Where Is The Team Work?
LittleToe
Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19163Members
Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19163Members
<div class="IPBDescription">ok people it's not that bad</div> while i admit the kharra got the short end of the stick in the last Rc it is not that bad. games are still playable and you can still win.
This is for a pub game 10-12 vs 10-12
i see these thing going on all the time
1)only 1 or 2 people drop rts. often times it is the same people that then get the chambers. this is not good in large pub games. you want 4 rt's to start (3 can work but not as well). the first one that gets to 40 rez gets the chambers (unless they are a good fade). when you get the second hive and fade/s then it is time to expand. at this point you will want at lest half the number of rt's as player on your team (10 player = 5 rt's)
let the mariens have their rts by their base. let them build a base in the 3rd hive. it dose not matter as long as you can maintain your rez flow.
2)no one responds to the red dot on the hud or the calling of the hive "rt under attack". you must defend the rt's.
3)someone needs to save for hive from the start. someone needs to save for fade from the start.
4)every one seems to be scouting around. thats all good but where is the pack of skulks that is going to crush the advance? if you are all spead out on the map you will ether not reach the location in time to do any good or you will be rushing head long one by one at them to your death. at the start you only thing you should be doing is defending rt's, the location of your second hive and a forward point (such as nano, south loop, mess hall or cargo).
this means 2-3 scouts and the rest in a group defending the current gorge/s. the scout spots the enemy and wates for the pack. then all move in at the same time. dont hold back you are only hurting the team. running will only get your self killed (most of the time).
5)stop droping oc's all over. only put oc's in siege spots (maybe a few in the hive 3-4) but be ready to drop oc's in the hive/s if a jp rush happens. once you are ready to exspand (second hive and fades) go ahead and spam oc's all over.
the exseption is if your start hive's nearest rt is the same as the nearest rt to marine start (unless it is easaly defaned by skulks). the idea is rt's are more important than oc's and if you lose any rt's at any point you need to have the rez to put the rt's back up right away.
6)learks are not killers. at one hive keep your distance and spore them. at two hives rebember to umbra your team even if they are just skulks. it realy helps a lot. learks make good scouts. just stay on your toes 30rez is not cheap and your death will only hurt your team.
7)fades are not tanks (or onos for that matter). hit and run. you must live at all costs. if you die you may have lost the game for your team.
8)fades are great at distracting marines. half a secound after the fade rushes the marines folow him in (just stay two steps behind, folowing him in and the timeing will be fine). this buys you some time to get the marines before they can shot you. it also alows the fade to get away with out you getting in his way.
i've got more but i need to sleep...
please add more. we need to fix this lack of team play going on right now.
This is for a pub game 10-12 vs 10-12
i see these thing going on all the time
1)only 1 or 2 people drop rts. often times it is the same people that then get the chambers. this is not good in large pub games. you want 4 rt's to start (3 can work but not as well). the first one that gets to 40 rez gets the chambers (unless they are a good fade). when you get the second hive and fade/s then it is time to expand. at this point you will want at lest half the number of rt's as player on your team (10 player = 5 rt's)
let the mariens have their rts by their base. let them build a base in the 3rd hive. it dose not matter as long as you can maintain your rez flow.
2)no one responds to the red dot on the hud or the calling of the hive "rt under attack". you must defend the rt's.
3)someone needs to save for hive from the start. someone needs to save for fade from the start.
4)every one seems to be scouting around. thats all good but where is the pack of skulks that is going to crush the advance? if you are all spead out on the map you will ether not reach the location in time to do any good or you will be rushing head long one by one at them to your death. at the start you only thing you should be doing is defending rt's, the location of your second hive and a forward point (such as nano, south loop, mess hall or cargo).
this means 2-3 scouts and the rest in a group defending the current gorge/s. the scout spots the enemy and wates for the pack. then all move in at the same time. dont hold back you are only hurting the team. running will only get your self killed (most of the time).
5)stop droping oc's all over. only put oc's in siege spots (maybe a few in the hive 3-4) but be ready to drop oc's in the hive/s if a jp rush happens. once you are ready to exspand (second hive and fades) go ahead and spam oc's all over.
the exseption is if your start hive's nearest rt is the same as the nearest rt to marine start (unless it is easaly defaned by skulks). the idea is rt's are more important than oc's and if you lose any rt's at any point you need to have the rez to put the rt's back up right away.
6)learks are not killers. at one hive keep your distance and spore them. at two hives rebember to umbra your team even if they are just skulks. it realy helps a lot. learks make good scouts. just stay on your toes 30rez is not cheap and your death will only hurt your team.
7)fades are not tanks (or onos for that matter). hit and run. you must live at all costs. if you die you may have lost the game for your team.
8)fades are great at distracting marines. half a secound after the fade rushes the marines folow him in (just stay two steps behind, folowing him in and the timeing will be fine). this buys you some time to get the marines before they can shot you. it also alows the fade to get away with out you getting in his way.
i've got more but i need to sleep...
please add more. we need to fix this lack of team play going on right now.
