1.01 Makes Being A Commander Difficult Nowadays..
GravitonSurge
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6138Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6138Members
Well, since the patch everything costs a little bit more, and thats really screwing up stuff because half of the time, 3 marines cant hold a resource nozzle against two skulks long enough to get turrets up, or only the factory gets up and they just chew it up. Wonderful. Also, guns are just rediculous. I can hardly ever afford to give my teammates a hmg (note: they can never hold a **obscenity** nozzle), and then they **obscenity** about it, claiming that they can't hold a nozzle without a hmg. Catch 22. It was doable pre-patch, but I'm finding it plain frustrating now.
Oh, and it'd be nice if turrets ever hit skulks when they are attacking the base. Ever.
Oh, and it'd be nice if turrets ever hit skulks when they are attacking the base. Ever.
Comments
You can no longer establish base and leave it.
You have to establish, gather the resources needed, equip yourselves, then abandon base.
The aliens, however, now get to create a large infestion (sp?) wich they are supposed to.
I can't argue that a skulk or two wouldn't have finished the other guys off - but who's to say it wouldn't have been even again.
Are you suggesting that marines can't kill anything at all, in a group, starting out ? That they can't build any resource collectors ?
When are these guys bitching about HMGs ? Putting down the first two collectors ? If so, that's pretty unreasonable and they should back off - but is it so bad you can't expand ?
That's just wrong.
oh and <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> is not less than or even equal to <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 turrets placed on either side of a factory make it pretty hard for any skulk.
* hard to hold it when they go right for the factory
* circle strafe and the turrets never hit them<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So at least you can get it built, and a fact and a couple of turrets. Were you left to defend it alone ?
You've got me interested now - I've learned to always move to avoid the slow tracking, but never considered jumping into a cluster of them, with marine(s?) and just taking out the factory.
After the factory fell, and the turrets stopped working, you and your comrads fell prey ? No kills ?
and im liking the patch muchos, ive one even amounts of games wit aliens and marines, but the auto team balance doesnt seem to work <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
"So at least you can get it built, and a fact and a couple of turrets. Were you left to defend it alone ?"
90% of the time while building the marine dies to a skulk who he can't hear because of the bzzt sound from building, and if he doesn't, he dies during a fight, even while I'm dropping life on him.. most marine players have no aim.
"You've got me interested now - I've learned to always move to avoid the slow tracking, but never considered jumping into a cluster of them, with marine(s?) and just taking out the factory."
They only take out the factory after the marines have been slaughtered, and in the rare case that the skulk dies, he brings along two friends next time.
"After the factory fell, and the turrets stopped working, you and your comrads fell prey ? No kills ?"
Even if we manage to kill them all (which we sometimes do), we have just wasted 60~ resources and can't afford to do anything but sit and be attacked again while the aliens make 4 offensive turrets at both sides of our base.
Usually when it's 3 marines holding down a node and 2 skulks rushing my team can easily kill off the skulks, though at the same time losing 1 or 2 comrades. If you are commanding and your group of three marines can't even kill ONE skulk from a pair, then they have VERY bad aiming skills.
and are u finding that the skulks are pounding your new beautiful resource node wave after wave, before your marines can get to it? If so, look around, are there any hives near that base? If the skulks can spawn closer to that node than your marines, then maybe you should consider taking another node, further away? It's all very flexible, but the commander is the one that must realize that, and change strategies, positions and such accordingly.
I just finished a game on Hera, and the marines won beautifully, WHENEVER I moved out of the spawn I can ALWAYS look around and see at least another 2 teammates along my side. Whenever we want to grab a new node, usually 2 people builds, while the other guards. TRUE the builders can't hear aliens coming, but they CAN hear their teammate firing into the fray, in which case they stop building and turn around.
