I dunno, cats can work pretty well for grenade spammers, sure you get the RoF increase after all of your nades are gone, but the speed increase is great for running away to reload. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You could also combine cats with mines, plant enough mines around the map and you'll get cat packs at random, it just takes some patience and luck(or just camp a mine and lead a group of aliens to it, an easy way to get a cat pack in a specific location with a full clip), good fun.
Jetpack power also gets a boost from cats, though it makes it alot tougher to control (you get just as much up-boost as forward-boost, so you usually get caught in the ceiling <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
I'd really like a better system if possible, but I'd rather they stay the way they are then become a one-use item like a grenade (only even less useful).
Edit: this is all in combat, btw. I think I got a cat in classic once and that was it, never again since, which is a shame since they can definitely help marines in certain situations, and they're fun as hell, but I guess time on the arms lab is expensive.
() Randomly with 1-1.5 mins cool down () When your crosshair goes over a alien, again cool down period follows () When ever someone near you kills something (ie gets exp)
last methods means people who work in groups will see more cat packs even although the chance of killing an alien has decreased <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Jaml+Aug 7 2004, 05:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jaml @ Aug 7 2004, 05:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That last idea sounds great. And it would encourage people to stick together which is always good.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And completely upset all balance in combat, since one alien death will turn a group of marines into frenzied freaks on crack who will kill pretty much anything in their path.
I think that the idea behind cat-packs has been rather flawed from the start, resulting in these complaints and all. They should affect only the marine, and not his weapons (that are physical objects, after all). By this I mean that the marine should be faster, yes, reload faster, that too, have some extra resistance, why not, but also last much longer. The comm is too busy to drop med/ammo when the time comes, so making cat-packs act like "prep-packs" is much better idea than compete with the most important: health.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jaml+Aug 5 2004, 09:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jaml @ Aug 5 2004, 09:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think Catpaks in Classic are fine. They are great at killing a hive. Just cat your marines and they make short work of everything. But they suck in combat. I propose to make cat paks permanent in combat and having weapol lvl 3 as a prerequisite. This would boost the marines agains onos and fades and therefore giving them a better chance in combat (so maybe they win from time to time). And with lvl3 weapons required you couldn´t have a cat paked marine with anythig better than a lmg before lvl 5 and that would be about the time the first carpaced fades show up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= dead hive. 2 jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= complete destruction.
I think cat packs should infuse nanites into the marines to make them turn into brute beserked alien killin freaks!!!
- costs 10 res - makes marine drop all weapons execpt for knife - jumps 3 times higher and runs 3 times faster - knife swings slowed down but do 90 damage a hit
it'd make spamming down a bunch of cat packs make the marines be able to fight off the 3 oni in base with their bare hands!!!!
Catpacks are fine. The only reason that most comms don't use them is because its 4 res per drop. when you're spamming them, that can take your economy down to 0 very quickly. So mostly, its used as a game ender-- a toy for your marines as a 'job well done'; then mostly spammed in the last hive assault to quicken it up.
I repeat: The reason comms do not use catpacks is NOT because they're not useful, but because they're damn expensive to pass out.
<!--QuoteBegin-Skydancer+Aug 7 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Skydancer @ Aug 7 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Jaml+Aug 5 2004, 09:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jaml @ Aug 5 2004, 09:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think Catpaks in Classic are fine. They are great at killing a hive. Just cat your marines and they make short work of everything. But they suck in combat. I propose to make cat paks permanent in combat and having weapol lvl 3 as a prerequisite. This would boost the marines agains onos and fades and therefore giving them a better chance in combat (so maybe they win from time to time). And with lvl3 weapons required you couldn´t have a cat paked marine with anythig better than a lmg before lvl 5 and that would be about the time the first carpaced fades show up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= dead hive. 2 jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= complete destruction. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Lets see: Jp needs 4 points to get. Lvl 3 weapons + cat pack another 4 points shotgun another point
Since you start with lvl 1 you get 9 points to distribute till lvl 10. You need all nine points to get to that configuration. By the time you´re lvl 10 aliens have at least half the team focus+carpace fades that move so fast that lag compensation in halflive cannot give you a correct position anymore if you have a ping above 20 and therefore cant hit them except with lucky shots. Additionally they have 2-3 Onos with carpace/stomp/devour. Devour is an instagib feature that can remove the most powerful unit the marines have instantly. They have stomp that can stop entire squads in their tracks making them sitting ducks for fades+skulks. Besides that they are extreemly hard to kill and spawn as fast as any other lifeform. Why do you think aliens win nearly all of the combat games once onos show up? Marines need a big boost in damage at higher levels and thats why i would make cats permanent.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Aug 7 2004, 11:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 7 2004, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh, yeah I talked with flay about that told him to make cat packs cost 3 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that´s good that you talked with Flay, cause you are completely involved in the NS community and know what we want <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> It´s good that somebody of us is able to tell him what´s wrong in NS
Spawning WITH a catpack once researched would aid immensely to their usefulness. You wouldn't have to touch the upgrade otherwise, it'd be immediately more useful.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Aug 8 2004, 06:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 8 2004, 06:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh, yeah I talked with flay about that told him to make cat packs cost 3 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Aaaaandd thennnn ??
