What's Wrong With Co
Diablo_fx
Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Members
Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Members
<div class="IPBDescription">and focus while we're at it.</div> The things i see that's wrong.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Onos.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Focus, is very common.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Xeno, leap skulks.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Grenade laming.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - The Maps.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Spawncamping
I'll get into every subject hold on, please <u>DO NOT</u> reply if you didn't read it all. Kthx <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1, Onoses.
The onos takes time to kill, and when you're done killing it you get about 30 seconds and it will be rushing your base again. It's simply stupid that it respawns way too fast for the effort and time(including repairing of CC) it takes to kill it.
2, Focus.
I think the way focus works is wrong, the idea was good but not very gameplayish, if you get what i mean. I mean it counters more then 1 upgrade alot of peaple say "armor 1" Yes i know goddamnit! but what then after you get bit by a randon noob super skulk with cloaking and focus hiding somewhere? you're **** next time you see someone. Thats horibly wrong. It's an upgrade which makes sure the Marine HAVE to get armor 1, because without it's simply imposible. There is no marine upgrade allowing you to force aliens to get a counter upgrade, none.
If i need to explain better(which i posibly do) I'll do it after.
3, Leap Xeno skulks.
Being a leap xeno skulk that just wanders around the map watching hes fellow aliens fighting and the decides to sacrifice him self, no upgrade so easy to use shuld be avaible. I mean get leap at lvl 2, bang you can own peaple with it. Kill intul you have 2 lvls(or hang around your teammates if you're a chicken) Get 3rd hive weapons. Then just scount the map for 3-4 marines, the second they meet a fade or lerk or a skulk they don't have time(most of them) to watch for a xeno skulk behind them(he could have silence so they can't hear him too) Then suddenly he killed 4 marines with he's skulk. That's wrong none should be able to kill 4 players like that(note that they could have armor1 and resist the xeno, bu then they are vunalbel for focus.)
4, Grenade spamming.
Grenade laucher was made to destroy stucktures, there is only 1 (alien) struckture in CO why is there a GL? you woundn't need for anything other then spamming around killing skulks and lerks(sometimes even fades). GL spam is just plain stupid.
5, Spme of the maps are extremely JP friendly (hive areas) and some are just JP death. This needs to vari a bit more. Some cellings are so low Onoses devour JPs they aren't supossed to devour jps. Because JP is the ONOS counter. Therefor Onos shouldn't win. Plain Simple.
6, Spawncamping.
Dosn't offer the oppesite team anything but getting instant gibbed(focus helps here too). That kinda wrong, I know it's needed to win atm but IMO it shouldn't be needed to win.
I better do this, *casts protection from fire*.
Anyone agrees? anyone(all?) disagrees?
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Onos.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Focus, is very common.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Xeno, leap skulks.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Grenade laming.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - The Maps.
<span style='color:red'>*</span> - Spawncamping
I'll get into every subject hold on, please <u>DO NOT</u> reply if you didn't read it all. Kthx <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1, Onoses.
The onos takes time to kill, and when you're done killing it you get about 30 seconds and it will be rushing your base again. It's simply stupid that it respawns way too fast for the effort and time(including repairing of CC) it takes to kill it.
2, Focus.
I think the way focus works is wrong, the idea was good but not very gameplayish, if you get what i mean. I mean it counters more then 1 upgrade alot of peaple say "armor 1" Yes i know goddamnit! but what then after you get bit by a randon noob super skulk with cloaking and focus hiding somewhere? you're **** next time you see someone. Thats horibly wrong. It's an upgrade which makes sure the Marine HAVE to get armor 1, because without it's simply imposible. There is no marine upgrade allowing you to force aliens to get a counter upgrade, none.
If i need to explain better(which i posibly do) I'll do it after.
3, Leap Xeno skulks.
Being a leap xeno skulk that just wanders around the map watching hes fellow aliens fighting and the decides to sacrifice him self, no upgrade so easy to use shuld be avaible. I mean get leap at lvl 2, bang you can own peaple with it. Kill intul you have 2 lvls(or hang around your teammates if you're a chicken) Get 3rd hive weapons. Then just scount the map for 3-4 marines, the second they meet a fade or lerk or a skulk they don't have time(most of them) to watch for a xeno skulk behind them(he could have silence so they can't hear him too) Then suddenly he killed 4 marines with he's skulk. That's wrong none should be able to kill 4 players like that(note that they could have armor1 and resist the xeno, bu then they are vunalbel for focus.)
4, Grenade spamming.
