The Rambo
LittleToe
Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19163Members
Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19163Members
<div class="IPBDescription">(seems to be many though)</div> (imo) MT is the cause of most ramoing.
MT is cheap... more coms are reliseing that they can get MT first and still have the upgrades needed to kill early fades. what this does is make skulks useless, unless they pack (leaveing large areas open). ambushing becomes nearly impossable when they get MT. marines > skulks for the most part in a fair fight. in an ambush it is more like 50/50 (one skulk fighting one marine)
also MT makes it imposable to do anything with out being noticed. when you go to move on a base or hive location they know. they are there before you in the case of it being one of their bases and soon to be there in the case of getting a hive up.
the game it self is not unbalanced (not badly anyway). but MT makes skulks next to useless.
(imo) one marien should = dead marine most of the time, not 50/50 chance in ambush. add in MT and the marine has a better than 50/50 chance to win. all that he needs to do is look at the map and keep an eye on the hud (this means looking behind you, something all should do anyway)
i'm nearly always one that will say nerf is not the answer; but in the case of MT it makes the marines less reliant on the com and empowers them to rambo around to good effect.
i've seen i few ideas...
1)MT commander only.
2)MT com only for full map and short range for marines.
3)MT com only for full map and a light on the hud for marines that brightens when the enemy id near.
4)the cost of MT back to 45 (with no change)
MT is cheap... more coms are reliseing that they can get MT first and still have the upgrades needed to kill early fades. what this does is make skulks useless, unless they pack (leaveing large areas open). ambushing becomes nearly impossable when they get MT. marines > skulks for the most part in a fair fight. in an ambush it is more like 50/50 (one skulk fighting one marine)
also MT makes it imposable to do anything with out being noticed. when you go to move on a base or hive location they know. they are there before you in the case of it being one of their bases and soon to be there in the case of getting a hive up.
the game it self is not unbalanced (not badly anyway). but MT makes skulks next to useless.
(imo) one marien should = dead marine most of the time, not 50/50 chance in ambush. add in MT and the marine has a better than 50/50 chance to win. all that he needs to do is look at the map and keep an eye on the hud (this means looking behind you, something all should do anyway)
i'm nearly always one that will say nerf is not the answer; but in the case of MT it makes the marines less reliant on the com and empowers them to rambo around to good effect.
i've seen i few ideas...
1)MT commander only.
2)MT com only for full map and short range for marines.
3)MT com only for full map and a light on the hud for marines that brightens when the enemy id near.
4)the cost of MT back to 45 (with no change)
Comments
Camping in NS is Good
Skulks are fragile lifeforms that bites, and the best way to take advantage of this is camping. With skulks you need to play the psychological side of combat, being hidden in every little corner makes marines fear for their lives as they get out of marine start.
I've making some experiences against motion tracking with camping, the marines may even see your dot going to some corner, if you are far enough the marine probably will forget that you are there, and the success of the ambush only deppends on the right time to attack, it takes a while of practice to get this.
motion tracking became a very useful tool now, but by itself can't hold a good placed ambush. So I recommend you practicing your patience for a right time offensive in an ambush.
Some players said that camping is bad and somethings more, but camping in ns is good, specially if you are an alien.
IMO NS has lost some of this psychological feature of the game, where the marines feared every step outside MS, but I hope in the next patches the devs bring this back, i think this is what made early versions so much fun
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I hope you understand that on every map, MS AND the area outside MS is lit EXTREMLY bright beyond existance. Also all marines know the common ambush spots, if a ambush spot is not common. this means marines can see you.
Littletoe has a very good and interesting point. Motion Tracking does in fact encourage more rambo's. It also defeats the whole point of skulks, which is the bulk of the fighting class for aliens <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Flame :"So what? all aliens need is cloaking nub"
Counter: Aliens RARLY go SC first, if they do go SC first they need to be quick and waste no time getting that second hive up ASAP. Without DCS Onos are even *more* usless, and fades are taken down much more easily, and within pubs players like to take it more easily and enjoy the game and go at a fair pace.
