<!--QuoteBegin--padijun+Nov 6 2002, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (padijun @ Nov 6 2002, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem I find is that I get splattered before I can react if I round a corner and bump into a marine. I guess that's the point, though, becuase they excel in other areas like slowly chipping away at turrets and harassing enemies from a distance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You shouldnt be "bumping" into marines.. you have a built in wallhack.. remember?
most maps have kewl was for the aliens to get into the main base for the mariens like small hidden vents ect , which makes playing the maries soo much better , oh and i like the team balancing thing very good <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just played one really long game as the marine commander and I think the teams are pretty even now (we did lose in the end but that is probably because it was 9v7). The only thing I would change back is turrets needing the factory to function.
My 101 report is that the single act of requiring the turret factory for power has altered the game dramatically, and for the better. My first game had a lot of back and forth going on. The resource points were falling, getting taken over, being taken back, etc etc. It was great.
All of the other changes are interesting, but can't really be blamed for any new problems. Although there's gotta be something to Seer's complaint that the O Towers can too easily turtle the Marines at base so long as there's a healing Gorge and some D towers behind them. The LMG really has to pound away FOREVER at those things in that situation. Or suicide run for a Gorge kill.
other possible solutions for now regarding O Towers at marine base..... mines! Run up to the towers, drop mines where the Gorge might walk up to them to heal them. As far as i know, only the Fade can destroy those things. Or place the mines at an angled position so it blows up right away. I dunno, worth a shot.
(Also, mines are good if u put them at ankle level. Even tho the Skulk can jump over them .. they usually have to be at your ankle to kill you. Run them into the lasers, if u can. Mines might be too pricey for this to be effective.. but give it a shot!)
ya the only balance problem is rushing, but think about it, if the marines want to rush they can, they just never do. they only problem with marine rushing is that they don't know where the hive will be. maybe map-makers can put a couple turrets next to the marine spawn to combat rushing...
The first one I was busy trying to build up defences within the hive. Moving onto the second Hive to buid it up, we won.
Ok, try #1.
Second game, I stay alien again. The marines turtled, we were still doing the same thing, building up defences and readying for our 2nd hive. The majority of our team (skulks) dove into the marine base. Again and again.. By the time we had the 2nd tower, the marines lost.
As much as I'm enjoying hearing the complaints... It does seem odd, could it be the aliens actually got better in skill? I will admit, I hated aliens when I first started playing them, I couldn't find a server that had an actual even team split, always the marines had the advantage in numbers so I had to join the aliens just to try and help the underdog. I grew to enjoy the skulk and gorge over any other form within the alien host and learned to use them (I've definately seen those skulks with better skill than me. I suck at this still. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->). It definately beat listening to all the complaints of "Commander need ammo/armor/medipack/hmg/jetpack" usually followed with a "NOW" message.
So did aliens truly suck as I've read, or was it more that the Marines were relying upon hmg's and heavy armor?
This patch is even, but the marine team NEEDS to have a good commander AND feild commanders with voicecomm to direct assaults if there are more than 6-7 people on the team.
*edit* forgot to say, I've seen aliens win mostly, because of the fact that 1 commander cannot direct a full team of marines, place structures, set up outposts, and give out wepons all while being attacked.
My Win/Loss record as commander: 4-2 My Win/Loss as aliens: 3-1
IMO this is great.. for starters we have the marines owning the aliens, and this created a real sense of hatred between aliens-humans, with the hardcore alien players taunting the marines in chat ( seik: chomp chomp) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
now that its been evened up somewhat its the marines turn to try and learn new tactics and strategies.. This has made the game really varied and interesting... probably not the original intent, but i'm sure having a blast. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Seikeden+Nov 6 2002, 05:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seikeden @ Nov 6 2002, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IMO this is great.. for starters we have the marines owning the aliens, and this created a real sense of hatred between aliens-humans, with the hardcore alien players taunting the marines in chat ( seik: chomp chomp) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
now that its been evened up somewhat its the marines turn to try and learn new tactics and strategies.. This has made the game really varied and interesting... probably not the original intent, but i'm sure having a blast. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yea....humanlover!
