Ns_enceladus

Sir_Pepe · June 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">release</div> Well, not much to say, except that everything in the map may change in future versions. Let the screenshots do the talking:

<a href='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/02.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/tn_02.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> <a href='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/04.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/tn_04.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>

<a href='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/05.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/tn_05.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> <a href='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/09.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/tn_09.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>

<a href='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/11.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/tn_11.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> <a href='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/12.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.planet-pepe.net/stuff/~nsworld/ns_enceladus/tn_12.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>

More screenshots & download link as usual on <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/Map.php?UniqueID=358' target='_blank'><b>NS World</b></a>

Enjoy, and don't forget to set r_detailtextures to 1 for this map <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

Coblet · June 2004

Please let me touch you <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

Recoup · June 2004

NICE! Wow, just... NI-HI-HICE!

Tequila · June 2004

Joy to the world!

Yamazaki · June 2004

Looks really nice, however... my framerate in this map is horrible.

I can play all the other NS maps at a steady 60 fps (I have v-sync on), even with detailtextures enabled and particle systems on screen... yet this map gives me 20-30fps.

1. It's not the r_speeds, those are under the limits.
2. It's not the visible particle systems, since the framerate is consistently low in all areas.
3. It's not the detail textures, since I turned them off and didn't notice any increase in FPS.
4. It's not my computer, it's an Athlon 2ghz with Geforce3 card, and I run the other maps at 60fps.

Only thing I can think of is that you might be overdoing some sound effects, or there's a lot of entity activity (Not sure exactly).

Jean_Luc_Picard · June 2004

Maybe he needs to use more stuff like vis blockers? I recently learned DOORS do not block vis... so, intead of weirdly placed boxes, I found useing double doors (2 at either end of a hallway) and making the left one on one end, and the right one on the other end, NOT actual doors (as in, just normal BRUSHES) it blocks vis allright!

DarkSeraph · June 2004

just for user ease, you might wanna change the zip to extract to the nsp folder, not the half-life folder. *shrug*

a feat in architecture to be sure, the layout is kind of wierd. SO many weld points

we can make the end of corridors just turn, and not end in ANOTHER door we can't open, so many doors that don't work.

in the hallways around the hives the "infested" textures get very repetitive.

on the FPS issue, i don't know what it is either, i get 20-40 when w-polys are 400. whereas on my map i get 60fps when my w-polys are 1100 (i really need someone with a crappy computer to test that for me, even though my map is nowhere close to finished) i have AMD2400+XP nvidia mx440

btw, i am NOT bashing your map, you did an AWESOME job, i'm just trying to give helpful criticism, i hope others do the same for me.

edit: would r_detailtextures 1 be doin it?

Yamazaki · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jean Luc Picard @ Jun 15 2004, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Maybe he needs to use more stuff like vis blockers? I recently learned DOORS do not block vis... so, intead of weirdly placed boxes, I found useing double doors (2 at either end of a hallway) and making the left one on one end, and the right one on the other end, NOT actual doors (as in, just normal BRUSHES) it blocks vis allright!  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I did mention r_speeds, it stands for rendering speeds and is a console command that shows how many world polygons are visible at one time. His VIS blocking is fine, otherwise his r_speeds would be over the 800 limit.

Chrono · June 2004

very nice work right there <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' />

Lazer · June 2004

The map is beautiful. The hives feel so atmospheric too. Everything is great except for a couple things:
-The FPS issue. (What could be causing this?)
-So many doors you can't use. (I say put a little red light next to them to mark their locked status)

Mendasp · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Jun 15 2004, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> -The FPS issue. (What could be causing this?)  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Using more than 6 megs of lightdata on Cagey's tools. It's a possibility, there were reports that it gave poor framerates because of that...

Naigel · June 2004

I want to play!! But my steam is not working at the moment...