Grenade laucher was made to destroy stucktures, there is only 1 (alien) struckture in CO why is there a GL? you woundn't need for anything other then spamming around killing skulks and lerks(sometimes even fades). GL spam is just plain stupid.
5, Spme of the maps are extremely JP friendly (hive areas) and some are just JP death. This needs to vari a bit more. Some cellings are so low Onoses devour JPs they aren't supossed to devour jps. Because JP is the ONOS counter. Therefor Onos shouldn't win. Plain Simple.
6, Spawncamping.
Dosn't offer the oppesite team anything but getting instant gibbed(focus helps here too). That kinda wrong, I know it's needed to win atm but IMO it shouldn't be needed to win.
I better do this, *casts protection from fire*.
Anyone agrees? anyone(all?) disagrees?
Comments
The onos takes time to kill, and when you're done killing it you get about 30 seconds and it will be rushing your base again. It's simply stupid that it respawns way too fast for the effort and time(including repairing of CC) it takes to kill it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Give the onos and level requirement (9) and this should solve the problem, mainly because the onos does drop very quickly against high end weaponry. It's when he shows up at the lvl 6 mark that he's almost an automatic GG.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2, Focus.
I think the way focus works is wrong, the idea was good but not very gameplayish, if you get what i mean. I mean it counters more then 1 upgrade alot of peaple say "armor 1" Yes i know goddamnit! but what then after you get bit by a randon noob super skulk with cloaking and focus hiding somewhere? you're **** next time you see someone. Thats horibly wrong. It's an upgrade which makes sure the Marine HAVE to get armor 1, because without it's simply imposible. There is no marine upgrade allowing you to force aliens to get a counter upgrade, none.
If i need to explain better(which i posibly do) I'll do it after.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm still not sure about focus. It's good, and you do see it a lot, but I tend to think that since the marines can get shotguns by lvl 3, the aliens should be able to get focus by then as well. The two tend to even each other out. Focus is very nasty when combined with a good sporeing lerk; spore to get the armour down, then focus for the kill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3, Leap Xeno skulks.
Being a leap xeno skulk that just wanders around the map watching hes fellow aliens fighting and the decides to sacrifice him self, no upgrade so easy to use shuld be avaible. I mean get leap at lvl 2, bang you can own peaple with it. Kill intul you have 2 lvls(or hang around your teammates if you're a chicken) Get 3rd hive weapons. Then just scount the map for 3-4 marines, the second they meet a fade or lerk or a skulk they don't have time(most of them) to watch for a xeno skulk behind them(he could have silence so they can't hear him too) Then suddenly he killed 4 marines with he's skulk. That's wrong none should be able to kill 4 players like that(note that they could have armor1 and resist the xeno, bu then they are vunalbel for focus.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used to do this a lot, but lately I've stopped. It's a bit of a risky setup, because unless the marines are doing very badly you're constantly clogging up the respawn queue, for what can often be minimal impact. Leap-xeno does reduce the risk of dying before you reach your target, but again; kills are not certain. Perhaps up the energy cost of xeno by a small amount so you can't leap very quickly after activating it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4, Grenade spamming.
Grenade laucher was made to destroy stucktures, there is only 1 (alien) struckture in CO why is there a GL? you woundn't need for anything other then spamming around killing skulks and lerks(sometimes even fades). GL spam is just plain stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
GLs are great when they're used properly, and in conjunction with teamwork. GLers are horribly vunerable to higher lifeforms however. I think the gl is needed however as I've had games where good lerks have kept the hive umbraed and in conjunction with a dedicated gorge rendered the hive nigh unkillable. If it really proves to be a bigger problem than what I believe it to be (I hate HMGs far more), make it 2 points.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5, Spme of the maps are extremely JP friendly (hive areas) and some are just JP death. This needs to vari a bit more. Some cellings are so low Onoses devour JPs they aren't supossed to devour jps. Because JP is the ONOS counter. Therefor Onos shouldn't win. Plain Simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Though the JP is the onos counter, what exactly is the counter for the jetpack? It used to be webs, and to some degree it still is, but with the constant nerfing they've recieved they're rather pathetic. Lerks? Good lerks can chase down jetpackers (I've done it), but a jetpacker of equal skill can usually avoid it. However, jetpacks themselves arn't the problem IMHO, it's the shotgun's power against structures. One run by a jp-shotgunner on a hive can easily take off 50% of it's health, and if you've got 2 then good luck if the map is JP friendly. And then you have resupply to make things worse.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6, Spawncamping.