I havent yet had chance to actually play with the new patch (I'm about to soon <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) but from reading the change list it sounds like they've made some very good adjustents & not overdone it. I'd say don't make any more changes to the balance of the game now for a while <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im thinking the whole point of the game is for aliens to be stronger then marines one on one perhaps even two to one. Just like in films etc, remember those moments in Aliens, walking thro aliens infested areas, backing each other, working together? Thats what the marines should have had to do in the first place, move/work together in order to stay alive from these aliens that could come from anywhere, be anywhere. But that wasnt the case. Hopefully now they will, the people bitching are just upset they cant go off on their own now killing/nading everything in sight and not needing a team.
oh, and silverfox, why dont you try writing something constructive for a change? All I ever see you do is cry about this and that <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
What Typhon is SO true. Listen to him <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, I got that, shut the hell up. All I'm saying is that the Marines should get something in return for getting rid of their later game dominance, so they can get a little bit of their early game dominance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They still totally dominate late game. Aliens DO dominate for the first 2 mins. There is a real risk of a skulk rush but you CAN defend it easily if you have your wits about you. Turrets go up very fast and the risk is over. Afer that, skulks are the order of the day, say for 10 minutes - i love doing ambushes outside their base, messing with their minds and dropping down behind single marines. But quickly they catch on and start to look up and wont travel alone. Often you hear them standing around in base radio spamming for 5 mins befor they get a group together. Once this happens, skulks become a lot less useful unless you can rally a pack to you and manage to keep them together in an ambush. (ill admit here that my teams gorge players maybe arent perfect, in future ill have them take nodes rather than straight saveing for hive, at this point we usually have no hive, not many nodes and little tech. However even when given map control marines fail to take the map.)
From here on, marine dominance grows, until a minor setback when fades come online. But soon there is just too many ha/hmg even with "limited" resources
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not really the fault of the Marines, it's the aliens forcing them to turtle, not the Marines turtling themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No its not your fault, its OUR SKILL AND TATICS. See above.
<!--QuoteBegin--Node+Nov 6 2002, 11:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Node @ Nov 6 2002, 11:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only reason marines are whining is because they actually need skill and talent and knowledge now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gotta love oversimplification.
Given all the whining of teh ub4r alien pwnage, maybe I'll have to pop my proverbial cherry and try out the marines!
Pretty much, up until now, marines ALWAYS had the numbers advantage over aliens. And I couldn't, in good conscience, go marines against an already outnumbered enemy, now could I? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
So... I'm actually looking forward to this. I'd like to think I'm good at RTS', and the one thing I'd been looking forward to was trying my hand at being commander!
Well I agree totally to an earlier point. The marines are getting sent in to save an allied ship. Indeed, first spawn should be with full ammo (if thats possible to code). After that, any stupidity is rewarded by a fun *click*click* sound. I'm not a marines lover but they should get a bit more ammo, 100 rounds REALLY isnt a lot when faced by 2-4 skulks. Maybe not full then, maybe 50-100 or 50-125, that should even it out, even if just a bit.
I read something about skulk rushes somewhere in this thread, but I didn't feel like reading all the pages to make sure this was on-topic enough...
note: this was BEFORE the patch
I rushed the marines ALONE (all of my idiotic team mates went gorges as usual) and I almost won the game BY MYSELF! I killed all 6 marines (not the commander though) and I NEARLY got their only infantry portal... it had like one [whatever it's called] left when someone respawned and killed me... If ONE of those idiots on my team just had followed me, then we would have won in below one minute!
Also, as I said in some other thread, the changes will probably unbalance the game for the marines when more skilled aliens start appearing... and especially in clan games...
One reason a lot of aliens have been winning pre-patch, is a lot of servers are tweaking the skill.cfg in aliens favor. I played in several servers where build cost and time were reduced a lot for aliens.
One server, resource towers cost like 10 and hives cost 40
You complain and complain and wont listen that its an RP bug.
You complain and complain that it has to be the number of turrets, or the HMG's power or - what ever.
This is what happens when changes are made on a broken resource system.