I play small games, (4v4 or less) and usually two guys die, one is asking for a shotgun while the other two are respawning, and nothing happens, the expansion is razed. Usually I try to pop out and kill the skulks myself (which I do) but then some other noob takes commander and doesn't do **obscenity**, I ask him to get out, he doesn't respond, we eject him, I get in, then he ejects me back and nothing happens. We lose. And yes my marines ALWAYS have CRAPTASTIC aim then ask for another hmg right after they can't kill a skulk with it. If I don't provide it, they eject me. On the rare chance that I have one good ally, we can get some work done, but hes overwhelemed by himself.
Also, I always try to build away from the hive. You think it works, but it doesn't. The skulks run too fast to the nozzle, while a gorge is building turrets on your other entrance. Yay.
oh its in the emoticons w00t
oh and <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> is not less than or even equal to <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 turrets placed on either side of a factory make it pretty hard for any skulk.
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Let's work this one out a bit. This is how it goes <i>every</i> game.
* Factory Built
* Two-four turrets built
* Two marines guarding/or maybe none
* Single skulk walks in, running around like crazy, kills one/two marines, dies to turrets from having to stand still to chomp the marines
* Skulk respawns and runs back, takes bites out of factory while running in circles
* Skulk dies, occasionally
* Skulk repeats this process until factory is dead, maybe even gets some allies to help
Welder, you say? HA! We just spent all our money on those 3 turrets and that precious 'shotgun' that cost me 23 and you just died randomly with.
And don't think I'm placing them badly, I put them like an X, with the center being the factory.
go find somewhere to download mIRC, if you don't already own it which I am assuming you do, and on gamesnet, join the channel #thetheory
As far as Marine teams go, people let's not forget something here, this is still a FPS, and who wins in a FPS? The person who can aim and kill, and whoever can do it better, faster, and take out the most people with out dieing or before dieing
So yea GS< you need better Marines, that channel are some great marine players, check them, (or I could say us), out sometime
It was quite possibly the most draining 40 minutes of my gaming lifetime, but we won, and it was worth it.... It was like having 12 whiney children... luckily, they followed most of my orders.
However, it is QUITE possible to win. I sent a 6 man team out to claim nodes, and a 2 man scouting party, which later started claiming nodes as well. The six man team eventually started getting their crap together, started working as a unit, and for that, I rewarded half the team with shotguns. We then secured the sewer hive with 5 turrets, got the node outside the hive, and then headed off towards the ventilation hive...
That was draining. We spent about 10 minutes and 60 RP's over that one room, and then the team moved out and set up a point base, complete with armory for restocking ammo, and 5 turrets. I put a phase gate down, and the team beamed back to abse, got HA and HMG's, with 2 "grenade boys", as I call them, and beamed back through. We walked into the generator... and had another 10 minute bloodbath over that room.
In the end, I lost half my squad in that battle, with about 100 RP's going down the crapper from welderboy not doing his job, but we got him taken care of.
In conclusion, commanding is now as it should be. <i>The</i> most stressful role in the game, but also the most rewarding.
I made a deal with my marines that game... "Follow my orders to the "t", and if we lose, it's all ]NSF[Legionnaired's fault."
I suggest all you other commanders out there do that same.
But yeah, I blew off a lot of steam playing, but I think that tired me out for the night...
Goodnight.
As for a single skulk taking out a turret factory surrounded by turrets with repeated rushing, this isn't possible, I mean really. Without celerity and carapace you have at most 10 seconds circle strafing with 3 turrets shooting at you, enough time to get at most 7 bites, thats only 350 dmg with 100 percent accuracy. Turret factories have what, 1000-1500 health? Thats 3 to 5 rushes, easily enough time to get welders to heal it back. This is without ANY marines present, and if you don't have marines helping to hold the base in the begining you have bigger problems. Now with a team of skulks rushing you MUST have a good group of marines to keep aliens back, but it happens all the time on the servers I play at.
Do you disagree with any numbers on this post, if so tell me your assesment of the situation.
