Give the arms more HP, and if it gets destroyed, and you had > lvl 1 upgrades, it sets you back to that, for both armor and weapons. Then you have to re-get lvl 2-3 which would compensate for the time it takes a hive to go up, +the 40-50 res it takes.
When you lose a hive, usualy the second one, because hive3 is overkill usualy, you lose your hive2 abilities, which for every lifeform is the most important ones usualy, cept for maybe leap compared to xenocide. Also you lose a spawn point, a res node, usualy, the ability to build more of the upgrade chamber that was attached to the lost hive, and your armor effectiveness goes down by 50%. These are a bit more important than an advanced armory, its more like an armory, arms lab, and IP to me, along with a res node usualy.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nuclear Core Meltdown+Jul 15 2004, 08:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nuclear Core Meltdown @ Jul 15 2004, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When you lose a hive, usualy the second one, because hive3 is overkill usualy, you lose your hive2 abilities, which for every lifeform is the most important ones usualy, cept for maybe leap compared to xenocide. Also you lose a spawn point, a res node, usualy, the ability to build more of the upgrade chamber that was attached to the lost hive, and your armor effectiveness goes down by 50%. These are a bit more important than an advanced armory, its more like an armory, arms lab, and IP to me, along with a res node usualy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well lets compare... hive and res node costs 55 res armory, arms lab, IP, and res node costs 70 not including any upgrades (i think...might be off by 5?) so really that hurts marines more, res-wise <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, the alien team losing a hive means they FAILED as a team (and conversely, the marines succeeded as a team), it's supposed to hurt them A LOT. A ninja skulk shouldn't be able to have that kind of impact by destroying 1 building.
<!--QuoteBegin-altairian+Jul 16 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (altairian @ Jul 16 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well lets compare... hive and res node costs 55 res armory, arms lab, IP, and res node costs 70 not including any upgrades (i think...might be off by 5?) so really that hurts marines more, res-wise <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, the alien team losing a hive means they FAILED as a team (and conversely, the marines succeeded as a team), it's supposed to hurt them A LOT. A ninja skulk shouldn't be able to have that kind of impact by destroying 1 building. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For one, that's not a fair comparison as it is much much much harder for an alien to accrue 50 res for the hive+gorge than it is for the comm to put down ips, arms lab, armory, etc. Now if there was a perma-gorge like in v2.0 then there would be no big problem here--easier to get res.
And if a single skulk munches your arms lab, get out of the comm chair and kill him or beacon--these are luxuries that the alien team doesn't have. A pack of mines every now and then will usually do the job.
And still, a single marine can usually take a hive pretty much alone. It is often a single marine who sneaks in a phase gate and puts up the TF. By then it's often too late as it is difficult for the alien team to get to and protect the second hive being built w/o movements and a failed rush by the aliens in defence makes it impossible to defend that hive because they'll all be bogged down in the spawn queue.
Your missing the thing that you talk about losing the hive location and the marines getting it. Killing 1 structure of marines isn't close to this since you lost not only the hive but chambers and the rt. It would be the same when you take down the whole rine base (pg/obs/advarmory/ips/armslab/cc/proto/rt/and turrets if)
If marines just rush the hive and take it down and than die so you keep the location the chambers and the rt than it would be same as taking down the armory since the build time and res cost of adv armory and hive are almost the same.
Losing the Advanced Armory, and Arms Lab is ten times worse than losing a hive as an alien.
I find that when playing Khaara, if we lose a single hive, it is rarely very difficult to take back unless the marines relocate there, or lock it down like no other.
But playing from the Marine side, i've been part of a rush against hive number two before, shotguns and heavy weapons only. We lost our Arms Lab in that battle (which we were winning at that time) and as soon as it went down, we were slaughtered.
Atleast as Khaara you can still keep the chamber after the hive has been lost, you just lose the one new attack. The marines lose all of their armor and weapon upgrades at once, it sucks. And if there is the freak occasion when you manage to lose your Arms Lab along with your Advanced Armory, the marines might aswell throw in the towel. (Not that i'm advocating EVER GIVING UP! o.O; I'm one of the guys who will fight to the very end.)
