot of people with different talents in this forum, and it would be a shame to let them go to waste. Its really a huge resource to draw from. Give it some thought. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> hello ill see if i can whip up a quick one and see if you like it
edit/ nevermind 3dsmax is crapping on me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>moultano</b> Ok, what you say is true, but this is a very unsure project because of the large amount of detail. It isn't very sure I'll ever release this (I have never finished one single map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) so I'm not sure I want to feel responsible to people who help.
<b>chrono5454</b> Thanks alot for your interest in helping me with that model, I hope your 3D Studio Max gets less defiant <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Barathrum+May 28 2004, 08:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Barathrum @ May 28 2004, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>moultano</b> Ok, what you say is true, but this is a very unsure project because of the large amount of detail. It isn't very sure I'll ever release this (I have never finished one single map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) so I'm not sure I want to feel responsible to people who help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> People tend not to mind in my experience. Make sure you mention that there is a possibility that it wont be released, but generally people do these things for fun. There is a whole thread in the customization forum of people making random stuff in the hope that someone will find it useful in a map. They like the process, they like the practice, and they like the compliments and critique they get from screenshots. If worst comes to worst and you don't finish the map, the model can be used in someone else's map or for some other project.
It would also be more motivation for you to finish your map <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Seriously though, there is so much potential here that it would be criminal not to get it in some playable form. Good luck!
So you ARE going to continue this map! yay! That makes me very happy. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I remember you posting about it so long ago. I'm glad you've not given up.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+May 28 2004, 05:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ May 28 2004, 05:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Barathrum+May 28 2004, 08:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Barathrum @ May 28 2004, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>moultano</b> Ok, what you say is true, but this is a very unsure project because of the large amount of detail. It isn't very sure I'll ever release this (I have never finished one single map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) so I'm not sure I want to feel responsible to people who help. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People tend not to mind in my experience. Make sure you mention that there is a possibility that it wont be released, but generally people do these things for fun. There is a whole thread in the customization forum of people making random stuff in the hope that someone will find it useful in a map. They like the process, they like the practice, and they like the compliments and critique they get from screenshots. If worst comes to worst and you don't finish the map, the model can be used in someone else's map or for some other project.
It would also be more motivation for you to finish your map <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Seriously though, there is so much potential here that it would be criminal not to get it in some playable form. Good luck! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ahh the old world models thread you mappers should check it out plenty of good work in there
dont worry Barathrum ill slap it around a bit till it gets working
i bow down to you.. that stuff is f***en amazing man... who cares if it doesnt play good hehe.. i would love to play it.
man i didnt know you can make some of that stuff in HL...
great job u must have no life <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-ZupE+May 28 2004, 06:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZupE @ May 28 2004, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh yeah... for some reason i cant figure out how to do the steam shooting out of something.. what freaken sprite is it.. its **** me off =P <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its problibly a particle system.
Wow now this is great architecture, lighting , atmosphere and that craft looks excellent. Hope it has low enough r_speeds, really looking forward to the release <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
Dang man, that map looks sweet. But it looks like your rooms are huge as hell. Isn't that going to make some problems. And the track thingy, add a lil train or something that the marines can ride. That would be really sweet.
Very very cool mapping. I would agree that the rooms may be a little too open though. It may not be a problem if you have an interesting and accesable ceiling for the skulks though.
<b>moultano</b> Hmm okay, I'll think about asking the modellers then. Yeah, I get very motivated when so many people give good comments on my screens. Thanks.
<b>Belgarion</b> Hehe yes, I'm continuing it, though I'll have to cut down alot on the detail in order to make it a full-scale ns-map.
<b>chrono5454</b> Okay, sounds great!
<b>Dead_man</b> Thanks alot.
I started it in october 2003 and I've come this far now. Have taken breaks of like a month sometimes too. So it hasn't taken me too long.
<b>ZupE</b> Hehe, thanks alot!
Hehe well the HL-engine has alot of "hidden" potentials, that's what I like with it.
My steam is made of "xsmoke1"-sprites and a particle system.
<b>Mouse</b> Yep, that's because I've made those alien egg-models a little transparent since there is a lamp lying inside the infestation whose strong lightbeam is pointed towards these eggs. Just for an additional effect.
<b>Cloist</b> Thanks, that's what I've tried to make it to be. I'll cut down on the detail so the r_speeds get acceptable.
<b>Clem</b> Thanks alot! Well, they are not too huge, since the 'cave with tracks'section's area is only that walkway, you can't get out to the tracks etc. And the hangar isn't reachable at all, it's just for eye-candy. The hive isn't too big, It's only like half the size of the large hive in ns_bast.
I'm not really sure about the train-thing you proposed. It would be cool but I don't think I would be able to keep within the engine's limits nor the gameplay's if I made that one.
