What Is Up With Leap And Blink ?

Kove · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">It sometimes just kills me :|</div> Well, yeah - Why? Is it a bug?

Blink sometimes just kills me when I teleport into a Marine. *Blink* Black screen, and then there's my death icon in the corner. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

Same happens with leap, when I just leap around - It mostly comes when I leap to the roof.

It's really really pissin' me off - After I spend time Evolving to Fade, and 3 udgrades - And then I just die because of some lame bug <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

SuperMunchkin · November 2002

Hmm, haven't had this happen to me yet nor have I seen anyone else witht he problem. I'll see if I can go test that out...

Flayra · November 2002

Kove, this is because you're using a script. NS has code to make sure players can't exploit the game, and the way it does this is by making sure you don't use alien abilities that aren't your current weapon. If you do this, you are killed immediately and a message is logged on the server. Don't use scripts, or change your scripts to add waiting while your weapons switch.

LaserApa · November 2002

Did you make some sort of keyBind for Pounce and blink?

Like press one button and it selects slot one attacks and select slot one again? if you did thats the problem. Flayra put code in there to stop some cheats and it reacts to this type of keybinding as well <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

I'd like to see this fixed, or even better, have one touch keybinds for alien attacks in the regular menu so anyone can use them. But after all its a pretty insignificant problem so far...

Edit:

Dang it, Flayra beat me to it....

Necro · November 2002

well similar things happen to me...except i use no script.

Pudwack · November 2002

I as well dont use scripts and it wasnt with blink. I was Using Charge on an enemy and right as i bumped into him my screen whent black and i coudl still here myself moving and gunfire but then it just randomly killed me like a suicide. Has happened to me lerk, fade, and onos, never skulk, or gorge and never any marine. i wonder if it was a size bug? also it seems like its really easy to get stuck in this mod on elevators in doors, i was wondering if there are any plans to reduce that?

HavoK · November 2002

I have had several incidents where my Skulk will just die in mid-leap. I use no scripts, and I don't even think I switched weapons at all. It's almost as if the game couldn't figure out what to do with me so it assumed I was out of the map or something. I think in all cases I was leaping over or directly onto turrets and other structures. It has happened to my fade also while Blinking. My screen just goes black and I get the generic "died" icon.

It doesn't happen very often though. Maybe once every 5 or so games. I just try not to use special powers near turrets anymore. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

I can also remember one occasion where I was going to Xenocide some turrets, and instead of blowing up, I just died. The countdown timer had gone down and everything.

RhoadsToNowhere · November 2002

I've gotten hit with this more than a few times during playtesting, and a couple of public games too. And no, I don't use scripts or even weapon binds -- I just use my number keys and hud_fastswitch 1. I'm just used to switching between weapons really quickly thanks to SI and HLDM, where weaponswitching is basically necessary in order to survive against top players.

Anyway, I don't know if the anti-script code is done server-side or client-side, but if it's server-side, I'd think it'd be very possible for a player to switch weapons and attack before the server realizes that the player had switched between weapons. Which would lead to players unfairly being killed in the way they are now, especially if the server is somewhat laggy (a not uncommon occurance, unfortunately).

Kove · November 2002

Nope, I don't use scripts <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

But apart from this lil' issue, great mod <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>
Just wish I'd knew what triggers it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

*Edit* Doh, I know. Flayra told me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. */Edit*

Freemantle · November 2002

I have a slight problem to address as well. Three times now the completion of a defensive chamber underwater has killed me. The kill is by worldspawn. I am not <b>in</b> the building. What gives?

Kove · November 2002

*Deleted*

Error <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

guagle · November 2002

I died once while using phase gates as a fade: I just stepped into it, teleported to the TSA base and died all of a sudden. Same as everybody else: black screen and death icon.

I wonder if it is the same bug or something else. Got any ideas?

