Self Defense Scenario Disc. 2
Marik_Steele
To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The party drunkard</div> In our last -- err, first...um, previous, yes <i><a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72872' target='_blank'>previous</a></i> self-defense discussion, we eventually came to a consensus about the safest way to handle a complete stranger putting a gun to your back. Anyone of any age and physical fitness can carry two wallets; in the case of a mugging, the safest thing to do is to keep one wallet with a small amount of cash in easy reach to satiate the mugger, and keep the other wallet with ID's, credit cards, and large amounts of cash safely tucked away in Talesin's pant pocket. Or mine.
*Ahem.*
This time we will be dealing with a slightly different, possibly more common situation.
Scenario: the Party Drunkard.
You are at a rather typical local party (hosted by yourself or someone else, doesn't matter), which by now is in full swing but has no law enforcement or other figures to watch for suspicious activity.
A friend you made five minutes into the start of the party approaches you and convincingly informs you that a guy across the room "really doesn't like you." This man across the room is currently speaking to two average-looking people.
You have not met, spoken to, or otherwise communicated with this other man before. One thing you are sure about: it is very unlikely that the alcoholic beverage in his hand is his first for the night. For the sake of this argument we'll assume the Drunkard is *just* big/strong/intimidating enough that he'd be easily able to beat you around the block -- if he was sober. You aren't certain about the odds with him drunk.
A few minutes later he approaches you and mumbles something you didn't quite understand. In his drunken state his facial expression and tone of voice are very difficult to distinguish.
Once again, my own personal priority list:
1. Avoid injury or death.
2. Avoid legal trouble.
3. (new one!) Avoid property loss or damage -- you are in a more crowded place than our last discussion, after all.
*Ahem.*
This time we will be dealing with a slightly different, possibly more common situation.
Scenario: the Party Drunkard.
You are at a rather typical local party (hosted by yourself or someone else, doesn't matter), which by now is in full swing but has no law enforcement or other figures to watch for suspicious activity.
A friend you made five minutes into the start of the party approaches you and convincingly informs you that a guy across the room "really doesn't like you." This man across the room is currently speaking to two average-looking people.
You have not met, spoken to, or otherwise communicated with this other man before. One thing you are sure about: it is very unlikely that the alcoholic beverage in his hand is his first for the night. For the sake of this argument we'll assume the Drunkard is *just* big/strong/intimidating enough that he'd be easily able to beat you around the block -- if he was sober. You aren't certain about the odds with him drunk.
A few minutes later he approaches you and mumbles something you didn't quite understand. In his drunken state his facial expression and tone of voice are very difficult to distinguish.
Once again, my own personal priority list:
1. Avoid injury or death.
2. Avoid legal trouble.
3. (new one!) Avoid property loss or damage -- you are in a more crowded place than our last discussion, after all.
Comments
--Scythe--
1. Take a wide stance (feet at least one shoulder width apart, but no more than one and a half), one foot infront of the other, standing in such a way that you could draw a straight line from one foot to the other to your opponent. The point being that he will have a hard time pushing you over in this stance, and you are in a good position to run as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
2. Keep your hands above his as much as possible, pushing his arms downward when possible. This position alone will make a good puch very hard for him to land on your face or head, the only places a punch can land that will effect your coordination enough to get away when the opportunity presents itself. It will also gives you a clear shot at his head/face as soon as he gets close enough.
3. When/If he gets close enough, stab your fingers into his eyes in an open handed position (this can also be done creatively as you back off hands raised claiming you aren't looking for a fight, expecially useful if the attacker has a weapon). If sufficiant dammage is done to his eyes no assaillent will be able to adequetly grip you, and will most likely fall to the floor grasping his eyes(making running after you much more difficult for him).
Note: Do not pull away from a stronger opponent if he grabs your arm, you are simply inviting him to topple your center of gravity and most likely pull you to the floor. If he grabs your arm with one hand, you should be able to roll your arm away breaking his grip at the thumb no matter how big and strong he is (although this might take a little practice to get right). If that for some reason fail, let him pull you into him and gouge his eyes with your free hand, just stay on your feet. Under NO circumstances present both arms to be grabbed, always keep one out of his reach until it's too late and he can't stop your fingers from going into his eyes.
That would pretty much be the standard issue self defence method for a drunken assailent. If you get chased down, and need be, rinse and repeat.
[edit] spelling and grammer oh my
Best way to handle it IMO is to smile, keep an open, relaxed appearance and say that you didn't quite catch that. After all, he might have just been asking where the bathroom was. Don't lay a hand on him until it's been established one way or the other.
