<!--QuoteBegin--MutantMFM+Nov 7 2002, 04:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MutantMFM @ Nov 7 2002, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Onos are weak to heavy armor hmg totting marines the fade upgrades is just a way to counter those nasty heavy armor marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lo0l really acid rockets and bile does micro minimum damages to HA guys...
<!--QuoteBegin--Vektuz+Nov 7 2002, 04:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vektuz @ Nov 7 2002, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I always praised the patch's balance but I must admit, the fades seem a little over the top. BUT ONLY A LITTLE. nothing should survive point blank 3 HMG clips except for maybe an onos...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Point for point... fades cost slightly less then a hvy arm + hvy mg. You take a skilled player on both sides and the fight is about 50/50 right now. Aliens have an advantage in CC and the hvy marine at range... so no they are not over powered.
What alot and I do mean alot of marine players miss is the fact that aliens know the value of healing... so anywhere you see a fade you most likely will see a defense chamber or a gorg using healing spray so the fade runs does dmg gets hurt... gorg heals him... recycle until everything is dead...
Marines can do the same thing... I played medic (only had a welder)... I stood behind 3 marines in hvy armor and hvy mg just welding their armor... we took out 2 hives (aliens had 3) and more aliens then I can count including 3 fades and an ono... yes an ono... for the cost of less then 200 resources we took out well over 400 - 500 resources. That is how marines win the game... problem is too many think hvy arm means they can rambo their way through anything.... Marines need the support roles filled too... is not a glorious job but with them you can spank aliens pretty easily.
Alright, so a Fade costs as much as a Marine with HMG and HA? Fair enough, except that the aliens have shared resources, so now you have 8 Fades against one marine. Point invalid.
Just play the game and dont complain. You're getting this for free. Be grateful you're even able to play this mod, and it wasn't scrapped like so many else.
<!--QuoteBegin--The Seer+Nov 7 2002, 11:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Seer @ Nov 7 2002, 11:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Alright, so a Fade costs as much as a Marine with HMG and HA? Fair enough, except that the aliens have shared resources, so now you have 8 Fades against one marine. Point invalid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How does that make his point invalid? Aliens' resources are split equally, so each individual alien gets fairly little. Since the marines have pooled resources, it's easier to equip the marine, or even multiple marines, than a single alien.
If all the aliens have maxed resources, I'd say the marines have been having a hard time the entire match. I'd say YOUR point is invalid, except, you didn't really make one.
Well it's not fully, there's a system in the sharing method that I am not COMPLETELY familiar with. I know the aliens share, but they get more of an amount of resources than the Marines do. There should be a page on the site that gives the technical details about how the resources work, that one thread was pretty fascinating. But the point still stands, in mid-game, aliens don't have to wait that long to be Fades, especially if they control most of the resource nodes, which isn't uncommon for aliens to do that. I don't once recall waiting long to be a Fade, and I can't even count all the times the Commander needed more resources to supply his troops with HA and HMG, especially lately now that Alien rushing is more common.
And I'm not complaining, I'm discussing. I know this mod is free and I'm eternally grateful, but I believe it's in the best interests of everyone at a discussion Forum to discuss the game and its issues, maybe the devs might actually like this input, I don't know.
Discussing this is almost becoming tiring, since very few others are actually giving input on the matter. Is "use teamwork" really the only things you can say about this? I'd like to hear your stories and supposed strategies, throw all the counters you got at me except the basic "MARINE WHINER OMG!" comeback.
*Sigh* All of you are complaining and bashing each other's "race". <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally, I am a proud Kharaa and I despise humans and their stupid long range weapons.
All that aside... I don't get why you marines are yelling at the Dev team now because you are getting pwned TWO days after the patch. Personally, I love the turrent factory idea powering down all turrents if its gone. I think it would be a good idea though to have "power packs" on the turrents. These "power packs" would be upgrades to turrents. Not only making the turrent not needing the turrent factory but also making it have alittle bit more HP.
As for the O and D chambers outside of the marine base, have you ever thought of a SIEGE turrent?! I played 5 games today (all alien) and I only saw one siege turrent in the entire games.