I still think they need more than just a reduced cost to make an interesting option for the comm. Actually I see them only as a poor copie of stimpacks. What I'm thinking about:
<!--QuoteBegin-Lito+Aug 7 2004, 11:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lito @ Aug 7 2004, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Catpacks are fine. The only reason that most comms don't use them is because its 4 res per drop. when you're spamming them, that can take your economy down to 0 very quickly. So mostly, its used as a game ender-- a toy for your marines as a 'job well done'; then mostly spammed in the last hive assault to quicken it up.
I repeat: The reason comms do not use catpacks is NOT because they're not useful, but because they're damn expensive to pass out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree: i think the main reason in public play when commanders doesn't use cat are:
1) cause the catpacked marines usually doesn't go directly to the hive :| 2) cause the commander doesn't know how to work 3) cause sometimes are difficult to use.
About the cost: it doen't mean much to drop down the cost. I explain: i drop 3 cat on 3 marines, they kill 1 or 2 aliens. Cost: 12. Gain: 2-6 res. But also gains 1-2 aliens stopped in respawn wich lose res for carapace/other upgrades. And if i drop 4 cat (16 res) on a group of rines that kills a fade/onos I get a res gain of 50-70 res (not in my pool, but because they lost theyr resources. And it's more important. Not speaking about an hive down this way. not only 40 res, but also a decrease of all alien side. I think commanders should think better about theyr tactics: it costs less a group of marines with lvl2 shotties and cata than a tf with sieges. Not talking about time to drop down an hive too. The downside is that they should be quick to use the "distress" to recall all marines when they are suffering.
I'd like as a commander to have them use like in starcraft: u highlight the grup of marines (or recall the group) then u press a key to give all of them stimpack.
I like the drain of hp too (maybe only 10-15 hp, not more, for every stim dropped).
I'd like the reload faster, but this in fact would affect balance in a bad way. At this point, what do u think about another research possible that doubles the magazine clip.
IE: you research it and the lmg has 250 ammo, the shotty 16, the lmg 150, the gl 8. Perhaps it should be a good compromise.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
hehe, taht would be cool but completely unbalanced. Maybe an advanced GL with 6 rounds or something, but post this in I&S pls.
The catpack is very useful if you combine it shotguns against fades, but in face of the high costs it´s not worth the upgrade costs or the 4 res for the pack itself in many situations.
It´s a damn waste of resources and marines economy would be a zero after a hive rush <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I got a new idea concerning catpacks so I'm resurrecting this thread.
<b>Idea:</b> When a catpacked marine receives ammo (through an ammopack or humping the armory), ammo is loaded directly into current clip first before reserve.
Imagine marines with HMG and GLs firing non-stop for 8+ seconds with the comm spamming ammopacks. THAT would definitely make catpacks worth it (if not overpowered).
Comments
You could also combine cats with mines, plant enough mines around the map and you'll get cat packs at random, it just takes some patience and luck(or just camp a mine and lead a group of aliens to it, an easy way to get a cat pack in a specific location with a full clip), good fun.
Jetpack power also gets a boost from cats, though it makes it alot tougher to control (you get just as much up-boost as forward-boost, so you usually get caught in the ceiling <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
I'd really like a better system if possible, but I'd rather they stay the way they are then become a one-use item like a grenade (only even less useful).
Edit: this is all in combat, btw. I think I got a cat in classic once and that was it, never again since, which is a shame since they can definitely help marines in certain situations, and they're fun as hell, but I guess time on the arms lab is expensive.
() Randomly with 1-1.5 mins cool down
() When your crosshair goes over a alien, again cool down period follows
() When ever someone near you kills something (ie gets exp)
last methods means people who work in groups will see more cat packs even although the chance of killing an alien has decreased <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And completely upset all balance in combat, since one alien death will turn a group of marines into frenzied freaks on crack who will kill pretty much anything in their path.