Well, an arms lab takes what, 20 res and 10 seconds to build with one person, and marines get their upgrades back instantly. Even without an advanced armory, you still have access to shotguns, which are the most effective weapon available, it can handle anything but an onos. Even if marines rush and kill a hive and all die, more than likely the entire alien team is mostly dead. All marines have to do is beacon and their team is all back and ready to go, while aliens have to wait 30 seconds or more to come back sometimes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And still, a single marine can usually take a hive pretty much alone. It is often a single marine who sneaks in a phase gate and puts up the TF. By then it's often too late as it is difficult for the alien team to get to and protect the second hive being built w/o movements and a failed rush by the aliens in defence makes it impossible to defend that hive because they'll all be bogged down in the spawn queue. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHAT?! A single marine taking down a hive? ......sigh This is why I can't play ns maps on public servers anymore. People don't even ATTEMPT to use their brains.
Ok lets think now...how could you POSSIBLY prevent a marine getting in to a hive without being seen...... hmmm...... I have an idea! Have an alien stick around near the hive and watch for incoming marines! It sounds pretty crazy I know, but it just might work! Oh oh oh and then, when that alien sees one or many marines coming to the building hive, he tells his team, and some of his teammates come and HELP HIM KILL THE MARINE(S)!!
Pub players wouldn't understand this, but this game is about teamwork. Teamwork > skill. It really is a shame that organized play has such a stigma about it now...it's so much more interesting playing on a team of people that you know and you can actually use strategy rather than hoping some people decide to be team players so the res **** and rambos don't screw your team over.
Comments
well lets compare... hive and res node costs 55 res
armory, arms lab, IP, and res node costs 70 not including any upgrades (i think...might be off by 5?)
so really that hurts marines more, res-wise <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, the alien team losing a hive means they FAILED as a team (and conversely, the marines succeeded as a team), it's supposed to hurt them A LOT. A ninja skulk shouldn't be able to have that kind of impact by destroying 1 building.
armory, arms lab, IP, and res node costs 70 not including any upgrades (i think...might be off by 5?)
so really that hurts marines more, res-wise <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, the alien team losing a hive means they FAILED as a team (and conversely, the marines succeeded as a team), it's supposed to hurt them A LOT. A ninja skulk shouldn't be able to have that kind of impact by destroying 1 building. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For one, that's not a fair comparison as it is much much much harder for an alien to accrue 50 res for the hive+gorge than it is for the comm to put down ips, arms lab, armory, etc. Now if there was a perma-gorge like in v2.0 then there would be no big problem here--easier to get res.
And if a single skulk munches your arms lab, get out of the comm chair and kill him or beacon--these are luxuries that the alien team doesn't have. A pack of mines every now and then will usually do the job.
And still, a single marine can usually take a hive pretty much alone. It is often a single marine who sneaks in a phase gate and puts up the TF. By then it's often too late as it is difficult for the alien team to get to and protect the second hive being built w/o movements and a failed rush by the aliens in defence makes it impossible to defend that hive because they'll all be bogged down in the spawn queue.
Killing 1 structure of marines isn't close to this since you lost not only the hive but chambers and the rt.
It would be the same when you take down the whole rine base (pg/obs/advarmory/ips/armslab/cc/proto/rt/and turrets if)
If marines just rush the hive and take it down and than die so you keep the location the chambers and the rt than it would be same as taking down the armory since the build time and res cost of adv armory and hive are almost the same.
I find that when playing Khaara, if we lose a single hive, it is rarely very difficult to take back unless the marines relocate there, or lock it down like no other.
But playing from the Marine side, i've been part of a rush against hive number two before, shotguns and heavy weapons only. We lost our Arms Lab in that battle (which we were winning at that time) and as soon as it went down, we were slaughtered.
Atleast as Khaara you can still keep the chamber after the hive has been lost, you just lose the one new attack. The marines lose all of their armor and weapon upgrades at once, it sucks. And if there is the freak occasion when you manage to lose your Arms Lab along with your Advanced Armory, the marines might aswell throw in the towel. (Not that i'm advocating EVER GIVING UP! o.O; I'm one of the guys who will fight to the very end.)
WHAT?! A single marine taking down a hive?
......sigh
This is why I can't play ns maps on public servers anymore. People don't even ATTEMPT to use their brains.
Ok lets think now...how could you POSSIBLY prevent a marine getting in to a hive without being seen...... hmmm......
I have an idea! Have an alien stick around near the hive and watch for incoming marines! It sounds pretty crazy I know, but it just might work! Oh oh oh and then, when that alien sees one or many marines coming to the building hive, he tells his team, and some of his teammates come and HELP HIM KILL THE MARINE(S)!!
Pub players wouldn't understand this, but this game is about teamwork. Teamwork > skill. It really is a shame that organized play has such a stigma about it now...it's so much more interesting playing on a team of people that you know and you can actually use strategy rather than hoping some people decide to be team players so the res **** and rambos don't screw your team over.