Also, yes, that resource bug made new to NS players rely TOO much on HA and HMGs. I've never seen more then 4 marines go out of the base in a group. I usually see 1 or 2 marines at a time. I've only seen a group of 4 ONCE, ONCE! and that was before the patch.
So everyone, just stop fighting. And learn some team work marines... it looks to me that the aliens have got teamwork down in stone. Like today, I was a gorge outside on the right of the marine base on ns_bast supporting 2 Onos and 1 fade. I had about 10 D chambers and 7 O chambers right out front. I was so surprised that the marines did not have the common sence to build a siege turrent near the CC or have the common sence to exit out of the left side which was 100% undefended.
Hopefully next week everyone will have equal teamwork skills. This is when NS will begin to really PWN!
Unknown, I completely agree with you, the patch regarding the turret factory was a good decision, and I'm glad the resource bug was fixed. I agree with all but your last two paragraphs. (Well, I agree with those too, but that's really what this whole topic is about.)
I have played many games where the Marines don't even dare stepping outside their base until they regroup, (With the exception of a guy or two doing his own thang) and with a goal of securing a hive, but sometimes that teamwork really isn't good enough. I personally don't see how it's so hard for marines to work together considering they're always in the same place anyway, trying to secure the same resource tower.
The most successful games I've seen post-patch is where people make one or two spawns, and an armory, and most everyone immediately rushes out to secure a hive, and start building turrets at the hive and the base before expanding. Thing is, the marines can secure one, maybe two resource nodes at most while aliens have free reign of the rest of the map, and now that Fades are quite tough against any number of wandering Marines with LMGs, the maps do tend to still go the same way.
I've played about 20 games since the patch came out. (I honestly have no life) One marine victory. I really should start taking screenshots, I really do think the numbers speak for themselves. (I'm alien *most* of the time, I'm complaining about winning too much, not losing too much.)
I just don't see how the scenarios are that hard to figure out. Marines NEED to work together to survive and secure a hive. The aliens aimlessly wander about with a few coordinated attacks here and there and dominate the map. See? SEE?!!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->** play nice or not at all, this is your only warning ** <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I put that in my post or did somebody else? I can't remember.
I am currently plaing marines for a change, and I must say they got the shaft. Fades are pretty much unstoppable becuse they have very long range and is faster than HA marines, which make them deadly at hit and run tactics. Not to mention that offensive chambers have pretty damn effective now. You can't really outstrafe them with HMG and it takes more than half a clip to take out one single off. tower. The grenade launcher suck now, it takes a whole clip to take out one turret. I just hand the fun experience of having 4 HA marines with grenade launchers, HMG, and welders be outmatched by one fade and a bunch of offensive towers and defensive chambers. Something is wrong with that picture. And no we didn't suck, we had a competent commander and worked as a team. It was a very coordinated attack and yet we got butchered. Conclusion: The roles have been reversed, ie. aliens >>> marines instead of marines >>> aliens (pre-patch).
And no, it isn't because the aliens had to learn or die pre-patch. The game is imbalanced. Done.
"I just hand the fun experience of having 4 HA marines with grenade launchers, HMG, and welders be outmatched by one fade and a bunch of offensive towers and defensive chambers"
uh... theres no way this should be happening. get a welder hiding behind the wall of HA'd marines and theres no way you would have trouble from ONE friggin fade. different alien classes support each other, they evolve into one form and know exactly what their role is. marines on the other hand, decide by themselves (or from the commander) who's supposed to be gl spammer, who's supposed to be welder healer, and the walking tank known as HA/HMG'd marine. are they bile bombing you? use grenade launchers. are they running back for heals every few seconds and seem unstoppable? get your welder to heal your HA guys. i have yet to see a marine rush with welders backing them... period. reminds me of the days of alien suckage when 2 hives were up and yet i rarely saw a fade/lerk combo.
a lot of alien players seem to value their lives and upgrades like they should. marines on the other hand, think they're still in light armor and LMGs that they can afford to die and just rush back to the spot and try to kill that pesky alien again. everything costs resources... a lerk and fade dies and it means marines advance, and more resources, and time lost evolving and upgrading... marines die and they lose their lovely invincible armor and nade spam glory. value your lives. you let a single marine in HA die, and it's kind of like losing a defensive structure. you need to defend him like you defended your turret farms and resource nodes.
