How Not To Be A Game Dev

kuperaye · May 2004

rofl i would never play ps

[WHO]Them · May 2004

It should be mentioned that sometimes you HAVE to ignore your customers even if the majority actually DOES want what some are asking for.

Case in point, how many games have you played nonstop right up until the end and then never touched again?

You absolutely wanted the next big gun or armor upgrade. You loved them when you got them. But the big gun and the super armor will slowly degrade your experience from the game. Like a drug addict that has to keep pumping up the dosage to get the same fix.

Sometimes you have to deny what people want the most so that they'll still keep playing in the long run.

This however is NOT the case with the newest PS problems. That's just them being dumb as far as I can tell.

That_Annoying_Kid · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (smokejumper@planetside forums)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
...I wasn't in the office all night.

Folks...check the time stamps. If it's been less than 24 hours since my last post, it's absolutely conceivable that I haven't seen your post yet. Sometimes, I'm a forum wh*re just like you folks, but other times, I get busy with that work stuff (or even having a day off on the weekend) and I won't see your concerns right away.

I *do* want to hear your feedback and will try to comment where I may. But don't get angry if you don't hear back right away. Lack of response is NOT the same as you being ignored. It just means we're busy.

<b>We watch. Always. </b>
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

keep the bold in mind

Geminosity · May 2004

so that's why they went and released it live after that thread anyways? =P

He wasn't kidding about the NC popultation/territory either. I've never seen such overwhelming numbers since... uh... smash TV o.O

Nil_IQ · May 2004

Yeah, I didn't mean to put anyone off planetside, it is truly a rawrsome game, but the devs really don't have a clue what they're doing. The fact remains that there is no other game which offers the same kind of gameplay.

If someone were to essentially make a planetside clone but with better voicecomm support (everyone uses a 3rd party program- but we shouldn't have to), less of the "hey we took the base hey they took it back" factor, and, what the hell, maybe battlemechs, I would be there so fast.

But as it is, planetside is the best MMOFPS out there. I'm not quitting PS permanently, just until the devs get their heads out of their rectal cavities. If this does not happen, well, i've got a 2-week free trial for eve online to use up...

pardzh · May 2004

Someone at my old EQ forum had a sig with SOE's logo, kinda vertical-ish.

Like:

<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>S</span></b> crew
<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></b> ur
<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>E</span></b> ndusers

I thought it was funny.

Geminosity · May 2004

It'd be funnier if it wasn't so scarily true duff ^~

Cronos · May 2004

Let me just say that some perfectly good ideas have indeed come out of S&I, such as unchaining hive evolutions, moving AR to a new slot and even making sensory more powerful such that it could supplant the DC first rule (although DC still comes first as always, it no longer completely pwns aliens if sens goes first).

99% of all ideas ARE utter crap. 0.9% are unviable (Balance, engine limitations etc) and that rare 0.1% are GOOD ideas. The devs need to keep their ears open to hear that 0.1% against the 99% roar of crap.

Had the NS devs not listened way back when, hive evolutions may still have been chained and NS would have been drastically different (for better or worse, who knows).

By all means listen to criticism but know what advice to take and what to leave. Common sense people, yeesh.

Oh, and uh, anyone wanna give me a bit of a grounding in PlanetSide?

Narfwak · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ May 28 2004, 07:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Let me just say that some perfectly good ideas have indeed come out of S&I, such as unchaining hive evolutions, moving AR to a new slot and even making sensory more powerful such that it could supplant the DC first rule (although DC still comes first as always, it no longer completely pwns aliens if sens goes first). </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Those ideas came from the vets. Sorry, but they did do some good. Hand grenades came from I&S. 'Nuff said.

Beta testers are good for feature development and first-line bug fixing and balance testing. Public testers are good for the majority of bug testing, and getting better stats for balancing.