<b>kolokol</b> Thanks alot. Well not all of the areas are reachable and I've used "trigger_push"s to limit the accessability of some areas.
<b>Cobra^</b> Hmm, thanks. I guess you're kinda right about that people might get lost. But if I put something in some vents, like a special landmark or something for some vents, it might work.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2004
All I want to see is a central fan or maybe blocked of passages in the vents so it looks like they are part of a larger ventilation system, even the official maps don't have that <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This map is a nice enough without it, but realism and cinematic effects, interactivity, goodlooks and cookies score very high with me.
<b>Kouji San</b> Yeah, I agree with you, but the problem is that these kind of maps are already pushing the limits of the engine so it's hard to make these kinds of maps very detailed overall. But I'll do the best I can <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
btw that highlight in the glass texture on the green tubes looks nice, just had to say it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ok, that, I haven't done <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> I've attached another version of the tubes, a red one. The reflection is missaligned though.
<b>DaRk_PlAgUe</b>
Hmm, ok, I see. Well it's easier to see when you move in-game and everything is in motion.
I'll start with the general problems before I go into it on a screen by screen basis.
I like the new red style. Its a nice contrast in terms of color with the outside of the ship. I think that it would look much better if it were a lot brighter though. Think about it, a group of scientists is on a lab in the bottom of the sea surrounded my millions of tons of deep dark frigid water. They are going to want the environment they are living in to be as warm and inviting as possible! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> every little bit that you make the inside brighter just makes the outside look scarier. Keep that in mind.
In general, the texture lights don't appear to be putting out enough light for their size and brightness. Are you using an env_gamma entity in your map? That alone could help quite a bit with this. (If you haven't worked with this before, the faq talks about how to correct your screenshots in photoshop to match their in game appearance when you are using an env_gamma entity.) I think you could unilaterally up the values in your lights.rad by a few hundred points and it would look a lot better. Look into using an env_gamma first though if you aren't already because that can affect the way your shots look in somewhat unpredictable ways.
For instance, here are two of your shots, but modified to show the effect of an env_gamma set to 1.9.
<img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rmoulton/inside.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rmoulton/outside.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I have some worries about several things related to map resources.
First of all, it looks like you are using a TON of sprites in this map. They look good, but they eat up entities, and the current maximum for official inclusion is 275 I believe. If you haven't already, look into producing the same effects with particle systems for any of the regions where you have a lot of sprites in one area. Also, see if you can replace some of them with lighting cleverly placed to produce the same effect.
Secondly, That hive shot and the spaceship look like like they are going to eat up a lot of clipnodes. Be very careful about this. You don't have many to work with and they go quickly. (Also be sure all of your areas work well with the commander view, because it looks like you have a lot of things that will need to be func_seethroughs.)
I'll go through it shot by shot now.
I like style of your first three shots as I mentioned before. Think about adding light_spots in the direction that the little round lights are facing. They are perfect for it, and these shots could really use some more lighting. Also, the textures really need to be aligned better on those pipes.
The hive area looks pretty good. I like the concept. I like the look of that bundle of cables although I also thought it was a pipe initially. There are a few things I notice here. First of all, it may just be the jpeg compression but I really can't make heads or tails of the red areas of these shots. I can't tell at all what they are. The infestation seems pretty angular, and ends abruptly at the rock faces without warning. The lighting in these shots could also use some work, from a gameplay perspective if nothing else. Marines are going to blend in perfectly with that rock texture in the darkness and make spawn camping a nightmare to defend against, since the skulks aren't going to be able to make out the marines before they get shot.
As has been mentioned, the cave with tracks is mighty impressive, great atmosphere, very eery. Is that section underwater? It looks like it is, but I don't see a division between the walkway and the train area. The blue foggy look really contributes to that feeling. If it isn't underwater, you might think about making it that way conceputally with glass blocking it off, and a few particle system bubbles or something like that. Excellent work.
This spaceship looks pretty good, but I suspect that it eats up clipnodes like pacman. If you are going to use this as is, then think about surrounding this whole section with a clip brush since you mentioned (I think) that it is only visible from an overlook. The other problem here is the r_speeds. I don't think there's any way your going to get them down to acceptable levels with what you have done so far. All isn't lost though, and I don't think you should just give up and wait for halflife 2. Head over to the customization forum and see if you can get anyone to model it for you, then put it in as a cycler. It will probably end up looking better, and it won't eat up any wpolies. There may even be some tool to convert directly from what you've already made into a model, but I don't know much about that, so ask around. You also might consider getting the bundles of tubes in the hive shot made as a model because they will probably look more convincing.
