Chambers
CrueltyIsMyGame
Join Date: 2004-07-27 Member: 30179Members
Join Date: 2004-07-27 Member: 30179Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Why isnt MC, SC, DC the most usefull??</div> Im wondering... why isnt the favorite chamber from start MC??
In Combat, every decent skulk choose celerity/leap(not an option) first.. closing the distance to rines + map control is very important. Early on skulks eaqual rines if they have the speed... carpace just dont do the trick. Some may say "Then just ambush for the kills...".. well.. there are very few good ambush spots rines dont know of.. and if the rines knows how to BH with decent aim.. well.. ambush almost worthless.
But why is it so important to get DC first in Classic?? Because of fades/Onos's?? Well, from my point of view, its more important to get res the first 6-7 mins.. and the easiest way for aliens, due to resflow, is killing rines. With the celerity/silence upgrade, this task becomes easier for skulks... thus the overall alien resflow will raise.
IMO fades with celerity is better than fades with carpace/regen.. unless its electrified RT we are talking about. But those elec RT should be more uncommon if aliens got mapcontrol.
If the average skulk has celerity or even focus, they should get more kills. Thus canceling the effect of early fades and spread the res overall for the alien team. This again means, more fades earlier... 3 fades without regen/carpace can be as good as 1 with the regen/carp upgrade.
So... more speed, more kills, more res, more fades, more hormogen team.
or am I totally wrong??
In Combat, every decent skulk choose celerity/leap(not an option) first.. closing the distance to rines + map control is very important. Early on skulks eaqual rines if they have the speed... carpace just dont do the trick. Some may say "Then just ambush for the kills...".. well.. there are very few good ambush spots rines dont know of.. and if the rines knows how to BH with decent aim.. well.. ambush almost worthless.
But why is it so important to get DC first in Classic?? Because of fades/Onos's?? Well, from my point of view, its more important to get res the first 6-7 mins.. and the easiest way for aliens, due to resflow, is killing rines. With the celerity/silence upgrade, this task becomes easier for skulks... thus the overall alien resflow will raise.
IMO fades with celerity is better than fades with carpace/regen.. unless its electrified RT we are talking about. But those elec RT should be more uncommon if aliens got mapcontrol.
If the average skulk has celerity or even focus, they should get more kills. Thus canceling the effect of early fades and spread the res overall for the alien team. This again means, more fades earlier... 3 fades without regen/carpace can be as good as 1 with the regen/carp upgrade.
So... more speed, more kills, more res, more fades, more hormogen team.
or am I totally wrong??
Comments
ns_ maps are quite different than co_ maps in that they require much more teamwork and patience to win. there's also resource towers to be capped on ns maps that are critical for both teams to get upgrades.
if you've read any previous posts on why mcs are good//not good then you'll have all your questions answered.
To quote you-
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In Combat, every decent skulk choose(s) celerity
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DECENT skulk. In NS, not every player is decent. Unlike combat, your choices WILL affect them. If you choose MC first and they're all mediocre players then you're going to lose BADLY. Thats why people go for the safe option of DC first.
DC first also allows defence against turret lockdowns - regen and carapace are your friends. DC keeps bad players alive longer. And it can be used just as well by better players - MC can't be used well by lower class players.
So it ends up DC first. NS is a TEAM game, so you have to use team strengths. Dropping MC because it makes you an individually better player is a pretty pointless move, and will earn you the disrespect of the team if not a one way ticket off the server.
DC is the top choice because it benefits fades the most. By the 4 minute mark (when you can get fades), you will likely only have 1-2 res nodes (thats including your hive node). Skulks just don't cut it, even at the beginning of the game, skulks are very weak and they become progressively weaker as the marines tech up. Without fades, its very hard for aliens to stop marine progression or to protect the building second hive (have you ever tried to stop marines from seiging your second hive with a MC fade; its next to impossible).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MC has the best abilties among the 3 chambers. with a adrenline gorge it acts like a healing center, with a silence skulk/lerk it works much more betting than cloaking and cele for fades to speed hit and run back to hive. this sounded good but what u need is TEAMWORK and SKILLS. so we usually have dcs in pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An interesting theory, but in reality it doesn't pan out. As you say, in pubs, people have less teamwork, which would lead to the downfall of the MC strat. Yet, in the clan scene, where teamwork is supposed to be at the top, DC is much more prevalent. Simply because the raw power of a DC fade is the only thing that can stop marines - and then aliens still lose most of the time anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->like arms lab of marine, getting armor 1 is fine but if u get a team knowing how to shoot get weapon 1 rulez<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That might be true in the perfect world, where marines never miss. In reality, even the best players get hit, thus making armor 1 one of the best upgrades in the game. It gives you one more bite, whereas weapon 1 doesn't change anything (still takes 9 lmg bullets to kill a skulk).
but yeah the threads right below this one on the front page of alien strad. in case your interested
DCs are nice for the chambers themselves.
I dunno. Id like to see more M-D-S
In regular NS I usually go for dc's first. But it also depends on the map. Some players have put up sc's and we have lost the game. Your best bet would be dc's. Alot of the other players might give you flack if you put up sc's or mc's. <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I find hiding around and biting people to be dishonorable.
They most notable is the skill nullifying benefits of MC... but then again, it nullifyes every alien chamber and win..<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Its very hard being alien in classic now a days.... u need at least 3 good aliens to compete against 1 good comm with 1 good rine.
Sorry for reopening a topic allready there, didnt see it.. sorry..:/
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You cant bunny hop as marines anymore.