Dosn't offer the oppesite team anything but getting instant gibbed(focus helps here too). That kinda wrong, I know it's needed to win atm but IMO it shouldn't be needed to win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I LOVED the old spawning in waves system. I LOATHE spawncamping. It's pointless and annoying. Plus it encourages the situation where if everyone on one side is dead, it's pretty much GG.
Combat does need work defenitly.
2. Focus now needs 2 points to get, by that time, the marines have shotguns. By the time they have cloaking, the marines already have level 1. Focus makes the attack slower - if you have shottie and armor lvl1, he bites you, you see him, kill him with 1 shot.
3. Uh... I'm not even gonna touch that one. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> Nothing wrong there... kill em before they hit you!
4. Uh, the hive is a structure... the GL deals out massive damage to the hive. It's purpose then? To win the game!!
5. Deal with it. You can't win em all. If you're a JP'er, than you should learn to deal with the situations. I've found most maps JP friendly, very little aren't.
6. Would you rather the team who's being killed just all spawn back? How is the other team supposed to win?? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just my 10 cents (comes out to about 12 cents with tax).
I'm still not sure about focus. It's good, and you do see it a lot, but I tend to think that since the marines can get shotguns by lvl 3, the aliens should be able to get focus by then as well. The two tend to even each other out. Focus is very nasty when combined with a good sporeing lerk; spore to get the armour down, then focus for the kill.
I used to do this a lot, but lately I've stopped. It's a bit of a risky setup, because unless the marines are doing very badly you're constantly clogging up the respawn queue, for what can often be minimal impact. Leap-xeno does reduce the risk of dying before you reach your target, but again; kills are not certain. Perhaps up the energy cost of xeno by a small amount so you can't leap very quickly after activating it.
GLs are great when they're used properly, and in conjunction with teamwork. GLers are horribly vunerable to higher lifeforms however. I think the gl is needed however as I've had games where good lerks have kept the hive umbraed and in conjunction with a dedicated gorge rendered the hive nigh unkillable. If it really proves to be a bigger problem than what I believe it to be (I hate HMGs far more), make it 2 points.
Though the JP is the onos counter, what exactly is the counter for the jetpack? It used to be webs, and to some degree it still is, but with the constant nerfing they've recieved they're rather pathetic. Lerks? Good lerks can chase down jetpackers (I've done it), but a jetpacker of equal skill can usually avoid it. However, jetpacks themselves arn't the problem IMHO, it's the shotgun's power against structures. One run by a jp-shotgunner on a hive can easily take off 50% of it's health, and if you've got 2 then good luck if the map is JP friendly. And then you have resupply to make things worse.
I LOVED the old spawning in waves system. I LOATHE spawncamping. It's pointless and annoying. Plus it encourages the situation where if everyone on one side is dead, it's pretty much GG.
Combat does need work defenitly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In reply, The actual counter to JP is Lerks and webs as a second slightly less usefull counter.
Onos > HA
JP > Onos
Lerk > JP
HA > Lerk
That's what i've seen anyway.
Nice to see some reply.
Hmm that one's iffy. Jetpackers move so fast and eratically that catching up with them and landing enough bites to kill them is very difficult, not to mention the marine will almost certainly have a shotgun and can take you out with one shot. Then the dreaded resupply comes into play. As a dedicated Lerk player, I really have a hard time chasing down jetpackers, and I've been playing since 1.0
The biggest problem I've seen with jetpackers in the hive is simply that because it is such a massive threat (due to shotguns' damage vs hives) that the whole alien team has to make a group effort to take down one member of the opposing team. Unsurprisingly, the rest of the marine team will show up at the hive pretty quickly whilst the Lerks are desperatly trying to umbra the hive AND chase down a jetpacker, the gorge is flat out healing the devestating damage from the shotgun on the hive, Fades are trying to blink-swipe the jetpacker, and skulks try to leap-kill. The marine side will then simply unload thousands of rounds of lead and high explosive into the hive area and cut the alien team to ribbons.
If the Lerk truely is the counter to the jetpacker, then they need to be better at that role.