I think the game is pretty much fair right now. Marines still have the <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> and Aliens still have the <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Stop complaining and play the game <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Today I hit a Fade with 4 direct grenade hits (he was standing still bile bombing our base) and he did not die, If this is not a testament to the power of the new fade then I don't know what is.
And again, who the heck edited my post and why? If it's because of my "human loyalty" statement, well it's true! When I play Star Craft I am always the Humans, in AVP1 and 2 I was always the Human. If that offended somebody, then they had best grow some thicker skin. (Or level 3 carapace for you Aliens out there)
It also takes an INSANE amount of grenades to bring one offensive turret down. Kinda odd when these are supposed to be very powerful against buildings.....
Well now that the magazine capacity of the Grenade Launcher has been lowered, and price raised, it is proving to be more of a waste of RPs then an actually effective weapon.
I think the marines should stop complaining now that they are getting what the aliens were getting for the first 4 days. After about 5 days, the aliens had developed great team tactics and were able to do reasonably well against the unbalanced marines. Now that the unbalances are gone, the marines might have to just develop skills and tactics under the same conditions that the aliens did: getting their **obscenity** handed to them game after game after game.
Oh hush with this Alien team play crap, when I play as the Aliens I can go Fade and constantly harass the Marines on my own with Acid Rockets, or later bile bombs. If you ask me the Aliens were designed for individual Rambo tactics, they have frag counts, powerful attacks, and most importantly no commander which the entire team relies on. Only reason the Aliens win so much is because they do NOT require team work where as the Humans do, I don't think I need to tell you how team play in public servers can be.
Ever hear the phrase "You're only as strong as the weakest man in your squad?" That does not apply for the Aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--Hammer+Nov 8 2002, 03:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hammer @ Nov 8 2002, 03:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Today I hit a Fade with 4 direct grenade hits (he was standing still bile bombing our base) and he did not die, If this is not a testament to the power of the new fade then I don't know what is.
And again, who the heck edited my post and why? If it's because of my "human loyalty" statement, well it's true! When I play Star Craft I am always the Humans, in AVP1 and 2 I was always the Human. If that offended somebody, then they had best grow some thicker skin. (Or level 3 carapace for you Aliens out there)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> impossible... direct hit you did 720 dmg... not even a ono can stand upto that... Even fades with carapace cannot withstand 720 directly... so either you grazed hime and did not get a direct hit, there was a bug, or there are other factors you are not telling us.
Hammer: the only reason you can successfully do that is because the marines are too dumb to come at you as a squad of 3-4 and take you down. Ofcourse a single fade can take out TONS of marines one at a time. One fade vs 3-4 marines who know what they are doing is a dead fade.
actually it's quite the opposite, the more useless players you have with marines, the better. more resources, you don't give them **obscenity**, they'll occassionally build stuff, and they're cannon fodder for aliens to waste their time on. oh yah, also a smart commander won't ever upgrade them if he has any value over his resources.
the more nubi retard aliens, the slower your gorgs gather resources (even slower if one guy thinks him being a gorg with 2-3 gorgs already handling expanding is gonna help much), is about as valuable as the ammo he wastes from the marine before he dies, and just contributes to his death count.
i agree with you though... somewhat. aliens don't need to group ambush, 1 or 2 skulks can take care and harass a group of 3-4 marines. there shouldn't really be any reason for the marines to not to leave together other than for a lone marine scout rush to see which resource nodes are still available... and to draw attention away by rushing and firing at a hive to buy some time for marines to do the run to wherever they are having trouble getting to.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gnacox+Nov 8 2002, 02:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gnacox @ Nov 8 2002, 02:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am currently plaing marines for a change, and I must say they got the shaft. Fades are pretty much unstoppable becuse they have very long range and is faster than HA marines, which make them deadly at hit and run tactics. Not to mention that offensive chambers have pretty damn effective now. You can't really outstrafe them with HMG and it takes more than half a clip to take out one single off. tower. The grenade launcher suck now, it takes a whole clip to take out one turret. I just hand the fun experience of having 4 HA marines with grenade launchers, HMG, and welders be outmatched by one fade and a bunch of offensive towers and defensive chambers. Something is wrong with that picture. And no we didn't suck, we had a competent commander and worked as a team. It was a very coordinated attack and yet we got butchered. Conclusion: The roles have been reversed, ie. aliens >>> marines instead of marines >>> aliens (pre-patch).
