bunny hoping without +3 jump is really hard to learn, and took me a long time to get right. I will never able to BHop 100% perfect, because envitably I will miss time a jump, but at least I don't let a line of code do it for me. The idea of lettling aliens Bhop is cool. Its something that takes a lomg time to learn, even with a script.
Block scripts is great because it really brings it down to skill. I just wish the block scripts would'nt block weapons changing and simple things like that, because a lot of people use them. But blocking +3 is great for seprating the truly skilled from the unskilled.
*edit* seriously adding a auto Bhop feature to the game would ruin playing aliens.
NGE, bunny hopping without +3jump takes a lot more skill, and the fact that errors can be made, makes it even more of a skill. Anyone whos PC can't handel NS at a fast FPS shoulnt be playing.
<!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+Sep 7 2004, 08:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen @ Sep 7 2004, 08:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NGE, bunny hopping without +3jump takes a lot more skill, and the fact that errors can be made, makes it even more of a skill. Anyone whos PC can't handel NS at a fast FPS shoulnt be playing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're implying that having a good PC and net connection is a skill?
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+Sep 7 2004, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen @ Sep 7 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NGE, bunny hopping without +3jump takes a lot more skill, and the fact that errors can be made, makes it even more of a skill. Anyone whos PC can't handel NS at a fast FPS shoulnt be playing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> High framerate = skill ?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Soylant, that's silly, you are doing that in a LAN server (no lag) with a constant 100 fps. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you allways get >400 after the first jump(just glide and jump), keeping it up isn't hard, you get away with pretty poor timing if you just sway side to side enough, and bunnyhopping manually is easiest at ~50-60 FPS so FPS drops don't matter unless there's >20k e-polys or something. I quite often get passed the 1.7x barrier on TFC and HLDM without a jump script or mouse bind and that's highly noticable(slow down to 1x), I'm not using a jump script or mouse bind in those mods because I keep going over the limit without intending to everytime I take a corner. Those are hardly LAN servers, decent servers ping around 50.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The +3jumps script allows for error when you are in situations that cause stress on both the system and pipeline.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just silly, lag is pretty much the only relevant factor unless you're playing on 2k w_poly "fun" maps.
I'm MUCH better with a triple jump script, I'm not debating that, because then I can do the same thing in battle and could care less about slopes with a small incline(no clip bug at the top that acts as a stair which can't be climbed while in the air) rails and bumps.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> _special was removed from S&I
Furthermore a _special bhop script completely nerfs the game, it's something that should not be added.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sort of, they changed jumping to require you to repress the jump button on each new jump, but it behaves just as _special did.
You can do really crazy stunts in SI with the jumping system they have, going this way in NS won't remove the skill of bunnyhopping, it will move the skill to being able to gain speed quickly, being able to behave evasively, knowing when to use bunnyhopping for it to be effective, getting up stairs(at least the nice ones) while bunnyhopping, doing usefull stunts to get past obstacles etc. Your moving the skill from one aspect to another and giving the aliens a buff all at the same time.
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Sep 7 2004, 08:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Sep 7 2004, 08:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+Sep 7 2004, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen @ Sep 7 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NGE, bunny hopping without +3jump takes a lot more skill, and the fact that errors can be made, makes it even more of a skill. Anyone whos PC can't handel NS at a fast FPS shoulnt be playing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> High framerate = skill ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> laffos.
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2004
Let not, as moomin said, make this thread lock, eh? Deciding whether whatever is a skill or not is not the subject of this thread. Create a new one or, even better, contribute to the gazillion other threads on the subject.
Kudos to DavidSansome! Pretty diagrams = easy on the eyes.
P.S.