All I can say is, enjoy the ride, perhaps Flayra will tweak it again in the somewhat near furture.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My ? is why didn't flayra fix the resource bug in the first place? ALso, if he hasn't found the correct way to fix it, isn't this the next best thing? It balances things a bit better on the current resource model, and when he finally gets it fixed, he can just set everything back to normal, and then viola, you have a brand new game again, and then i guess suppose minor tweaks after that.
The only point i see in your post is that people are going to complain no matter what, too which i don't care. Flayra made the game, he should fix it how he wants, not the masses.
<!--QuoteBegin--Typhon+Nov 6 2002, 06:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Nov 6 2002, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Played 2 games so far with the patch, both alien wins. I think the big issue is with skill levels. In chronological order:
1) game comes out. average marine skill > average alien skill, marines beat aliens.
3) resource bug develops and is put to full use. marines beat aliens 99% of the time. But marine skill is still just above alien skill
4) in response to imbalances, pure alien players start really concentrating on tactics like rushing, diversions, etc. They get good because they have to to atleast survive. Alien skill > marine skill, but marines still win because of imbalances.
5) patch comes out. Imbalances gone. Alien skill > marine skill. now Aliens win alot.
6) one week from now, marines will have developed teamwork and tactics against overwhelming odds, just as aliens did. marine skill = alien skill...all is well in the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm hoping to GOD that this is what truly happens. It makes all the sense in the world, is simple, and straight forward. And, if it does, NS could be the next CS...oh would I love to see that! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
[/me goes to toss in Aliens for some pre-game pumpage]
I've been playing all night, I really have no life. I played on two servers, one for the most part, some lan vancouver server. Anyway, back to my point. I played at least 10 matches, every single one, the aliens won.
Now maybe it's just my horrible, horrible luck, I guess, these guys were skilled players, the Marines always worked together, the voice comms were going crazy, "Secure that hive point at all costs!" and all that, and work together they did. One time they actually did it and it was a very close game, but the aliens dominated once they got that hive back. If I recall correctly, not one alien worked as a team, they went their random ways building random things limiting where the Marines could go.
As much as I want to believe you guys that the only reason this weird phenomena of my past 25 games as marine losses is due to the marines having no skill, I'm just going to say that... bloody hell, that's not very likely. I don't even know what the problem is anymore, but I did play alien myself quite a few of those rounds. The rounds where none of the aliens work together are close matches, the ones where they do work together...
<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'> Complete and utter dominance.</span></b>
This really went regardless of whether or not the Marines had skilled players and were working together. It's just simply too hard to get anywhere when your base and expansions are surrounded, and you constantly need resources. So maybe, just maybe, if marines work together, which isn't uncommon at all, and aliens don't, which is very common as well, perhaps you get an even game, but if the aliens are coordinating, then the marines might as well just give up?
I'm tired of arguing, I'm not even trying to argue, I'm just trying to stop you guys from immediately thinking the falsities of what I'm trying to declare here, and give an actual discussion about the issue. Perhaps none of you believe me, and I'm too tired to keep on going today, but when I wake up tomorrow, I want to freaking lose as an Alien when my team is coordinated. When that happens, I'll freak out and give everyone in this Forum 20 bucks.
<!--QuoteBegin--The Seer+Nov 6 2002, 09:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Seer @ Nov 6 2002, 09:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've played on 4 different servers today, all of them had countless games of alien pwnage. Maybe I'm unlucky, but I'm definetely an above-average player, I've been giving at least 5 hours or more a day since the mod came out, and... here, I'll give you scenarios, all the games I've played today pretty much are the same.
First five minutes. Aliens coordinate, there's usually 6 or more on each team I've played on today. They attack as soon as they can. They know where the marine base is, and just keep continuing to attack until it becomes too hard because of turrets. Half of them go gorge, a couple gorges save up for hives, the rest build defenses outside the Marine base, and build resource towers everywhere else. Aliens camp outside the base, and the gorges heal their towers, this continues on for about 10 minutes, the marines usually get somewhere, but never manage to secure a hive. Fades with bile bombs and Onos stomping our bases = Game over Marines.
