Polygons On V_models
Sid
Corwid of the Free Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12903Members, Constellation
Corwid of the Free Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12903Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Do we *REALLY* need to keep cutting?</div> First of all, I know the Half-Life engine is aging-
But I've been seeing it everywhere on the forums. It's almost like the Polygons are evil. It's strange - no one dares to go past "x" amout of polygons, or thier machine "will implode with the fury of a thousand Suns."
Well, thats not true. Having a 3000+ Polygon v_model will not impact performance! (Well, it will - but it's impact is probably around 0.5% on the average computer) - and considering that today's gamer has ninteen billion fans, and a bujillion-kujiggawatt processor, with an API+2 Graphics card... and all those other texture groping features...
I really think not having a "high" polygon v_model is going to smoke your rig - even on an older computer.
Here's why:
Having a 3000 polygon w_model is bad - because whenever someone dies, they drop an ugly 3000 polygons on the map.
And, having a 3000 p_model is bad, too - because each of your teammates are totting around an gnarly 3000 polygons.
<b>BUT</b>
A 3000 polygon v_model is not a bad thing - considering that there is only <i>one</i> of them. - The one thats in your view.
Go ahead call me a n00b - 'cause I'm sure you guys know this, right? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyways, thanks for your time,
-Sid
But I've been seeing it everywhere on the forums. It's almost like the Polygons are evil. It's strange - no one dares to go past "x" amout of polygons, or thier machine "will implode with the fury of a thousand Suns."
Well, thats not true. Having a 3000+ Polygon v_model will not impact performance! (Well, it will - but it's impact is probably around 0.5% on the average computer) - and considering that today's gamer has ninteen billion fans, and a bujillion-kujiggawatt processor, with an API+2 Graphics card... and all those other texture groping features...
I really think not having a "high" polygon v_model is going to smoke your rig - even on an older computer.
Here's why:
Having a 3000 polygon w_model is bad - because whenever someone dies, they drop an ugly 3000 polygons on the map.
And, having a 3000 p_model is bad, too - because each of your teammates are totting around an gnarly 3000 polygons.
<b>BUT</b>
A 3000 polygon v_model is not a bad thing - considering that there is only <i>one</i> of them. - The one thats in your view.
Go ahead call me a n00b - 'cause I'm sure you guys know this, right? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyways, thanks for your time,
-Sid
Comments
i kid, i kid. I agree full-heartedly, half life is a decent engine and having one high poly model wouldnt hurt it much, so use as much polys as needed. but i think everyone here already knew that, i mean i only see the deletion of faces on valve models, and some cs customs.
heres to high poly models
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aye, im with him
A 3000 poly weapon won't impact performance, on it's own. You throw in an entire base full of weapons, your own team and the opposing team, add a dash of map r_speeds, maybe a little other effects and a slight amount of dynamic lighting, and you have a lagging NS all because of a weapon with a high polycount.
The engine can handle a 3000 poly weapon with ease, on it's own, but if you put it into a full game of NS, it drastically hurts your performance. This isn't because my computer sucks, i like to think a 2.6GHz, 512mb with a Radeon 9600 can handle a 3000 poly weapon and a 5 year old game engine, it's just the fact that the engine really hates to render too much.
Take mapping for instance, the recommended r_speeds levels for official maps is 750 w_poly (1000 for comm) and 2100 e_poly. This is quite restrictive, we'd all like to go over that limit and splash out with a little detail, but you start to realise that the more you do, the more the engine hates you.
It's a crap old engine that is way past it's prime.
A 3000 poly weapon won't impact performance, on it's own. You throw in an entire base full of weapons, your own team and the opposing team, add a dash of map r_speeds, maybe a little other effects and a slight amount of dynamic lighting, and you have a lagging NS all because of a weapon with a high polycount.
The engine can handle a 3000 poly weapon with ease, on it's own, but if you put it into a full game of NS, it drastically hurts your performance. This isn't because my computer sucks, i like to think a 2.6GHz, 512mb with a Radeon 9600 can handle a 3000 poly weapon and a 5 year old game engine, it's just the fact that the engine really hates to render too much.
Take mapping for instance, the recommended r_speeds levels for official maps is 750 w_poly (1000 for comm) and 2100 e_poly. This is quite restrictive, we'd all like to go over that limit and splash out with a little detail, but you start to realise that the more you do, the more the engine hates you.