Hmm that one's iffy. Jetpackers move so fast and eratically that catching up with them and landing enough bites to kill them is very difficult, not to mention the marine will almost certainly have a shotgun and can take you out with one shot. Then the dreaded resupply comes into play. As a dedicated Lerk player, I really have a hard time chasing down jetpackers, and I've been playing since 1.0
The biggest problem I've seen with jetpackers in the hive is simply that because it is such a massive threat (due to shotguns' damage vs hives) that the whole alien team has to make a group effort to take down one member of the opposing team. Unsurprisingly, the rest of the marine team will show up at the hive pretty quickly whilst the Lerks are desperatly trying to umbra the hive AND chase down a jetpacker, the gorge is flat out healing the devestating damage from the shotgun on the hive, Fades are trying to blink-swipe the jetpacker, and skulks try to leap-kill. The marine side will then simply unload thousands of rounds of lead and high explosive into the hive area and cut the alien team to ribbons.
If the Lerk truely is the counter to the jetpacker, then they need to be better at that role. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were meant to be the JP counter but i agree, they need major boost to catch those JPs now a days.
I think the way focus works is wrong, the idea was good but not very gameplayish, if you get what i mean. I mean it counters more then 1 upgrade alot of peaple say "armor 1" Yes i know goddamnit! but what then after you get bit by a randon noob super skulk with cloaking and focus hiding somewhere? you're **** next time you see someone. Thats horibly wrong. It's an upgrade which makes sure the Marine HAVE to get armor 1, because without it's simply imposible. <b>There is no marine upgrade allowing you to force aliens to get a counter upgrade, none.</b>
If i need to explain better(which i posibly do) I'll do it after.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm aliens have to get carapace to stay alive longer that counters the weapon damage upgrades, focus is just like a weapon damage upgrade.
So umm yea there!
lol me 1 - 0 you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->, Spme of the maps are extremely JP friendly (hive areas) and some are just JP death. This needs to vari a bit more. Some cellings are so low Onoses devour JPs they aren't supossed to devour jps. <b>Because JP is the ONOS counter. Therefor Onos shouldn't win. Plain Simple.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you trying to say that JP should be able to win every fight vs onos 100%?
Anyway it depends on the JPer ability to fly anyway, if he just flys straight he's obviously more likely to be killed then some one using fancy flying techniques.
You forget that the GL also clears webs, and plays a vital role in this respect. However, I really don't think gorges should be in combat at all, and if gorges go, GL needs to go. I would much rather the hive/CC heal themselves at a respectable rate, such that nobody has to bow out of the action to keep the base alive, yet a losing team cannot keep thier base alive indefinately.
Focus is needed because resupply, particularly on a jper, requires it. If JP/resupply worked anything like how it does in classic, it would not be needed so badly. Alternatively, focus can be changed to only kill completely armorless marines in one hit, and not level 0, 25 armor marines, which would still be a big help. Naturally, attack speed would have to change. There are plenty of topics on the subject, if you're interested in more detail.
Also, combat is generally too fast paced for welders to be used effectively.
edit: also, keep in mind that there generally is more than one person on a team. Two xenociding skulks can kill huge crowds of marines, and hundreds of welders raining from the sky won't save them.
THAT'S THE POINT!
jesus...
the problem with wave spawning is it makes death less meaningful. If one team manages to get EVERY SINGLE player on the other team dead at the same time, they deserve to win. They don't deserve to have an entire team spawn around them and slaughter them instantly.
I think combat is pretty good in its current form... not perfect, but there's no glaring problems with it. The main problem with combat (and ns in general) is that most pubbers don't know how to play the game well. It just makes me sad when I see a fade take 3 shotty blasts while walking at me and then try to swipe me and I kill him. If they're using cloakers, get scan. Use welders to keep your teammate's armor up. Teamwork is important. I've been thanked less for gettng 40+ and killing the hive as a shotpacker than I have been for getting early scan and welder to keep my teammates alive.
You may ask, how do I fight as an Onos? My typical Onos build is carapace/regen/redeem/celerity in combat, redeem <b>does</b> work if you're not stupid with it. Whenever people get **** at me, especially other Onos, for blocking their way out while I'm trying to go in. I just laugh at them because they're in the process of devouring a marine and trying to hide behind a wall. When I'm an Onos, I use it like he's an offensive tool that help's other alien's to get other kills because the marine's <b>always</b> consentrate their fire on the closest Onos instead of any other Skulks/Fade's in the area that are killing more marines.
Now.. the #2 problem with Onos is HMG vs Onos. Currently, no matter how many hive's (classic) or what level carapace you have. A lvl 3 HMG will take down one (non-regen) Onos in one drum. Which basically mean's two HMG's can take down an Onos within half-a-drum each. Though, an early Onos has the advantage at first, by the end of the game. Three rushing Onos would usually die for each Fade that went down.