And no, it isn't because the aliens had to learn or die pre-patch. The game is imbalanced. Done.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I find this funny as offensive chambers were not majorly changed... the price by 2 points and 100 extra health... yet now they own you? BTW hvy arm was not changed other then a few points to the price... so you are saying although the mechanics did not change you get owned now? something does not add up... Also if your welder was doing his job you could have torn through 1 fade easy... without carapace fades go down in 40 hvy mg bullets... with carapce it takes about 60... point blank that is what? 3 seconds... and there were 4 of you? This does not add up... I play both sides and never encountered a lone fade 2 hvy marines could not take out with accurate shooting. hvy arm absorbs 95% dmg directly to armor... this means you can take 5 shots easy by a fade rocket or 4 swings from their arms before hvy arm gives out. Fades can only shoot 5 rockets even with adreniline before they are tapped out... so if a fade is lucky... he can rocket one hvy marine before the second ganks him... since points are about even I see no issue with this...
the GL does 180 dmg per hit double against buildings... so your clip of 4 does 180x2x4 = 1440 dmg in 4 seconds... since the offensive chamber only has 1200 hp... your math does not add up... you can cut through 5 or 6 offensive chambers in 4 seconds if they are grouped together... 4 seconds! and the GL sucks? You can also dish out 720 to any alien... only thing that MIGHT have a chance (if not a direct hit) is an ono... everything else is putty... Please... look at facts before making broad and speculative statements. I have seen 3 GL marines take out an entire hive (offensive and defensive chambers too) in less then 2 minutes... that is hundreds of resources taken out before aliens can run across the map...
The GL was a cheese weapon and still IS a cheese weapon... nothing on the alien side can compare... the closest is the ono charge that can do around 500 dmg in perfect circumstances and is not area of affect.
Don't try running from a fade with an empty HMG...
You only die tired.
I had my cinamatic moment reguarding this just a little bit ago. I was using my handy new HMG (Gotten off the body of the last poor sap that tried taking on a fade with it. He died, I aimed better, dead fade).
Well, there I am, plunking away at the alien's first hive, of three. Onos were starting to pop up. Time was against me. Fed all of my ammo in the thing. Apparently the gorge that had been hanging out in the room didn't take kindly to HMGs. He had been in a corner evolving as I did this. So as I step into the room to get a better look at the defenses, this fade pops out of the corner, chuckling, but looking away from me.
*click* *click* Uh oh. I had been ramboing. With a HMG. My bad. Now I was out of ammo, with a very ticked off fade maybe, 7 or 8 meters from me. And I was all alone. So I did the only thing I could given the circumstances.
I ran like a scared little rabbit. Or at least a paniced turtle.
Back into the red, glowing tunnel, around the corner *pant* *pant* dang this HMG is really heavier when it's empty. Just a bit further to the exit to the tunnel and sentry turrets! Hey! A teammate! Maybe he can help de... *SPLAT*.
Both my teammate and I were turned into acid puddles at the same time. And a mere step or two from a sentry turreted corner too. I'd swear I heard one of the dead spectating Aliens laugh into his microphone.
*sigh*, well, anyway, just goes to show, ramboing = DEATH.
A Fade could have moved in front of your scorch marks... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
AH-HAH! I SEE YOUR PROBLEM!!! You think Fades are INVISIBLE!!!!
Edit: Oh, I see the Fade now...very tiny. Wow, if you were able to get direct hits with a grenade launcher 4 times in a row with the fade that far away...very impressive. Still, that Fade could have just appeared.
Right, if you look at the scorch marks he is dead center in them and his body is perfectly lined up with my cross hair, AND I am reloading.
If I did not find this a bit suspicious, why would I waste my time waiting for a fade to go precisely in to my previous scorch marks (which if have been randomly fired, would have left scorch marks in other directions) and snap a screen shot?