Stakhanov · May 2004

The state of the I&S forum shows a failure in moderation , Nem0 and Talesin are the only remaining admins who still care about it a bit and lock a few useless threads sometimes , and everyone is bored to death by redundant and repetitive requests (euphemism)

I&S regulars still prevent the best concepts from falling into oblivion , yet even the smallest , easiest and most needed changes are never considered. I doubt such an autistic attitude is good for Flayra's game... now we have the hand grenades back from the alpha stages of NS , only with a pretty model , while people grow bored of NS much faster than before (worst state of the game since the 1.04 JP HMG era , imho)

Mantrid · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ May 28 2004, 04:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Jeff was equally disappointed when the suggestion to make all Nazi's robots in CoD that fire bees from their mouths, was shot down.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Sig'd!

Anyway, the statements about the I&S forum are completely true. I have to wonder if the Developers read it for any reason besides getting a few laughs.

That_Annoying_Kid · May 2004

I've been saving this quote for a rainy day, or a scenario like this thread ^_~

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (not me@some time around 2.0)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Posting in the suggestion forums is like sitting in a bathroom stall where the person next to you is taking a huge, nasty poo. Everyone knows it's there but they try to ignore it to the best of their ability </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Narfwak · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (That Annoying Kid @ May 29 2004, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I've been saving this quote for a rainy day, or a scenario like this thread ^_~

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (not me@some time around 2.0)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Posting in the suggestion forums is like sitting in a bathroom stall where the person next to you is taking a huge, nasty poo. Everyone knows it's there but they try to ignore it to the best of their ability </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Gold.

SkulkBait · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ May 28 2004, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I&S regulars still prevent the best concepts from falling into oblivion , yet even the smallest , easiest and most needed changes are never considered. I doubt such an autistic attitude is good for Flayra's game... now we have the hand grenades back from the alpha stages of NS , only with a pretty model , while people grow bored of NS much faster than before (worst state of the game since the 1.04 JP HMG era , imho)  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Some really good stuff has come out of the I&S forums, most of it had to be done in Voogru before it was really considered though (Sens chambers cloaking neerby stuff, armories giving health, ect).

Nil_IQ · May 2004

O.k, this thread is probably going to die shortly so i'm just going to add this.

While the Thunderer is truly a monstrosity, and the dev team are on a week's holiday so we're stuck with it for at least another 5 days, this was actually a bloody awesome patch otherwise.

The two greatest changes in the patch are:

1. Load times cut in half, in HALF! (they were pretty damn horrible before)
2. Game no longer freezes every time I open a door! (due to the same code optimisation fix)
3. Lock-on weapons actually lock on more than 50% of the time! My Striker is no longer useless!

I should also add that there has been a pretty much universal agreement by the TR and VS to only attack the NC and not each other until the Thunderer is nerfed. As a result the NC are now currently losing on all 3 servers, haf haf.

Now it would be truly ironic if the devs took that to mean the NC are underpowered and buffed the Thunderer even more...

Epidemic · May 2004

From what I've read the post and discussion were actually pretty sensible.

Narfwak -> There is no beginning on these suggestions, I think every one had had atleast one of them at a time, the reason you say it was from the vet forum is probably because that's the only forum flayra even bothers to read..I mean, what mastermind thought of unchaining the evolution? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> But to use it to prove I&S is a bunch of clueless noobs is just wrong..

xioutlawix · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ May 28 2004, 07:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And if your target playerbase wants electric landworms and Nazi robots that shoot bees from their mouths, then you'd better give it to them, because believe it or not, other people know what they want better than you do. If I were to make a Diablo clone and I completely ignored the Diablo fanbase, how well do you think my game would sell?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
But if said playerbase says, "omG teH BeeZ are 2 w3ak, BuFF them!"
And another side says "teH roBot nAziS neEd killEr LaSer NerFFS!"

The public will, on its own if left to it, break the balance of any game. Its evident in any game you play that there will always be whiners moaning about how imbalanced tactic ____ is. In this case however, it seems the devs have taken the mentality that its better to toss it in and fix it later should problems arise.
In most cases however, when a company actually knows what its doing, its usually beneficial to ignore the community for a good amount of time in so far as balance goes, giving them time to settle in and finally adapt to unbeatable tactic ____.

