This thread has gotten way off topic, which is sad because it is a good idea.
My beef is that if you decide to gorge without a bucket of res to do so, you will either waste 10 res going gorge and then back to skulk, or you'll be sitting around waiting for res to accumulate. And since they can't kill anything, it comes in even SLOWER.
If the gorge costs 5 res however, then quickly going gorge, dropping an RT, and going back to skulk isn't as big a problem, and aliens might be as thrifty in dropping nozzles as the Commander is. Imagine how many resource nozzles the marines would drop if they each cost 25 a piece? That's my point. Lower the Gorge cost.
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
i'mma just say this...OC limit....you cannot fully secure a hive with only 8 ocs i.e great viaduct hive has alot of space and not all ocs are oftenly used as effectively as posbbile.
<!--QuoteBegin-SinSpawn+Aug 8 2004, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SinSpawn @ Aug 8 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i'mma just say this...OC limit....you cannot fully secure a hive with only 8 ocs i.e great viaduct hive has alot of space and not all ocs are oftenly used as effectively as posbbile.
10-12 limit would be better? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem with what you are saying is a twofold:
1) 8 Ocs, if you as a single alien had 80+ res why not set another hive of go ONOS and kill some marine res, take out spawn etc.? If you had 80 res lying around chances you are winning or it is a small game, of the latter I say go ahead. If you are saying 8 ocs being built by teammates, I seriously believe this is wrong. Hives should be built along with RTs, you also need fades to take care of troubled areas and maybe even lerks.
2) This problem has to do with positioning. IF you have 80 res or your team does, whatever... drop the OCs in the hallways BEFORE the hive, it makes the much more effecient since they can block siege AND they have less distance to cover which is a good thing. For the best results place them right before a bend.
EDIT: Text pictures don't work... basically make a L as a turn and place ocs in the middle of the lower line of a capital L, assuming marines will come down the longer vertical shaft of the L.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
I like the idea of making the gorge more accessible, especially since it is the only strategic unit left, and doesn't have the strategy <MASH KEYS AS FAST AS POSSIBLE>.
Either that or bring back a bit more strategy somehow, maybe introduce another long range aliens weapon since spikes were removed.
You are underestimating the usefulness of a lerk. What you're saying now is a slap in the face to the lerk, which is undoubtibly the best support life form in the game, hands down.
about 4 or 5 seconds in spore will effectively nullify armor 1, umbra blocks 1/2 bullets, bite is deadly in te hands of experienced lerks, and primal scream increases movement speed, ROF, and <b>damage</b> to anyone within range. Honestly, a 30 second lerk will make it utter hell for the marine team.
Gorges can get away pretty fast when bunnyhopping, so they arn't always free res.
Leave OCs the way they are. They arn't supposed to be the "OMG LOL, I'VE GOT 2 OCS HERE, NOTHING IS GETTING PAST IT", it supposed to be an indicator of where the marines are moving. Place them in popular seige spots and in hives. If they don't shoot it, they don't live long enough to establish any kind of attack, if they DO shoot it, they aler the whole team to its location.
Personaly, I think they should chain the alien lifeforms again, make gorge 5 res, ocs 5 res, lerks 25res, starting res should be 20 and skulk should be free. That would bring back some of the strategy lost by chaining the hives. Also, bring back lerk spikes!
<!--QuoteBegin-HumanoidBeta+Aug 27 2004, 01:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HumanoidBeta @ Aug 27 2004, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personaly, I think they should chain the alien lifeforms again, make gorge 5 res, ocs 5 res, lerks 25res, starting res should be 20 and skulk should be free. That would bring back some of the strategy lost by chaining the hives. Also, bring back lerk spikes! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Read Lito's post. Lerks don't need spikes, use spores.
My suggestions make all buildings come at the same time as beta4a unless you gorge multiple times and the lerk will come at the same time as beta4a as well. Fade and Onos will come 5 res later that is the only major change.
Best idea is still lowering the gorge cost to 5, starting resources to 20, and lerk cost to 25.
Everything shows up at the same time except for fades and onos, they are delayed by 5 rez. I don't see how this could be anything but better for the gorge and for the game as a whole. A 5 resource delay for the fade will not make aliens lose. It will hopefully encourage more lerking which is on the whole a more strategic creature and will make the game more interesting.
as for the slightly off topic "gorges and OCs" ... I would love to see the cost dropped from 10 to 8. It lets gorges do more than drop nodes and chambers and the occasional wall of lame.
It will reduce the effectiveness of sieges because, hopefully, gorges will spend more res on groups of OCs that are just outside the hive in would be siege locations, giving the team a first line of defense that normaly they couldn't afford.
