Cheaters

justus · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Think twice before binding hotkey60!</div> <i>We've talked about this a million times already, and the NS team considers it a cheat. If you ever plan on competing in NS in any real fashion, scripts and console access won't be allowed. Any skills you learn using scripts like this won't apply to your real NS skills.
</i>

This is straight capture from flayras(admin or what ever) thread.So when you peoples bind your hotkey60 and hotkey59 or any radio commands in buttons remember that you are cheating...CHEATERS YOU SHALL ALL DIE!

Jon_Vincible · November 2002

Is it wrong to bind keys to bind keys to blink and swipe? You can do this from the in-game menus so i don't think it would be. It's nice however to blink, then immidiately switch to swipe. I'm not talking script, i'm talking 2 separate buttons with hud_fastswitch 1 on.

ONE-ARM · November 2002

Seriously binding is NOT cheating or anything like that, SCRIPTING is not the same that is using multiple commands with one button press. The NS team has put in anti <i>scripting</i> measures not anti binding.

Tactician · November 2002

The key config menu offers binds to hotkeys. Why would they use a GUI to help people do something they consider cheating? You, sir, are silly.

Rokiyo · November 2002

Console access in general will not be allowed, according to that quote.

Console access is like a loaded gun. It can be used to do very very bad things, and it can also be used for not-so-bad things too (like hunting, recreational shooting, etc).

The console is incredibly useful for things like perfecting your settings to minimise your lag, and can also be great for levelling the playfield when others have voice comms and you dont. Unlike many other scripts/binds, the mic allows players to communicate with no use of the keyboard, and communication binds can mimic that to a small extent.

However no player, mic or not is capable of spamming the kharaa chuckle 5 times in one second normally, and not many players can normally hold down forward, switch to leap, fire, switch to bite, fire all in the space of time it takes to complete a leap. Those who can do so through the use of particularly skilled finger work or pricey equipment deserve their advantage. Either way, it came as a result of hard-work or genetics. It's like fake tanning lotion (which I thoroughly dissaprove of), it takes the reward out of hard work and long hours...

Venmoch · November 2002

Some scripts = Good
Some Scripts = BAD

I wouldn't mind a script that allows me to say things I say a lot (Node Here etc) but then I can see why Flay and co do not want a leap button or a blink button (although I have no mouse wheel <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'> )

Brutus · November 2002

Taking out the console would be a huge mistake. People have been binding jump + crouch since Half-Life came out. If the NS devs think that is a cheat, which I doubt they do, then they need to understand that it was here before them.

Belabor · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If the NS devs think that is a cheat, which I doubt they do, then they need to understand that it was here before them.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

This makes no sense. If the devs want to level the playing feild for all players, so that noobs have to use the same controls that you do, would that really bother you that much?

I'd welcome these sorts of changes.. But, I think it would make sense if players automaticly ducked when they jumped, etc. If there is a real advantage to doing this, and it isn't obvious to anyone playing it for the first time, why don't the player models just do it automaticly?

justus · November 2002

Well my point was that they are saying that console acces is not allowed...you can just bind r_drawviewmodel 0 to 2 keys other put it on other take it away.If you are not allowed to use console then you are not allowed to bind team_say: i need ammo either?What about script what does this: use radio command need healt and in same time says it in team_say?

Brutus · November 2002

It makes perfect sense. You use things like fps_max, rate, cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, etc to give you better performance from server to server. It is not my fault if people do not learn about the engine.

If it is a command that makes you see through walls then I could understand why it should go away. Binding crouch and jump to one key just saves your wrist and finger a little strain.

Brutus · November 2002

I think using your monitor or keyboard in any fashion while playing is a cheat.

Belabor · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you are not allowed to use console then you are not allowed to bind team_say: i need ammo either?What about script what does this: use radio command need healt and in same time says it in team_say?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Why would you do this? Why would you spam team_say with I need health/ammo when the comm system is all the commander needs to hear?

And to answer Brutus' question, you don't need the console to set those things. They can all be set in the halflife menu system.. Which sucks, yes, but it works.

Paladyne-TPF · November 2002

Ok, but how about simple macros, stuff like:

"Affirmative!"
"Negative!"
"Resource Node Here!"
"Please set up a hive ASAP!"

and so on and so on. These are <i>not</i> bindable from the menu, are <i>not</i> cheats in any form, and <i>are</i> very necessary to play at the higher levels. Voice comm cannot and should not be used to handle <i>all</i> communication, and typing takes too long. If they remove console access they will making an <b>enormous</b> mistake, one that will more likely than not drive off most of the serious players they're looking to attract.

pielemuis · November 2002

the team could laways hardcode certain variables. I know there's a CS plugin that locks certain variables (ex_interp and gamma settigns etc.). If the devs don't want people to play with r_drawviewmodel 0, they can force it on .