<!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NGE, bunny hopping without +3jump takes a lot more skill, and the fact that errors can be made, makes it even more of a skill. Anyone whos PC can't handel NS at a fast FPS shoulnt be playing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And for the people who say they can bunnyhop without it..what speeds do you get?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
400-500 easily and consistently on <i>flat ground</i> with just the spacebar, as long as no-one is attacking me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You must be playing on servers with sv_cheats on if you know your speed while in combat. <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
Furthermore a _special bhop script completely nerfs the game, it's something that should not be added. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> _special was removed from S&I but the regular jump command was replaced with something that basically gave the same effect as a _special jump script would. Thereby giving this "hax0r" script to everyone.
However, it is true that _special does have some drawbacks, such as being able to easily hop uphill as marine (anyone for getting between ventilation and furnace in 1/4 of the time?).
This being said I believe that some form of hop timing aid should be built into NS if they are going to block something like a 3 or 5 jump script without restricting the use of the mousewheel to jump. Forlorn's idea of the implementation of a Quake style of jumping gets my vote.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Sep 7 2004, 04:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Sep 7 2004, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You can do really crazy stunts in SI with the jumping system they have, going this way in NS won't remove the skill of bunnyhopping, it will move the skill to being able to gain speed quickly, being able to behave evasively, knowing when to use bunnyhopping for it to be effective, getting up stairs(at least the nice ones) while bunnyhopping, doing usefull stunts to get past obstacles etc. Your moving the skill from one aspect to another and giving the aliens a buff all at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True.
The devs cannot make any sort of auto jump a default, they have to provide separate commands for that and regular jump. Otherwise, lerks will not be able to fly, jetpacks will sputter, and you will need a separate key to swim up in water.
<!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Sep 7 2004, 12:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Sep 7 2004, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Wither+Sep 7 2004, 12:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Sep 7 2004, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Sep 7 2004, 06:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Sep 7 2004, 06:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remark: You can bhop using the mousewheel. The mousewheel acts just like the 3jump does, thus not losing speed when touching the ground. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Except if you gain any speed you'll have to keep scrolling your mouse wheel continuously, which takes so much effort away that for me, and many other players, it beats the purpose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I find that binding both mwheelup and mwheeldown to +jump allows you to scroll your finger down for one jump and leave it there for a short period and then scrolling back in time for the next jump.
All my bunnyhopping takes is one scroll a small time before I would press a 3jump script and I have had a consistent 510-520 bunnyhop for well over 6 months, and NS is the first FPS game I've ever played (besides Wolf3d...) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 2 mice : One I can BHop 500-560 (air) constant with mwheel, the other is 5 years old by now and the mousewheel has a ton of resistance. Its so bad I can even get slowdowns after trying to just hop after a leap. It also requires a certain speed of mwheel flicking, or it will only register one jump.
Mousewheel bhopping has nothing to do with skill, but is exclusively centered around having comftorable hardware. But not like it matters, its still plenty to pub with.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Sep 7 2004, 05:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Sep 7 2004, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Sep 7 2004, 12:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Sep 7 2004, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Wither+Sep 7 2004, 12:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Sep 7 2004, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Sep 7 2004, 06:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Sep 7 2004, 06:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remark: You can bhop using the mousewheel. The mousewheel acts just like the 3jump does, thus not losing speed when touching the ground. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Except if you gain any speed you'll have to keep scrolling your mouse wheel continuously, which takes so much effort away that for me, and many other players, it beats the purpose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I find that binding both mwheelup and mwheeldown to +jump allows you to scroll your finger down for one jump and leave it there for a short period and then scrolling back in time for the next jump.
All my bunnyhopping takes is one scroll a small time before I would press a 3jump script and I have had a consistent 510-520 bunnyhop for well over 6 months, and NS is the first FPS game I've ever played (besides Wolf3d...) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 2 mice : One I can BHop 500-560 (air) constant with mwheel, the other is 5 years old by now and the mousewheel has a ton of resistance. Its so bad I can even get slowdowns after trying to just hop after a leap. It also requires a certain speed of mwheel flicking, or it will only register one jump.
