Ok, since if I include absolutly anything else in my post someone will argue that rather than my main point I will just say this.
You asked weather people thought it was stupid that some servers require the losing team to stick with it to the absolute end, because you don't find the end game fun. You found that there was indeed a plethora of people who preferred to allow games to run to thier finish rather than having their's or the other team effectively surrender. From here you can only assume that there must be a reasonable and legitimate demand for servers that dissallow surrendering, and thus you have the option of accepting this and not surrendering when on one of those servers, or finding servers that don't care if surrender, because the consensis on this issue is no where near as one sided as it would need to be for anyone to legitimately take action on one side or another.
Your arguing that hotdogs are better than hamburgers here, the issue has no right or wrong side, just opinionitive points. I prefer to play a game through to the end, and thus I will play on servers that don't allow the other team to end the game prematurely, and if you are gonna tell me that I don't deserve to do that then you can go screw yourself.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
At a certain point you know you've won, and anything beyond that just drags the game out, which most definitely is rarely fun for the losing team. I know that personally I find it frustrating to try and break marine start holdouts as an alien, because it's pretty damn hard to kill 8+ marines in a pub by yourself as lerk, and they usually have a lot of big guns that tend to make flying in difficult. You know the fades and onos won't go in, they just sit and stare stupidly at the marines. On marines I'm usually the comm, so the end comes swift and painlessly most of the time, as soon as I feel the game has turned in my favor. I see plenty of commanders who can't manage to end the game on timehowever, dragging it out for way too long. I agree with keelem, it's usually quite a waste of time if the other team isn't making a genuine effort to end the game, and easier to find another server that's starting fresh. I completely understand your frustration.
Never give up, go ruin yourself! One stupid man sayd infront of many other stupid men "Wollt ihr den totalen Krieg" when WW2 was basicly lost. Face the irony, dont compare to ns.
surrendering and f4in ist just a valid part of the game, no need to block f4 or ban a comm that recycles base to spend all the res into many distress beacons.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your arguing that hotdogs are better than hamburgers here, the issue has no right or wrong side, just opinionitive points. I prefer to play a game through to the end, and thus I will play on servers that don't allow the other team to end the game prematurely, and if you are gonna tell me that I don't deserve to do that then you can go screw yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't give a damn whether you believe that playing to the very last possible moment in a completely lost game is "fun". I'm not arguing to persuade, here; I realise it's a matter of taste, and that can't be changed.
All I'm asking is that next time it happens on a pub, those who get stir crazy about abandoning ship when it's completely lost (and aliens can't get their act together) should just try looking at it from the other side before moaning <i>on and on</i> about it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Sep 5 2004, 02:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Sep 5 2004, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Alamo stands as marines aren't USUALLY too bad.
There's no such thing as an alamo stand for aliens. It's just a miserable spawn-camped bog of suckiness. It's zero fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. Nine times out of ten when your losing as marines, its still possible to have fun. Try to knife an Onos. Chase down that gorge. Hell, try to ninja a PG to a hive. It only becomes unfun when the base has been broken, and the Onos are just Devour-camping the IP's.
Thats probably why there was a call to ban you from <b>both</b> teams. Your marines were still having fun. So you lost your command game. I agree, when you command a game at it reaches the unwinnable point, it sucks. But only for <b>you.</b> Your grunts are still having fun. So grow some short hairs, get out of the chair, and go have some mindless fun yourself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would totally understand aliens conceding a game however. Spawing as a skulk with no upgrades against HA/JP's/Heavy Weapons leaves very little room for fun. Its just fustrating, for the team as a whole. A gorge managed to ninja a Hive? Yay for him, its still takes several minutes to grow, and by then the Heavy Train will have long finished off the main hive, most of your team will be dead in spawn-limbo, and all they have to do is march to that growing hive, and gun in down in less than 10 seconds. F4 is totally understandable in a situation like that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jabba The Hunt+Sep 4 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jabba The Hunt @ Sep 4 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2) most of us have seen comebacks from what looks like a totally unwinnable situation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes sir! Like the time me and my friends were chatting in the bast RR (1.04 (miss the good ol' days)) and then we joined late (myself and best friend marine team.. wonder whats happened to him..- oh uh *ahem* anyways) only to find the CC and comm chair destroyed (ns_hera!!!). We ralled the rest of our small, unworthy marine team into an elite task force, and marched into the hive, shooting everything with pinpoint accuracy, and we lost a lot of men, but finally slaughtered the hive. My god, that could have been made into a ten minute movie for SURE. It was the best game I'd ever played.