If he's friendly, keep smiling and pat him on the shoulder, go along and converse pleasantly. May have just been a misunderstanding on the new-friend's part, or the new-friend may not have been a friend at all, just looking to get someone to start something, as HE may not like the guy.
If new-friend was not mistaken and the guy doesn't like you, ask him why. Drunks tend to be very open to talking. Discuss it, with a grain of salt. Don't touch him or act in an overly-friendly manner, but stay cordial. The situation can still be resolved with a good bit of tact and tolerance.
If the situation is worse, to the point where the drunk is a violent drunk and just mumbling to put you off-guard and get you close, let him make the first move. His reactions are most likely slowed. Avoid and get loud. Use an authoritarian voice and tell him to take it outside. Tell him that he's drunk, above all else.
-----------
After this point (assuming none of the other actions worked), a fight is almost inevitable. This is just advice.
Try to keep away from furniture and tell people to clear away. If you have other friends there, enlist their help if nearby to subdue.
If not, the three axioms apply. The one you most likely want to use is 'can't stand, can't fight', given that drunkenness already puts them at a disadvantage to staying vertical.
If the drunk has a weapon and attacks you with it, all bets are off. If possible, run. Call the police... the party host should/will not mind the cops showing up if there is a drunk who is THAT unruly. If not, apply the other axioms. You are in a self-defense position where your life is at risk. The sensation of pain is dulled on their end, so you have to literally incapacitate by one way or another.
Most preferably get them on the ground (again) and leave. If that isn't possible, work for an arm-lock. Force them down on their belly, arm-lock behind the back while kneeling over them, sitting on their butt. If possible, get the other arm locked as well. Ask someone to call the police while you keep them there, and report a drunk and disorderly partygoer.
In the case of a knife, put distance and do NOT try to incapacitate. Escape ASAP.
In the case of a gun... well, you're pretty screwed. Get in as close as possible... literally bearhug range so it's difficult to use the weapon. Keep your head clear of theirs, and control the firearm away from other guests. Keep turned to the side to avoid getting kneed in the ****. Try to trip them, or any other way get them on the ground. Secure the firearm if possible before the takedown to prevent the possibility of a misfire and collateral injury. Be ready to take a few punches, and try to take them in less-critical locations.
<!--QuoteBegin-myself+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (myself)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Assuming things escalate to quickly too directly avoid a situation before its apon you, do the following as fast as possible, running as soon as any opportunity should present itself (IE, as soon as he isn't touching you):
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but I told you I was assuming.
A) If you are hosting the party, most of the people there would be your friends, and would side with you.
1) Call on them to help restrain him and escort him off the premises.
2) If he comes back, tell him to leave, and if he persists, call the cops.
B) If it is not your party, find the host and explain the situation as best as you can. 1) Hopefully they will side with you, then proceed from A part 1.
2) If not, you are on your own. He is bigger than you, so trying to beat him would be futile
You have two options:
a) Stay at the party, but go to another room, away from him. If He follows, keep moving.
b) Leave.
I'd just hand him the peanuts or something and say that I have to talk to my friend over there. Chances are that he won't try anything in the crowded room. Why the hell would I try to fight a guy bigger than me when I don't have to?
This guy wanders over to me, "My mate doesn't like you"
Me-"erm... okay"
30 mins later.
"No I mean he really hates you"
me-"Fair enough, each to their own I suppose"
1 hour later.
"Right, he's outside waiting for you, we're gonna kick you in".
me- "... Ok, give us a min while a finish my pint"
Him-"... right... ok, good"
And he walks off looking puzzled.
Now bear in mind that I have no idea who any of these people are, never met them before in my life, I'm here with a couple of friends cos we knew some girls there. Anyway, so I drink about 2/3rds of my pint then step outside, glass in hand, with a few of my mates following nervously behind (everyone there had heard about the 'fight' by then).
Anyway, this bloke steps forward, about the same size as me and starts having a go at me, I just standing there being reasonable but cocky i.e. "I'm gonna kick you in" "Why?" Cos I hate you" "... whys that then" "Cos you're a (insert swearword)" "Why? ...and who are you exactly"
Anyway, to cut a long story short he acted all big and his mates were threatening and stuff... or they were until he said (paraphrasing again but it was something pretty close to this if not exact) "Have you ever been headbutted?" to which I laughed, downed the rest of my pint in front of him, looked him in the eye and asked sweetly "Yup, and have you ever had a glass smashed in your face?"