WarpZone · November 2002

I don't know about this dying stuff, but a lot of the time, fade simply WILL NOT WORK for me. It's like I'll test-fade in a hallway a few times, and everything works fine... but then when some marine starts shooting me and I REALLY NEED TO FADE, my alien just swings his claws like an idiot and dies. It's not a lack of weapon energy. That was the first thing I suspected, but fade has failed to kick in even when the bar is full. What gives?

Legionnaired · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WarpZone @ Nov 6 2002, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I don't know about this dying stuff, but a lot of the time, fade simply WILL NOT WORK for me. It's like I'll test-fade in a hallway a few times, and everything works fine... but then when some marine starts shooting me and I REALLY NEED TO FADE, my alien just swings his claws like an idiot and dies. It's not a lack of weapon energy. That was the first thing I suspected, but fade has failed to kick in even when the bar is full. What gives?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
the area yo uare blinking to is probably too close, and if any part of your body is going to hit any part of the world, your blink stops.

Necro · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (guagle @ Nov 6 2002, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I died once while using phase gates as a fade: I just stepped into it, teleported to the TSA base and died all of a sudden. Same as everybody else: black screen and death icon.

I wonder if it is the same bug or something else. Got any ideas?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
you were probably telefragged (someone came thru the phasegate right after you!)

WolfWings · November 2002

Okay, um... no. There <b>must</b> be a better solution than killing players...

I just got around to cleaning up my configuration to have what I have in most mods, a seperate 'fire' key for each seperate weapon. Yes, I have one of those 'too damn many keys' pads just for extra binds.

Doesn't even need scripting for this, in NS's case I could use up the eight 'finger' keys in pairs, one per weapon slot with "hud_fastswitch 1" and the row below it entirely bound to firing, so I could just hit a finger down to use, say, blink, then another finger to slash.

And THAT kills me? That is unfair to those that want to play at a higher level, if you use a weapon too soon after picking it, you DIE? No, the weapon just shouldn't work. You don't kill a player for having too unique a keyboard configuration, or reflexes that are too fast. That's not a fair metric of cheating, how fast someones reflexes are?

I appreciate the reasoning, but gods... that's just the wrong solution, as it doesn't catch the cheaters, fixing the code so the exploit doesn't happen in the first place catches the cheaters.

This... is just going to catch the top-end players and those that afford higher-end controllers to, as cliche as it sounds, take it up to the next level.

Yes, it'll catch those using one-key-leap binds, but isn't that the point of the aliens abilities, to have to switch back and forth rapidly between them as they use them against marines? That you can't beat a marine with just a Fade's slash, you need to blink up to one, slash, blink away, then back again to the next, slash, slash, acid bomb and blink up just after it hits, slash again. As it is now, you blink, slash, blink, bli... black screen.

Acrobad · November 2002

I had several happenings of these too where i just die mysteriously while desperately trying to attack people.

And I swear I don't use Scripts. I'm not even sure what they actually are!

But If i guessed it right, it's because I was switching weapons too fast or turning too fast so the server thinks I'm using script or the like...

so what is script anwayys? like binds or cheat hard codes into dll?

I know this has happened to numerous people who doens't use scripts or whatever it is... is there a way to prevent this happeneing?

Jorderon · November 2002

I think I have been summarily executed by this "anti-exploit" feature. Although I haven't had the time to create a blink script, im still trying to work out the specifics on how the ability works. I think I have the general idea however.

If this anti-exploit code is server side, I think it should be either made client side or outright removed. Random deaths because I know how to switch weapons faster than my ping shouldn't happen.

Scripts are not exploits as far as im concerned, anything that can be done within the game is fair play imo. However im not the developer and I haven't seen blink or leap truly used to scripting potential. It just sucks to die because I can switch weapons <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> .

Nullzero · November 2002

Yeah, I've been killed by it too before... I think for switching weapons too quickly... where I'd leap at a marine, then immediately switch to bite to go in for the kill.

It's kind of annoying to die, but it seems to happen very rarely... I, for one, am thankful for some anti-script code... some of that stuff gets really ridiculous... especially in a game like Counter Strike, where people bind the AWP, then switch to Deagle almost instantly.