I played at least 15 games today, not one Marine win. I played two games since the patch came out, both alien wins. The marines had enough coordination, almost all the times I played there were constant attacks of groups of marines of 5 or more, and no newbie commanders. Got stomped everytime.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I did that exact thing its one of the ways to stop marines dead in their tracks also with a couple defence chambers there its alot harder for them to win. The reason some mariens are lsoing is because now they have to truely work together instead of being a one man army like they used to. It will take abit for them to get used to working as a better team.
I think things are just right now, aliens need to be in bit of a favor makes things nicer to play and all but hey it always can be better, dev tem is doing hell of a job ! Kudos !
<b>The Angry Marine</b> <i>OMG OMG TEH PATCH FUXXED UP MY GAME I CANT KILL EVERY1 NOW!!!1111</i> Poor you. Try learning some skill. This isn't Counter-Strike, stop playing it like it. Would you go against 3-to-1 odds in CS and expect to win? No? Then quit whining. You can't rely on your precious turret-spam and HMG any more, meatpopsicle.
<b>The Happy Alien</b> <i>It's payback time, beotch!</i> Let's see ... +Fade, -RP cost, turrets die faster ... I like this. Aliens that learned to cope with the previous Marine 0wnage are now going to <b>dominate</b>. We're used to having to nip at your ankles until you drop, and hiding from the almighty HMG squadron. Now that you're going to have to use *gasp* TEAM TACTICS, which no one seems to be able to, it's lunchtime for the Kharaa.
<b>The Troll / Smacktalker / Dumbarse</b> <i>Shut up, SilverFox ... you don't know anything.</i> Right. So the little "Playtester" means squat, right? SF knows nothing and is just whining, right? Try pulling your head out of your arse before posting.
In conclusion, I'd like to hope that Typhon's right, and the Marines will learn how to deal with the balance just like we Aliens did on Day One.
Until then, <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> == a very full and satisfied <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--The Seer+Nov 6 2002, 10:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Seer @ Nov 6 2002, 10:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I recall correctly, not one alien worked as a team, they went their random ways building random things limiting where the Marines could go.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it just me or is this a self-contradicting statement?
Just because aliens aren't clustered in a group like the intruders we're trying to cleanse, huddling, afraid, back to back with guns pointed outward.... it doesn't mean they're not coordinating something.
The games I've been a part of where aliens won, it's because you had a strong attack force harrassing the marines, while you had your gorges in separate parts of the level, each chambering up the place. They weren't all in the same area, but we were CERTAINLY coordinating things. Like when I got into the back of the marine base as a lerk and asked for cloaking. I got it and.... had fun till I was finally discovered <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
was kinda funny... i'm saying out loud (you can ask my roommate) "dont look up dont look up dont look up dont look up"... he looks up and waits a few seconds. We started firing at about the same time, but 2 shots kills a lerk (compared to the 15 or so thorns I pumped into his face).
What's wrong with you people? Since when did I encourage Counter-Strike tactics? Since when did I encourage mass turrets? Since when did I encourage rambo style HA+HMG lone warriors? Name one sentence, and I may decide to believe you.
That and your post seemed a little hypocritical in that you're blaming me for being a whiner, when you clearly referred to turning the tables on the marines. Wouldn't that mean that if you thought that it was unfair for aliens before, it is now unfair for marines? I'm not saying any of these things, the game was fine for aliens before the patch, and now it's a little bit easier, but this really isn't about the patch.
All I'm saying is that there's so many fewer options as Humans when you only have your base and maybe one or two expansions, and you're constantly being attacked. This is why I'm glad the alien respawn time is so long, if it was as short as the Marines, then the Marines would get freaking owned.
I'm not arguing, there's defenses against all this, you can be an excellent marksman, and perhaps split your team into two very well organized teams, one drawing the aliens back, and one defending the expansions, making even more expansions while doing it. It's just that if the aliens are even just slightly organized, the Marines have to be damn well near perfect with shotguns and jetpacks and perfect maneuvering and aiming skills.
I can't believe I'm still arguing, I coulda sworn this is like the fiftieth time I made my point, but the entire point of this post is summed up in the first paragraph.
