About The New Alien Spawn System In Co Mode
Nataku
Join Date: 2004-09-03 Member: 31247Members
Join Date: 2004-09-03 Member: 31247Members
Well i dont think its gonna be a good idea. Now maybe those who always play marine will love it but those who play both uhm well look at it this way.
playing on a 20 player CO server all aliens where killed and marines are right outside the hive they walk in spam the entire area full with nades and then you spawn as a SKULK.. Well i think its pretty clear what happens then every skulk dead and marines can freely attack the hive. In beta 3 if a onos spawned he atleast could do something back because he does not die of 1 nade.
I like to play both sides but i dont think playing as a alien is gonna be that fun anymore. Because what can a skulk do against a HA or a JP with a nade launcher. They are dead before they even get the time to evolve. I really think this is a bad idea and it is true that when the aliens get to the point where 50% or more excists out of onos its almost impossible to win for the marines. But its not impossible it really depends on what your team does. Now maybe in clan matches this would be a good idea but on puplic servers team play is not always that super.
Now you can flame or say whatever you want but these are my thoughts about it rigth now. And this is just to make a normal disccusion. And maybe it will all ok after i played it a bit and i will take back what i just said.
Greetz Nataku
playing on a 20 player CO server all aliens where killed and marines are right outside the hive they walk in spam the entire area full with nades and then you spawn as a SKULK.. Well i think its pretty clear what happens then every skulk dead and marines can freely attack the hive. In beta 3 if a onos spawned he atleast could do something back because he does not die of 1 nade.
I like to play both sides but i dont think playing as a alien is gonna be that fun anymore. Because what can a skulk do against a HA or a JP with a nade launcher. They are dead before they even get the time to evolve. I really think this is a bad idea and it is true that when the aliens get to the point where 50% or more excists out of onos its almost impossible to win for the marines. But its not impossible it really depends on what your team does. Now maybe in clan matches this would be a good idea but on puplic servers team play is not always that super.
Now you can flame or say whatever you want but these are my thoughts about it rigth now. And this is just to make a normal disccusion. And maybe it will all ok after i played it a bit and i will take back what i just said.
Greetz Nataku
Comments
With this new system, they can buff the onos a bit more, so it's great. It has been tested intensively, so I don't believe nade spamming will be a problem. Anyway, we have to play to see.
Edit: Also, gestation times are even smaller than they were in beta 4a.
THANK YOU!
Jees. I don't belive that nearly got left unsaid.
**CO IS FOR TRAINING PEOPLE TO PLAY NS**
The mindless nub slaying is just a bonus.
If I am leading a team of aliens against a reasonably organised rine team, I do not want some [expletive] to fade, die, fade, die, fade, die...
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Nade spam?!
a) Rines get nades... there's a first. Maybe one per team, tops.
b) The nades landing near enough to kill every spawning skulk (remember, cheesy's-style respawn now,) simultanesouly. :\
I don't think it will be an issue.
Just for interest, this mode of combat play already exists. Mp_ironman 1 I think. It was just never used.
^^
plus lets wait and see how it turns out before we jump to conclusions!
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nataku, welcome to the forums!
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Hmmm....well the new respawn system should fix that, but if its like 4 HA's in the hive then skulks are NOT gonna take em on. We will just have to see what its like.
Oh and I love the idea of having to pick a new lifeform every time you die, coz I hate it when you lerk and think 'aww I'm rubbish as lerk, and its an extra level to go to fade'. Most of the time you dont do it on servers without the extra levels plugin coz u dont want to waste a lev and end up f4ing.
a) Rines get nades... there's a first. Maybe one per team, tops.
b) The nades landing near enough to kill every spawning skulk (remember, cheesy's-style respawn now,) simultanesouly. :\
I don't think it will be an issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's talking about Grenade Launchers, not hand grenades.
And this will probably be an issue. Quite frankly, I like the option of re-evolving to fit a situation, but when theres 6+ Marines with full upgrades in your hive and you all spawn as skulks, theres not going to BE any time to evolve to combat that situation.