But yeah, no comback chance at all anymore, and in SC or WCIII I usually stay to chat with the player as hes destroying the base, I've made tons of friends that way (I wonder what happened to them..)
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Sep 4 2004, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Sep 4 2004, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is nothing worse than playing as hard as you can, beating back the other team, only to see that little message telling you your team has won, even when you've not so much as attacked marine start, let alone taken it down.
It's annoying as hell, the winning team has earned the victory, let them have it, sure, it takes a minute or two longer, but they deserve to have a proper win than a half-arsed surrender.
Besides, if the marine team were to recycle the base each time the game appears lost, the average round time would be about 3 minutes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What do you mean "let them have it"? As you said, that little F4 message doesn't state that you lost, yet you won. Be satisfied in the fact that you beat the other team squarely enough to make them F4, instead of being angry about it because they didn't let you destroy their base.
If this game had generally good sportsmanship on pubs, you'd see teams F4 almost every game where comebacks are never possible. This game time is wasted, and I don't see how one can have fun "mopping up" lower lifeforms. I generally consider it poor sportsmanship on the winning team when they whine about how they couldn't kill skulks 30 times with an HMG before they shot the hive, or about why couldn't the marines wait for the aliens to get 5 onos to break the base.
Forfeiting a game in SC is almost considered polite so the winning team doesn't have to stay in the game and kill every last building. Almost never is a CS scrim/match played to the full 30 rounds unless it is just to achieve experience. Checkmating in chess is even rarer in the professional level. I'm not sure why the NS community is still so immature as to beat the opposing team into a pulp, but I would take it as a breath of fresh air if this changed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Keyser59+Sep 5 2004, 08:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Keyser59 @ Sep 5 2004, 08:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not sure why the NS community is still so immature as to beat the opposing team into a pulp, but I would take it as a breath of fresh air if this changed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Remember NS's general audience. Adolescent Males. Rethink that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Sep 5 2004, 06:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Sep 5 2004, 06:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your arguing that hotdogs are better than hamburgers here, the issue has no right or wrong side, just opinionitive points. I prefer to play a game through to the end, and thus I will play on servers that don't allow the other team to end the game prematurely, and if you are gonna tell me that I don't deserve to do that then you can go screw yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't give a damn whether you believe that playing to the very last possible moment in a completely lost game is "fun". I'm not arguing to persuade, here; I realise it's a matter of taste, and that can't be changed.
All I'm asking is that next time it happens on a pub, those who get stir crazy about abandoning ship when it's completely lost (and aliens can't get their act together) should just try looking at it from the other side before moaning <i>on and on</i> about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not gonna whine one way or the other about it. I don't play nearly at all on any servers that don't have policies against recycling bases and F4ing. So if you're doing it on a server that I am playing on, you can expect to be kicked, and if it happens again you can expect to be banned. You can expect me to warn you or report you, and that is pretty much it.
I follow the rules of the servers I play on because I chose to play on those servers due to the fact that I like thier rules, and if you don't play that way, don't expect anyone to want to keep you around.
There is no unwritten rule in NS that every game has to play to compleation, and I'm certainly not going to be spouting off about it in some random pub.
[EDIT] <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forfeiting a game in SC is almost considered polite so the winning team doesn't have to stay in the game and kill every last building. Almost never is a CS scrim/match played to the full 30 rounds unless it is just to achieve experience. Checkmating in chess is even rarer in the professional level. I'm not sure why the NS community is still so immature as to beat the opposing team into a pulp, but I would take it as a breath of fresh air if this changed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In SC Players play for wins. If I join a game against Armanimodel and he quits 2 minutes into the game when he probably still could have won, I save the replay and start bragging, I just stole a win. Because NS isn't an individual player per race game, most players still play to win, but they play primarily for kills (and to get better at the game). In NS you can still get alot of good practice by potshoting retreating skulks, or leapbiting the last fragement of a dieing marine team. There is no clear cut 'mopping up' stage in NS, because player VS player will always remain fairly balanced fight, and there really isn't a point where the enemy literally just stops fighting back and lets you walk over them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In SC Players play for wins. If I join a game against Armanimodel and he quits 2 minutes into the game when he probably still could have won, I save the replay and start bragging, I just stole a win. Because NS isn't an individual player per race game, most players still play to win, but they play primarily for kills (and to get better at the game). In NS you can still get alot of good practice by potshoting retreating skulks, or leapbiting the last fragement of a dieing marine team. There is no clear cut 'mopping up' stage in NS, because player VS player will always remain fairly balanced fight, and there really isn't a point where the enemy literally just stops fighting back and lets you walk over them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case, wouldn't it be desireable to end the match and have the fighting stand on an even ground as soon as possible?