Mousewheel bhopping has nothing to do with skill, but is exclusively centered around having comftorable hardware. But not like it matters, its still plenty to pub with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps. I have an MX510, but it used to work exactly the same on my old Microsoft Optical Intellimouse.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, it is not possible to attain the maximum possible speed through manual jumping. You might be able to get up to a speed faster than the normal running speed, but you will slip up eventually and lose speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can get up to faster speed than normal running by just pressing strafe while jumping <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway I just joined a server and jumped around some time without script. I could easily get to the maximum speed but it was hard to keep this speed for more than a few jumps.
Furthermore a _special bhop script completely nerfs the game, it's something that should not be added. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> _special was removed from S&I but the regular jump command was replaced with something that basically gave the same effect as a _special jump script would. Thereby giving this "hax0r" script to everyone.
However, it is true that _special does have some drawbacks, such as being able to easily hop uphill as marine (anyone for getting between ventilation and furnace in 1/4 of the time?).
This being said I believe that some form of hop timing aid should be built into NS if they are going to block something like a 3 or 5 jump script without restricting the use of the mousewheel to jump. Forlorn's idea of the implementation of a Quake style of jumping gets my vote. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No really, the SI team took out all built in _special functions, go play the game again man, they replaced it with a +3jumps script. (Or something of the like, it functions basically the same.)
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No really, the SI team took out all built in _special functions, go play the game again man, they replaced it with a +3jumps script. (Or something of the like, it functions basically the same.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, SI is the only thing I've been playing for the last two weeks, that's not it at all, take your own suggestion. It functions as a special script except that it resets to off whenever you jump. You can press your jump button and keep it pressed while in the air, fall an arbitrary distance and it will still jump as soon as you land, but it will only jump once unless you press it again.
<!--QuoteBegin-rennex+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You must be playing on servers with sv_cheats on if you know your speed while in combat. Be nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am having an ethical crisis atm over this whole bjop/3jumps thingo.
Although script is not good imo the alternative that has been forced on everyone who want to try to be competative as skulk is u mush have a mwheel and it must be bound to jump if u want to bhop. I dont think this is a fiar solution either...
I have heard things like "but I have weapon prev/next in mwheel and i like it" and "I have alwaysed just used space_bar as jump" etc. Seems a bit unfair to force ppl down the mwheel path.
A "special jump" as discussed in this thread mite be a good solution. At the end of the day Bhop days are numbered since i highly doubt that any new gen 3D engine with a 1/2 good physics engine will allow such physics exploits
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am having an ethical crisis atm over this whole bjop/3jumps thingo.
Although script is not good imo the alternative that has been forced on everyone who want to try to be competative as skulk is u mush have a mwheel and it must be bound to jump if u want to bhop. I dont think this is a fiar solution either...
I have heard things like "but I have weapon prev/next in mwheel and i like it" and "I have alwaysed just used space_bar as jump" etc. Seems a bit unfair to force ppl down the mwheel path.
A "special jump" as discussed in this thread mite be a good solution. At the end of the day Bhop days are numbered since i highly doubt that any new gen 3D engine with a 1/2 good physics engine will allow such physics exploits<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's an important feature they will code it in. e.g. I can't imagine VALVe removing gliding, bunnyhopping or concing from the TFC:S port.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Sep 7 2004, 05:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Sep 7 2004, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No really, the SI team took out all built in _special functions, go play the game again man, they replaced it with a +3jumps script. (Or something of the like, it functions basically the same.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, SI is the only thing I've been playing for the last two weeks, that's not it at all, take your own suggestion. It functions as a special script except that it resets to off whenever you jump. You can press your jump button and keep it pressed while in the air, fall an arbitrary distance and it will still jump as soon as you land, but it will only jump once unless you press it again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's just like the Quake jumping system and it would be awesome if they would do this in NS.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Sep 7 2004, 08:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Sep 7 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-rennex+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You must be playing on servers with sv_cheats on if you know your speed while in combat. Be nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dyslexic? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Edited by a mod? I'd made another comment about your intelligence but it'll probably get editted again.