Quite frankly I think there should be a little dialogue that pops that asks you if you want to respawn as what you were, or a vanilla skulk. Just a simple Yes/No Question box, and you won't respawn untill a selection is made.
And this also should be implemented for both sides, to allow adaptation to on both sides.
It would add variety and fun.
I'll play it before I ****, but I forsee a LOT of alien spawncamp games coming up.
a) Rines get nades... there's a first. Maybe one per team, tops.
b) The nades landing near enough to kill every spawning skulk (remember, cheesy's-style respawn now,) simultanesouly. :\
I don't think it will be an issue. [/QUOTE]
He's talking about Grenade Launchers, not hand grenades.
And this will probably be an issue. Quite frankly, I like the option of re-evolving to fit a situation, but when theres 6+ Marines with full upgrades in your hive and you all spawn as skulks, theres not going to BE any time to evolve to combat that situation.
Quite frankly I think there should be a little dialogue that pops that asks you if you want to respawn as what you were, or a vanilla skulk. Just a simple Yes/No Question box, and you won't respawn untill a selection is made.
And this also should be implemented for both sides, to allow adaptation to on both sides.
It would add variety and fun.
I'll play it before I ****, but I forsee a LOT of alien spawncamp games coming up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes no sense, because for everyone to be a skulk they must all die in a wasted life. Hopefully we will see some moderation with how the alien classes are played now since once you die you have to spend some time to re-evolve.
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The aliens can win by stopping the marines for 10 minutes; (dependent on server) allowing multiple marines in the hive room is a severe lapse in defense and should be punished with spawn camping.
Let's play it before we trash it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thanks that's helpful.
Guys, there could even be a bit of stratigy in pub-play. If you have some of your team super-skulk, they don't have to worry about re-evolving, and do have the potential to break quite the spawn camp should 2-3 of them spawn in out of the 5.
Even better, a player can now go gorge and if they die can go something else. Allows for dynamic strategy changes based on situations.
far out, this patch sucks.
you don't loose your skill points... a quick gestate and you're back as onos...
(i wonder if you loose focus and such too)
I take everything I said Back.
Best. Update. Ever.
Of course I'd also like to see the same stuff on the marine side, but there aren't a bunch of bindables that I'm aware of for the marine side that would make going hambone easy for them... they would still have to use the menus.
So in addition I'd like to see bindables in the config menu for upgrading all the marine upgrades.
Then I could see a viable hambone mode (where upgrades are basically instantaneous and easy to access). Though alien lifeforms should still keep some sense of evolution as CO IS supposed to teach the laymen how they would normally interact otherwise.
I just gave it a quick bash and when I respawned I still had chamber upgrades. So if you go super skulk your still stuck as one. Helpful tho that you can go straight to the lifeform rather than steps.
there are bindables, you just need to enter them in the console. they're called impulses, do a quick seach and you'll see what im talking about
And nade spamming is pretty commen then. I think i would agree this idea would be great in clan games. But i will need to see it in co i am downloading beta 5 right now so i will just stay a optimist and see about it.
Greetz Nataku
Neither should you die as jet pack or heavy armor while ramboing alone through the map, should you?
Great, combat is teaching newcomers they should try harder to stay alive as fade/onos, but is also teaching them they can always have any weapon and equipment anytime they want from the commander.
Remember that the older co maps were developed to cope with older ns3.0bx rules....
until ppl make custom maps to balance out this lamenss of the new spawn system, playing aliens on CO is going to be rough on aliens because of marine spawn campers.
If you want to make it slower do the same for both teams, not just 1. Makes them wait in spawn for the ha's and jp's...
ohh wait that would just make ppl spawn camp more and really slow down play of combat. then we will rename 'combat' to 'waiting to attack'.
It is changes like these that make me feel like the developers never read the forums and never play natural selection.
So far combat in beta 2 is the best since it is the most balanced.
The new respawn system fixes it by preventing you from respawning, so you don't have to worry about going onos when you spawn. Rather, you get to spend time watching people play NS, which is much more convenient than actually playing the game yourself. You can use your hands for other things, like eating, knitting, building balsawood airplanes, or just punching yourself repeatedly in the face.