<!--QuoteBegin-Keyser59+Sep 5 2004, 09:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Keyser59 @ Sep 5 2004, 09:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In SC Players play for wins. If I join a game against Armanimodel and he quits 2 minutes into the game when he probably still could have won, I save the replay and start bragging, I just stole a win. Because NS isn't an individual player per race game, most players still play to win, but they play primarily for kills (and to get better at the game). In NS you can still get alot of good practice by potshoting retreating skulks, or leapbiting the last fragement of a dieing marine team. There is no clear cut 'mopping up' stage in NS, because player VS player will always remain fairly balanced fight, and there really isn't a point where the enemy literally just stops fighting back and lets you walk over them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case, wouldn't it be desireable to end the match and have the fighting stand on an even ground as soon as possible?
Wow I suck at quoting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You get better practice on your twitch muscle skill against targets than you do against threats.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You get better practice on your twitch muscle skill against targets than you do against threats.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps, you get better at pretty much everything by actually playing against a threat.
And most other players don't enjoy being "targets" for your twitch shooting practice.
Doesn't matter cause I'm not changing my mind anyways, and I really care if you understand my thoughts about the issue. Fact is I know I like playing to the end of a match better than quiting halfway through, and I know this because I have been playing a long time both ways and fixedly enjoyed games more when people didn't give up. So if I like it and I'm playing on servers that restrict people to do it, I don't see why I should beat myself over the head with stones trying to analize and explain the sourse of extra fun these games are producing for me, expecially when you won't understand anyways because your fun comes from a totally different set of origins and methods than my fun does.
I compleatly support your desire to play the game you want to play it, just don't come onto the servers that I play on and tell me that we are wrong for playing the game our way, because the issues is not a right or wrong issue, it is an issue of opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Sep 5 2004, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 5 2004, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not gonna whine one way or the other about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's fine. I don't mind a person holding an opposite opinion. I do mind that person annoying me with it. By the end of the post, I was less addressing you in particular as I was those who b*tch about F4ing in a lost game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Sep 6 2004, 06:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Sep 6 2004, 06:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Sep 5 2004, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 5 2004, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not gonna whine one way or the other about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's fine. I don't mind a person holding an opposite opinion. I do mind that person annoying me with it. By the end of the post, I was less addressing you in particular as I was those who b*tch about F4ing in a lost game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All you've been doing this entire thread is b*tching. If you weren't planning on accepting the other side, then why did you start the discussion? You just wanted to throw out there, "Oh yeah, btw, I think everyone should always f4 if the game's lost." That's great. Really. It's your own opinion, fine. But if you weren't going to discuss the pros and cons and/or at least try to understand the posistions of the people who disagree with you, you shouldn't have started this thread.
I gotta agree with Keelem... there are lots of times where marines just turret up marine start and the game just drags on endlessly and it's no fun for either team.
<!--QuoteBegin-5kyh16h91+Sep 6 2004, 06:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (5kyh16h91 @ Sep 6 2004, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All you've been doing this entire thread is b*tching. If you weren't planning on accepting the other side, then why did you start the discussion? You just wanted to throw out there, "Oh yeah, btw, I think everyone should always f4 if the game's lost." That's great. Really. It's your own opinion, fine. But if you weren't going to discuss the pros and cons and/or at least try to understand the postions of the people who disagree with you, you shouldn't have started this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A couple of things:
I didn't start the thread.
There are no cons/pros to discuss. This is entirely a matter of taste. I understand why someone might find it fun to finish off the enemy after dilly-dallying about for half an hour, but that doesn't mean I find it fun (on either team).
I'm not saying that you should F4 every time you die. I'm just asking people to not start screaming like a ninny if people F4. If it's on a specificly "non-F4" server, fine, call an admin and leave it to them. Otherwise, keep your finger off the all-chat button and accept that by F4ing or recycling IPs some of us want to start a new game. I'm not here for your amusement.