2. Focus. We all hate it, nobody really asked for it, though it was put in anyway. Making focus 2 point's was the best bet of atleast discouraging focus useage on the mass scale. Though you have to admit, focus is garbage on Skulk's. Giving the alien's the ability to inflict double damage in one contact hit make's shotgun look like a playtoy. Shotgun, a.k.a "Sparkler Gun™", is the probally the worst gun in the game to use against Skulks/Fade's that are moving around alot. Shotgun inflict's 18.7 damage each pellet and spray's about 10 pellet's out in one blast. Though, it's still ironic how it'll sometime's take you 2-3 blast's to take out one Skulk when it only require's 5 out of 10 pellet's to fatally wound it. Fix the hitboxes and focus would seem more balanced early game.
3. Leap + Xenocide. Effective early game, little to useless mid-late game. Xenocide rushing doesn't alway's turn the tide of the game much like an earlier Fade could do. Though, it's still effective at taking out mobs of marine that are in distance of the blast range. But, once marine's start getting Armor 2 and HA's. Xenocide just become's garbage and you'll be lucky to take out two marine's in one blast.
4. Grenade Spamming. Grenade spamming doesn't exist if your entire team is Fade/Onos. Grenade spamming is cried out by whining n00b's who are actually still Skulks/Lerks. But, once you become a Fade or Onos, GL's are obsolete unless you have no carapace left over. The only problem with GL is that direct hits on the hive usually do 4% a hit per. grenade. If you're lucky enough to get off 8 grenade's in total, the hive would usually be pretty much on the verge of death anyway.
5. Bad Maps. There isn't a single combat map that isn't just one sided to either marines or aliens. Some map's have horribly unbalance marine spawns and some have horribly unbalanced alien hives.
6. Spawncamping. Spawncamping can only be classified only when there's only 1-2 alien's actually hitting the chair while 5-8 are preparing for the next marine to spawn.
jps stand no chance if you are of even moderate skill and you follow this scheme...lerk is definately the jp counter and even though classic lerk is a support class, combat lerk can be a tank if played correctly
I think the way focus works is wrong, the idea was good but not very gameplayish, if you get what i mean. I mean it counters more then 1 upgrade alot of peaple say "armor 1" Yes i know goddamnit! but what then after you get bit by a randon noob super skulk with cloaking and focus hiding somewhere? you're **** next time you see someone. Thats horibly wrong. It's an upgrade which makes sure the Marine HAVE to get armor 1, because without it's simply imposible. <b>There is no marine upgrade allowing you to force aliens to get a counter upgrade, none.</b>
If i need to explain better(which i posibly do) I'll do it after.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm aliens have to get carapace to stay alive longer that counters the weapon damage upgrades, focus is just like a weapon damage upgrade.
So umm yea there!
lol me 1 - 0 you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->, Spme of the maps are extremely JP friendly (hive areas) and some are just JP death. This needs to vari a bit more. Some cellings are so low Onoses devour JPs they aren't supossed to devour jps. <b>Because JP is the ONOS counter. Therefor Onos shouldn't win. Plain Simple.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you trying to say that JP should be able to win every fight vs onos 100%?
Anyway it depends on the JPer ability to fly anyway, if he just flys straight he's obviously more likely to be killed then some one using fancy flying techniques. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sinspawn, just aim better and carapace is useless. No upgrade needed,
and forlorn Don't hijack me thread kthx..
I think the way focus works is wrong, the idea was good but not very gameplayish, if you get what i mean. I mean it counters more then 1 upgrade alot of peaple say "armor 1" Yes i know goddamnit! but what then after you get bit by a randon noob super skulk with cloaking and focus hiding somewhere? you're **** next time you see someone. Thats horibly wrong. It's an upgrade which makes sure the Marine HAVE to get armor 1, because without it's simply imposible. There is no marine upgrade allowing you to force aliens to get a counter upgrade, none.
If i need to explain better(which i posibly do) I'll do it after.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aww so it seems you must HATE playing alien, and do nothing but play marine every single time you play? well im sorry but i doubt the game will change to benefit marines (anymore than it does now) because u dont think its fair to have a skulk kill a level 0 armor marine <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>YET</span> I don't see you complaining about Marines getting shotguns and killing basically every skulk, lerk, and gorge on the team EVEN if they HAVE carapace!, your views are all one sided
My suggestion: some of your ideas are alright, but dont address any issues, all you seem to bring up the fact that "Aliens are WAYY to strong!" which as of B4 is quite impossible. THink of the game BALANCE wise. Not "marines WIN every game they play".