I want to say more on chamber and OC costs but i don't want this thread locked...
Another point in favor of the cost reduction for gorges and lerks... -If a player joins the alien team a few minutes into the game he starts with zero resources, he is granted only the benefits from multiple hives. -If a player joins the marine team a few minutes into the game he gets the benefit of every upgrade already researched and is just as valuable as the marines you started with.
The new alien has no immediate value beyond being another skulk.
By reducing the cost of gorging to 5 and lerk to 25, you're making that new alien a LOT more valuable, *should they choose to gorge or lerk.* This is a small but welcome balance in my opinion... aliens that just joined can get into the fight 5 rez sooner to help balance out new marines that are already at 100% effectiveness.
Comments
My beef is that if you decide to gorge without a bucket of res to do so, you will either waste 10 res going gorge and then back to skulk, or you'll be sitting around waiting for res to accumulate. And since they can't kill anything, it comes in even SLOWER.
If the gorge costs 5 res however, then quickly going gorge, dropping an RT, and going back to skulk isn't as big a problem, and aliens might be as thrifty in dropping nozzles as the Commander is. Imagine how many resource nozzles the marines would drop if they each cost 25 a piece? That's my point. Lower the Gorge cost.
10-12 limit would be better?
10-12 limit would be better? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with what you are saying is a twofold:
1) 8 Ocs, if you as a single alien had 80+ res why not set another hive of go ONOS and kill some marine res, take out spawn etc.? If you had 80 res lying around chances you are winning or it is a small game, of the latter I say go ahead. If you are saying 8 ocs being built by teammates, I seriously believe this is wrong. Hives should be built along with RTs, you also need fades to take care of troubled areas and maybe even lerks.
2) This problem has to do with positioning. IF you have 80 res or your team does, whatever... drop the OCs in the hallways BEFORE the hive, it makes the much more effecient since they can block siege AND they have less distance to cover which is a good thing. For the best results place them right before a bend.
EDIT: Text pictures don't work... basically make a L as a turn and place ocs in the middle of the lower line of a capital L, assuming marines will come down the longer vertical shaft of the L.
Either that or bring back a bit more strategy somehow, maybe introduce another long range aliens weapon since spikes were removed.
about 4 or 5 seconds in spore will effectively nullify armor 1, umbra blocks 1/2 bullets, bite is deadly in te hands of experienced lerks, and primal scream increases movement speed, ROF, and <b>damage</b> to anyone within range. Honestly, a 30 second lerk will make it utter hell for the marine team.
Gorges can get away pretty fast when bunnyhopping, so they arn't always free res.
Leave OCs the way they are. They arn't supposed to be the "OMG LOL, I'VE GOT 2 OCS HERE, NOTHING IS GETTING PAST IT", it supposed to be an indicator of where the marines are moving. Place them in popular seige spots and in hives. If they don't shoot it, they don't live long enough to establish any kind of attack, if they DO shoot it, they aler the whole team to its location.
Read Lito's post. Lerks don't need spikes, use spores.
My suggestions make all buildings come at the same time as beta4a unless you gorge multiple times and the lerk will come at the same time as beta4a as well. Fade and Onos will come 5 res later that is the only major change.
Best idea is still lowering the gorge cost to 5, starting resources to 20, and lerk cost to 25.
Everything shows up at the same time except for fades and onos, they are delayed by 5 rez. I don't see how this could be anything but better for the gorge and for the game as a whole. A 5 resource delay for the fade will not make aliens lose. It will hopefully encourage more lerking which is on the whole a more strategic creature and will make the game more interesting.
as for the slightly off topic "gorges and OCs" ... I would love to see the cost dropped from 10 to 8. It lets gorges do more than drop nodes and chambers and the occasional wall of lame.
It will reduce the effectiveness of sieges because, hopefully, gorges will spend more res on groups of OCs that are just outside the hive in would be siege locations, giving the team a first line of defense that normaly they couldn't afford.
I want to say more on chamber and OC costs but i don't want this thread locked...
Another point in favor of the cost reduction for gorges and lerks...
-If a player joins the alien team a few minutes into the game he starts with zero resources, he is granted only the benefits from multiple hives.
-If a player joins the marine team a few minutes into the game he gets the benefit of every upgrade already researched and is just as valuable as the marines you started with.
The new alien has no immediate value beyond being another skulk.
By reducing the cost of gorging to 5 and lerk to 25, you're making that new alien a LOT more valuable, *should they choose to gorge or lerk.* This is a small but welcome balance in my opinion... aliens that just joined can get into the fight 5 rez sooner to help balance out new marines that are already at 100% effectiveness.