01Chrono
As for a single skulk taking out a turret factory surrounded by turrets with repeated rushing, this isn't possible, I mean really. Without celerity and carapace you have at most 10 seconds circle strafing with 3 turrets shooting at you, enough time to get at most 7 bites, thats only 350 dmg with 100 percent accuracy. Turret factories have what, 1000-1500 health? Thats 3 to 5 rushes, easily enough time to get welders to heal it back. This is without ANY marines present, and if you don't have marines helping to hold the base in the begining you have bigger problems. Now with a team of skulks rushing you MUST have a good group of marines to keep aliens back, but it happens all the time on the servers I play at.
Do you disagree with any numbers on this post, if so tell me your assesment of the situation.
01Chrono<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't afford welders once this starts happening. It's madness.
the short: LONG game going back and forth with between hives etc, 2 hours to be exact.
the long: Ok we started off, I jumped in the CC set up inf portals and some turrets+armory then sent 3 of my 5 marines off to secure the maitenance access hive, they get there and it was clear so I told them to stay there while we waited for resources (NOTE: we passed the horseshoe without taking the node!! ), once the room was fortified with 2 turret factories and 5 turrets we set off for the computer core.(I was *VERY* desperate not to lose the hive after one of our comm's bad decisions the game before) We began shaking the computer core hive down to the ground with our LMGs and motion tracking (recently researched by my newly built observatory at base.) We set up phase gates to the computer core and our home base then i noticed that the maitenance was almost gone, so instead of going back there, i threw all 5 of my marines at the other hive, setting up 2 seiges outside it, it soon fell as they got maitenance up. We forified there lightly (3 turrets 1 fac, 1 phase) then I finaly busted out some weponry and gave my team Shotties and HMGs(hadn't even dropped a shotty yet! ). we took over maitenance about 10 min and 40 resources later to find that the comp core had fallen, so I sent my marines outside their base, 1 room away, and set up (get this) 7 seiges!!!! Because i had a HUGE excess of resources, after they set them all up the hive fell in about 20 seconds, with the splash killing off the last of them... Team 1(or is it 2? marines I mean.) win.
Here's where this all is relevant... I DIDN'T get hmgs or even shottguns until 55-60 min into the game, I just used fully upgraded LMGs, why you ask? Because using the LMGs FORCES your marines to stay togather and gives you more resources for upgrades and health/ammo etc. Now you say: AND THEY DIDN'T BOOT YOU? THEY'RE CRAZY! answer: no, I mostly used seiges to break the hives backs, and they almost never had to use their guns on large groups of turrets, plus the lmg was upgraded fully, and their armor was too (NOT HEAVY ARMOR!! I NEVER dropped any of that! )
K have a nice day. -Khaim ]NSF[
*edit* also get this, at the end I only controled 4 nodes, our spawn, the 2 hives, and the south loop area where I set up a minibase.
the short: LONG game going back and forth with between hives etc, 2 hours to be exact.
the long: Ok we started off, I jumped in the CC set up inf portals and some turrets+armory then sent 3 of my 5 marines off to secure the maitenance access hive, they get there and it was clear so I told them to stay there while we waited for resources (NOTE: we passed the horseshoe without taking the node!! ), once the room was fortified with 2 turret factories and 5 turrets we set off for the computer core.(I was *VERY* desperate not to lose the hive after one of our comm's bad decisions the game before) We began shaking the computer core hive down to the ground with our LMGs and motion tracking (recently researched by my newly built observatory at base.) We set up phase gates to the computer core and our home base then i noticed that the maitenance was almost gone, so instead of going back there, i threw all 5 of my marines at the other hive, setting up 2 seiges outside it, it soon fell as they got maitenance up. We forified there lightly (3 turrets 1 fac, 1 phase) then I finaly busted out some weponry and gave my team Shotties and HMGs(hadn't even dropped a shotty yet! ). we took over maitenance about 10 min and 40 resources later to find that the comp core had fallen, so I sent my marines outside their base, 1 room away, and set up (get this) 7 seiges!!!! Because i had a HUGE excess of resources, after they set them all up the hive fell in about 20 seconds, with the splash killing off the last of them... Team 1(or is it 2? marines I mean.) win.