Upon which my mates all jumped on me and pinned me up against a wall, he took one look at them holding me back (I wasn't trying to go forward though, I was just enjoying being pressed up against the wall by one of the girls <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->) and he ran off, quickly followed by his mates.
Was a fun night <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My piece of advice, be friendly all the way up until he tries to hit you then give him a smack.
your messed up
and yah, Tale hit it again.
Calm, Cool, avoid if yah can.
If he does have an issue with you, calm, cool, avoid if yah can.
If he wants to press is. Athoritative, and prepared.
If he actualy attacks it gets different.
Those people with real training know what to do, how to fight with minimal damage to your self (and possibly reducing damage to him and suroundings).
Cover.
Most drunks have slowed reaction timing.
The typical 'attack' is the big ol haymaker round house, you can see these things comming a mile away. just tuck your arm in tight against the target (normal your head. Shoulder up, chin down. Lean into or away from the punch (the arc of power, the closer to the target, the more power, so if you stop it before or after it reaches full blow you are good).
In the case of an unarmed drunk it is better to cause them little real damage as charges/lawsuits can be pressed over that (thus don't slam them in the throat).
If you are trained, go for locks, armbars etc (I have gotten out of a fight that I didn't want to be in like that, just repeated armbars til lhe finaly stoped attacking).
If you don't know what your doing, the best bet is to have your mates just hold him down, all you need is 4 people, one on each limb and your good to go (I tend to travel with a bunch of realy big guys, specialy when I was in HS, no one messed with the geeks, we were to big <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
If you don't have the #s to over whelm, then do what you can.
There are a few places that even a drunk will stop fighting after getting hit in:
1) Stop their shins (side of your boot down their shin). This will generaly put most people on the floor, fight over.
2) If you do mangae to catch their arm, just twist it up around back (like yah see in the TV showes). Pull up and out if he resists.
3) pound him in the face (jaws are great places to hit)
well, here is to hoping that you never get in a fight <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cover.
Most drunks have slowed reaction timing.
The typical 'attack' is the big ol haymaker round house, you can see these things comming a mile away. just tuck your arm in tight against the target (normal your head. Shoulder up, chin down. Lean into or away from the punch (the arc of power, the closer to the target, the more power, so if you stop it before or after it reaches full blow you are good).
In the case of an unarmed drunk it is better to cause them little real damage as charges/lawsuits can be pressed over that (thus don't slam them in the throat).
If you are trained, go for locks, armbars etc (I have gotten out of a fight that I didn't want to be in like that, just repeated armbars til lhe finaly stoped attacking).
If you don't know what your doing, the best bet is to have your mates just hold him down, all you need is 4 people, one on each limb and your good to go (I tend to travel with a bunch of realy big guys, specialy when I was in HS, no one messed with the geeks, we were to big ).
If you don't have the #s to over whelm, then do what you can.
There are a few places that even a drunk will stop fighting after getting hit in:
1) Stop their shins (side of your boot down their shin). This will generaly put most people on the floor, fight over.
2) If you do mangae to catch their arm, just twist it up around back (like yah see in the TV showes). Pull up and out if he resists.
3) pound him in the face (jaws are great places to hit)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The senario is that the guy is bigger and you, and he may not acctually be compleatly wasted yet. Your at a party, you probably have had a few yourself, there is no reason you should want to be sparring or wrestling this guy. Best bet is to stay away from him, and if he tries to grab you, break his grip using whatever means nessacary. The shin thing will work pretty good unless the guy is absolutly plastered. Seeking help is never a bad thing, but it can not always be counted on either, some people for whatever reason, are just as happy to hang you out.
if he does approach you, if his intentions aren't clear (ie you can't tell if he wants to hug you or throttle you) just keep a decent distance and keep aware of whats behind you.
If you know he is planning on battering you, just leave the party. The trouble afterwards, the possible 'assault' charges etc aren't worth the risk.
in this case id nicely ask him to repeat whatever he said, but chances are I wont hear it again properly. As always. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1. He continually insults you or attempts to provoke you.
a. Avoid contact.
b. Find out who he is by some means. (There is some friendly person there who knows this person)
c. Find out if your friends there know this fellow.
d. Make an effort not to be in the same place as this moron.
2. He attacks.
a. Attempt to back away, the leave the party.
b. If you can't break away from the fight, you might have to resort to violence. In this regrettable scenario I'd attempt a swift punch to the middle of the torso, just below the ribcage. One or more should leave the opponent relatively unharmed, gasping for air, and unwilling to continue a fight. (That's my choice since I've been in basically the same situation in the past. I'm a short guy, that spot is usually at the perfect height to put all my force behind the punch.)