Align · November 2002

There is a downside to using that. Your hivesight goes away. And so does most of your other status information... so I doubt it will be removed...

Catgirl · November 2002

Or you can understand it's Flayra's game and you play the way that he intends you to play, through his code. Don't like it? Don't play then.

Obviously scripts aren't ESSENTIAL to the gameplay...people have been managing so far.

digz · November 2002

catgirl steps up to the plate...
swings...
its a HOMERUN!!!!

I think the neccesary sayings that are used the most are already included in the ns menu system(although I think the aliens need to be re-worked). The only other saying I can think of is "node here" and you only say that how often, or you usually get to that node from a waypoint the com gave you, so he knows.

Catgirl · November 2002

"Node Here" would be kinda useless since you can't see other Marines on your radar so there's no way to tell where the person was who said it, and in which direction it was. If other Marines appeared on Radar, then their icon could flash to show where they were when they said that. Though, it'd be kind of irritating listening to constant voice-macro spam and constantly flashing icons.

Warfare · November 2002

What is hotkey 59 and hotkey60?

Binding radio commands is no cheat. Just saves you the rightclick.

Catgirl · November 2002

"Scripts" is talking more about one button that, for example, switches from Claws to Blink on Fade, jumps and ducks, Blinks, then switches back to Claws automatically.

Rokiyo · November 2002

no, removing console access wouldn't really work out, because most scripters these days write stuff directly into the .cfg files.

Sure, HL backs up the config.cfg each time you exit and resaves it when you start HL up again (to try and stop you making changes to config.cfg), but there are ways around that too.

I'm pretty certain the general rule will be to not allow scripts in competitions, like many of the DoD tournies do the same for custom models etc (Can you imagine someone recreating the axis player models so that they carried huge "I am here" flags above them? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'> )

I certainly do hope, however, the flayra figures out an effictive way to block cheating scripts...

justus · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Catgirl @ Nov 9 2002, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Or you can understand it's Flayra's game and you play the way that he intends you to play, through his code. Don't like it? Don't play then.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Who said that i dont like this game?and by the way this is not flayras game, it is valves game with flayras expansion <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

MeltedSnowman · November 2002

I use the console to exit.

Don't take away my console. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

coil · November 2002

The console is not going to be "taken away" - that's ridiculous, and whoever said it doesn't know what he's talking about.

However, scripts that do things like
-blinking/leaping with an auto-switch to swipe/bite at the end
-turning off the skulk viewmodel when attacking
-rapidfire pistol (the pistol speed was capped at 6 rounds/sec to prevent this)
-etc

are considered cheating. All these things are elements of gameplay and balance; scripts that affect them affect the way the game is meant to be played.

But not allowing you to use the console, period? That's just silly.

Dr_Shaggy · November 2002

I think the anti-script code was a great idea, but it's a little rough in practice. I'll assume that the code resides on the server for security purposes and that makes sense, but on servers of questionable badwidth/power, I can kill myself with ease when I'm a skulk. Leap has got to be one of my favorite abilities, if just for getting around after I've died. But in 'laggy' servers, I can quickly leap, hit 1 and bite and kill myself pretty easily. This happens sometimes in the heat of battle when I spaz on my keyboard and its a little frustrating, but now that I think about it, I'll sacrifice a few deaths on slower servers to stop scripting. Theres many lag-free servers out there now anyhow (yay patch).

Litany · November 2002

What about a script that says "I need ammo here." on the chat channel and flashes the radio command to the commander at the same time?

Necro · November 2002

you CAN bind, but not make aliases.

LiquidFusion · November 2002

i don't script, but i don't mind people doing the "bite no teeth" script. I can bite everymarine outthere with it on, and i easily manage. The leap and bite script stuff is ok too. I mean i really don't see the problem with it. You can do that in the game already all you're doing is making a short cut.

MrBatman · November 2002

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'> Just about the only way you can get unstuck if you're building stuff as a gorge and get stuck in your work is to pull down console and type "kill." If they don't allow console there are going to be a lot of stuck players in the game.

LiquidFusion · November 2002

uhhhh if they get rid of the console that will be completely useless. Valve and flayra are both pretty smart people. They realize that if they "ban" the console they can't "ban" config files. If you get rid of the console all ppl will do it put bind stuff to their config file.

my favorite config line ever

bind mouse1 kill

Dr_Shaggy · November 2002

Sweet jesus people, nobody's gonna take away your precious console! Where did this idea come from?

Cheaters

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