Here's where this all is relevant... I DIDN'T get hmgs or even shottguns until 55-60 min into the game, I just used fully upgraded LMGs, why you ask? Because using the LMGs FORCES your marines to stay togather and gives you more resources for upgrades and health/ammo etc. Now you say: AND THEY DIDN'T BOOT YOU? THEY'RE CRAZY! answer: no, I mostly used seiges to break the hives backs, and they almost never had to use their guns on large groups of turrets, plus the lmg was upgraded fully, and their armor was too (NOT HEAVY ARMOR!! I NEVER dropped any of that! )
K have a nice day. -Khaim ]NSF[
*edit* also get this, at the end I only controled 4 nodes, our spawn, the 2 hives, and the south loop area where I set up a minibase.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*nods*
In that same game, I had 400 RP's to kill by the end of the game.. It's really all just finding creative ways to spend them, once all of your nodes have been fortified.
I think in that game i droped a total of 2 shottys 4 HMG and 4 gren launchers, and that was only when the marines proved that theyw oudlnt waste them and could use them effectively.
Before patch the saying was "Play like a alien, not rambo"
Post patch the saying is "Play like a marine, not rambo"
oh and <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> is not less than or even equal to <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 turrets placed on either side of a factory make it pretty hard for any skulk.
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Let's work this one out a bit. This is how it goes <i>every</i> game.
* Factory Built
* Two-four turrets built
* Two marines guarding/or maybe none
* Single skulk walks in, running around like crazy, kills one/two marines, dies to turrets from having to stand still to chomp the marines
* Skulk respawns and runs back, takes bites out of factory while running in circles
* Skulk dies, occasionally
* Skulk repeats this process until factory is dead, maybe even gets some allies to help
Welder, you say? HA! We just spent all our money on those 3 turrets and that precious 'shotgun' that cost me 23 and you just died randomly with.
And don't think I'm placing them badly, I put them like an X, with the center being the factory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't take out 2 towers and a marine as a skulk, and I am pretty good. If one single skulk is can take out 2 marines and 2 turrets without your backup mollifying the skulk to bits you have the unfortunate luck of having
- 2 players who are actually one celled organisms (though they somehow manage to follow your waypoints)
- and the skulk player must be God
Right there. That's it. Player problem, not a game problem.
Since the patch it is now rather safe to have games of sizes 18 or bigger. And more peeps helps the team which is more powerful (not sure why just always seems to be the case, mainly because team strat harder with large numbers). Not to mention that large numbers of aliens means lot more building, where as large number of marines not effect building speed.
Also most of the alien players played alien from the start, so they know what they doing. Most marines have only really played marines (the learning curve of aliens scared alot of em away), and since rines were so much more powerful in 1.0 most of them still thinking rambo.
Now the patch itself was a bit overkill. Making rines weaker and aliens stronger. One of the biggest arguments being turrets. (Following actually occoured/tested so I dont want to hear any nay saying.)
1. On a 10:10 server, turrets were being setup at The Horseshoe. 5 Skulks attacked it when 3 turrets and 3 marines were there, all with LMG. 4 skulks died as did all the marines and the 3 turrets. (one destroyed other two shutdown when TF taken out).
2. On aliens with two hives up, I (lerk) and a fade went to the third hive which had cpl marines (think HMGs) and 4 turrets and a siege up. The lerk blasted them a bit with rockets as I flew in and umbraed the front line of turrets. The fade atk and took out the two and one rine, the other was running away. I then just continued to umbra while he destroyed the outpost.
Its not a huge deal since its the law of the patch that sides will become switched in power each time. But its seems to be even more unblanced then it was at first (excluding small size servers) with alien win ratio going from 2W:8L to 9W:1L .
So before peeps start saying, oh just use teamplay better or etc. remeber that a lot of people on servers simply wont, they are just looking to shoot stuff, and they usually go marines.