"Ah, well; that is just what I think."
jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= dead hive.
2 jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= complete destruction.
- costs 10 res
- makes marine drop all weapons execpt for knife
- jumps 3 times higher and runs 3 times faster
- knife swings slowed down but do 90 damage a hit
it'd make spamming down a bunch of cat packs make the marines be able to fight off the 3 oni in base with their bare hands!!!!
So it serves as an anti-spawn camp measure (because you spawn on crack) and you can get back into the field faster, which is a biggy for marines.
but whats about classic NS? I think catpacks are quite useless and unused.
I repeat: The reason comms do not use catpacks is NOT because they're not useful, but because they're damn expensive to pass out.
jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= dead hive.
2 jp+weapons #3+shotgun+permanent catpack= complete destruction. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lets see:
Jp needs 4 points to get.
Lvl 3 weapons + cat pack another 4 points
shotgun another point
Since you start with lvl 1 you get 9 points to distribute till lvl 10. You need all nine points to get to that configuration. By the time you´re lvl 10 aliens have at least half the team focus+carpace fades that move so fast that lag compensation in halflive cannot give you a correct position anymore if you have a ping above 20 and therefore cant hit them except with lucky shots. Additionally they have 2-3 Onos with carpace/stomp/devour. Devour is an instagib feature that can remove the most powerful unit the marines have instantly. They have stomp that can stop entire squads in their tracks making them sitting ducks for fades+skulks. Besides that they are extreemly hard to kill and spawn as fast as any other lifeform. Why do you think aliens win nearly all of the combat games once onos show up? Marines need a big boost in damage at higher levels and thats why i would make cats permanent.
that´s good that you talked with Flay,
cause you are completely involved in the NS community and know what we want <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It´s good that somebody of us is able to tell him what´s wrong in NS
Aaaaandd thennnn ??
<b>catpaks at like nades, once researched you start with one</b>
or
<b>decrease costs to 3</b>
but any changes need to be made, to make them more viable to use.
What I'm thinking about:
<b>Catalyst Packs: 50% faster reloadtime; 0% faster shooting; 50% increase build speed; 25% speed boost; Cost: 2(3?) res</b>
With this changes Catpacks could also be used for "scouts" who run fast into a hive and get up a pg. (Bulding time must be increased)
I repeat: The reason comms do not use catpacks is NOT because they're not useful, but because they're damn expensive to pass out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree: i think the main reason in public play when commanders doesn't use cat are:
1) cause the catpacked marines usually doesn't go directly to the hive :|
2) cause the commander doesn't know how to work
3) cause sometimes are difficult to use.
About the cost: it doen't mean much to drop down the cost. I explain: i drop 3 cat on 3 marines, they kill 1 or 2 aliens. Cost: 12. Gain: 2-6 res. But also gains 1-2 aliens stopped in respawn wich lose res for carapace/other upgrades. And if i drop 4 cat (16 res) on a group of rines that kills a fade/onos I get a res gain of 50-70 res (not in my pool, but because they lost theyr resources. And it's more important.
Not speaking about an hive down this way. not only 40 res, but also a decrease of all alien side.
I think commanders should think better about theyr tactics: it costs less a group of marines with lvl2 shotties and cata than a tf with sieges. Not talking about time to drop down an hive too. The downside is that they should be quick to use the "distress" to recall all marines when they are suffering.
I'd like as a commander to have them use like in starcraft: u highlight the grup of marines (or recall the group) then u press a key to give all of them stimpack.
I like the drain of hp too (maybe only 10-15 hp, not more, for every stim dropped).
I'd like the reload faster, but this in fact would affect balance in a bad way. At this point, what do u think about another research possible that doubles the magazine clip.
IE: you research it and the lmg has 250 ammo, the shotty 16, the lmg 150, the gl 8. Perhaps it should be a good compromise.
The catpack is very useful if you combine it shotguns against fades, but in face of the high costs it´s not worth the upgrade costs or the 4 res for the pack itself in many situations.
It´s a damn waste of resources and marines economy would be a zero after a hive rush <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Idea:</b> When a catpacked marine receives ammo (through an ammopack or humping the armory), ammo is loaded directly into current clip first before reserve.
Imagine marines with HMG and GLs firing non-stop for 8+ seconds with the comm spamming ammopacks. THAT would definitely make catpacks worth it (if not overpowered).