Your right MercenaryForHire aliens had to get beaten so much that they got some good skills to use and with this patch it made it so they could use it. As for those complaing whinning marines they should learn to work as a team better and quit bothering the commander for heavy armor and a hmg. Its just the marines now need to learn from their wins and losses so they can be more effecient soldiers and commanders.
And I agree with you completely Brew, that's pretty much what I've been trying to say. By keeping the Marines on offense, the rest of the alien team can coordinate where to build stuff and how to keep the marines on defense. Needless to say, the plans pretty much *always* work. Maybe if you were fighting an un-coordinated alien team, the sides would be fairer. Get it?!1
I know I've only played 10 games since the patch came out, which isn't too much considering you need to play a lot more games to accurately test the game, but I was constantly trying to figure out how the marines could adapt to the pwnage, and really failed to see anything. When I was a Marine, there was definetely coordination going on, because we all really wanted to secure a hive point before we got pwnz0red, but coordination simply wasn't enough. Sure, some people still have no will to work as a team yet as Marines, but in the games I've played, the majority of the marines sticked together waiting for orders from an experienced commander, and still lost dramatically.
I'm really curious about actual counters, not just "work as a team and win!1" statement.
Most of us aliens learn to build blockades of turrets in every tight spot to keep the marines from progressing into certain areas. That is one way for the aliens to get the edge in the level.
First of all, I'd like to say that I'm utterly disgusted with the amount of bickering that seems to be going on soley on the basis of "Alien vs. Marine". What's with all these partisan ways of thinking? There's enough of that kind of stuff in the news right now, do we have to have it on the forums?
I'm not saying I mind that people like aliens or marines more than the other, but please stop talking about it like it's You vs. Them and vice versa. At this point, I'm afraid that simply stating my opinion on this is going to get people yelling "Marine Lover!!!" at me and calling me a whiner. Personally, I <b>always</b> choose random, so I'm pretty unbiased on this sort of thing.
Anyway, just to give my opinion on the matter, I think the majority of the imbalances were caused because of the resource bug. I would have rathered the patch just fix that, add the autobalance, and a change to the grenade launchers. That's not to say that I don't think other things in this patch are necessarily bad, but I think it would have been a better idea to start with small changes to inch towards a balance, as oppossed to possibly overcompensating. Again, just my humble opinion. Tell me what you think, but please stay civil <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
You shouldnt be "bumping" into marines.. you have a built in wallhack.. remember?
We are supposed to be the ones scaring them.
All of the other changes are interesting, but can't really be blamed for any new problems. Although there's gotta be something to Seer's complaint that the O Towers can too easily turtle the Marines at base so long as there's a healing Gorge and some D towers behind them. The LMG really has to pound away FOREVER at those things in that situation. Or suicide run for a Gorge kill.
other possible solutions for now regarding O Towers at marine base..... mines! Run up to the towers, drop mines where the Gorge might walk up to them to heal them. As far as i know, only the Fade can destroy those things. Or place the mines at an angled position so it blows up right away. I dunno, worth a shot.
(Also, mines are good if u put them at ankle level. Even tho the Skulk can jump over them .. they usually have to be at your ankle to kill you. Run them into the lasers, if u can. Mines might be too pricey for this to be effective.. but give it a shot!)
The first one I was busy trying to build up defences within the hive. Moving onto the second Hive to buid it up, we won.
Ok, try #1.
Second game, I stay alien again. The marines turtled, we were still doing the same thing, building up defences and readying for our 2nd hive. The majority of our team (skulks) dove into the marine base. Again and again.. By the time we had the 2nd tower, the marines lost.
As much as I'm enjoying hearing the complaints... It does seem odd, could it be the aliens actually got better in skill? I will admit, I hated aliens when I first started playing them, I couldn't find a server that had an actual even team split, always the marines had the advantage in numbers so I had to join the aliens just to try and help the underdog. I grew to enjoy the skulk and gorge over any other form within the alien host and learned to use them (I've definately seen those skulks with better skill than me. I suck at this still. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->). It definately beat listening to all the complaints of "Commander need ammo/armor/medipack/hmg/jetpack" usually followed with a "NOW" message.