In any case your ultimate goal is to get away from this lunatic. Don't keep fighting until he is or you are unconscious, by then many other people might try to join the fray. Make it short and sweet then get the heck out of the area before people figure out what just happened, or at least leave his line of sight.
That fellow might press charges, and things might become harder on you since you fled the scene. But at least you will not have been stabbed, pummeled, shot,and/or killed as this guy could be packing a weapon of some type.
And it's folly to assume people won't use a hidden pocket knife in a fight just because you won't.
3. The drunken idiot might liven up a bit, and you might have found a new best friend...who knows?
QUOTE (CMEast @ Jun 16 2004, 06:20 AM)
I wasn't trying to go forward though, I was just enjoying being pressed up against the wall by one of the girls
your messed up<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The depends on how she's pressing me against the wall really doesn't it. We went out for a short while afterwards too so <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
QUOTE (CMEast @ Jun 16 2004, 06:20 AM)
I wasn't trying to go forward though, I was just enjoying being pressed up against the wall by one of the girls
your messed up<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The depends on how she's pressing me against the wall really doesn't it. We went out for a short while afterwards too so
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
woot!
CME Demonstrates the perfect way to avoide a fight!
Let your wang do the thinking.
then get the girl!
double w00t!
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/me salutes CME
this makes up for you getting in all those other fights <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
^________^
^________^ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that I don't belive that you are an excellent westler, but the guy is bigger than you, he is just as likely to have buddies that will help him out as you are, and once you go to the ground, you probably won't be getting up until one of you is pretty beaten.
I would agree with you if you could gaurentee a one on one, but the senario we are talking about, you have no way to verify that once you get on top of the guy and start pounding him you won't emmideately receive a pool cue to the back of the head, or worse. This particular situation, your best bet is to keep as much distance between you as possible (failing dipomacy), if you get into a grappleing situation, that solution is going to get real impossible real fast.
Remember, you don't know that this guy wants to fight clean or that he thinks he could take you in a fair fight, all you know is that someone said that this guy hates your guts, and as far as your concerned, he hates you for no apparent reason.
Although can I point out that your wang isn't the best thinker ever, went out last night, got plastered, got with someone I really shouldn't have (worse than me getting with my boss, that was pretty cool <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
Its 10:00 am here so she probably hasn't even got up yet to find out that I ran out of there as soon as she fell asleep... ok, its wrong... but it's her fault! She jumped me! Never stood a chance!
That should be Self Defense Scenario Disc. 3, how to protect yourselves from nympho's <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You have not met, spoken to, or otherwise communicated with this other man before. One thing you are sure about: it is very unlikely that the alcoholic beverage in his hand is his first for the night. For the sake of this argument we'll assume the Drunkard is *just* big/strong/intimidating enough that he'd be easily able to beat you around the block -- if he was sober. You aren't certain about the odds with him drunk.
A few minutes later he approaches you and mumbles something you didn't quite understand. In his drunken state his facial expression and tone of voice are very difficult to distinguish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sooooo that guy across the room.
beefcake... BEEFCAKE!
^________^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that I don't belive that you are an excellent westler, but the guy is bigger than you, he is just as likely to have buddies that will help him out as you are, and once you go to the ground, you probably won't be getting up until one of you is pretty beaten.
I would agree with you if you could gaurentee a one on one, but the senario we are talking about, you have no way to verify that once you get on top of the guy and start pounding him you won't emmideately receive a pool cue to the back of the head, or worse. This particular situation, your best bet is to keep as much distance between you as possible (failing dipomacy), if you get into a grappleing situation, that solution is going to get real impossible real fast.
Remember, you don't know that this guy wants to fight clean or that he thinks he could take you in a fair fight, all you know is that someone said that this guy hates your guts, and as far as your concerned, he hates you for no apparent reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if my friends jump in, it's very bad news
I hang around with many unscrupulous characters, and if one of his buddies attacked me or anyone else in the crew with a weapon...
[edit]
them, I could see that
[/edit]
Walking down some stairs in a club, my friend in front bumps into a lad and carries on walking. As i follow I hear him saying things about going after my said friend. Trying to defuse the situtation I started talking to him saying it was only an accident and he didn`t mean it in the most friendliest manner possible. I then patted the guy on the shoulder trying to be pally with him. Next thing I know another guy comes from behind him and while saying" leave my friend alone" punches me in the face. The bouncer then trys to kick me out for starting trouble. Luckily things were explained and I managed to get to the toilets to sort myself out.
What I am trying to say is avoid physical contact if possible since it can be misconstruded.