Only solutions i could see is making MT only work within the minimap for marines, reduce the cost to 25-30 res.
--OR--
Unchaining the chambers.
even if its on the border of the mini-map would be usefull
A funky odd idea I had was to make MT like a Motion Tracking Device that takes your slot 1 weapon but shows the area around the person that wields it. Encourages teamwork, but a wacky idea. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <gib me lub gorgey <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <squirts
don't you mean MT makes life Even Easier? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- when u make it sound based = dont u hear the alien footsteps
- loose a wep for mt in a 6v6 ? = 4 rines vs 6 aliens
- mt only for comm = bad idea i dont need mt i can hear them
- mt only for a short distance = can u tell me that a skulk is in the vent in viaduct
when ur in marinestart ?
- mt something other than wallhack = more guys who think they need a wallhack
mt has some little disadvanteges too, why u should invest 35 res ?
weapon ups dont have disadvanteges btw <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When the rines move out, yes a well planned ambush will get past the MT sensors, but once marines stop moving you can not attack them. With out MT a viable attack plan is to have some tougher alien classes, or maybe a few structures direct fire. Then you can have a skulk or lerk move wiht great speed to flank the rines and rip them up. With MT however you can not get around to flank, since a rine can watch you go though the vent system and be ready for when you pop you head out. With out MT, i've wasted large squads of rins (4 or more) with this tactic + silence.
With MT i got my head blown off with a shot gun by a rine camping the vent.
when ur in marinestart ?
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i can tell you where every thing is where ever i am. all i need do is look at the map and all life that moves shows up. any good marine uses the map often. when im in an open hall im looking at the map. when im camping an area im looking at the map. when im building im looking at the map. when im aproching a hive for a pg im looking at the map. when im killing a rt im looking at the map. getting ammo (two ticks) im looking at the map.
i can see the map and the blips on the hud at the same time and even with out MT the map shows anything in your area (and anything anyone elce see's), you need only look in the likely direction they will come from. with MT it dose not matter where you look you will see them any where as long as they are moveing.
if a red dot dissapears from the map i do not assume they are not there. in fact i know where they are just not the elevation they are (unless they are over a door).
if you look at the map you will see the the blips on your hud do show all movement from a fair ways away.
As the minutes go, and the closer I get to the alien hive, the more of a challenge it becomes. It is in my opinion the part of the marine game that is most fun at the moment.
To remove "rambos"; remove the way the game rewards me for it: A nice K:D ratio, easy skulk/gorge kills, early setback by loss of rts for the aliens.
If motion tracking annoys you so much, drop sensory chambers, which block the effect. This is a hard counter. And you get focus or kharaa MT (SOF) too!
jeah i know my english suxx, cant explain it well
yes u can tell me where a red dot is
no u cant tell me if its building something
u can tell me what lifeform it is perhaps
u invest 20 secs in getting an overview of the map
i think u dont move forward in this 20 secs
so u press m when ur building
on ur way to an rt, a skulk managed to go to an rt and stand still and start build
u dont see him but the comm knows he is there
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yes this is correct sens need res
but u have something like 2 minutes to build rts, kill the obs and have fun with weak marines
another advantage of sens is that u can controll near the whole map so u controll the rts and get up a nice res flow
when u loose this im pretty sure ur regenfades would have been ripped to a sg aswell
erm dont u need 70 marine res+2 mins to counter carapace what is an 30 alien res invest
waahh this game is imba so hf and play it
The only case I'd rush MT is if they had SC first, but even then only after A1. Besides, if they had SC they most liekly already lost mid game.
no u cant tell me if its building something
u can tell me what lifeform it is perhaps
u invest 20 secs in getting an overview of the map
i think u dont move forward in this 20 secs
so u press m when ur building
on ur way to an rt, a skulk managed to go to an rt and stand still and start build
u dont see him but the comm knows he is there
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you can tell if it is a building because it shows up as a building on the map and only is on the map if someone elce see's it. buildings do not move therefore are not shown on MT.