So did aliens truly suck as I've read, or was it more that the Marines were relying upon hmg's and heavy armor?
Take care all and give'm hell
LS
*edit* forgot to say, I've seen aliens win mostly, because of the fact that 1 commander cannot direct a full team of marines, place structures, set up outposts, and give out wepons all while being attacked.
My Win/Loss record as commander: 4-2
My Win/Loss as aliens: 3-1
now that its been evened up somewhat its the marines turn to try and learn new tactics and strategies.. This has made the game really varied and interesting... probably not the original intent, but i'm sure having a blast. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
now that its been evened up somewhat its the marines turn to try and learn new tactics and strategies.. This has made the game really varied and interesting... probably not the original intent, but i'm sure having a blast. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea....humanlover!
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
But that wasnt the case. Hopefully now they will, the people bitching are just upset they cant go off on their own now killing/nading everything in sight and not needing a team.
oh, and silverfox, why dont you try writing something constructive for a change? All I ever see you do is cry about this and that <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, I got that, shut the hell up. All I'm saying is that the Marines should get something in return for getting rid of their later game dominance, so they can get a little bit of their early game dominance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They still totally dominate late game. Aliens DO dominate for the first 2 mins. There is a real risk of a skulk rush but you CAN defend it easily if you have your wits about you. Turrets go up very fast and the risk is over. Afer that, skulks are the order of the day, say for 10 minutes - i love doing ambushes outside their base, messing with their minds and dropping down behind single marines. But quickly they catch on and start to look up and wont travel alone. Often you hear them standing around in base radio spamming for 5 mins befor they get a group together. Once this happens, skulks become a lot less useful unless you can rally a pack to you and manage to keep them together in an ambush. (ill admit here that my teams gorge players maybe arent perfect, in future ill have them take nodes rather than straight saveing for hive, at this point we usually have no hive, not many nodes and little tech. However even when given map control marines fail to take the map.)
From here on, marine dominance grows, until a minor setback when fades come online. But soon there is just too many ha/hmg even with "limited" resources
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not really the fault of the Marines, it's the aliens forcing them to turtle, not the Marines turtling themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No its not your fault, its OUR SKILL AND TATICS. See above.
Gotta love oversimplification.
cool..
Given all the whining of teh ub4r alien pwnage, maybe I'll have to pop my proverbial cherry and try out the marines!
Pretty much, up until now, marines ALWAYS had the numbers advantage over aliens.
And I couldn't, in good conscience, go marines against an already outnumbered enemy, now could I? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
So... I'm actually looking forward to this. I'd like to think I'm good at RTS', and the one thing I'd been looking forward to was trying my hand at being commander!
*waits for the teams to be marines:5, aliens:10*
The marines are getting sent in to save an allied ship. Indeed, first spawn should be with full ammo (if thats possible to code). After that, any stupidity is rewarded by a fun *click*click* sound.
I'm not a marines lover but they should get a bit more ammo, 100 rounds REALLY isnt a lot when faced by 2-4 skulks.
Maybe not full then, maybe 50-100 or 50-125, that should even it out, even if just a bit.
note: this was BEFORE the patch
I rushed the marines ALONE (all of my idiotic team mates went gorges as usual) and I almost won the game BY MYSELF! I killed all 6 marines (not the commander though) and I NEARLY got their only infantry portal... it had like one [whatever it's called] left when someone respawned and killed me... If ONE of those idiots on my team just had followed me, then we would have won in below one minute!
Also, as I said in some other thread, the changes will probably unbalance the game for the marines when more skilled aliens start appearing... and especially in clan games...
One server, resource towers cost like 10 and hives cost 40
I should open my own psychic number ...
be like Miss Cleo ...
"I nu et was comin! Ets in da cards!"
You complain and complain and wont listen that its an RP bug.
You complain and complain that it has to be the number of turrets, or the HMG's power or - what ever.
This is what happens when changes are made on a broken resource system.