Now come on stupidly is a privilege, and you're abusing it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then test it out yourself. 4 grenade rounds actually don't kill a Fade, it brings him down to about 30 health. Might depend exactly how close he was, but I was a Fade many times hit by 4 nades, survived every time.
Comments
lo0l really acid rockets and bile does micro minimum damages to HA guys...
Point for point... fades cost slightly less then a hvy arm + hvy mg. You take a skilled player on both sides and the fight is about 50/50 right now. Aliens have an advantage in CC and the hvy marine at range... so no they are not over powered.
What alot and I do mean alot of marine players miss is the fact that aliens know the value of healing... so anywhere you see a fade you most likely will see a defense chamber or a gorg using healing spray so the fade runs does dmg gets hurt... gorg heals him... recycle until everything is dead...
Marines can do the same thing... I played medic (only had a welder)... I stood behind 3 marines in hvy armor and hvy mg just welding their armor... we took out 2 hives (aliens had 3) and more aliens then I can count including 3 fades and an ono... yes an ono... for the cost of less then 200 resources we took out well over 400 - 500 resources. That is how marines win the game... problem is too many think hvy arm means they can rambo their way through anything.... Marines need the support roles filled too... is not a glorious job but with them you can spank aliens pretty easily.
How does that make his point invalid? Aliens' resources are split equally, so each individual alien gets fairly little. Since the marines have pooled resources, it's easier to equip the marine, or even multiple marines, than a single alien.
If all the aliens have maxed resources, I'd say the marines have been having a hard time the entire match. I'd say YOUR point is invalid, except, you didn't really make one.
And I'm not complaining, I'm discussing. I know this mod is free and I'm eternally grateful, but I believe it's in the best interests of everyone at a discussion Forum to discuss the game and its issues, maybe the devs might actually like this input, I don't know.
Discussing this is almost becoming tiring, since very few others are actually giving input on the matter. Is "use teamwork" really the only things you can say about this? I'd like to hear your stories and supposed strategies, throw all the counters you got at me except the basic "MARINE WHINER OMG!" comeback.
Personally, I am a proud Kharaa and I despise humans and their stupid long range weapons.
All that aside...
I don't get why you marines are yelling at the Dev team now because you are getting pwned TWO days after the patch. Personally, I love the turrent factory idea powering down all turrents if its gone. I think it would be a good idea though to have "power packs" on the turrents. These "power packs" would be upgrades to turrents. Not only making the turrent not needing the turrent factory but also making it have alittle bit more HP.
As for the O and D chambers outside of the marine base, have you ever thought of a SIEGE turrent?! I played 5 games today (all alien) and I only saw one siege turrent in the entire games.
Also, yes, that resource bug made new to NS players rely TOO much on HA and HMGs. I've never seen more then 4 marines go out of the base in a group. I usually see 1 or 2 marines at a time. I've only seen a group of 4 ONCE, ONCE! and that was before the patch.
So everyone, just stop fighting. And learn some team work marines... it looks to me that the aliens have got teamwork down in stone. Like today, I was a gorge outside on the right of the marine base on ns_bast supporting 2 Onos and 1 fade. I had about 10 D chambers and 7 O chambers right out front. I was so surprised that the marines did not have the common sence to build a siege turrent near the CC or have the common sence to exit out of the left side which was 100% undefended.
Hopefully next week everyone will have equal teamwork skills. This is when NS will begin to really PWN!
I have played many games where the Marines don't even dare stepping outside their base until they regroup, (With the exception of a guy or two doing his own thang) and with a goal of securing a hive, but sometimes that teamwork really isn't good enough. I personally don't see how it's so hard for marines to work together considering they're always in the same place anyway, trying to secure the same resource tower.
The most successful games I've seen post-patch is where people make one or two spawns, and an armory, and most everyone immediately rushes out to secure a hive, and start building turrets at the hive and the base before expanding. Thing is, the marines can secure one, maybe two resource nodes at most while aliens have free reign of the rest of the map, and now that Fades are quite tough against any number of wandering Marines with LMGs, the maps do tend to still go the same way.