"20sec to look at map"
it does not take long at all to look at the map. maybe 2sec tops.
"at rt building but skulk is already there"
if you look in the direction they are most likely comeing from with out MT you will see them comeing often before you can see them on your hud. also if you look up and to the right (with your eyes not your mouse) you will see anything in the room on the mini map.
with MT it does not matter where you look or if they are moveing or not they will be on the mini map.
the com see's every theing you see, the differense is he can hear any thing any where he looks.
the only way they do not show up on the map is SC. as we all know sc first = lose.
fyi...
to build and look at the map at the same time is "e" for build and "c" for map.
opps miss read
"no you cannt tell me if it is building something"
well i cannt but the commander can because he need only look in that area to hear what is going on. i can make a guess based on the speed/where the red dote is.
edit edit..
dont get me wrong i like the way MT works as is. what i dont like is that it is so cheap it can be had 2min into the game makeing an already hard start for the kharra even harder. an easy fix with out **** people off is raise the price to the old lvl. this way when MT is done you have at lest one fade and do not have to ambush as often. MT should tell you an attack is comeing. it sould help you sneak to a hive.
MT should NOT prevent ambush in the early game because all you have is skulks. skulks = ambush. if you cannt ambush you have little chance of stoping a push into your area.
I think is already sugested i didn't finished reading all post tru here but... a motion tracker based in soul would be really cool, when an alien moves the motion tracker beeps or something like that (have you seen alien 3? something like that)
when that beep starts then marines get prepared for fight.
In other hand...
I don't think motion tracking incetivate ramboes... i go rambo and never use motion tracking in combat, and in classic i always check motion tracking when building something or for some planning of action... not for ramboing...
a good marine uses common sense and gets prepared for shoot in any skulks that come in the way
IMO for stopping ramboing the best solution is removing kills/deaths from the scoreboard
you are just jk are you not?
A rambo marine can get a PG up outside a hive before anyone notices, and once that happens, game over...one TF and a couple of sieges later the hive is gone, all thx to that one marine...
And believe me, this happens more and more...khaara can't afford staying and guarding their hive, nor can they afford putting up any OC's until midgame...these kind of rine rushes are totally devestating, considering that one only need an obs for both MT and a PG technology...
Such a (rambo) rush can be made within 5-10 minutes if a rine team is half decent. This strategy effectively kills off all skulks (MT), gives the rambos all the advantages (neglecting ambushes, total freedom to go anywhere safely) and set up phasegates and TF's outside hives...for a khaara team it's nearly impossible to counter this, so early on ingame...they can't defend the hives cause then the rines will get control of the rest of the map and all resources, nor can they take control of the map cause of all the rambos everywhere which have a very good chance in winning 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1 fights vs skulks...
These kind of siege tactics are getting quite common...quick and effective if done fast enough...
you are just jk are you not? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope. Not kidding at all. With bunnyhopping you can gain up to 70% more speed. I suggest giving that 70%, and then remove bhopping for skulks. It's nothing that aliens can't already get.
Oh yeah, I think that if you get Silence OR cloaking, you should be immune to Motion tracking as well at ALL times(Classic only. If implemented in combat it's make MT completely useless). Maybe this will help break the D/M/S school of thought.
BTW...marines can't bunnyhop.
what would help is if they un-gimped teh SC chambers and Cloaking. People in 2.x bitched that MT was better than cloaking so what did the NS crew do?
They made cloaking take like 3 seconds to go into effect AND lowered teh speed at wich you can move before you de-cloak. So cloak is not longer a usefull combat upgrade, it is now just good for walking in straight unseen lines, as turning + walking = to great a speed to be cloaked. Way to go on balancing the game.