All I can say is, enjoy the ride, perhaps Flayra will tweak it again in the somewhat near furture.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My ? is why didn't flayra fix the resource bug in the first place? ALso, if he hasn't found the correct way to fix it, isn't this the next best thing? It balances things a bit better on the current resource model, and when he finally gets it fixed, he can just set everything back to normal, and then viola, you have a brand new game again, and then i guess suppose minor tweaks after that.
The only point i see in your post is that people are going to complain no matter what, too which i don't care. Flayra made the game, he should fix it how he wants, not the masses.
1) game comes out. average marine skill > average alien skill, marines beat aliens.
2) commanders start getting better, Marine skill > alien skill.
3) resource bug develops and is put to full use. marines beat aliens 99% of the time. But marine skill is still just above alien skill
4) in response to imbalances, pure alien players start really concentrating on tactics like rushing, diversions, etc. They get good because they have to to atleast survive. Alien skill > marine skill, but marines still win because of imbalances.
5) patch comes out. Imbalances gone. Alien skill > marine skill. now Aliens win alot.
6) one week from now, marines will have developed teamwork and tactics against overwhelming odds, just as aliens did. marine skill = alien skill...all is well in the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm hoping to GOD that this is what truly happens. It makes all the sense in the world, is simple, and straight forward. And, if it does, NS could be the next CS...oh would I love to see that! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
[/me goes to toss in Aliens for some pre-game pumpage]
TJ out.
Now maybe it's just my horrible, horrible luck, I guess, these guys were skilled players, the Marines always worked together, the voice comms were going crazy, "Secure that hive point at all costs!" and all that, and work together they did. One time they actually did it and it was a very close game, but the aliens dominated once they got that hive back. If I recall correctly, not one alien worked as a team, they went their random ways building random things limiting where the Marines could go.
As much as I want to believe you guys that the only reason this weird phenomena of my past 25 games as marine losses is due to the marines having no skill, I'm just going to say that... bloody hell, that's not very likely. I don't even know what the problem is anymore, but I did play alien myself quite a few of those rounds. The rounds where none of the aliens work together are close matches, the ones where they do work together...
<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'> Complete and utter dominance.</span></b>
This really went regardless of whether or not the Marines had skilled players and were working together. It's just simply too hard to get anywhere when your base and expansions are surrounded, and you constantly need resources. So maybe, just maybe, if marines work together, which isn't uncommon at all, and aliens don't, which is very common as well, perhaps you get an even game, but if the aliens are coordinating, then the marines might as well just give up?
I'm tired of arguing, I'm not even trying to argue, I'm just trying to stop you guys from immediately thinking the falsities of what I'm trying to declare here, and give an actual discussion about the issue. Perhaps none of you believe me, and I'm too tired to keep on going today, but when I wake up tomorrow, I want to freaking lose as an Alien when my team is coordinated. When that happens, I'll freak out and give everyone in this Forum 20 bucks.
First five minutes. Aliens coordinate, there's usually 6 or more on each team I've played on today. They attack as soon as they can. They know where the marine base is, and just keep continuing to attack until it becomes too hard because of turrets. Half of them go gorge, a couple gorges save up for hives, the rest build defenses outside the Marine base, and build resource towers everywhere else. Aliens camp outside the base, and the gorges heal their towers, this continues on for about 10 minutes, the marines usually get somewhere, but never manage to secure a hive. Fades with bile bombs and Onos stomping our bases = Game over Marines.
I played at least 15 games today, not one Marine win. I played two games since the patch came out, both alien wins. The marines had enough coordination, almost all the times I played there were constant attacks of groups of marines of 5 or more, and no newbie commanders. Got stomped everytime.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did that exact thing its one of the ways to stop marines dead in their tracks also with a couple defence chambers there its alot harder for them to win. The reason some mariens are lsoing is because now they have to truely work together instead of being a one man army like they used to. It will take abit for them to get used to working as a better team.
<b>The Angry Marine</b>
<i>OMG OMG TEH PATCH FUXXED UP MY GAME I CANT KILL EVERY1 NOW!!!1111</i>
Poor you. Try learning some skill. This isn't Counter-Strike, stop playing it like it. Would you go against 3-to-1 odds in CS and expect to win? No? Then quit whining. You can't rely on your precious turret-spam and HMG any more, meatpopsicle.