Now that i set you straight because all you want is to "nerf aliens beyond existance" which at the time, any more nerfage and nobody would bother playing aliens anymore. YOU should play on the alien team. How would you like to go onos and DIE to 1 single jetpacker? or go skulks, but have no focus against a resupply level 3 armor 3 shotgun Jetpacker? huh. Seriously....
sorry if i seem a bit hotheaded, but as you can see i usually play aliens, and i really can't stand when people want 1 single marine to win the game, this isnt cs or dod. if you want "1 hero to win the game/round" deal, go play those games. But if you want balanced, fun, wave upon wave clashing game, then feel free to continue playing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and please dont bother to try and make a "comeback" on my comment(s) because as we can all see, your only 1 sided, u want marines to win every game. All of your comments on everyone elses are "Thanks for hijacking my thread", or "aliens are too strong" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There's no truth to it, seriously. Marines DO have one upgrade that forces aliens to get a counter. SHOTGUNS. anything less than a fade (or even a fade sometimes) will go down in ONE SHOT to a shotgun at close range. This is a fact: SHOTGUNS FORCE ALIENS TO GET HIGHER LIFEFORMS. period. Carapace does nothing for anyone but a gorge, but then why would a gorge need to run at shotgunners in the first place.
Truth be told, im tired of the 10 armor default skulk. It takes the average marine with decent aim 1/4-1/3 of an lmg clip to kill a skulk, honestly. The only reason aliens seem strong at all is 1) they tend to move in groups a LOT more due to hivesight warnings 2) they can easily recover health and (more importatly) armor after surviving a battle by rushing back to the hive or having regen 3) finally their ability to wear down marines if they happen to be weaker than them, marines tend to lack the ability to "Wear down" an alien target of similar strength like an onos or fade, aliens are all or nothing melee rushers, not ranged powerhouses like marines.
It comes down to this. Marines are actually a lot stronger in terms of damage that can be dealt. A level 2 shotgun does 200 damage per hit people. This is usually the gun every marine in combat has, and can kill any skulk in one shot, carapace or not. This is a hell of a lot better than focus will ever be. Don't complain about onos being too strong, because thats the point. This topic is all about the ramblings of an alien hating marine stacker who just wants to see even MORE marines stomping all over aliens.
Have you ever noticed that when marines win they REALLY win, as in the aliens never had a chance? Thats because if the marine team really works at it, they can win very easily, but this doesn't happen very often in combat OR in classic NS, so the result is a majority of alien wins.
Remember, aliens can't do shotgun rushes.
Fix the spawn system, and marines will use HA more. A bunch of HAs manage to fight off a large gorup of aliens. Now, they takes about 7 seconds to reload, and then right when they're about to start welding each otehr, the next batch of newly-minted ONOs and fades start charging in!
I suggest both sides a 3 second invincibility time when spawning in, and whenever an alien spawns back in, he needs to re-evolve all of his upgrades/evolutions. He is also invincible while in egg form. This way, killing an ONOS will actually mean something. The ONOS will need more time to get back into the action. Same idea with Fades.
The marines get no such penalty because they have a timer to win.
Anotehr idea is remove resupply, while giving all marines a toned-down version of it, and a welder, for free. Outiside of a certain radius of the CC, this resupply will only give a medpack once every 45 seconds or a minute. The rest of the time, it will only give ammo. When near the CC, the resupply works like it does now.
In return, aliens can no longer get regeneration as an upgrade. Fades also can't get metabolize. Instead, they can skip straight to acid rocket.
Now, JPers will definitely not last a minute inside a hiveroom unless the aliens are really incompetent, and the auto-comm rarely hands out medpacks, making focus not that important.
There's no truth to it, seriously. Marines DO have one upgrade that forces aliens to get a counter. SHOTGUNS. anything less than a fade (or even a fade sometimes) will go down in ONE SHOT to a shotgun at close range. This is a fact: SHOTGUNS FORCE ALIENS TO GET HIGHER LIFEFORMS. period. Carapace does nothing for anyone but a gorge, but then why would a gorge need to run at shotgunners in the first place.
Truth be told, im tired of the 10 armor default skulk. It takes the average marine with decent aim 1/4-1/3 of an lmg clip to kill a skulk, honestly. The only reason aliens seem strong at all is 1) they tend to move in groups a LOT more due to hivesight warnings 2) they can easily recover health and (more importatly) armor after surviving a battle by rushing back to the hive or having regen 3) finally their ability to wear down marines if they happen to be weaker than them, marines tend to lack the ability to "Wear down" an alien target of similar strength like an onos or fade, aliens are all or nothing melee rushers, not ranged powerhouses like marines.