I've played about 20 games since the patch came out. (I honestly have no life) One marine victory. I really should start taking screenshots, I really do think the numbers speak for themselves. (I'm alien *most* of the time, I'm complaining about winning too much, not losing too much.)
I just don't see how the scenarios are that hard to figure out. Marines NEED to work together to survive and secure a hive. The aliens aimlessly wander about with a few coordinated attacks here and there and dominate the map. See? SEE?!!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I put that in my post or did somebody else? I can't remember.
Not to mention that offensive chambers have pretty damn effective now. You can't really outstrafe them with HMG and it takes more than half a clip to take out one single off. tower. The grenade launcher suck now, it takes a whole clip to take out one turret.
I just hand the fun experience of having 4 HA marines with grenade launchers, HMG, and welders be outmatched by one fade and a bunch of offensive towers and defensive chambers. Something is wrong with that picture. And no we didn't suck, we had a competent commander and worked as a team. It was a very coordinated attack and yet we got butchered.
Conclusion: The roles have been reversed, ie. aliens >>> marines instead of marines >>> aliens (pre-patch).
And no, it isn't because the aliens had to learn or die pre-patch. The game is imbalanced. Done.
uh... theres no way this should be happening. get a welder hiding behind the wall of HA'd marines and theres no way you would have trouble from ONE friggin fade. different alien classes support each other, they evolve into one form and know exactly what their role is. marines on the other hand, decide by themselves (or from the commander) who's supposed to be gl spammer, who's supposed to be welder healer, and the walking tank known as HA/HMG'd marine. are they bile bombing you? use grenade launchers. are they running back for heals every few seconds and seem unstoppable? get your welder to heal your HA guys. i have yet to see a marine rush with welders backing them... period. reminds me of the days of alien suckage when 2 hives were up and yet i rarely saw a fade/lerk combo.
a lot of alien players seem to value their lives and upgrades like they should. marines on the other hand, think they're still in light armor and LMGs that they can afford to die and just rush back to the spot and try to kill that pesky alien again. everything costs resources... a lerk and fade dies and it means marines advance, and more resources, and time lost evolving and upgrading... marines die and they lose their lovely invincible armor and nade spam glory. value your lives. you let a single marine in HA die, and it's kind of like losing a defensive structure. you need to defend him like you defended your turret farms and resource nodes.
And again, who the heck edited my post and why? If it's because of my "human loyalty" statement, well it's true! When I play Star Craft I am always the Humans, in AVP1 and 2 I was always the Human. If that offended somebody, then they had best grow some thicker skin. (Or level 3 carapace for you Aliens out there)
Ever hear the phrase "You're only as strong as the weakest man in your squad?" That does not apply for the Aliens.
And again, who the heck edited my post and why? If it's because of my "human loyalty" statement, well it's true! When I play Star Craft I am always the Humans, in AVP1 and 2 I was always the Human. If that offended somebody, then they had best grow some thicker skin. (Or level 3 carapace for you Aliens out there)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
impossible... direct hit you did 720 dmg... not even a ono can stand upto that... Even fades with carapace cannot withstand 720 directly... so either you grazed hime and did not get a direct hit, there was a bug, or there are other factors you are not telling us.
the more nubi retard aliens, the slower your gorgs gather resources (even slower if one guy thinks him being a gorg with 2-3 gorgs already handling expanding is gonna help much), is about as valuable as the ammo he wastes from the marine before he dies, and just contributes to his death count.
i agree with you though... somewhat. aliens don't need to group ambush, 1 or 2 skulks can take care and harass a group of 3-4 marines. there shouldn't really be any reason for the marines to not to leave together other than for a lone marine scout rush to see which resource nodes are still available... and to draw attention away by rushing and firing at a hive to buy some time for marines to do the run to wherever they are having trouble getting to.
Not to mention that offensive chambers have pretty damn effective now. You can't really outstrafe them with HMG and it takes more than half a clip to take out one single off. tower. The grenade launcher suck now, it takes a whole clip to take out one turret.
I just hand the fun experience of having 4 HA marines with grenade launchers, HMG, and welders be outmatched by one fade and a bunch of offensive towers and defensive chambers. Something is wrong with that picture. And no we didn't suck, we had a competent commander and worked as a team. It was a very coordinated attack and yet we got butchered.