<b>The Happy Alien</b>
<i>It's payback time, beotch!</i>
Let's see ... +Fade, -RP cost, turrets die faster ... I like this. Aliens that learned to cope with the previous Marine 0wnage are now going to <b>dominate</b>. We're used to having to nip at your ankles until you drop, and hiding from the almighty HMG squadron. Now that you're going to have to use *gasp* TEAM TACTICS, which no one seems to be able to, it's lunchtime for the Kharaa.
<b>The Troll / Smacktalker / Dumbarse</b>
<i>Shut up, SilverFox ... you don't know anything.</i>
Right. So the little "Playtester" means squat, right? SF knows nothing and is just whining, right?
Try pulling your head out of your arse before posting.
In conclusion, I'd like to hope that Typhon's right, and the Marines will learn how to deal with the balance just like we Aliens did on Day One.
Until then, <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> == a very full and satisfied <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
- M4H
Is it just me or is this a self-contradicting statement?
Just because aliens aren't clustered in a group like the intruders we're trying to cleanse, huddling, afraid, back to back with guns pointed outward.... it doesn't mean they're not coordinating something.
The games I've been a part of where aliens won, it's because you had a strong attack force harrassing the marines, while you had your gorges in separate parts of the level, each chambering up the place. They weren't all in the same area, but we were CERTAINLY coordinating things. Like when I got into the back of the marine base as a lerk and asked for cloaking. I got it and.... had fun till I was finally discovered <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
was kinda funny... i'm saying out loud (you can ask my roommate) "dont look up dont look up dont look up dont look up"... he looks up and waits a few seconds. We started firing at about the same time, but 2 shots kills a lerk (compared to the 15 or so thorns I pumped into his face).
That and your post seemed a little hypocritical in that you're blaming me for being a whiner, when you clearly referred to turning the tables on the marines. Wouldn't that mean that if you thought that it was unfair for aliens before, it is now unfair for marines? I'm not saying any of these things, the game was fine for aliens before the patch, and now it's a little bit easier, but this really isn't about the patch.
All I'm saying is that there's so many fewer options as Humans when you only have your base and maybe one or two expansions, and you're constantly being attacked. This is why I'm glad the alien respawn time is so long, if it was as short as the Marines, then the Marines would get freaking owned.
I'm not arguing, there's defenses against all this, you can be an excellent marksman, and perhaps split your team into two very well organized teams, one drawing the aliens back, and one defending the expansions, making even more expansions while doing it. It's just that if the aliens are even just slightly organized, the Marines have to be damn well near perfect with shotguns and jetpacks and perfect maneuvering and aiming skills.
I can't believe I'm still arguing, I coulda sworn this is like the fiftieth time I made my point, but the entire point of this post is summed up in the first paragraph.
This post was replying to Mercenary, by the way.
I know I've only played 10 games since the patch came out, which isn't too much considering you need to play a lot more games to accurately test the game, but I was constantly trying to figure out how the marines could adapt to the pwnage, and really failed to see anything. When I was a Marine, there was definetely coordination going on, because we all really wanted to secure a hive point before we got pwnz0red, but coordination simply wasn't enough. Sure, some people still have no will to work as a team yet as Marines, but in the games I've played, the majority of the marines sticked together waiting for orders from an experienced commander, and still lost dramatically.
I'm really curious about actual counters, not just "work as a team and win!1" statement.
I'm not saying I mind that people like aliens or marines more than the other, but please stop talking about it like it's You vs. Them and vice versa. At this point, I'm afraid that simply stating my opinion on this is going to get people yelling "Marine Lover!!!" at me and calling me a whiner. Personally, I <b>always</b> choose random, so I'm pretty unbiased on this sort of thing.
Anyway, just to give my opinion on the matter, I think the majority of the imbalances were caused because of the resource bug. I would have rathered the patch just fix that, add the autobalance, and a change to the grenade launchers. That's not to say that I don't think other things in this patch are necessarily bad, but I think it would have been a better idea to start with small changes to inch towards a balance, as oppossed to possibly overcompensating. Again, just my humble opinion. Tell me what you think, but please stay civil <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->