Just change server if you don't like that game. Luckily there is many servers out there. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There aren't many with decent gaming goin on, though. If I'm on an F4 server, the players are good but a hopeless situation arises (and the enemy doesn't make a serious effort to end it), I go afk and read a book. :/
1) alot of us have played RTS games and get anoyoyed with the enemy surrendering without the winning team having the joy of destroying the enemy base.
2) most of us have seen comebacks from what looks like a totally unwinnable situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that and its a curtious, and it can be fun, just to mess around
1 dumb onos knife kill your something makes up for the non fun part <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Toshax+Sep 6 2004, 07:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Toshax @ Sep 6 2004, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>MY OPINION IS : END GAME IS BORING.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> fixed
Oh and Snidley, yeah I got you and K33l3m mixed up, sorry. That is why I should not post before 7 am...... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
True, losing the game isn't much of a problem, **** happens, BUT if the other team is turtling/not putting much energy in the winning stage, it can get boring, like:
They - just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's) - do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever - don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.
This is higly annoying indeed, perhaps there should be made a button with
"Vote Surrender"
And if the whole team surrenders, they lose AND the game ends.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zaggy+Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zaggy @ Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They - just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that would be a bannable offense on most servers.....I argue under the assumption that an admin is present
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well, if they take way too long, the losing team should acquire enough res to mount an offensive again, so game on <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you would ask this if either they're spawncamping or they're not attacking, the same two conditions you already stated.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zaggy+Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zaggy @ Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> True, losing the game isn't much of a problem, **** happens, BUT if the other team is turtling/not putting much energy in the winning stage, it can get boring, like:
They - just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's) - do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever - don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.
This is higly annoying indeed, perhaps there should be made a button with
"Vote Surrender"
And if the whole team surrenders, they lose AND the game ends. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Most of you dont realize this, but F4'ing IS essentially a vote for surrendering. When enough guys decide the game is not worth continuing and F4's, "they lose AND the game ends."
On the other hand, if only a few guys F4's, then the vote fails, and the game continues on. Generally, F4 guys come back in after a few minutes of jumping around in the RR.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Sep 6 2004, 01:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Sep 6 2004, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zaggy+Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zaggy @ Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> True, losing the game isn't much of a problem, **** happens, BUT if the other team is turtling/not putting much energy in the winning stage, it can get boring, like:
They - just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's) - do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever - don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.
This is higly annoying indeed, perhaps there should be made a button with
"Vote Surrender"
And if the whole team surrenders, they lose AND the game ends. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most of you dont realize this, but F4'ing IS essentially a vote for surrendering. When enough guys decide the game is not worth continuing and F4's, "they lose AND the game ends."
On the other hand, if only a few guys F4's, then the vote fails, and the game continues on. Generally, F4 guys come back in after a few minutes of jumping around in the RR. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, because two or three people F4ing is quite fair to the rest of the team actually trying to conduct an enjoyable game. What a terrific voting system.
Comments
You asked weather people thought it was stupid that some servers require the losing team to stick with it to the absolute end, because you don't find the end game fun. You found that there was indeed a plethora of people who preferred to allow games to run to thier finish rather than having their's or the other team effectively surrender. From here you can only assume that there must be a reasonable and legitimate demand for servers that dissallow surrendering, and thus you have the option of accepting this and not surrendering when on one of those servers, or finding servers that don't care if surrender, because the consensis on this issue is no where near as one sided as it would need to be for anyone to legitimately take action on one side or another.
Your arguing that hotdogs are better than hamburgers here, the issue has no right or wrong side, just opinionitive points. I prefer to play a game through to the end, and thus I will play on servers that don't allow the other team to end the game prematurely, and if you are gonna tell me that I don't deserve to do that then you can go screw yourself.
One stupid man sayd infront of many other stupid men "Wollt ihr den totalen Krieg" when WW2 was basicly lost.
Face the irony, dont compare to ns.
surrendering and f4in ist just a valid part of the game, no need to block f4 or ban a comm that recycles base to spend all the res into many distress beacons.
I don't give a damn whether you believe that playing to the very last possible moment in a completely lost game is "fun". I'm not arguing to persuade, here; I realise it's a matter of taste, and that can't be changed.
All I'm asking is that next time it happens on a pub, those who get stir crazy about abandoning ship when it's completely lost (and aliens can't get their act together) should just try looking at it from the other side before moaning <i>on and on</i> about it.