<!--QuoteBegin-rennex+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Edited by a mod? I'd made another comment about your intelligence but it'll probably get editted again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[edit]No it wasn't edited by a mod or there would be a last edited by message with the mods name like the one in your post[/edit]. If you're unable to read and comprehend, I specifically said that I wouldn't get those speeds in combat or less than nice terrain. I mean it's right there in the freaking quote you made.
Also:
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent Green+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent Green)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, you allways get >400 after the first jump(just glide and jump), keeping it up isn't hard, you get away with pretty poor timing if you just sway side to side enough, and bunnyhopping manually is easiest at ~50-60 FPS so FPS drops don't matter unless there's >20k e-polys or something. I quite often get passed the 1.7x barrier on TFC and HLDM without a jump script or mouse bind and that's highly noticable(slow down to 1x)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And to answer your malformed question, yes, I have played MP with a speedometer plenty of times in MODs besides NS, I've used sparky utils(non-cheat client-side hook that once was rather popular in TFC and SI), yes I have played NS 1.04 and earlier and bunnyhopped, back then it was easiest NOT to use a triple jump script or mouse bind because if reached over 1.7x you where slowed down when jumping again, which is very noticable and often happened even with just the space bar and against real people on non-lan servers as long as it was an appropiate place to bhop and no one attacking me.
<insert comments about your reading comprehension and willingness to do anything to justify scripts instead of solving the problem that makes scripts usefull for anything in the first place>
I bhop over 400 without a 3jump script or mousewheel. 99.9% of the time lag doesn't effect how your character interacts with the map, only how other characters in objects interact with your character. I've been playing for a while, and I can hit the jump pattern in my sleep. once you learn it, it isn't hard to imaculately hit within a fractional time that is only slightly less acurate than any mouse wheel or script. That being said, I won't feign perfection either, I'm not exactly a master at air control, and I occationally make costly errors like the one in the diagram, but 90% of the time I can hold a good Bhop quite accurately.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Sep 8 2004, 01:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 8 2004, 01:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I bhop over 400 without a 3jump script or mousewheel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I walk over 400 (Just look down below the horizon and hit forward, or align the 2 uppermost teeth with the horizon and hold +movedown +forward), and get a first jump at about 480-540 depending on my FPS and mood. 400 doesn't even warrant bunnyhopping - unless you're breaking 460-480 on a consistent basis, you might as well glidejump aside from a bit of air control.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 99.9% of the time lag doesn't effect how your character interacts with the map, only how other characters in objects interact with your character.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your FPS drastically affects everything though - your perception, your speed of input and the reaction of your object to air control movements. And the height of your jump, just to make it more fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've been playing for a while, and I can hit the jump pattern in my sleep. once you learn it, it isn't hard to imaculately hit within a fractional time that is only slightly less acurate than any mouse wheel or script. That being said, I won't feign perfection either, I'm not exactly a master at air control, and I occationally make costly errors like the one in the diagram, but 90% of the time I can hold a good Bhop quite accurately.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats great for you. Natural-Selection is however not a fanservice to a select few, nor do alot of people strive to become like you. Alot of voices here on the forums would like to play a game where tedious jumptiming is only a minor factor. They don't care how great you are, or think you are.
I hate it when games take out something fun, just to satisfy a few peoples view of "OMG its scripts and cheats".
To that end I agree with put a 3jump script in by default. It could be in the menu options, a tickbox for "Send 3 jumps when jumping as skulk" or something.
I think its only needed with the skulk, every other life form is simple to bunnyhop well with the mousewheel. Skulks are a lot harder as you move so fast and sometimes have to hop very quickly (up ramps for example). Fades/onos etc are quite slow when hopping so its easy to time.
Btw, the mousewheel for me is hard to keep constantly turning, so I just time it very well, 1 click each hop. Sure, when you first start its hard, but after a few hours of hopping you soon get the timing right.
