Forseeing Some Future Problems With "zerg Rushing"
Bigwig
Join Date: 2002-10-27 Member: 1646Members
Join Date: 2002-10-27 Member: 1646Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Kill it before it gets serious!</div> You all know how it goes. At the beginning of a round, someone yells "Rush rush rush!", the skulks follow each other until they end up in the marine base, and they bite the nearly defenseless marines to bits in their own home before they know what's happening. I've seen this happen many times, and it is a real problem (although not so much now). I think people have been overlooking this flaw in the game so far mostly because:
A. the aliens are so underpowered as of now, anything that helps them is a "good" thing.
B. people are still learning how the game works and don't know how devastating a zerg rush is.
If left unchecked, however, I know that this problem eventually will escalate until <i>everyone</i> exploits it. It will be frustrating to say the least.
What I am suggesting is for the NS team to take some measures to prevent excessive "zerg rushes" before they begin to ruin the game. You know, kill them before they begin to take over. They may seem harmless now, but when everyone is more experienced, expect to join a server and hear nothing but groaning because "those damn aliens rushed again". I want NS to be as fun as possible, but I am truly concerned about this!
A. the aliens are so underpowered as of now, anything that helps them is a "good" thing.
B. people are still learning how the game works and don't know how devastating a zerg rush is.
If left unchecked, however, I know that this problem eventually will escalate until <i>everyone</i> exploits it. It will be frustrating to say the least.
What I am suggesting is for the NS team to take some measures to prevent excessive "zerg rushes" before they begin to ruin the game. You know, kill them before they begin to take over. They may seem harmless now, but when everyone is more experienced, expect to join a server and hear nothing but groaning because "those damn aliens rushed again". I want NS to be as fun as possible, but I am truly concerned about this!
Comments
The zerg rush in Starcraft was devasting, but people learnt to deal with it - as they will in NS. Its hardly unbeatable, it just means the marines have to watch their backs early in the game instead of just blindly trying to build portals and turrets.
Only around 4 max zergs rush before they can get turrets up, which takes around 30 seconds.
And if it still a problem, if i was marines, id sit at the entrace, with others, waiting to kill untill the comm sets up some turrets.
Zergs? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
A smart commander will have a turret factory and turrets up within minutes, and it's your job to buy him that time.
To be frank, the only time I've seen a rush do anything more than delay the marine expansion was due either to sheer incompetance of the commander and players, and the sheer skill of the entire alien team (as in while we rushed, gorges had already setup chambers outside all exits, then quickly got the hives up).
Edit: it's a nice warmup for both teams, less marines gets overpowered and all die
To sab-r: I don't care about countering zerg rushes myself, because I haven't played a marine since october. I'm just concerned that when people eventually begin to realize how powerful this tactic is, it could change the gameplay completely. And it most likely won't be very fun.
To sab-r: I don't care about countering zerg rushes myself, because I haven't played a marine since october. I'm just concerned that when people eventually begin to realize how powerful this tactic is, it could change the gameplay completely. And it most likely won't be very fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, if 10-12 skulks is attacking shouldn't there be 7-9 marines defending and 2 building turrets and other stuff? I'd say that the marines should be able to beat the skulks to pulp especially considering they have the following advantages:
1. The building marines can stop building and help defend eveining out the odds.
2. Any dead marines will quickly respawn.
3. Turrets will be available in no time, making the rush pointless.
4. The skulks have to attack running forward where the marines can wait and spray killing at least a couple of skulks before they arrive in close combat
5. The commander can easily drop medpacks.
Ehm, I'd say if the marines is prepared (which they should considering how effective rushing seems to be) they should have no problem whatsoever fighting back the rush.
I dont know if its really good to prevent it. Its always much more succesful to hide somewhere where they will come by and then bite both their ankles so they fall and break their necks... To me it is at least.
A better tactik is to have a bunch of skulks hiding just outside their main base, attacking anyone who exits the base. Also raiding their expansions before they got turrets up is a good idea too.
a great strategy for the marines after a Skulk rush, is to charge the hive. No building, no resource capping, just run your butts off to the hive.
Because, after the marines defeat a Skulk rush, how many of the alien players do you think died in it ...?
70%? 80, 90%, 100%?
The point is, there is a downside to rushing. Mainly, if the commander is smart and his teammates have any kind of aim at all, the game could be over in a matter of 2 minutes with nothing but "stock" marines.
Marines, I have some bad news for you. The Kharaa are out to kill you. Any and all methods available to them are fair game. You had better adapt and overcome.
The zerg rush in Starcraft was devasting, but people learnt to deal with it - as they will in NS. Its hardly unbeatable, it just means the marines have to watch their backs early in the game instead of just blindly trying to build portals and turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3 of my marines in Star Craft killed a swarm of at least 10 zergs. May have been a full 12group. They had upgraded range, though. Might've been upgraded damage.
And so can the Frontiersmen. I am <b>always</b> looking at the doorways, watching for zerging skulks.What I do as an alien, I'm careful not to fall into as a marine.
Hell, on one game i was an alien, we had only one hive and the other hives had been taken over. This was also before the patch, so we were at a big disadvantage at this point.
Two guys, both skulks, got into the marines base, nailed their spawn gates and proceeded to munch on the command station. The marines got very **obscenity**.
This is a strategy game. Rushing is a strategy. You have to counter that strategy. If you don't learn to do that then at the beginning of each game stick your head between your legs and kiss your **obscenity** goodbye.
If the marines lose because of skulks rushing its their fault not the skulks, they should be on their guard more.