Quaunaut · May 2004

This kinda saddens me. The way Planetside COULD go out could be downright incredible. But if their patch balancing is this bad....forget it.

Hydra · May 2004

I was gonna post some sympathy... but I can't muster any up for that dev team =/.

Surge · May 2004

<a href='http://www.interplay.com' target='_blank'>*Cough cough*</a>

Ninja Edit: It would appear their site is down... how ironic.

Obliterater · May 2004

I understand there not listning very much to the public because of stupid ideas, but implementing a weapon that obviously much more powerfull then any countering weapon, giving it to only one side and ignoring the testers when they tell you this just doesnt make sense.

It would be like giving Heavy Armors the ability to dual wield HMG's and making parasite do a little more damage to balance it.

docchimpy · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Obliterater @ May 29 2004, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I understand there not listning very much to the public because of stupid ideas, but implementing a weapon that obviously much more powerfull then any countering weapon, giving it to only one side and ignoring the testers when they tell you this just doesnt make sense.

It would be like giving Heavy Armors the ability to dual wield HMG's and making parasite do a little more damage to balance it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yes. Heavies need the ability to do that.

heheheherheehehehehehehheeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh

In other news, the release of the "Transport of the Gods Themselves" is more imitating an actual war between three sides. If Side A comes up with an awesome new technology that is nigh unstopabble and no one else knows how to copy it, sides B and C will be forced to ally with each other to stop Side A.

OT: Nil-you mind sending me one of those ten day trial thingies? I'd like to see this tranport in action.

ElectricSheep · May 2004

Ouch, reminds me of ye ould JP HMG.

ZiGGY · May 2004

Embrace mathematics you heathens!

Epidemic · May 2004

I'd like 10 days trial as well... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Maveric · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ May 28 2004, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 99% of all ideas ARE utter crap. 0.9% are unviable (Balance, engine limitations etc) and that rare 0.1% are GOOD ideas. The devs need to keep their ears open to hear that 0.1% against the 99% roar of crap. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Unfortunetly, that 99.9% can easilly drown out that <i>mere whisper</i> of the 0.1%

However, with that number there <i>could</i> be out of 999 posts, 1 good idea...
Unfortunetly, that 1 post is lost in a sea of uselessness, possibly forever. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

docchimpy you might be onto something. combine VS and TR, but keep their side-selection different; they'd be [true] allies, [working together as a double-team to defeat the rebels! hey! a possible story line! OMG!] Of course, i bet the devs would ignore that idea, too. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />

Grendel · May 2004

If your Beta test group aren't worth listening to, then it is the studio, or the HR department that is at fault.

As the saying goes:

"If a playtester makes stupid suggestions a lot, he's a retard. If he goes on making them, <b>you</b> are the retard for employing him."

Just as a side note:

Now that people know how to play the damn game, it would be interesting to see how people manage playing the ORIGINAL and UNPATCHED version of NS.

i.e. 1.0, not JPtastic 1.04.

Fieari · May 2004

Err, you mean the version where marines got unlimited resources and could turret farm their way inch by inch across the entire map, starting from their base? Or 1.03, where seiges and grenades did no damage? I seem to remember 1.01 and 1.02 having some nasty little bugs as well, but I can't remember exactly what they were.

Grendel · June 2004

In two years, I can only think of one decent suggestion that has appeared in I&S that hasn't already appeared, better described and spelt, in the Playtesting forum.

One. In two years. And whilst a decent suggestion, something very similar to it was tried around RC6 of pre 1.0 NS testing.

I&S is a good place to divert some of the tosh that goes into the general forum to. Nothing more.

Grendel · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ May 30 2004, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Err, you mean the version where marines got unlimited resources and could turret farm their way inch by inch across the entire map, starting from their base? Or 1.03, where seiges and grenades did no damage? I seem to remember 1.01 and 1.02 having some nasty little bugs as well, but I can't remember exactly what they were.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The last version of NS that us playtesters played did not exhibit any of the bugs that appeared in the final downloadable version.

Point your finger of scorn somewhere else.

How Not To Be A Game Dev

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