/me cries.

kolokol · June 2004

I like it. The layout is extremely original i can't wait to see how it plays. Permission to try and persuade some people to play test it. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Coblet · June 2004

For those worried of entities:

NATURAL-SELECTION BSP REPORTER

Written by Philip Searle (Version 1.1; 07032004)
Guidelines v2.2.0, Last updated February 6, 2004

================================================================================
G E N E R A L
================================================================================

Map ns_enceladus.bsp
Game Natural-Selection
Mode Classic

================================================================================
E N T I T Y R E P O R T
================================================================================

Entity summary
Number Type
---------------------------------
337 Non-runtime
232 Runtime (this is the one that counts)
---------------------------------
569 Total

Entity breakdown by classname
Total Non-runtime Runtime Classname
---------------------------------------------------------
45 0 45 func_illusionary
29 0 29 func_seethrough
24 0 24 cycler_weapon
20 0 20 env_particles_custom
15 0 15 func_wall
14 0 14 ambient_generic
11 0 11 func_conveyor
11 0 11 target_mp3audio
10 0 10 func_door
9 0 9 func_resource
8 0 8 func_weldable
7 0 7 env_sprite
5 0 5 func_ladder
3 0 3 cycler
3 0 3 team_hive
2 0 2 func_breakable
2 0 2 func_wall_toggle
2 0 2 info_join_team
2 0 2 trigger_hurt
1 0 1 env_gamma
1 0 1 env_render
1 0 1 func_button
1 0 1 func_door_rotating
1 0 1 info_gameplay
1 0 1 info_join_autoassign
1 0 1 info_mapinfo
1 0 1 info_spectate
1 0 1 team_command
1 0 1 worldspawn
94 94 0 light
89 89 0 light_spot
64 64 0 info_team_start
57 57 0 info_location
32 32 0 info_player_start
1 1 0 info_texlights

================================================================================
G U I D E L I N E C O N F O R M A N C E
================================================================================

Required entities
Expected Found Result Classname
---------------------------------------------------------
1 1 PASS info_mapinfo
32 32 PASS info_player_start
= 1 = 1 PASS info_join_team (marine)
= 1 = 1 PASS info_join_team (alien)
= 1 1 PASS info_spectate
= 1 1 PASS info_join_autoassign
3 3 PASS team_hive
1 1 PASS team_command
0 0 PASS team_armory
= 4 9 PASS func_resource
16 16 PASS info_team_start (marine)
48 48 PASS info_team_start (alien)

Runtime entity limit
Maximum Actual Result
---------------------------------------------------------
275 232 PASS

Map prefix
Expected Actual Result
---------------------------------------------------------
ns_ or co_ ns_ PASS

================================================================================
P O T E N T I A L O P T I M I S A T I O N S
================================================================================

If client-side modelssprites were implemented, this map could save
Number Classname
---------------------------------
3 cycler
0 cycler_sprite
24 cycler_weapon
7 env_sprite
---------------------------------
34 Total

No runtime entities can be saved by replacing info_target's with info_null's.

Afr · June 2004

I love the infestation.

Lt_Gravity · June 2004

THATS HOW I LIKE THINGS TO BE DONE!
nice "released"-thread, a decent ns_map, a download of the betaversion...

I SIMPLY LIKE IT!

alzaroc · June 2004

Bravo! Love it!

ps: Kommt sofort auf NS_ Server =)

unslord · June 2004

Good stuff, but I also get erratic framerates as well and I think this is why:

<img src='http://students.washington.edu/garyh2/stash/ns_enceladus0004.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Looks fine but now...

<img src='http://students.washington.edu/garyh2/stash/ns_enceladus0003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Stuff is still rendering but its not visible, probably funcwall/entities.
Couple more.

<img src='http://students.washington.edu/garyh2/stash/ns_enceladus0000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://students.washington.edu/garyh2/stash/ns_enceladus0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

The r_speeds are low, but its rendering stuff way off in the distance, which is not good. Fix that and you're good to go.