With the new serverside patch out i've been tearing down bases like cookies! it rules, taking down bases covert by turrets but the factory misplaced <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
a couple go in a corner, on a ledge, near the commander chair, in a shadowy part of the room somewhere, and aim at the entrances.
10-12 skulks rushing 10-12 marines isn't a problem. 1 marine is always the commander, and if they dont have one gorg saving up for resource nodes, it's a waste of 2-3 minutes of potential resource points being gained... which in the long run might add up to the reason you lost. so you're pretty even, 11 marines guarding against a rush of 11 skulks. 11 marines spraying bullets on the same alien = whole lotta dead alien. don't stand in a cluster like retards... it's a lot easier to kill 4 people standing all next to each other than to hit 4 people on all corners of the room and you having to run across the room to kill the next person. also, not to forget to mention you don't have to stay exactly in the base to guard it. there are plenty of blind spots for aliens too... especially for a skulk running at full speed in a straight line to the marine base, he won't catch that marine (or 2 or 3) hiding in corners waiting to shoot them from behind.
remember, aliens are human players too. when shot, it takes them a second to get their bearings to figure out where it's coming from. sure it's not a very long second, but it's enough time to take down 3-4 skulks with 2 or so marines. having slowed down the rush, by a few seconds, you have the rest of your teammates to guard the little remains of the skulkrush.
it's not hard, u just need good aim and proper positioning.
BTW, beating a Skulk rush is simple, usually there will be two exit points to a marine base(some have one which is even better). Order the marines to take up a strict line formation in front of the entrances, no alien can get through with such concentrated firepower. Have one marine designated as a builder and gradually get your defenses up. Wam bam, thank ye mam.
<b><u>Bite Marine Head</u></b>
In the beginning of the game, all the marines are in the same spot, so it makes biting their heads off easier because you don't have to go looking for them. Now, a Skulk 'rush' like this will result in 100% casualties (becuase a good Skulk will sit around biting things until he gets killed). But this is a good thing. Chances are, the marine casualties were almost 100% as well, so they aren't going anywhere till most of them respawn again. And dead aliens don't suck resources, so while you're getting the "You will spawn in shortly" message, your Gorge (you did leave a Gorge behind... right?) is getting showered in RP.
Net effect: The marines don't do jack because most of them are dead. Your Gorge gets a head start towards affording that shiny new hive, and by the time the marines are organized and alive, you've all respawned and are ready to do it again.
Especially with all the people complaining about "OMG teh marines got our 3rd hive spot! This is sooooooo unfair!!!!!11", I have trouble seeing why people find it so hard to imagine shutting down the marines from the word go is the best strategy the aliens have. Don't let them build their base with impunity. Don't let them take a step without rechecking each corner twice. Don't let them have a resource node without building 2 turret facs (thank the patch for that one) and about 12 SGs. Don't let the marines blink hard without chomping their faces off.
The more time it takes for the marines to do anything, the more likely it is that the next corner they turn around will have 4 grinning Fades lobbing Acid Rockets at them. The more effectively you harras with Skulks, the longer it takes for marines to do anything.
Skulk Rushing. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
<b><u>Bite Marine Head</u></b>
In the beginning of the game, all the marines are in the same spot, so it makes biting their heads off easier because you don't have to go looking for them. Now, a Skulk 'rush' like this will result in 100% casualties (becuase a good Skulk will sit around biting things until he gets killed). But this is a good thing. Chances are, the marine casualties were almost 100% as well, so they aren't going anywhere till most of them respawn again. And dead aliens don't suck resources, so while you're getting the "You will spawn in shortly" message, your Gorge (you did leave a Gorge behind... right?) is getting showered in RP.
Net effect: The marines don't do jack because most of them are dead. Your Gorge gets a head start towards affording that shiny new hive, and by the time the marines are organized and alive, you've all respawned and are ready to do it again.
Especially with all the people complaining about "OMG teh marines got our 3rd hive spot! This is sooooooo unfair!!!!!11", I have trouble seeing why people find it so hard to imagine shutting down the marines from the word go is the best strategy the aliens have. Don't let them build their base with impunity. Don't let them take a step without rechecking each corner twice. Don't let them have a resource node without building 2 turret facs (thank the patch for that one) and about 12 SGs. Don't let the marines blink hard without chomping their faces off.
The more time it takes for the marines to do anything, the more likely it is that the next corner they turn around will have 4 grinning Fades lobbing Acid Rockets at them. The more effectively you harras with Skulks, the longer it takes for marines to do anything.
Skulk Rushing. Learn it. Live it. Love it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the marines should be able to beat off the rush without death percentage of more than 50% or something like that. The reason being those I listed earlier. A counter rush could then make it blow up in the face of the aliens otherwise the marines should have a reasonable free chance to get some resource nodes down.
1. The building marines can stop building and help defend eveining out the odds.
Evening out the odds is not an advantage.
2. Any dead marines will quickly respawn.
When your infantry portal is under attack, 10 seconds is a long time.
3. Turrets will be available in no time, making the rush pointless.
If the turrets are up by the time the skulks make it there, everyone's build assisting and nobody is guarding the doorways.
4. The skulks have to attack running forward where the marines can wait and spray killing at least a couple of skulks before they arrive in close combat
And a decent skulk can take out 3 marines once he does get into CQB.
5. The commander can easily drop medpacks.
Doesn't help much when it only take 2 hits to kill a marine.
6. Actually the marines should be able to beat off the rush without death percentage of more than 50%.
But that 50% probably isn't going anywhere soon, as they have to finish building a base. You've still stopped them from going anywhere, mission accomplished.
Also take into account that just about every map (save for eclipse and nancy) have multiple entrances into the base. That means while the Skulks can all rush through one, half the marines have to be facing the other way just in case.