Edit: clarification, the following refers to the room with the pipes and blue light
These next few shots have the same problem as your first few shots in that the lights don't seem to put out enough light. Particularly the last shot. They fit well with the feel of the outside shots though, so they probably don't need to be changed much. The textures you are using on the door trim and on the sides of the walkways could be something more interesting. They appear to just be a flat grey at the moment.
Edit: clarification, this refers to the room with the green tubes
I know these last shots with the tubes are works in progress but I don't think t
hey are at all up to the level of the rest of your work. The lighting is relatively nonexistent and the little that is there is bland and unrealistic. The green light trim and red light trim around the base look particularly bad IMO. And the white lights along the base don't look like they belong there.
In general though I think what you've done looks really good. I hope this was helpful, and I look forward to seeing more work out of you. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'll post comments on the layout later.
Yeah, there are alot of dark areas and the architecture might seem to be complicated on the screenshots, so the only way you can really tell if you like it or not is to go in-game and play it. Yeah, but I'm far from finished with all these areas. The problem is to keep within the limits of the engine which I will probably not do if I continue like this...
<b>moultano</b>
Thanks alot for your huge reply!
Yeah, I agreed with what people said in my other thread, that I should make the indoor areas different from the outdoor ones, so I gave them a red color. Hmm maybe you're right about that it should be brighter since who would really want to work in such an area...
Nope, I'm not using an env_gamma yet, won't do that before everything is finished since I would probably just mix up the gamma settings and lightning settings for each .rmf-file. Ok, thanks for the advice about changing my screenshots gamma in Photoshop so I can see how it would look like. I kinda liked your modified versions of my screenshots. Wouldn't take away the feeling and probably make it a little more balanced.
Yes, you're right about that I use alot of sprites. I do not use too many func_walls though, since I put together many objects into a single func_wall, thus I only need like 2-3 func_walls in each location. Maybe I can replace some of the sprites with lightning, yes.
Ye, you're right about that the hive and spaceship do eat alot of clipnodes and I'll probably have to cut down alot on the detail in the hive, and I'm not sure whether I'll be able to use the ship in the level at all.
<u>About the first three pictures:</u>
Yeah, I think I already have lightspots there, but I'll look into it. The textures aren't aligned to 100% in any of the screenshots yet.
<u>The hive</u>
Thanks. Yeah, the compression raped the pictures pretty bad <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> They are supposed to be red lightning coming out from the lab complex after the wall has been destroyed up by some large alien or something. I made them very... red, just to make it look like you get dazzled by looking at that very light red room from that very dark location. Like some kind of glow-effect.
The infestation: Well, I have tried to make it look more as if it's fading from the infestation to the rock texture by placing a solid-transparent version of the infestation between the two. Maybe the screenshots aren't showing that too well. Yeah, I'll try using the gamma-feature in Photoshop, as you told me, to see if it would look better being more lit.
<u>Cave with tracks</u>
Thanks alot. Honestly, that's the area I put the least work into <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> No that section is not underwater, it's a large cave. Probably won't be able to make it underwater if I'm going to keep the map within the limits.
<u>Spaceship</u>
Ye, however I'll try to tweak the textures some, they don't look too good. Yes, it's only visible from an overlook, as you said so it doesn't matter what I do to it as long as it looks real to the player. Hehe well, the overlook is at the side of a corridor. When facing forward in the corridor, the r_speeds are like 800-850, they only reach above 1000 when you turn to look at the hangar with the ship. Well, I'm not sure I'll implement this area in the map, since it's too extreme. Maybe I could ask someone to make it a model, but I'm not really the kind of person who asks others to do something like that for me. I just want to keep this as my own project. Yeah, I've heard about a tool converting these things to a model, but I don't know any more than you do.
<u>The last shots</u>
Hmm do you refer to the big room with the many pipes and the blue lightning, here too? The green tuberoom isn't finished at all, I haven't really made anything serious there except the tubes. I'll look into changing the trims on the doors.
Hmm well I have a problem finding a suitable texture for the lower part of the tubes, but I haven't worked too much with it.
-----------------
Okay, thanks alot for your constructive answer, it helped alot.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe I could ask someone to make it a model, but I'm not really the kind of person who asks others to do something like that for me. I just want to keep this as my own project.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used to feel that way myself, but I've since changed my mind. For one thing, when you have more people from the community working on it, it gets more people interested in your map, which means that more people will play it when it is finally released. There are also a lot of people with different talents in this forum, and it would be a shame to let them go to waste. Its really a huge resource to draw from. Give it some thought.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe I could ask someone to make it a model, but I'm not really the kind of person who asks others to do something like that for me. I just want to keep this as my own project.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used to feel that way myself, but I've since changed my mind. For one thing, when you have more people from the community working on it, it gets more people interested in your map, which means that more people will play it when it is finally released. There are also a lot of people with different talents in this forum, and it would be a shame to let them go to waste. Its really a huge resource to draw from. Give it some thought. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> hello ill see if i can whip up a quick one and see if you like it
edit/ nevermind 3dsmax is crapping on me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ok, what you say is true, but this is a very unsure project because of the large amount of detail. It isn't very sure I'll ever release this (I have never finished one single map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) so I'm not sure I want to feel responsible to people who help.