Comments
This is how it should be, since the Kharaa are supposed to be "all-rambo" and gorging only optional. In v1, there was only 1 or 2 gorges at max. At any given time. Or you would get shot to the groin. Just imagine starting the same with the whole team and you get my point. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->someone needs to save for hive from the start. someone needs to save for fade from the start.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
About the hive, I agree; been so from the start, but how do you save for it when everyon is 'supposed' to build an rt and then go for RFK-hunting?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->every one seems to be scouting around. thats all good but where is the pack of skulks that is going to crush the advance?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could ask that myself, but if you do not scatter out, the ninjas will get your hive and ramboes your res, and if you do; it's pretty damn hard to regroup. On pubs: impossible to do inside the next 20 seconds (when that PG is being build) and that location is soon lost for good.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but be ready to drop oc's in the hive/s if a jp rush happens. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At that point, no amount of OC's are going to save your butt; game over. Besides, "a few" won't help. At all. There has to be "a lot" and all around the location. Otherwise they just build the PG behind the corner, or place a CC to suck them up. Then they crush them all with the same siege that will take your hive down. Also, check <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74463' target='_blank'>THIS</a> thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->learks are not killers. at one hive keep your distance and spore them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you know there was a thread about "Spelling in Forum Threads...?" Check it out. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Like with OC's, I think lerk usefulness has been discussed to death in another thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->fades are not tanks (or onos for that matter). hit and run. you must live at all costs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the question is: what are they? Skulks can do that hit-and-run far better by simply rushing at them and dying, and do the same damage to top it. If fade and onos cannot take that job, there is no retaking already lost locations and aliens have two excessive classes to waste res on.
If you are on a 7-man team with, say, two potential good fades.
Imagine the potential fades go fade.
Two othees build an RT.
One goes Lerk and dies.
One goes fade and dies.
One builds DCs.
Where does that get us? Correct, a hive-less alien team. Sadly, it happens all too often, and even more often, the good fades get bitched at for "res whoring" while the ones that died and werent good fades, in fact could have lost their team the game because that one player couldve put up that vital second hive.
Seriously, the newer players should be stressed to play gorge/skulk only, because new players at higher lifeforms can and WILL lose you the game, quite often.
If the newer players want to play fade or lerk, there's always combat.
ok my friend
1 or 2 rt's droped is not enough rez flow to beat the marines (get fades before the armory is done up grading)
the kharra are not rambos. they may have been at some point but it was changed because of the more powerful team work hax.
i never said every one build an rt. you need 4 rt's. 3 rt's can work but it will make the game that much harder. your upgrades, hive and fades will come later in the game.
with only a few skulks hanging about in a few locations (one by the start hive, one by the soon to be second hive and may be one patroling the rt's and the rest at the forward point in a group) you can respond to the threat in time and no one will get past as long as the scouts are in good places.
it takes no time to assemble because you already are asembled.
fades/onos are not tanks. you cannt rush in and kill all the marines in a group all at one time because you will die (if they are skilled/have wepons. even lvl 3 lmg's will cut a fade down)
the point is to play smart and stay alive you must have support (most important with the onos).
skulks are not hit and run. they are all or nothing. do to the low hp/ap you will kill them or they will kill you. it is very seldom a skulk will make it out of harms way befor dieing. in the marines eyes a kharra on the run is weak and a prime target.
oc's suck. we all know this but they do help. placed in the right areas they will aleart your team if any marine shoots them. the oc'c will also hurt them makeing it easyer to kill them. i did not at any time say that oc's will defend a place by the selves.
you can retake lost areas of the map but you have to have fades, an onos, two hives and support from the rest of the team. it is better if you let them fortify the 3rd hive because it is rez spent for nothing (once you have the above you can take down any location short of marine start).
and i just have to say not only did i read both the posts you put up but i responded in both the posts you put up. it seems to me you need to read them again (one for the reson for my poor english and the other for the uses of oc's)
and while we are at it about the spelling/grammer. i have to say i had a hard time reading your post do to the wording. it made sence after giveing it a secound look.
i was not going to say anything about it because it did make sence after reading a secound time.
please be a little more understanding about peoples short comeings because i am 100% sure you are not perfect your self.
buggy...
this is for a pub game. sorry i did not make it clear.
edit...
goes and wrights "this is for a pub game 10-12 vs 10-12".
this is for a pub game. sorry i did not make it clear.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It was perfectly clear to me.
The problem is unresponsive players who simply can't understand that with a shared resource system comes the priority for cooperation.
Just spend a night on a server where every single round only 2 aliens would cap RT... noone else would drop or defend them, and if you made the mistake of dropping ANY upgrade chamber then the whole team went fade.
Not one could understand the need for res or hives, or why anyone should go gorge other than the same two people round after round.
the more players you can get to rush the marines the more targets the marines have to aim at. yes some of you are going down but the rest will make it to the target.
when ever posable try and bate out some of the marines to lessen their numbers a bit before you all go for in for the kill and if all marines try and push jump them. marines on the move are easyer to kill because they are moveing and trying to aim at a moveing target at the same time. if they camp and refuse to move well gg for you. the longer they wate to make a move the stronger you will become.
use the same rules for the one on one attack for the group attack. if you run into the problem where they are where they should not be (say hive in danger), it is far better to all rush them at the same time then to go in one by one to your death. yes it is a make or break deal but at that point you have been forced into it and your only chance is to attack in force head on.
now if you have a bit of time and their advance has stalled (aka camping) and you cannt bate some out, move some of you force behind them and do a little 1, 2, 3, go. this manuver can be a problem if the flank team getts caught up in a fight before they are in possion or if the marines suddenly move out.
the counter to the team work hax is to have team work as well.