Lerk Bite
Zin
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18732Members
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18732Members
<div class="IPBDescription">tooo nerfed?</div> okay the problem with the lerk bite is tat it is a pathetic 50 damage attack. a lerk is a 30 res lifeform which cannot take on 1 marine 1 on 1 without taking big risks due to the numbers of bites needed for a kill. sure that ppl sae lerk aint suppose to bite but instead gas,umbra and basically support.
ill give u this situation. U, a lerk, caught a marine from behind. this marine is full health and armor. would u choose lose ur surprise advantage and use ur gas to weaken him or just go for the bite and try to take him out from behind?
if hte marine has some decent upgrades ur better off gasing him down slowly first as rushing in to bite also runs the risk of medpack negating 1 bite each time. this means tat lerks are unable to ultise the advantages of ambushing at all.
i understand the the reason for heavily nerfing the lerk bite was to prevent "hard to aviod 1 hit kill focus bites" but lowering its effectiveness by 33% is a little overboard?
heres some statistics for no. of lerk bites for each armor upgrade.
armor0: 3 bites
armor1: 4bites
armor2: 5bites
armor3: 6bites
this is just considering a light marine. a lerk can do NOTTHING to scratch a heavy armor marine. not to forget forever to down resourse towers.
heres my suggestion. increase the lerkbite damage to 65 or at least 60
65 damge lerk bite will result in this
armor0: 3bites
armor1: 3bites
armor2: 4bites
armor3: 5bites
this is at least respectable.
despite the fact tat ppl could argue tat lerkbite has a good rate of fire, plz understand tat no marine is going to stand still and let u eat him up.
discuss please.
ill give u this situation. U, a lerk, caught a marine from behind. this marine is full health and armor. would u choose lose ur surprise advantage and use ur gas to weaken him or just go for the bite and try to take him out from behind?
if hte marine has some decent upgrades ur better off gasing him down slowly first as rushing in to bite also runs the risk of medpack negating 1 bite each time. this means tat lerks are unable to ultise the advantages of ambushing at all.
i understand the the reason for heavily nerfing the lerk bite was to prevent "hard to aviod 1 hit kill focus bites" but lowering its effectiveness by 33% is a little overboard?
heres some statistics for no. of lerk bites for each armor upgrade.
armor0: 3 bites
armor1: 4bites
armor2: 5bites
armor3: 6bites
this is just considering a light marine. a lerk can do NOTTHING to scratch a heavy armor marine. not to forget forever to down resourse towers.
heres my suggestion. increase the lerkbite damage to 65 or at least 60
65 damge lerk bite will result in this
armor0: 3bites
armor1: 3bites
armor2: 4bites
armor3: 5bites
this is at least respectable.
despite the fact tat ppl could argue tat lerkbite has a good rate of fire, plz understand tat no marine is going to stand still and let u eat him up.
discuss please.
Comments
Combine with a high ROF, it's not too bad of a weapon.
Combat kinda bends the support rule. All it takes is a few extra upgrades (for me, focus and celerity, maybe adrenaline to accent the spores and umbra) to push it from a support class to the Swiss Army Knife of the Kharaa, performing both support and hunting roles.
However, in regular NS, you don't want to waste 30 resources by being too agressive. Stick to spores and umbra until you feel extremely confident about your flyby bite skill.
Run out of adre == Toasted (...Just try flying off without that...)
30 res of that? No thanks; lerk is not fine.
Run out of adre == Toasted (...Just try flying off without that...)
30 res of that? No thanks; lerk is not fine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Lerk in Classic (where your getting your 30 res cost) is not a Combat Class. Its a Support Class. Your not supposed to be melee'ing it up with Shotgun toting marines. Thats what Spore is for. Spore down their armor, and let your Fade teammate mop them up when you cast Umbra on the group as well.
The Lerk is an effective close combat unit only in Combat. Not Classic. Then is pretty much support only. Bite is provided to HELP you if you get in a close quarters situation, not your primary role.
Combine with a high ROF, it's not too bad of a weapon. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ooo darn messed up my numbers =( anyways no marnie gonna sit there and let u bite.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dont forget about combat too, if you increase it imagine how good they would be in combat with loads of upgrades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lets keep this to classic ns shall we? co is just ridicious and how many times do get focus in classic games?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lerk's can already inflict more damage a Skulk could in a few second's. They take down structure's atleast 25-30% faster than Skulk's could with bite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
okay this i seriously dun notice it. can someone comfirm or dispell this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1 sg shot == Toasted (...One nasty, nasty surprise...)