Thing is, you need someone with decent skills who is getting loads of kills as skulk early game to be saving for the hive, with MC first you need that second hive seriously quickly.
I suck as fade without celerity, but its too easy to get cought out by a pair of sg marines waiting for you without DC. With MC first I would get more kills and find it easier as skulk early game, but as soon as marines start getting upgrades, which a good comm will, skulks start to become less useful.
Whe it comes down to it, in a clan game, you will have 1 hive saver, 2 fade rush and the rest RTs/chambers. Those 2 fades will either win or lose you the game, because you get the fades usually about the time as marines are going for the second hive lock-down. Now if you fades do well and prevent the 2nd lockdown you usually go on to win, if you fades get killed your ****. Problem is fades go down too damn easily against competent marines with SG's unless you have DC's.
Silence works exactly like cloaking in combat (silence + leap or celerity = cries of "DAMN CLOAKER!" from marines, and much laughter from me). The only difference is, you can keep moving (in fact that's the POINT) with silence, while with cloaking you're either standing perfectly still on a ceiling or you're dead. Cloakwalking is just too easy to spot.
Don't get cloaking, especially right away. You need to gain levels as fast as possible in the early combat game, and any other upgrade will let you acheive this more than cloaking. Not to mention it's useless late game, where the extra one bite doesn't really mean much, while silence will never be completely useless unless every marine gets MT AND checks behind them constantly, and even so it's useful to be able to bite one marine in a group without alerting the others.
Wow you really don't know what you're talking about, sorry.
MC has great complimenting abilities, and benifits the skulk the most. A celerity fade will not cut it IN A MATCH vs a regen or cara fade. Gorges tend to be a waste of a player, so donating 1/6th of your entire team to strictly building and healing is also a waste. Scilence lerk is also a waste of res, but adren or celerity I'll admit is good.
And weapons 1 before armor 1 is also known as the "I really don't know what the hell I'm saying" argument. You can live for 50% longer with armor 1, or kill a gorge in a bullet or 2 less with weapons 1. It kills skulks NO faster whatsoever, unless they have upgrades. And no amount of your so called "skill" is going to stop a decent skulk who gets a good ambush on you from getting 2 bites.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find hiding around and biting people to be dishonorable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it's honourable to go on a kamakazi mission, only without any chance of causeing any damage whatsoever. Got it.
Just becaue a chamber is "OMG SO COOL" doesn't mean it's actually numerically (which also means situationaly) more effective.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and any other upgrade will let you acheive this more than cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. not any upgrade <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Go gorge or adren first? Naaaaah. But you're right about it being foolish to get cloaking first.
Well.. not any upgrade <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Go gorge or adren first? Naaaaah. But you're right about it being foolish to get cloaking first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I guess as long as we're being nit-picky, I'd take cloaking over redemption as my first upgrade, though it's reeeeally annoying whenever a skulk redeems on you.....on second thought, I'd take redemption <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To quote you-
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
In Combat, every decent skulk choose(s) celerity
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DECENT skulk. In NS, not every player is decent. Unlike combat, your choices WILL affect them. If you choose MC first and they're all mediocre players then you're going to lose BADLY. Thats why people go for the safe option of DC first.
DC first also allows defence against turret lockdowns - regen and carapace are your friends. DC keeps bad players alive longer. And it can be used just as well by better players - MC can't be used well by lower class players.
So it ends up DC first. NS is a TEAM game, so you have to use team strengths. Dropping MC because it makes you an individually better player is a pretty pointless move, and will earn you the disrespect of the team if not a one way ticket off the server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly, but if youa are playing with experienced skulker's and people who know to get that second hive up ASAP then MC is actually the best choice. DC is safe for pubs.
Gorges becoming wicked good healers eh? Well yeah that is true but a well placed DC can do that and passively too.
Every lerk I know of wants regen over silence as a first upgrade. Yes, silence does rock (I favor adrenline as a lerk but I definately see the arguement for silence), but if I'm pestering marines and they see me silence does crap. No matter how good you may think you are a good marine will know where that vent is and will be waiting for you. Regen allows you not to die after a barrage of bullets since you can sit around and heal up without having to make that risky hive trip at low health. It protects your lerk investment.
I see your fade arguement though. As a fade I want celerity. Regen and carapace rock but in my opnion I want celerity. Also, if I get fade really fast silence can be absolutely devasting if you have good skulks painting targets and you come up from behind. I do agree with whoever said a DC is better for defending a hive going up. When I fade I am out "in the field" so a MC works for me. A DC is much better for defending for self-explainatory reasons.
Wow you really don't know what you're talking about, sorry.
MC has great complimenting abilities, and benifits the skulk the most. A celerity fade will not cut it IN A MATCH vs a regen or cara fade. Gorges tend to be a waste of a player, so donating 1/6th of your entire team to strictly building and healing is also a waste. Scilence lerk is also a waste of res, but adren or celerity I'll admit is good.
And weapons 1 before armor 1 is also known as the "I really don't know what the hell I'm saying" argument. You can live for 50% longer with armor 1, or kill a gorge in a bullet or 2 less with weapons 1. It kills skulks NO faster whatsoever, unless they have upgrades. And no amount of your so called "skill" is going to stop a decent skulk who gets a good ambush on you from getting 2 bites.
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ehhh ok i messed up those numbers
but i aint talking bout a match
why not pushing people gorge? a fade is not a marine killing machine. if you need a fade to take down elected rts or turrets, why not a skulk and a gorge? skulks run the game, so why not benefit them? they are the majority, why not? ok enjoy your dc. i just get so bored with them