Conclusion: The roles have been reversed, ie. aliens >>> marines instead of marines >>> aliens (pre-patch).
And no, it isn't because the aliens had to learn or die pre-patch. The game is imbalanced. Done.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find this funny as offensive chambers were not majorly changed... the price by 2 points and 100 extra health... yet now they own you? BTW hvy arm was not changed other then a few points to the price... so you are saying although the mechanics did not change you get owned now? something does not add up... Also if your welder was doing his job you could have torn through 1 fade easy... without carapace fades go down in 40 hvy mg bullets... with carapce it takes about 60... point blank that is what? 3 seconds... and there were 4 of you? This does not add up... I play both sides and never encountered a lone fade 2 hvy marines could not take out with accurate shooting. hvy arm absorbs 95% dmg directly to armor... this means you can take 5 shots easy by a fade rocket or 4 swings from their arms before hvy arm gives out. Fades can only shoot 5 rockets even with adreniline before they are tapped out... so if a fade is lucky... he can rocket one hvy marine before the second ganks him... since points are about even I see no issue with this...
the GL does 180 dmg per hit double against buildings... so your clip of 4 does 180x2x4 = 1440 dmg in 4 seconds... since the offensive chamber only has 1200 hp... your math does not add up... you can cut through 5 or 6 offensive chambers in 4 seconds if they are grouped together... 4 seconds! and the GL sucks? You can also dish out 720 to any alien... only thing that MIGHT have a chance (if not a direct hit) is an ono... everything else is putty... Please... look at facts before making broad and speculative statements. I have seen 3 GL marines take out an entire hive (offensive and defensive chambers too) in less then 2 minutes... that is hundreds of resources taken out before aliens can run across the map...
The GL was a cheese weapon and still IS a cheese weapon... nothing on the alien side can compare... the closest is the ono charge that can do around 500 dmg in perfect circumstances and is not area of affect.
You only die tired.
I had my cinamatic moment reguarding this just a little bit ago. I was using my handy new HMG (Gotten off the body of the last poor sap that tried taking on a fade with it. He died, I aimed better, dead fade).
Well, there I am, plunking away at the alien's first hive, of three. Onos were starting to pop up. Time was against me. Fed all of my ammo in the thing. Apparently the gorge that had been hanging out in the room didn't take kindly to HMGs. He had been in a corner evolving as I did this. So as I step into the room to get a better look at the defenses, this fade pops out of the corner, chuckling, but looking away from me.
*click* *click* Uh oh. I had been ramboing. With a HMG. My bad. Now I was out of ammo, with a very ticked off fade maybe, 7 or 8 meters from me. And I was all alone. So I did the only thing I could given the circumstances.
I ran like a scared little rabbit. Or at least a paniced turtle.
Back into the red, glowing tunnel, around the corner *pant* *pant* dang this HMG is really heavier when it's empty. Just a bit further to the exit to the tunnel and sentry turrets! Hey! A teammate! Maybe he can help de... *SPLAT*.
Both my teammate and I were turned into acid puddles at the same time. And a mere step or two from a sentry turreted corner too. I'd swear I heard one of the dead spectating Aliens laugh into his microphone.
*sigh*, well, anyway, just goes to show, ramboing = DEATH.
So hard to break old habits.
Atziluth - Notice where my Cross hairs are, where he is standing, and how I am reloading.
I swear to god hit was in those blasts, and was still alive.
And the screenshot does not prove anything.
A Fade could have moved in front of your scorch marks... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
AH-HAH! I SEE YOUR PROBLEM!!! You think Fades are INVISIBLE!!!!
Edit: Oh, I see the Fade now...very tiny. Wow, if you were able to get direct hits with a grenade launcher 4 times in a row with the fade that far away...very impressive. Still, that Fade could have just appeared.
If I did not find this a bit suspicious, why would I waste my time waiting for a fade to go precisely in to my previous scorch marks (which if have been randomly fired, would have left scorch marks in other directions) and snap a screen shot?
Now come on stupidly is a privilege, and you're abusing it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
(I think you're joking, in which case I am too)
Seriously. They live. Go try it.