<b>chrono5454</b>
Thanks alot for your interest in helping me with that model, I hope your 3D Studio Max gets less defiant <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ok, what you say is true, but this is a very unsure project because of the large amount of detail. It isn't very sure I'll ever release this (I have never finished one single map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) so I'm not sure I want to feel responsible to people who help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
People tend not to mind in my experience. Make sure you mention that there is a possibility that it wont be released, but generally people do these things for fun. There is a whole thread in the customization forum of people making random stuff in the hope that someone will find it useful in a map. They like the process, they like the practice, and they like the compliments and critique they get from screenshots. If worst comes to worst and you don't finish the map, the model can be used in someone else's map or for some other project.
It would also be more motivation for you to finish your map <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Seriously though, there is so much potential here that it would be criminal not to get it in some playable form. Good luck!
I remember you posting about it so long ago. I'm glad you've not given up.
Ok, what you say is true, but this is a very unsure project because of the large amount of detail. It isn't very sure I'll ever release this (I have never finished one single map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) so I'm not sure I want to feel responsible to people who help. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People tend not to mind in my experience. Make sure you mention that there is a possibility that it wont be released, but generally people do these things for fun. There is a whole thread in the customization forum of people making random stuff in the hope that someone will find it useful in a map. They like the process, they like the practice, and they like the compliments and critique they get from screenshots. If worst comes to worst and you don't finish the map, the model can be used in someone else's map or for some other project.
It would also be more motivation for you to finish your map <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Seriously though, there is so much potential here that it would be criminal not to get it in some playable form. Good luck! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ahh the old world models thread you mappers should check it out plenty of good work in there
dont worry Barathrum ill slap it around a bit till it gets working
May I ask how long this has taken you to do?
man i didnt know you can make some of that stuff in HL...
great job u must have no life <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is there some advantage to giving brushes the Glow rendermode or did you just do that by mistake?
Its problibly a particle system.
Hope it has low enough r_speeds, really looking forward to the release <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
im kinda getting bored of the normal ns look so this will be a change =)
And the track thingy, add a lil train or something that the marines can ride. That would be really sweet.
Hmm okay, I'll think about asking the modellers then. Yeah, I get very motivated when so many people give good comments on my screens. Thanks.
<b>Belgarion</b>
Hehe yes, I'm continuing it, though I'll have to cut down alot on the detail in order to make it a full-scale ns-map.
<b>chrono5454</b>
Okay, sounds great!
<b>Dead_man</b>
Thanks alot.
I started it in october 2003 and I've come this far now. Have taken breaks of like a month sometimes too. So it hasn't taken me too long.
<b>ZupE</b>
Hehe, thanks alot!
Hehe well the HL-engine has alot of "hidden" potentials, that's what I like with it.
My steam is made of "xsmoke1"-sprites and a particle system.
<b>Mouse</b>
Yep, that's because I've made those alien egg-models a little transparent since there is a lamp lying inside the infestation whose strong lightbeam is pointed towards these eggs. Just for an additional effect.
<b>Cloist</b>
Thanks, that's what I've tried to make it to be.
I'll cut down on the detail so the r_speeds get acceptable.
<b>Clem</b>
Thanks alot! Well, they are not too huge, since the 'cave with tracks'section's area is only that walkway, you can't get out to the tracks etc. And the hangar isn't reachable at all, it's just for eye-candy. The hive isn't too big, It's only like half the size of the large hive in ns_bast.
I'm not really sure about the train-thing you proposed. It would be cool but I don't think I would be able to keep within the engine's limits nor the gameplay's if I made that one.
<b>kolokol</b>
Thanks alot. Well not all of the areas are reachable and I've used "trigger_push"s to limit the accessability of some areas.
this is one sweet arse map
Bridges = win
pit of dewm = win
Hmm, thanks. I guess you're kinda right about that people might get lost. But if I put something in some vents, like a special landmark or something for some vents, it might work.
<b>raz0r</b>
Thanks alot <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This map is a nice enough without it, but realism and cinematic effects, interactivity, goodlooks and cookies score very high with me.
Yeah, I agree with you, but the problem is that these kind of maps are already pushing the limits of the engine so it's hard to make these kinds of maps very detailed overall. But I'll do the best I can <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->