Regeneration Too Good?
Entropiua
Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15736Members
Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15736Members
<div class="IPBDescription">...compared to cara and redemp</div> Is it just me, or is Regeneration the favored D evolution for almost all classes?
Skulks, when they get D evolutions at all, sometimes get cara at high hive counts. They're an exception.
Lerks almost always get regeneration.
Fades almost always get regeneration.
Gorges usually get regeneration, but sometimes redemption.
Oni almost always get regeneration--redemption oni really aren't that much of a threat.
... I think the three D evolutions should be tweaked so there's incentive for every class to get each choice. Some of the following ideas (not all together!) might work:
--Regeneration only goes at a fraction of the rate if you have taken damage from anything other than electricity in the last N (=~5) seconds.
--Regeneration heals at 1/3 (or 1/4) the current rate initially, but increases linearly with time-since-last-damage. For instance: 10 hp, 20 hp, 30 hp... player takes damage, back to 10... 20...
--Regeneration, rather than healing proportional to your max hp, heals an amount proportional to its square root ... so oni take a bit longer than current and skulks take much less than current (two or three gloops) to heal.
--Carapace, rather than behaving as it does now where it gives a flat bonus to durability for all forms of attack, subtracts a certain amount from the damage received from each shot.
--Carapace gives more armor.
Skulks, when they get D evolutions at all, sometimes get cara at high hive counts. They're an exception.
Lerks almost always get regeneration.
Fades almost always get regeneration.
Gorges usually get regeneration, but sometimes redemption.
Oni almost always get regeneration--redemption oni really aren't that much of a threat.
... I think the three D evolutions should be tweaked so there's incentive for every class to get each choice. Some of the following ideas (not all together!) might work:
--Regeneration only goes at a fraction of the rate if you have taken damage from anything other than electricity in the last N (=~5) seconds.
--Regeneration heals at 1/3 (or 1/4) the current rate initially, but increases linearly with time-since-last-damage. For instance: 10 hp, 20 hp, 30 hp... player takes damage, back to 10... 20...
--Regeneration, rather than healing proportional to your max hp, heals an amount proportional to its square root ... so oni take a bit longer than current and skulks take much less than current (two or three gloops) to heal.
--Carapace, rather than behaving as it does now where it gives a flat bonus to durability for all forms of attack, subtracts a certain amount from the damage received from each shot.
--Carapace gives more armor.
Comments
For regen just remove the fixed % regen and make it a decided upon balanced number for each life form.
Redepmtion needs to trigger based on (life+armour)/(total armour+life) rather than just life, as with the 3.0 armour system that just doesn't work.
Carapace should give a bit more armour to lerks, gorges and skulks.
I get Carapiece as a Skulk if we have Movement chambers. (Carapiece + Celerity = I can get back to the hive or nearest DC to heal no problem)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lerks almost always get regeneration.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh.. I always get Carapiece.. I can get back to the hive to heal, again, no problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fades almost always get regeneration.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again.. I only get Regen in combat games, because I run once my armor drops to 100 (50 without Cara, 150 wtih cara that is lost) and can use meta to heal it np or get to a DC/hive with blink fast.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gorges usually get regeneration, but sometimes redemption.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never get Regen as a gorge.. I get Redemption or Carapiece. Usually Redemption. Carapiece if I'm fighting around the team and not off building.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oni almost always get regeneration--redemption oni really aren't that much of a threat.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cara/Celeiry if there is a battle gorge player on the team is far more useful imo...
All I see is you proposing nerfs to make other things more viable.. Sounds more like what a Marine would ask for =/
Redemption has been nerfed enough that it rarely works (they had it working near 100% in one of the betas and decided it was too powerful so they took it to the opposite extreme).
Fix carapace and redemption and people will use them.
I think carapace should give about 400 more armor for onos for being worth
better suggestion : carapace gives +% per hive...
1 hive -> 150 AP for onos
2 hives -> 250 AP for onos
3 hives - > 450 AP for onos
and on...
I would say cara and redemption are weak when compared to regen. Buff them both and they will be used more.
Though it does suck as a marine when a redem Fade redeems. If it happened more often it'd be annoying.
And as a gorge, you've got the choice between healing 13 hp every 2 seconds, or taking an additional 100 along with you. Cara gorge is quite sturdy.
Cara fade is QUITE powerful, and quite useful on smaller maps.
Cara skulk... well, if you're going to upgrade the skulk, it's the best choice.
Cara onos sucks.
On how many hives you have and how many weapon levels the marines have.
Lies. I have been insta-gibbed numerous times by a single shot (even by a lv1 pistol).
Nancy, mess hall corridor, full speed ahead, bang, mayday-mayday. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just know that it isn't fun at all.
As long as there's no reliable means of healing outside a hive, carapace will not be a widely used upgrade. Higher life forms are too valuable to end up far from the hive and in the red and have no way to heal because they got surprised.
I would say cara and redemption are weak when compared to regen. Buff them both and they will be used more. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exaxly my thought, asnd someone have in their sig, Don't balance with nerfs, Balance with buffs. And thats a good way of thinking.
But seriously, I dont think regen is overpowered, its just the most practical, I cant tell you how many time ive been going around with 50 hp as a fade and ran into a shotgunner when i have cara.
Just as a note, regeneration rewards longevity with longevity. Meaning, an onos gets more out of regeneration than a skulk does, because marine weapons obviously don't scale to alien xenoform size.
An onos being torn to pieces by level 3 HMG marines will probably get more out of carapace, actually. We need somebody who knows how to do the math here... does anybody remember the math behind the armor absorption rates and the armor blocking rates? The damage simulator doesn't do regeneration. We also would need to know how long it is in-between regeneration ticks.
good idea
Right now I take regen over cara any time of the day...cara on anything except an onos is pretty much a joke...
Honestly, there are quite a few things that'd be better off if reverted to older settings...fine, alternate options have been implemented and tried, but just cause it's changed doesn't mean that it's for the better...at least it was tried tho =\
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Exaxly my thought, asnd someone have in their sig, Don't balance with nerfs, Balance with buffs. And thats a good way of thinking.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OT: Just want to point out that balance-wise, buffing and nerfing are both good approaches. After all, buffing something is equivalent to nerfing everything else, and vice versa. The only difference is psychological - only the idiots don't realize that everything that can be accomplished by buffing can also be accomplished by nerfing.