Kouji_San · June 2004

That problem<b> unslord</b> posted are probably very large brush based entities... If they are to large, <i>"put a number here"</i> grid units across (I think its 600/6000grid units :/ ). They don't obey the the vis blocking rules when they get larger then that and get rendered troughout the entire map or the maps max viewable distance of the map.

To fix this put the individual brushes into seperate brush based entities so they are smaller, it will result into more runtime entities.

And since this is probably not the problem for the fps drops I'd leave it as it is. Since run time entities. Uhm arent they more cpu intensive for the server/client connection then client side r_speeds (which are good in this map it seems)?

Stavesacre · June 2004

I get chills walking around this map as a marine. Especially in "Maintenance" the strobing light and all just creeps me out.
Excellent job on atmosphere, I hope the FPS issue doesnt take too much to fix. I cant wait to play this online. I love the layout.
Only gripe I might bring up is that the infestation texture is a bit repetitive. And all the locked doors. Some indication that they are locked would be nice.
Anyway, great map.

bliNk · June 2004

Perhaps VIS wasn't run correctly

Uh-Oh · June 2004

Looks very nice.

I think your problem is due to:

Not feeding the Cookie monster. He will do that sometimes.

Sir_Pepe · June 2004

Arr yes, the cookie monster. How could i forget the cookie monster <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

I'm quite surprised about the fps issue. I didn't notice it because i was only watching the wpoly and none of my playtesters reported this... strange thing. If Mendasp is right, i have to kill ~1mb of lightdata... :/
Vis and/or particle systems are definitely not the problem.

I already had a different texture for useable doors before the release, but i somehow forgot to actually use them in the map. I hope that will avoid some confusion in future versions.

The repetitive infestation textures are another problem... 4MB texmen is not much, so atm there are only 2 infested wall textures allover. I don't know if i can/will do something about this.

Thanks for all your feedback <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Thaldarin · June 2004

Pepe if you haven't used HINT brush I suggest it, could drastically improve FPS. Although I only get around 20-30FPS as it is *Kicks TNT2 & Steam*.

brute_force · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday- @ Jun 16 2004, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Pepe if you haven't used HINT brush I suggest it, could drastically improve FPS. Although I only get around 20-30FPS as it is *Kicks TNT2 & Steam*.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
People, it's not about VIS. The r_speeds are low so that's not the cause.

Anyway, great map Pepe, it's looking really good, and those detail textures sure give it that extra bit of detail.

Thaldarin · June 2004

Hmm it has to be about the VIS if the engine is rendering polygons which the player can not see, and further looking at the screenshots that unslord provided I've had this error before. Mine was due to grouped entities, I doubt this is the same but it is something to check. Either way Pepe keep this up, you got some nice original architechture going well with a good mix of textures.

Sir_Pepe · June 2004

Thx ShdwStal & Thursday <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> But look at the r_speeds in unslord's pictures. 300 wpoly, seen or not, can't be responsible for such a drop in fps.

Bijiy · June 2004

Neat, I like it.

Olmy · June 2004

Light appearances like flashing lights, caused problems for me when testing a co map of mine, usually giving big drops in my fps in time with the flashes, ontop of what was already a shakey framerate due to doing -fast vis. Don't know if that could be anything to do with it. Also getting rid of some flashing lights, or setting light's with special appearances not to do bounces when lighting is calculated will reduce your light data considerably (i think thats a parameter in the new rad version by cagey).

Deranged · June 2004

I really love the map it has a different look/atmosphere to it. Very clean etc.
The unopenable doors are annoying since you don't know if you can or can't open them, like someone said maybe add red lights around them, or make the buton to open doors sparking and ripped out of the wall or something.

Just something to tell people, No you cannot pass <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

The fps is an issue I guess it depends on your computer, I have a POS and noticed it, wasn't to bad, but thats because I was by myself. I'm sure it's nothing big that's causing it and youll find it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

DarkSeraph · June 2004

it seems everyones computer, no matter how good or bad(well maybe bad, but let's not find out by putting this on a 33Mhz), had about the same fps.

Ns_enceladus

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