There's no such thing as an alamo stand for aliens. It's just a miserable spawn-camped bog of suckiness. It's zero fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. Nine times out of ten when your losing as marines, its still possible to have fun. Try to knife an Onos. Chase down that gorge. Hell, try to ninja a PG to a hive. It only becomes unfun when the base has been broken, and the Onos are just Devour-camping the IP's.
Thats probably why there was a call to ban you from <b>both</b> teams. Your marines were still having fun. So you lost your command game. I agree, when you command a game at it reaches the unwinnable point, it sucks. But only for <b>you.</b> Your grunts are still having fun. So grow some short hairs, get out of the chair, and go have some mindless fun yourself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would totally understand aliens conceding a game however. Spawing as a skulk with no upgrades against HA/JP's/Heavy Weapons leaves very little room for fun. Its just fustrating, for the team as a whole. A gorge managed to ninja a Hive? Yay for him, its still takes several minutes to grow, and by then the Heavy Train will have long finished off the main hive, most of your team will be dead in spawn-limbo, and all they have to do is march to that growing hive, and gun in down in less than 10 seconds. F4 is totally understandable in a situation like that.
Yes sir! Like the time me and my friends were chatting in the bast RR (1.04 (miss the good ol' days)) and then we joined late (myself and best friend marine team.. wonder whats happened to him..- oh uh *ahem* anyways) only to find the CC and comm chair destroyed (ns_hera!!!). We ralled the rest of our small, unworthy marine team into an elite task force, and marched into the hive, shooting everything with pinpoint accuracy, and we lost a lot of men, but finally slaughtered the hive. My god, that could have been made into a ten minute movie for SURE. It was the best game I'd ever played.
But yeah, no comback chance at all anymore, and in SC or WCIII I usually stay to chat with the player as hes destroying the base, I've made tons of friends that way (I wonder what happened to them..)
It's annoying as hell, the winning team has earned the victory, let them have it, sure, it takes a minute or two longer, but they deserve to have a proper win than a half-arsed surrender.
Besides, if the marine team were to recycle the base each time the game appears lost, the average round time would be about 3 minutes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you mean "let them have it"? As you said, that little F4 message doesn't state that you lost, yet you won. Be satisfied in the fact that you beat the other team squarely enough to make them F4, instead of being angry about it because they didn't let you destroy their base.
If this game had generally good sportsmanship on pubs, you'd see teams F4 almost every game where comebacks are never possible. This game time is wasted, and I don't see how one can have fun "mopping up" lower lifeforms. I generally consider it poor sportsmanship on the winning team when they whine about how they couldn't kill skulks 30 times with an HMG before they shot the hive, or about why couldn't the marines wait for the aliens to get 5 onos to break the base.
Forfeiting a game in SC is almost considered polite so the winning team doesn't have to stay in the game and kill every last building. Almost never is a CS scrim/match played to the full 30 rounds unless it is just to achieve experience. Checkmating in chess is even rarer in the professional level. I'm not sure why the NS community is still so immature as to beat the opposing team into a pulp, but I would take it as a breath of fresh air if this changed.
Remember NS's general audience. Adolescent Males. Rethink that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't give a damn whether you believe that playing to the very last possible moment in a completely lost game is "fun". I'm not arguing to persuade, here; I realise it's a matter of taste, and that can't be changed.
All I'm asking is that next time it happens on a pub, those who get stir crazy about abandoning ship when it's completely lost (and aliens can't get their act together) should just try looking at it from the other side before moaning <i>on and on</i> about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not gonna whine one way or the other about it. I don't play nearly at all on any servers that don't have policies against recycling bases and F4ing. So if you're doing it on a server that I am playing on, you can expect to be kicked, and if it happens again you can expect to be banned. You can expect me to warn you or report you, and that is pretty much it.
I follow the rules of the servers I play on because I chose to play on those servers due to the fact that I like thier rules, and if you don't play that way, don't expect anyone to want to keep you around.
There is no unwritten rule in NS that every game has to play to compleation, and I'm certainly not going to be spouting off about it in some random pub.
[EDIT]
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forfeiting a game in SC is almost considered polite so the winning team doesn't have to stay in the game and kill every last building. Almost never is a CS scrim/match played to the full 30 rounds unless it is just to achieve experience. Checkmating in chess is even rarer in the professional level. I'm not sure why the NS community is still so immature as to beat the opposing team into a pulp, but I would take it as a breath of fresh air if this changed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In SC Players play for wins. If I join a game against Armanimodel and he quits 2 minutes into the game when he probably still could have won, I save the replay and start bragging, I just stole a win. Because NS isn't an individual player per race game, most players still play to win, but they play primarily for kills (and to get better at the game). In NS you can still get alot of good practice by potshoting retreating skulks, or leapbiting the last fragement of a dieing marine team. There is no clear cut 'mopping up' stage in NS, because player VS player will always remain fairly balanced fight, and there really isn't a point where the enemy literally just stops fighting back and lets you walk over them.