Run out of adre == Toasted (...Just try flying off without that...)
30 res of that? No thanks; lerk is not fine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
precisely. it dies easily. however, it aint my intention to turn a lerk into a noobified alien but 30 res of a not so effective support unit aint tat worth it unless ur at a certain level of skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Try pushing forward and flapping TOWARDS the marine, cuz you're faster ya know! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sori pal tat doesnt work =p straight lines = <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Lerk in Classic (where your getting your 30 res cost) is not a Combat Class. Its a Support Class. Your not supposed to be melee'ing it up with Shotgun toting marines. Thats what Spore is for. Spore down their armor, and let your Fade teammate mop them up when you cast Umbra on the group as well.
The Lerk is an effective close combat unit only in Combat. Not Classic. Then is pretty much support only. Bite is provided to HELP you if you get in a close quarters situation, not your primary role. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
any1 who meelees with a shotty deserves to die especially lvl 2/3 shottys can eat in 1 burst =D sporing down armor... welders counter tat =(
as for helping in a close quaters situation does tat mean bite is useless and a lerk is limited to gas? umbra is good but many a times u dun haf it when u most need it.
let me state first, i aint a noob when it comes to lerk and i know when to run or fight, the problem is there no bang for buck when it comes to the lerk.
heres the point. lerk aint worth 30res for its effectiveness and i believe the lack of power from bite lies the root.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
any1 who meelees with a shotty deserves to die especially lvl 2/3 shottys can eat in 1 burst =D sporing down armor... welders counter tat =(<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The same way welders "counter" biting HAs to death. Its still going to cost them time, and once the group is larger than 2 becomes a serious liability.
The lerk currently is probably the strongest earlygame creature - it actually beats the Fade too as far as manuevering and groups go. The main reason Fades are still popular is static defense and sheer reliability of a 600HP creature (300/150)., compared to a 185 HP one.
Lerks are a support class. That means you should be sporing marines constantly and only using Bite when you're positive you can finish him off with no armor(i.e. when he doesn't have a shotty). If you find yourself in close quarters by chance it's probably safer to run away. If you ever attacked a marine with Bite and were one shotted by his shotgun, you were being a stupid Lerk and deserved to die. Is that hard to understand? Leave the biting to the skulks. In Classic, Bite is an emergency backup weapon like Spit is for Gorges.
Lerks who harass nonstop with spores are a nightmare for early game marines. They cost the comm huge res in medpacks and welders(if he decides to drop them which most comms don't). They are a support class. Try it some time.
Run out of adre == Toasted (...Just try flying off without that...)
30 res of that? No thanks; lerk is not fine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Lerk in Classic (where your getting your 30 res cost) is not a Combat Class. Its a Support Class. Your not supposed to be melee'ing it up with Shotgun toting marines. Thats what Spore is for. Spore down their armor, and let your Fade teammate mop them up when you cast Umbra on the group as well.
The Lerk is an effective close combat unit only in Combat. Not Classic. Then is pretty much support only. Bite is provided to HELP you if you get in a close quarters situation, not your primary role.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really haven't played Combat at all, you know; so don't mix it to this. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And yes, I know it is a support class -as much as onos is "assault" class that has to run more often that not. What I was saying, if you re-read my post, is that lerk dies too easy to one 10 res weapon. Considering that lerk costs 30, only 20 more for a fade that can take much more punishment, it is not worth it.
Of course, there has been some discussion about the SG's sharpnel spray, so that might actually be the matter that needs fixing -getting all the damage pinpointed to one area can do pretty nasty job of almost any life-form. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Lerks are a support class. That means you should be sporing marines constantly and only using Bite when you're positive you can finish him off with no armor(i.e. when he doesn't have a shotty). If you find yourself in close quarters by chance it's probably safer to run away. If you ever attacked a marine with Bite and were one shotted by his shotgun, you were being a stupid Lerk and deserved to die. Is that hard to understand? Leave the biting to the skulks. In Classic, Bite is an emergency backup weapon like Spit is for Gorges.