It comes down to this. Marines are actually a lot stronger in terms of damage that can be dealt. A level 2 shotgun does 200 damage per hit people. This is usually the gun every marine in combat has, and can kill any skulk in one shot, carapace or not. This is a hell of a lot better than focus will ever be. Don't complain about onos being too strong, because thats the point. This topic is all about the ramblings of an alien hating marine stacker who just wants to see even MORE marines stomping all over aliens.
Have you ever noticed that when marines win they REALLY win, as in the aliens never had a chance? Thats because if the marine team really works at it, they can win very easily, but this doesn't happen very often in combat OR in classic NS, so the result is a majority of alien wins.
Remember, aliens can't do shotgun rushes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, the fact is that higher lifeforms force marines to get shotguns, since if aliens just stayed skulk/lerk the whole time LMG's would be fine
Also, remember, there are plenty of a ways for a skulk/lerk (who get blasted in 1 hit) to kill a SG, but there is practically no way in hell you are gonna LMG a good fade or onos.
Anyhow i'm just saying that it only seems that aliens are stronger because like it or not, it takes less skill to be an excellent alien than it does to be an excellent marine.
Aliens can rush in and attack if the odds are against them and have a chance to come away with a kill, marine however will be chewed up and spat out (literally).
Being a good marine means knowing the map, where to stop, where to expect skulks to come from, how a fade/onos might escape from firefight, moving as a group when need be and ramboing when you need to, etc.
This is why a team of random pubber marines will lose almost 90% of the time to a random alien pubber team (as the statistics seem to show, i just made up the 90% but it's probably more than 50% for sure.)
anyhow, there's a lot of good ideas floating around, including the unchaining of chambers. I'm sure flayra and the dev team will find the right balance eventually.
The onos takes time to kill, and when you're done killing it you get about 30 seconds and it will be rushing your base again. It's simply stupid that it respawns way too fast for the effort and time(including repairing of CC) it takes to kill it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
a plain onos (level6) is really easy to kill for equivalent levels of marine in team, 2-3 marines can take him down easily and is not much trouble in base.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2, Focus.
I think the way focus works is wrong, the idea was good but not very gameplayish, if you get what i mean. I mean it counters more then 1 upgrade alot of peaple say "armor 1" Yes i know goddamnit! but what then after you get bit by a randon noob super skulk with cloaking and focus hiding somewhere? you're **** next time you see someone. Thats horibly wrong. It's an upgrade which makes sure the Marine HAVE to get armor 1, because without it's simply imposible. There is no marine upgrade allowing you to force aliens to get a counter upgrade, none.
If i need to explain better(which i posibly do) I'll do it after.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mines have the same effect, they are 1 hit kill on skulk except if they have Carapace. If a skulk is damaged and he steps on mine he is dead. (nades do the same thing to)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3, Leap Xeno skulks.
Being a leap xeno skulk that just wanders around the map watching hes fellow aliens fighting and the decides to sacrifice him self, no upgrade so easy to use shuld be avaible. I mean get leap at lvl 2, bang you can own peaple with it. Kill intul you have 2 lvls(or hang around your teammates if you're a chicken) Get 3rd hive weapons. Then just scount the map for 3-4 marines, the second they meet a fade or lerk or a skulk they don't have time(most of them) to watch for a xeno skulk behind them(he could have silence so they can't hear him too) Then suddenly he killed 4 marines with he's skulk. That's wrong none should be able to kill 4 players like that(note that they could have armor1 and resist the xeno, bu then they are vunalbel for focus.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nades and mines for marines do the same thing, you can get many kills on a mine if you know how to use them, same for nades. and silence doesn't stop the sound of Xeno.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4, Grenade spamming.
Grenade laucher was made to destroy stucktures, there is only 1 (alien) struckture in CO why is there a GL? you woundn't need for anything other then spamming around killing skulks and lerks(sometimes even fades). GL spam is just plain stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Grenade "spamming" (I prefer to call it barrage fire, or area control) is very useful to keep lower life forms out of a room, it helps to clear vents and "foxholes" Gl have it's use in CO_
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5, Spme of the maps are extremely JP friendly (hive areas) and some are just JP death. This needs to vari a bit more. Some cellings are so low Onoses devour JPs they aren't supossed to devour jps. Because JP is the ONOS counter. Therefor Onos shouldn't win. Plain Simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah maps that are easy on JP are also easy on Fade(or even lerk on some occasion) and vice versa
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6, Spawncamping.