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Nullzero

BJayD · November 2002

I've had the same problem with Onos charge, I don't use any scripts and I don't even use hud_fastswitch 1, I'd say it is something to do with the anti script code but obviously been triggered wrongly.

Nullzero · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WarpZone @ Nov 6 2002, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I don't know about this dying stuff, but a lot of the time, fade simply WILL NOT WORK for me. It's like I'll test-fade in a hallway a few times, and everything works fine... my alien just swings his claws like an idiot and dies.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Check out my post here for some tips on using blink:

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=8909&view=new' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...t=8909&view=new</a>

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Nullzero

MMZ_Torak · November 2002

I've gotten stuck in the ceiling tryin to blink on top of something. I've also just died after evolving.

Lord_Chambers · November 2002

I tried switching to slash after blinking right next to a marine, but I fumbled, and blinked right at him, point-blank. It killed me.

Why is this thread pinned by the way? Is the official position that we are using scripts and dying as a result? Is it pinned as an illustration of an ongoing investigation? A petition for all those who have died to sign their name and be heard? More fan fiction designed to advance the story line?

mcevil · November 2002

hmm... first off I use scripts, not cheating scripts just ones to use less keys to do more things. And I never been killed when using them? The think I want to change with my scripts is adding a secondary fire for alians, becuase I am left-hand-retarded so I cant switch weapons very well. I dont think this is cheating and the "black death" only seams to kill people who arnt using scripts anyways... ...but perhaps it is holding a hord of cheaters at bay and is well worth the handfull of random kills. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Tao · November 2002

Just wanted to say that I use hud_fastswitch 1 and that it works fine for marines but not for aliens. Personally I don't see how this is really a cheat, more of a convenience <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

StoneToad · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Nov 6 2002, 06:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Don't use scripts, or change your scripts to add waiting while your weapons switch.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Are you refering to something like the following:

alias +axeattack "slot1; wait; +attack"
alias -axeattack "-attack; wait; lastweapon"
(yes, I know lastweapon doesnt work right now. It's from my engy scripts for tfc)

Will this work? Or is that considerd a cheat?

FiNE · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nullzero @ Nov 6 2002, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It's kind of annoying to die, but it seems to happen very rarely... I, for one, am thankful for some anti-script code... some of that stuff gets really ridiculous... especially in a game like Counter Strike, where people bind the AWP, then switch to Deagle almost instantly.

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Nullzero</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

In counter-strike that type of thing is NOT a script, just hit "lastinv". Anyways, talking about lastinv... why doesn't it work in NS?

Shifty_Eyes · November 2002

"In counter-strike that type of thing is NOT a script, just hit "lastinv". Anyways, talking about lastinv... why doesn't it work in NS? "
No, he means the script where you fire an awp, immediately switches to de, ,and as long as you fire the de is out, as soon as you stop, it goes back to the awp.

StoneToad · November 2002

I think that's really a mod bug, it should have server (or client with anti-cheat like VAC) enforced time-to-switch weapons or something. Doesn't FLF do something like that? Whatever mod it was I remember it takeing a bit of time to swap weapons, which depended on how large and bulky the one you where switching to/from was.

Flayra · November 2002

This topic is pinned because I've been asked a lot about it, and I was hoping to spread the word. I didn't think the kill code would happen unless players were deliberately trying to abuse the system, but seeing how that's not the case, I'll look into fixing it or removing it.

As far as "just fixing it", it's much easier said then done (else I wouldn't have put in this inelegant solution).

CForrester · November 2002

How about just having it watch client-side then communicate to the server whether or not they used a script/cheat? Also, you could add a setting like sv_stopscripts and if it were 0, it would simply reject the script data. If it were 1, it would analyze it and if they scripted/cheated, prevent them from doing it. It sounds complicated but I could draw up diagrams that explain it simply.

What Is Up With Leap And Blink ?

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