Very Unfair Commander Tactic
Dead
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7975Members
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7975Members
Lately I played on a 20player server with a team of Aliens that I know are generally very good and smart gamers.
W played 2 maps and creamed the Marines quickly.
I said I'll go commander and take control of the noob team and beat those guys.
"hahah yeah sure"
I beat them in 20minutes twice.
why?
Build 2 spawns sentry base ammo dump comm station and sentrys
when all that is up, i scanned the hives and sent 6 of my 10 marines to the Hive. They Cleaned up the 2 slulks there and I got a resource up.
Then I built a Command Centre there as well,
Now this is where it gets lame,
I then built 2 spawn points and recycled the one spawn. I move to the Hive and used that command centre. Now we just built up that base, by now the aliens had both hives up and nearlly all resource points, our team was under attack from fades. Using the one resource point at the hive i *slowly* built up the base and research making it so the aliens didnt have a chance to get through.
Then they where outside build offences around us, seiges went up, my team staying in the base, then heavy armour came then grenades and HMG's.
Basically I just had the hive, built up the team in a massively defended base (the aliens really knew how attack) and we blew the hell out of everything on our way to second hive with all 9 marines outfitted to the max.
They had no chance, the aliens only had fades and level 2 abilities and level 3 attack weapons.
We have full level everything.
I've played about 3 more games using this tactic, and apart from stupid alien rushes winning first off, i've never lost.
W played 2 maps and creamed the Marines quickly.
I said I'll go commander and take control of the noob team and beat those guys.
"hahah yeah sure"
I beat them in 20minutes twice.
why?
Build 2 spawns sentry base ammo dump comm station and sentrys
when all that is up, i scanned the hives and sent 6 of my 10 marines to the Hive. They Cleaned up the 2 slulks there and I got a resource up.
Then I built a Command Centre there as well,
Now this is where it gets lame,
I then built 2 spawn points and recycled the one spawn. I move to the Hive and used that command centre. Now we just built up that base, by now the aliens had both hives up and nearlly all resource points, our team was under attack from fades. Using the one resource point at the hive i *slowly* built up the base and research making it so the aliens didnt have a chance to get through.
Then they where outside build offences around us, seiges went up, my team staying in the base, then heavy armour came then grenades and HMG's.
Basically I just had the hive, built up the team in a massively defended base (the aliens really knew how attack) and we blew the hell out of everything on our way to second hive with all 9 marines outfitted to the max.
They had no chance, the aliens only had fades and level 2 abilities and level 3 attack weapons.
We have full level everything.
I've played about 3 more games using this tactic, and apart from stupid alien rushes winning first off, i've never lost.
Comments
I was more or less carrying the alien team (towards the end they did ok under my leadership and instructions) and we pushed the marines back to their main base on 2 hives (there was minor def at the 3rd hive and there was a gorge saving to take it) . We CRUSHED the main base, but meanwhile the 3rd hive got spanked by one ha/hmg marine and they setup FULL BASE there befor we finished the last of their main. Soon they had full tech back and were massivly spamming grens/na off ONE resourse node. We had them locked in but there was no way we could get in. The only two entrys were a ladder (obviously pure suicide especially vs grens) and a big long hallway, the perfect shooting gallery for gunning down aliens. Acid rocket is easy to dodge at long range.
My point though is we got hammer by aliens all as fades etc using everything.
And we won.
Not just made it hard, but push them back and captured resources points along way.
Once you get jetpacking heavy armoured Grenaders and HMGer's with full tech 400 resources points behind them, you can crush and turn any alien force.
I was a good commander
I had 15 odd sentries a 3 seige guns.
I also had my team rush to the Hive to setup, I didn't waste anything on resources points etc.
I've seen bases that rushing Ono's and xenociding aliens couldnt bring down for more then 45minutes
In one game recently on ns_eclipse, I was on the aliens side. We lost our only hive early in the game but managed to come back with two hives. Although the marines began to get nade launchers and HA, they couldn't get through our defenses. We would evolve into fades and fire away with acid and eventually I set up a mini base with at least 4-6 defensive towers. This kept all my offensive towers going under some very heavy fire.
Needless to say, we won the match when I'm sure we all expected to lose.