Comments
Block scripts is great because it really brings it down to skill. I just wish the block scripts would'nt block weapons changing and simple things like that, because a lot of people use them. But blocking +3 is great for seprating the truly skilled from the unskilled.
*edit* seriously adding a auto Bhop feature to the game would ruin playing aliens.
The +3jumps script allows for error when you are in situations that cause stress on both the system and pipeline.
You're implying that having a good PC and net connection is a skill?
High framerate = skill ?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you allways get >400 after the first jump(just glide and jump), keeping it up isn't hard, you get away with pretty poor timing if you just sway side to side enough, and bunnyhopping manually is easiest at ~50-60 FPS so FPS drops don't matter unless there's >20k e-polys or something. I quite often get passed the 1.7x barrier on TFC and HLDM without a jump script or mouse bind and that's highly noticable(slow down to 1x), I'm not using a jump script or mouse bind in those mods because I keep going over the limit without intending to everytime I take a corner. Those are hardly LAN servers, decent servers ping around 50.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The +3jumps script allows for error when you are in situations that cause stress on both the system and pipeline.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just silly, lag is pretty much the only relevant factor unless you're playing on 2k w_poly "fun" maps.
I'm MUCH better with a triple jump script, I'm not debating that, because then I can do the same thing in battle and could care less about slopes with a small incline(no clip bug at the top that acts as a stair which can't be climbed while in the air) rails and bumps.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> _special was removed from S&I
Furthermore a _special bhop script completely nerfs the game, it's something that should not be added.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sort of, they changed jumping to require you to repress the jump button on each new jump, but it behaves just as _special did.
You can do really crazy stunts in SI with the jumping system they have, going this way in NS won't remove the skill of bunnyhopping, it will move the skill to being able to gain speed quickly, being able to behave evasively, knowing when to use bunnyhopping for it to be effective, getting up stairs(at least the nice ones) while bunnyhopping, doing usefull stunts to get past obstacles etc. Your moving the skill from one aspect to another and giving the aliens a buff all at the same time.
High framerate = skill ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
laffos.
P.S.
<!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NGE, bunny hopping without +3jump takes a lot more skill, and the fact that errors can be made, makes it even more of a skill. Anyone whos PC can't handel NS at a fast FPS shoulnt be playing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^^ Nub.
And for the people who say they can bunnyhop without it..what speeds do you get?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
400-500 easily and consistently on <i>flat ground</i> with just the spacebar, as long as no-one is attacking me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must be playing on servers with sv_cheats on if you know your speed while in combat. <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
Furthermore a _special bhop script completely nerfs the game, it's something that should not be added. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
_special was removed from S&I but the regular jump command was replaced with something that basically gave the same effect as a _special jump script would. Thereby giving this "hax0r" script to everyone.
However, it is true that _special does have some drawbacks, such as being able to easily hop uphill as marine (anyone for getting between ventilation and furnace in 1/4 of the time?).
This being said I believe that some form of hop timing aid should be built into NS if they are going to block something like a 3 or 5 jump script without restricting the use of the mousewheel to jump. Forlorn's idea of the implementation of a Quake style of jumping gets my vote.
Can we please implement quake-style jumping already? Come on...
True.
The devs cannot make any sort of auto jump a default, they have to provide separate commands for that and regular jump. Otherwise, lerks will not be able to fly, jetpacks will sputter, and you will need a separate key to swim up in water.
Thanx for suggesting that Bob the Janitor.
-Aes-
Except if you gain any speed you'll have to keep scrolling your mouse wheel continuously, which takes so much effort away that for me, and many other players, it beats the purpose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find that binding both mwheelup and mwheeldown to +jump allows you to scroll your finger down for one jump and leave it there for a short period and then scrolling back in time for the next jump.