Dosn't offer the oppesite team anything but getting instant gibbed(focus helps here too). That kinda wrong, I know it's needed to win atm but IMO it shouldn't be needed to win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you get spawn camped, you are already dead. Spawn camp is like extermination of last resitance while destroying the HQ.
(as usual only read the first few posts >_<)
anyways
the only problem is the spawn system...
id rather wate based on my lvl then this one by one, come to my spawn and kill all one by one gg.
gl is not a problem because two many gl's = a lost game.
the real problem...
two hive lvl Co = an even fair fight (for the most part)
one hive lvl Ns = team two playing the short end of the stick untill hive three (and even then its not a easy win).
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*gasp*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WTH? aliens are a lot harder to play than marines.
Pub marines lose because they CANT SHOOT FOR ****. When you can have a marine unload his entire clip at you and only hit with 4 bullets, it's very very easy to play skulk =\
Try playing a game with people who have a clue and see how the aliens do. The only thing that makes co winnable for aliens is leap and someone managing to pull of a rush to fade or lerk with a couple necessary upgrades.
The closest marines have is the jp, but that's not quite controllable enough to zoom in on someone and escape alive. The hive, however, is an easy target, and hitting that is where the jp really shines. You can concentrate on evasion while still dealing massive damage.
edit: play=player
With netplay being what it is, and how fast any alien class can move with just a couple of the right upgrades (*COUGH*ANDSCRIPTS!*COUGH*), I'm amazed aliens aren't winning every single game in pubs. I definitely have alot of respect for the marine who can just stroll into the hive, dance around the skulks, own them all with his shotty and single-handedly win the game, and you definitely see it alot less than the fade who ends at 100 - 5 for kills and deaths.
Spawnkilling is getting really annoying. So annoying I even madea multi-purpose bind.
bind l "say Hacker/Cheater/Spawncamper"
Nuff of my whining.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, remember, there are plenty of a ways for a skulk/lerk (who get blasted in 1 hit) to kill a SG, but there is practically no way in hell you are gonna LMG a good fade or onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've killed agood share of Onos's with LMGs. STAY IN GROUPS or just get on a box. They can't hit you or stun you that way.
Yeesh
The closest marines have is the jp, but that's not quite controllable enough to zoom in on someone and escape alive. The hive, however, is an easy target, and hitting that is where the jp really shines. You can concentrate on evasion while still dealing massive damage.
edit: play=player <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens are supposed to be different than marines, i dont see skulks shooting marines, or marines biting aliens.
13-15 lmg bullets to kill a damn skulk, 1 shotgun blast to kill a skulk 3-5 hmg bullets to kill a skulk. (AT LEVEL 0 WEAPONS)
Why are you complaining about focus when all you do is cant aim well? if anything you should complain on how marines who can aim easily own aliens.
Jetpack/Shotgun, PLEASE please PLEASE do not even Dare say leap + focus is better than that. Because it's not.
What it all comes down to is Marines have shotguns, only 5 shots to kill a fade, get in a group and STOP RAMBOING. THis thread is all about complaints on how aliens are so OVERPOWERED because all you marines do is RAMBO. Teamwork>aliens, it all comes down to on what team has better cordination and teamwork. Dont complain on how another team is so overpowered because you cant kill a fade 1 on 1, and your not supposed to incase you havent figured that out yet.
Marines have a distinct advantage for much of the game. They just don't understand that this IS NOT COUNTER STRIKE. Once they understand that "hey, if my 3 friends and I move together as a group, and keep a close watch over the whole area we're moving through, we'll be able to get to and attack the hive," then the game isn't unbalanced. It's when terrible noobs wander off with either just themselves or one other noob that the game isn't balanced, because obviously the super skulk, who's quite a bit more experienced and better at the game, killed them both before they knew what happened.
Combat mode forces most players to work together, something unusual and interesting for a deathmatch based game mode. That's why I like combat so much. While classic continues to get worse, combat just gets better, and ever more interesting.
This thread is all about nerfing the Kharaa side more. That's seriously the last thing that the Kharaa need. Another nerf. If you bothered to play the Kharaa side, you'd know that the Kharaa that are owning you have learned their weaknesses in game and have overcome them. The Kharaa have far more weaknesses than the marines do. Stop crying and understand.