We didnt have the spawn base.
Our marines spawn at the hive.
THe command centre was at the hive.
I am a good/decent commander.
The alien side was a team of Ex-clan mates they knew each other
They didnt have a chance of touching the 3rd Hive. As they couldnt get onos, had no xenocide and no third level abilities (full cloak etc)
They don't need 3 hives for full cloak...have you ever played aliens?
though the lag part is the worst i think... and maybe it's just on my end.. i've also played marines where nade spamming didn't work as good as i thought, and it seemed to take forever to explode, while as an alien it seems to explode almost instantly... anyone ever get the "i ran 50 miles from the nade at 200 miles an hour and still died" effect?
a group of fades with lvl3 carapace can easily destroy each and every base by hurling suicide attacks against the turret factories, even more so when they have Umbra support
problem is, most fades lack the courage to just run into the base and cause havoc, die and repeat
if all you have is one resource node, there is no chance to win this war of attrition
Cloak 2 = Faint Outline
Cloak 3 = completely Transparent
Its in the manual. [edit] (I forgot that its three sensory towers needed and not actually 3 hives, sorry my mistake <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
9marines + comm
6 marines constantly spamming Grenades while 2 on HMG's all with full armour while last is building, is how I pushed forward.
I am usually an alien, with them we had setup 5 Defence tower stations for massive assualt, I didn't ask them if they had that but I assume thats what we pushed through.
I've never seen a 12 player server? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (22player servers are common)
[edit] When they attacked the base they ran into 15 odd turrents 9 marines and large amounts of mines.
Aliens could win but they need to catch onto something like this *very* quick
Also I think the best solution to alot of problems is needing 1 sentry base for every 4/5 turrents. that would fix ALOT of problems
Basically the marines walked forward with permant 4 gren explosions around them. A fade doesnt have a chance to run and redemption almost doesnt work quick enough alot. Not enough time to even do a blind out of battle, they couldnt attack, they couldnt do umbra.
Also once they did all rush as fades/(i forget the flying ones name) and they all died which let my team press right upto second hive and setup.
I think a good thing to fix this also would be a few alien only enties into all hives. from a roof etc, that a jetpack cant reach?
The aliens attacked us with excellent and very structured tactics.
They lost too noob marines with a very quick and decend commander.
The alien team had 8 people that had being playing clan games as a very top level clan for 2 years together (mostly cs), they all have mics. They just couldnt get close enough.
Personally now I think it was just the map, and the hive position we capture (the one with the nice hallways and blue lighting wall/room)
6 marines making constant explosions by timing fire with grens and have HMG backup with unlimited ammo from commander is devastating, can you beat it without say an onos charge?
(dont forget im talking about spamming ONTOP of the marines and down the passage, so 5 blinking fades up to point blank suddenly blow up)
As Flay put it in his strategy post, if you do this, capture a few resource towers along the way, but leave them undefended so you don't waste points.
One of my recent games had a good commander who used this tactic, but the aliens were organized and hit a few of us along the way. Then by time we got the base settled, they had fades with level 3 adrenaline and were acid rocketing our upgradeless butts into oblivion. Sure we had turrets, but that didn't last long at all.
There aren't that many people competent enough to play the Commander position well.
It's really all about the Commander, and his marines following orders.
The aliens seem to almost always stomp the marines if they have a newbie Commander or an alright but slow moving Commander.
This game is still only what, 2-3 weeks old? Once the majority of the starting out NS players have gotten the hang of things and begin developing good tactics, we can legitimately debate these types of things.
And even if you can keep the marines from attacking the RT, the first turret with a line of sight to it will open fire on it, warning the aliens.
This assumes two things: the builders were smart enough to run to the hives, evolve to gorge and build there rather than some random corridor resource node. And that the aliens will move in fast enough with enough strength to make a difference. Both things aren't likely, currently, on the pubs, sigh.
Splitting your focus while under constant attack by competant skulks sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Lame marine tactic? Nope, _smart, and the aliens that let you do this deserve to lose. Next game, please.
This is not an unfair commander tactic. It is priority one for the aliens to secure both hive locations immediately. That's why it's on Hive Sight - it's important.