It's a crap old engine that is way past it's prime. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
esuna gets a cookie.
and the modelers feel like they should also satisfy them, i'd say boooooo
give us high poly models !!!!!
sorry darksoul but highpoly models is not a matter of power machines and hardware.
its the engine that restricts you. If i make a higpoly version of my models with lets say about 7000 for a v_ model than your game will start to lag.
I have a
3.0 GHZ
1 gig ram
radeon 9800 xt
and it WILL lag i can assure you that because it doesnt matter what hardware you run.
The code of the engine isnt capable of rendering that much polys at the same time.
if so i could porduce a farcry like level and player models with 100 fps a second wich i do have when playing farcry.
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(and he just said pretty much everything i had to say)
*ducks and covers*
Hm, ingame fps stay at 100 and I don't experience lag or anything with other medium/high polycount... So I guess that's still OK <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
BTW wasn't there a thread about someone testing it with massive tf spam?
Your machine definately does affect performance though. Its a piece of written software, so if your machine is faster, its going to be able to cope with the demands from the software faster surely, there may be an upperlimit but your machine has to affect performance.
i'm sticking with sid...i'll quite happily use a 3000 poly weapon model, NS doesn't complain at all. Its a different matter for world models, etc, but meh.
the Systems plays a freaking BIG part in this fps system,
BUT
okok you can ahve a killer rig no prob but you wont be able to gain the same fps with the same amount of polys like in a max payne 2 game. 8)
lets saz
ns (custimized) 50.000 polys per scene 60 fps
Max Payne 2 50.000 polys per scene 130 fps
these are not the exact correct fps but its a hint to point out what i meant
Adding tons of polys to a v_model doesn't make you a better modeler, nor does it make your model a better looking one.
I mean, a full functionnal model isn't just about the polycount. It's also about the layout of the polys, the proportions, the UVW map, the skin, the animations, the origin, the tweaks and a lot of other things.
For example, when i made my TSA Issue knife, i could of make it with 5k of polys. But i didn't.
Why? Cuz it looks just as good with the current count of about 400 polys.
The skins does the rest.
Should i have bothered putting in more?
No! Frankly, i dont stand there and look at my V_model because i know there are skulks willing to drop on me from the ceilling to eat my legs and arms.
The "novelty" of a 3000 poly model wears off pretty quickly. IF you want a model with a lot of detail, it doesn't mean it has to have 3000 polys either.
most of the guns your downloading do have a poly count over 4000 so saying you want 3000 poly model is a bit odd <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Adding tons of polys to a v_model doesn't make you a better modeler, nor does it make your model a better looking one.
I mean, a full functionnal model isn't just about the polycount. It's also about the layout of the polys, the proportions, the UVW map, the skin, the animations, the origin, the tweaks and a lot of other things.
For example, when i made my TSA Issue knife, i could of make it with 5k of polys. But i didn't.
Why? Cuz it looks just as good with the current count of about 400 polys.
The skins does the rest.
Should i have bothered putting in more?
No! Frankly, i dont stand there and look at my V_model because i know there are skulks willing to drop on me from the ceilling to eat my legs and arms.
The "novelty" of a 3000 poly model wears off pretty quickly. IF you want a model with a lot of detail, it doesn't mean it has to have 3000 polys either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
THX for this post
A good modeller makes a model at the lowest possible polycount and still archiving amazing amounts of details.
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The problem is, people don't want to make two models, one for v_ and another for p_ and w_. So, there you go.
A good modeller makes a model at the lowest possible polycount and still archiving amazing amounts of details.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
what he said <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's also my oppinion. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
most of the guns your downloading do have a poly count over 4000 so saying you want 3000 poly model is a bit odd <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was using "3000 Polys" as an example.
And, to respond to BP (Who we know is an awesome modeler <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
You do bring up a point. May points. Modeling is an art, not just a... thing. But what I'm saying is - there are skilled modelers out there that take a GREAT looking model (That would run perfectly under the HL engine) and go, "Ugh! I gotta shave off some polys." when they don't need to.
That's what I'm trying to say. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
also means MORE WORK!
No really, when you're trying to optimize a model that has like 1k polys, it's rather easy. But when it's got lots, you can get yourself a lot of extra work fitting meshes together.
And last but not least, if you screw up a highly complicated mesh by giving it tons of polys..
I'll be laughing at you when ill be making the same mesh in 5 mins wile still keeping the same shape <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->