I especially love the way it, unlike Cheezy's Respawn System, doesn't tell you how long you have until you spawn. This enhances the excitement of the game because you're on the edge of your seat wondering whether you will get to play again before the end of the round, unlike in Counter-Strike, where you know you will not get to play and can go grab a snack or something.
Certainly, the new respawn system has only given us benefits. Benefits like reducing all game times to under three minutes. Because nobody likes to play for more than three minutes at a time. A game that involves something other than a one-sided beat down, determined by who happens to get lucky in the first 30 seconds, is not a game worth playing.
Here's what I noticed.
It was either a total skulk victory in CO, within 3 minutes, because of the initial contact, or it was an eventual marine victory, defined completely by grenades.
In earlier versions, if too many of your guys went grenades, it was a bad thing, due to onos, etc. Now, there is no real bad thing to -all nades-. If you encounter the enemy spawn, its dead. A full lob of grenades will decimate -all- egging or spawning players, and as an added bonus, add almost a minute to their spawn time (it seems).
Additionally, because it gives you those points back when you spawn instead of keeping the life form, it seems that players are more apt to spend those fresh points on upgrades than go back to that life form. I've seen MUCH, MUCH fewer higher life forms - tis become a skulk-vs-marine game, a lot less varied. Its super skulks vs marines. Its just not efficient to use onos or fade anymore, due to the time.
Instead of the aliens 'defending' as was intended, the scenario now has become marines lining up at wahtever defense point there is at the beginning of the match, and then in the next 3-5 minutes, exping by camping, and 'defending'. Then, when they have nades, winning the match.
Maybe the game seems more 'balanced' on paper now, but it is CERTAINLY has less variety, and is more predictable with near zero chance of comeback in CO if a grenadier gets into the alien spawn. basically, one or two marines can spawncamp the entire team. It takes more than two skulks to spawncamp the entire marine team.
And even if the other teammates kill the guy who just lobbed 4 grenades into the enemy spawn, in a nice large game, the spawn time penalty induced by those 4 grenades is ludicrous, and generally means that grenadier will be back (or if he's not dead... RELOADED) by the time fresh skulks spawn.
Maybe the 'spawn time' equation should be modified by some floating number that depends on number of players on team, so it scales to large and small games.
If you think about it, it makes no sense to use a hard number like 'five at a time', when the actual number of players can range from 5 to 16. It should be 'x at a time... at y interval' where x and y are based on the number of players in the game.
But it really is a problem to spawn as a skulk.
Maybe just make it so they can de-evolve to a skulk if they choose.. .even if you have to make it take twice as long to do that as it would to evolve to whatever you are now... its still better than 'one rambo marine reaches the spawn and wins it'. Cuz often theres no way to stop a rambo (jetpacker). The new system (spawn as skulk + spawn so slowly) lets ONE jp win it instead of as a team.
..
Oh, and about the 'all aliens have to do is defend'. c'mon. Defending is boring. I didn't once see a person on the alien team even mention defending, and I don't blame them. Its boring to sit and defend your hive. Especially when you can win in 3 minutes if you're lucky. 'Wait ten minutes to win' is about the most boring game concept I've heard in a long time...
Now as for the new spawn system for he aliens. Yes it turned out oke since aliens can now change tactics and adjust to a situation. So that turned out better then i thought it would.
But the spawning system is kinda ennoys me. I loved the longer lasting games in CO (say like 15 to 20 min). Either i played alien or marine. But now it only take 3 min or 7 min tops. Now offcourse this is what the dev team wanted with CO so i will say they did a good job on accomplishing that. But i think i am not the only one that liked the long lasting CO games.
I liked beta 3 the best i think alot of the real clan players here will disagree but this is my opinion. I good option in CO would be to be to give server admins the mean of chaning the spawn rates and maybe turn on or off the new alien spawn system. Dont know if this is even possibles or if the devs even feel like putting it in. But it would solve the problem for those who like it right now and for those who liked it the way it was.
But then again when something new comes this sort things are bound to be said so maybe in one month this entire discussion will be forgoten and we will play it like nothing ever happend.
Greetz Nataku