In that case, wouldn't it be desireable to end the match and have the fighting stand on an even ground as soon as possible?
Wow I suck at quoting.
In that case, wouldn't it be desireable to end the match and have the fighting stand on an even ground as soon as possible?
Wow I suck at quoting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You get better practice on your twitch muscle skill against targets than you do against threats.
Perhaps, you get better at pretty much everything by actually playing against a threat.
And most other players don't enjoy being "targets" for your twitch shooting practice.
I compleatly support your desire to play the game you want to play it, just don't come onto the servers that I play on and tell me that we are wrong for playing the game our way, because the issues is not a right or wrong issue, it is an issue of opinion.
That's fine. I don't mind a person holding an opposite opinion. I do mind that person annoying me with it. By the end of the post, I was less addressing you in particular as I was those who b*tch about F4ing in a lost game.
That's fine. I don't mind a person holding an opposite opinion. I do mind that person annoying me with it. By the end of the post, I was less addressing you in particular as I was those who b*tch about F4ing in a lost game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
All you've been doing this entire thread is b*tching. If you weren't planning on accepting the other side, then why did you start the discussion? You just wanted to throw out there, "Oh yeah, btw, I think everyone should always f4 if the game's lost." That's great. Really. It's your own opinion, fine. But if you weren't going to discuss the pros and cons and/or at least try to understand the posistions of the people who disagree with you, you shouldn't have started this thread.
A couple of things:
I didn't start the thread.
There are no cons/pros to discuss. This is entirely a matter of taste. I understand why someone might find it fun to finish off the enemy after dilly-dallying about for half an hour, but that doesn't mean I find it fun (on either team).
I'm not saying that you should F4 every time you die. I'm just asking people to not start screaming like a ninny if people F4. If it's on a specificly "non-F4" server, fine, call an admin and leave it to them. Otherwise, keep your finger off the all-chat button and accept that by F4ing or recycling IPs some of us want to start a new game. I'm not here for your amusement.
1) alot of us have played RTS games and get anoyoyed with the enemy surrendering without the winning team having the joy of destroying the enemy base.
2) most of us have seen comebacks from what looks like a totally unwinnable situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that and its a curtious, and it can be fun, just to mess around
1 dumb onos knife kill your something makes up for the non fun part <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
fixed
Oh and Snidley, yeah I got you and K33l3m mixed up, sorry. That is why I should not post before 7 am...... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They
- just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's)
- do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever
- don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.
This is higly annoying indeed, perhaps there should be made a button with
"Vote Surrender"
And if the whole team surrenders, they lose AND the game ends.
- just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that would be a bannable offense on most servers.....I argue under the assumption that an admin is present
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, if they take way too long, the losing team should acquire enough res to mount an offensive again, so game on <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you would ask this if either they're spawncamping or they're not attacking, the same two conditions you already stated.
They
- just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's)
- do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever
- don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.
This is higly annoying indeed, perhaps there should be made a button with
"Vote Surrender"
And if the whole team surrenders, they lose AND the game ends. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of you dont realize this, but F4'ing IS essentially a vote for surrendering. When enough guys decide the game is not worth continuing and F4's, "they lose AND the game ends."
On the other hand, if only a few guys F4's, then the vote fails, and the game continues on. Generally, F4 guys come back in after a few minutes of jumping around in the RR.
They
- just camp the respawn points (hive/ip's)
- do not put ANY energy in ending the game whatsoever
- don't listen to the requests of the other (losing) team to end the current game.
This is higly annoying indeed, perhaps there should be made a button with
"Vote Surrender"
And if the whole team surrenders, they lose AND the game ends. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of you dont realize this, but F4'ing IS essentially a vote for surrendering. When enough guys decide the game is not worth continuing and F4's, "they lose AND the game ends."
On the other hand, if only a few guys F4's, then the vote fails, and the game continues on. Generally, F4 guys come back in after a few minutes of jumping around in the RR. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, because two or three people F4ing is quite fair to the rest of the team actually trying to conduct an enjoyable game. What a terrific voting system.