All my bunnyhopping takes is one scroll a small time before I would press a 3jump script and I have had a consistent 510-520 bunnyhop for well over 6 months, and NS is the first FPS game I've ever played (besides Wolf3d...) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 mice :
One I can BHop 500-560 (air) constant with mwheel, the other is 5 years old by now and the mousewheel has a ton of resistance. Its so bad I can even get slowdowns after trying to just hop after a leap. It also requires a certain speed of mwheel flicking, or it will only register one jump.
Mousewheel bhopping has nothing to do with skill, but is exclusively centered around having comftorable hardware. But not like it matters, its still plenty to pub with.
Except if you gain any speed you'll have to keep scrolling your mouse wheel continuously, which takes so much effort away that for me, and many other players, it beats the purpose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find that binding both mwheelup and mwheeldown to +jump allows you to scroll your finger down for one jump and leave it there for a short period and then scrolling back in time for the next jump.
All my bunnyhopping takes is one scroll a small time before I would press a 3jump script and I have had a consistent 510-520 bunnyhop for well over 6 months, and NS is the first FPS game I've ever played (besides Wolf3d...) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 mice :
One I can BHop 500-560 (air) constant with mwheel, the other is 5 years old by now and the mousewheel has a ton of resistance. Its so bad I can even get slowdowns after trying to just hop after a leap. It also requires a certain speed of mwheel flicking, or it will only register one jump.
Mousewheel bhopping has nothing to do with skill, but is exclusively centered around having comftorable hardware. But not like it matters, its still plenty to pub with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps. I have an MX510, but it used to work exactly the same on my old Microsoft Optical Intellimouse.
You can get up to faster speed than normal running by just pressing strafe while jumping <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway I just joined a server and jumped around some time without script. I could easily get to the maximum speed but it was hard to keep this speed for more than a few jumps.
Furthermore a _special bhop script completely nerfs the game, it's something that should not be added. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
_special was removed from S&I but the regular jump command was replaced with something that basically gave the same effect as a _special jump script would. Thereby giving this "hax0r" script to everyone.
However, it is true that _special does have some drawbacks, such as being able to easily hop uphill as marine (anyone for getting between ventilation and furnace in 1/4 of the time?).
This being said I believe that some form of hop timing aid should be built into NS if they are going to block something like a 3 or 5 jump script without restricting the use of the mousewheel to jump. Forlorn's idea of the implementation of a Quake style of jumping gets my vote. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No really, the SI team took out all built in _special functions, go play the game again man, they replaced it with a +3jumps script. (Or something of the like, it functions basically the same.)
No, SI is the only thing I've been playing for the last two weeks, that's not it at all, take your own suggestion. It functions as a special script except that it resets to off whenever you jump. You can press your jump button and keep it pressed while in the air, fall an arbitrary distance and it will still jump as soon as you land, but it will only jump once unless you press it again.
<!--QuoteBegin-rennex+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You must be playing on servers with sv_cheats on if you know your speed while in combat. Be nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dyslexic?
Although script is not good imo the alternative that has been forced on everyone who want to try to be competative as skulk is u mush have a mwheel and it must be bound to jump if u want to bhop. I dont think this is a fiar solution either...
I have heard things like "but I have weapon prev/next in mwheel and i like it" and "I have alwaysed just used space_bar as jump" etc. Seems a bit unfair to force ppl down the mwheel path.
A "special jump" as discussed in this thread mite be a good solution. At the end of the day Bhop days are numbered since i highly doubt that any new gen 3D engine with a 1/2 good physics engine will allow such physics exploits
Although script is not good imo the alternative that has been forced on everyone who want to try to be competative as skulk is u mush have a mwheel and it must be bound to jump if u want to bhop. I dont think this is a fiar solution either...
I have heard things like "but I have weapon prev/next in mwheel and i like it" and "I have alwaysed just used space_bar as jump" etc. Seems a bit unfair to force ppl down the mwheel path.