If the aliens allow the marines to set up a resource tower/turret/forward base/main base in a hive location, then they have made a major tactical error, and will obviously have a hard time recovering.
oh and to see lev 3 cloaked, use ur flashlight!
as mariens i my team tries to secure and defend as many resources as possible (forget the armoury) just build the resources. the resources start coming in at a fast rate AND THEN we upgrade for the assualt (BOOM) HA/HMG +Welding support. aliens are dead
as aliens i suggest to rush the marine base as fast as possible. there are no resources to do much with and dying does not penalize your resources so just go and kill some time as well as marines. this rushing will also keep the mariens from spreading in the begining and will keep them on thier toes. and on some maps (tanith...) the alien rushing can destroy the mariens before the game is even underway.
So what's wrong with marines having a leg up once in a while?
Honestly I don't see any unbalancing issues here, I play as both aliens and marines and have never had an easier time doing this instead of this or that in the place of this
It all depends on who you're fighting <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
A common Alien strategy is to rush the Marine Spawn until they have turrets up and then hover in packs outside their spawn to restrict movement and expansion.
Aliens communicate and work as a team as well, 2 Packs of 4 Skulks can easily become a large Pack of 8 Skulks. I have never seen a Marine Group with LA/LMG last very long against a concentrated attack from 8 Skulks (especially if they have Carapace).
A wise Alien team (maybe it's just luck but I've played on many wise alien teams) would NEVER alllow a Marine Group outside of the turret reinforced spawn (At 6 Marines that is a significant Assault Group) to go unharassed for long. A good Alien team forces the Marines to fight for every step, every corridor, every room, every node, and every Hive.
On the Alien teams I've played on Recon and Intelligence is very important for the Skulk Packs patroling outside the Marine Spawn, if there were reports of a 6 Marine Group every available Skulk will be on them in no time flat.
A Marine Group that big usually means you are making a push for either a Nozzle or a Hive. If you are successful at making it all the way to a Hive and reinforce it chances are nothing is wrong with your strategy, something is wrong with the Aliens.
PS: 2nd Hive Evolution is enough to take out even the strongest Marine Base. The Fade+Umbra+Healing Spray combination can be very effective if the Marine Team isn't working together very well.
A past thread accused the Umbra+Fade combo of being too strong, I disagree. I'm not gonna tell you the counter (Lerks are one of my Favorite Aliens) but if you work together you can make short work of the group, you do need a high degree of coordination but that's suppose to be all in a days work.
You'll find less Alien "Ownage" Strategies once the Marines get ther act together. I've played on wise Marine Teams that made the Marines seem unbeatable too, it's all about teamwork and communication.
Only thing that made me say "bleh" right at the beginning of the thread was when this kid said he had 15 turrets in main base. This is the type who even if its the end of the game, aliens have control of every hive, and every other node in the map except the one that starts in marine's base, they'll still just put a giant forest of sentries in base that no one can get through.
lol, the same garbage happened to me the other night on hera. The Pu$$y **obscenity** marines just camped in their base with a million turrets indefinitely, until I noticed that they only had the one CC above in the elevator shaft. As a skulk i flew up there when they were distracted by the other aliens, and slowly munched away on the command center without the commander even knowing what was going on, suddenly he was auto-ejected, and we just whittled away at their turret mess indefinitely until like a whole hour later they were done for.
My point is, WHY OH WHY does it take so damned long to destroy a group of turtling marines in their base when its so obvious they've lost.
Heh, I think that for both races, the initial resource tower you're given has a very limited number of resource points in it, meaning that it'll run out within the first half an hour of the game. And it should be made so that if marines don't have any more stocks of resource points, they stop respawning <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thus, GG marines, give it up already and stop wasting our time.
they builded an defense room forest around the corner of the marine base. (the defense forest has to be covered by an other defense forest for the siege cannons)
they storm in with fades (carpace+celerity) for the bashing and lerks (carpace+adreline) for the umbra
if the umbra has worked out the aliens return back to the defense room: getting healed in a few seconds. and attacking again.
the marine base will fall in just +- 3 minutes.
probably without an single fade killed.
this taktic is the most powerfull move the aliens can make. use this @ threre main base and wil end in just a few minutes