Lerks who harass nonstop with spores are a nightmare for early game marines. They cost the comm huge res in medpacks and welders(if he decides to drop them which most comms don't). They are a support class. Try it some time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i do aviod shottys but i still get toasted sometimes by 1 hit shottys even with umbra protection. it happens. not to forget lmgs gun down lerks easy. its easy to track its movements though i am using updown movements to be more tricky.
impatience gets to me ,and obviously every1, for having to spore down armor before enaging bite and lose my element of surprise. tat is not fun or efficant for tat matter
lerks who harass r expensive to the commander in terms of medpacks. however marine still live and get nodes which give income to the marines. im implying tat harssment < termination. i must say i disagree with comparing of gorge spit with this. it isnt merely a last resort weapon but its a skillful attack. it isnt easy htiting with spits and its 25 damage has the potential to kill.
so in the end the lerk is a 30res lifeform tat is possibly weaker than a 10 res investment and as person who uses it must play <i>tactically</i> to surivive and it becomes boring.
edit: sometimes its just tough luck to run into a shotty or a group of blood thirsty marines unknowingly and get toasted. again, such things happen frenquently and down goes 30 res.
As for the occasional ambush which will kill the Lerk; it happens. Lerks only cost 30 res, most of the time you can afford it again when that happens. If you don't like that then get SoF.
30 res doesn't come that quickly unless you are an uber lerk with many kills, but unless rines are stupid enough to breathe the gas and die, I doubt you will get 30 soon.
SoF? Hive 3 buddy, and by that time, I bet it is already over.
I agree with the most part with Zek, Lerk means spam spore and umbra like a mad cow and use bite primarily when your BEHIND the marine or when attacking buildings. Lerks are actually weaker than gorges and cost 30 res, so using one effectively is pretty difficult for the average player. Even if they get medpacks, your spores will weaken their armor upgrades meaning that skulks can still get 2 bite kills on them. If your a lerk and they have heavies and you only have 1 hive, well... your pretty much useless...
I agree with the total uselessness.
But I wish lerks were somehow useful in that situation. Even if it's just 5% of the normal damage, spores should do <i>something.</i>
imo
leark is woth the 30rez when you have 2 hive's + dc and mc (but it is still not meant to be a killer)
at 3 hive's now you have something you can use reliably to kill rambos with
carpace celerity sof. see marien hit primal munch munch munch dead marien. bites so fast they hardly know what hit them.
some may prefer the stealth approch but that means lower speed and no sof. you could end up in an abush with out the speed to get out.
all in all id say the leark is just fine as is
I agree with the total uselessness.
But I wish lerks were somehow useful in that situation. Even if it's just 5% of the normal damage, spores should do <i>something.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was suggesting that spores may slow down movement on heavies, that way it may serve some purpose.
Lerks have to be weak because if they weren't, they'd be practically invincible when doing their job correctly. Lerks aren't mini-Fades; they're a harassment unit in the early game, and a support one in the end. If you want to rack up the kills then save 20 more res and go Fade because the Lerk isn't for you.
Saying Lerks should only spore is just as silly as saying they should only bite. Spores against a lone marine are almost entirely a waste of time, and even against groups they aren't always entirely applicable. Not to mention the fact that you can be immensely helpful to your teammates charge as a Melee lerk, because unlike all your teammates you can go from passive to aggressive in a split second - allowing you to only bite people looking away, or draw fire.
And thats the whole point. The Lerk works fine for all this, its a perfectly viable lifeform and its even available 5 res into the game. Make it any cheaper and we'll get 1 minute alien wins - 2 Gorges throw down MCs, 4 people go Lerk and camp out marine spawn untilt he Celerity Gorges arrive and spit out the IP mines, GG. And all that before you can even research A1, so its not like marines would stand a remote chance <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Adren is the only way you can both spore and umbra, or even keep up a constant cloud of anything at all, without camping some mcs. That's plenty of reason to take it right there.
edit: why would you be lerking alone anyway? If it's you and a skulk vs a rambo, you really won't need celerity. If there's more than that, stripping their armor will be worthwhile.
Lerk = 30. 3 chambers + upgrade = 32. Total cost- 62.
That aside, a lerk shouldn't be going toe to toe with an SG if at all possible. Try smart playing.