A "special jump" as discussed in this thread mite be a good solution. At the end of the day Bhop days are numbered since i highly doubt that any new gen 3D engine with a 1/2 good physics engine will allow such physics exploits<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's an important feature they will code it in. e.g. I can't imagine VALVe removing gliding, bunnyhopping or concing from the TFC:S port.
No, SI is the only thing I've been playing for the last two weeks, that's not it at all, take your own suggestion. It functions as a special script except that it resets to off whenever you jump. You can press your jump button and keep it pressed while in the air, fall an arbitrary distance and it will still jump as soon as you land, but it will only jump once unless you press it again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's just like the Quake jumping system and it would be awesome if they would do this in NS.
Dyslexic? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Edited by a mod? I'd made another comment about your intelligence but it'll probably get editted again.
[edit]No it wasn't edited by a mod or there would be a last edited by message with the mods name like the one in your post[/edit]. If you're unable to read and comprehend, I specifically said that I wouldn't get those speeds in combat or less than nice terrain. I mean it's right there in the freaking quote you made.
Also:
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent Green+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent Green)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, you allways get >400 after the first jump(just glide and jump), keeping it up isn't hard, you get away with pretty poor timing if you just sway side to side enough, and bunnyhopping manually is easiest at ~50-60 FPS so FPS drops don't matter unless there's >20k e-polys or something. I quite often get passed the 1.7x barrier on TFC and HLDM without a jump script or mouse bind and that's highly noticable(slow down to 1x)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And to answer your malformed question, yes, I have played MP with a speedometer plenty of times in MODs besides NS, I've used sparky utils(non-cheat client-side hook that once was rather popular in TFC and SI), yes I have played NS 1.04 and earlier and bunnyhopped, back then it was easiest NOT to use a triple jump script or mouse bind because if reached over 1.7x you where slowed down when jumping again, which is very noticable and often happened even with just the space bar and against real people on non-lan servers as long as it was an appropiate place to bhop and no one attacking me.
<insert comments about your reading comprehension and willingness to do anything to justify scripts instead of solving the problem that makes scripts usefull for anything in the first place>
I walk over 400 (Just look down below the horizon and hit forward, or align the 2 uppermost teeth with the horizon and hold +movedown +forward), and get a first jump at about 480-540 depending on my FPS and mood. 400 doesn't even warrant bunnyhopping - unless you're breaking 460-480 on a consistent basis, you might as well glidejump aside from a bit of air control.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 99.9% of the time lag doesn't effect how your character interacts with the map, only how other characters in objects interact with your character.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your FPS drastically affects everything though - your perception, your speed of input and the reaction of your object to air control movements. And the height of your jump, just to make it more fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've been playing for a while, and I can hit the jump pattern in my sleep. once you learn it, it isn't hard to imaculately hit within a fractional time that is only slightly less acurate than any mouse wheel or script. That being said, I won't feign perfection either, I'm not exactly a master at air control, and I occationally make costly errors like the one in the diagram, but 90% of the time I can hold a good Bhop quite accurately.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats great for you. Natural-Selection is however not a fanservice to a select few, nor do alot of people strive to become like you. Alot of voices here on the forums would like to play a game where tedious jumptiming is only a minor factor. They don't care how great you are, or think you are.
Being able to bunnyhop makes NS more fun.
I hate it when games take out something fun, just to satisfy a few peoples view of "OMG its scripts and cheats".
To that end I agree with put a 3jump script in by default. It could be in the menu options, a tickbox for "Send 3 jumps when jumping as skulk" or something.
I think its only needed with the skulk, every other life form is simple to bunnyhop well with the mousewheel. Skulks are a lot harder as you move so fast and sometimes have to hop very quickly (up ramps for example). Fades/onos etc are quite slow when hopping so its easy to time.
Btw, the mousewheel for me is hard to keep constantly turning, so I just time it very well, 1 click each hop. Sure, when you first start its hard, but after a few hours of hopping you soon get the timing right.