I remember a fellow student bragging about how much smarter he was than me because he had a higher than average IQ. He was so busy talking to me that he walked into a door.
Should intelligence quotient tests be used to measure one's mental ability?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I.Q. tests only measure how well you do I.Q. tests - nothing more.
For example: You can still score 160+ on I.Q. tests, be regarded as a genius, have a PhD, etc etc - but that doesn't make you immune to trickery or frauds such as <a href='http://www.skepdic.com/geller.html' target='_blank'>Uri Geller</a>.
Well let this be proof that you can't summarize someone's intelligence into a number. If that were true, then you're basically saying that anyone with a higher number than someone else means that person is smarter in everyway than the other person. To take this ad absurdum, I would go so far as to say this means that person could answer every question that the person with the lesser IQ could answer and a little more.
Of course this isn't true. When you compare numbers, either it is less than, equal to, or greater than. There is no gray area, so by comparing two IQ numbers, you are eliminating the gray area. IQ is far from accurate, and there is plenty we don't know about the brain. Thus IQ is fundamentally flawed.
I've heard about better IQ tests out there though that test a wide range of "intelligences." Granted they are still numbers, but they test things like physical intelligence and mathematical intelligence i.e. So that friend of yours that walked into the door might score great in mathematical intelligence, but not so terrific in physical intelligence.
The day you figure out a way to describe intelligence using numbers is the day you can build a computer which can simulate that intelligence. (think about that)
My answer is: just look at the questions. The IQ test questions only test a small number of cognitive tasks. Pattern recognition and spatial manipulation are the main ones. Does this constitute intelligence? DEFINITELY NOT. I think if we had really advanced scientific theories about intelligence, we still would not be able to use a single, solitary number to describe intelligence. In fact, I think we would abhor it, because we would know very well the complexity of human intelligence denies such evaluations. I scored really high on the IQ test I took, and I'm smart, but so many people are so much better than me at a huge number of cognitive abilities, and I know they would not score so well on the IQ test.
I've taken an IQ test before, got somewhere around 150 (it was a LONG time ago), and I'm not an internationally recognized genius (yet). While there are examples of humans who are clearly superior in terms of intellectual capacity, i.e. <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistic_savant' target='_blank'>Autistic Savants</a>), the IQ test is an outdated measurement of... well... the things on an IQ test. The IQ test today is nothing more than a statistics table based on the works of Binet, who developed a method of testing the "mental age" of children.
Personally, I think the IQ test is more applicable to children in terms of intellectual potential (a 4 year old with the mental capacity of a 6 year old is really amazing), but nothing more than a test of common knowledge and specific cognitive skills which rarely prove to be an actual measure potential intelligence in adults.
P.S. Funny, we were just studying IQ in psych class today =O.
I guess "That Annoying kid" and Cam0.o are "smarter" than Einstein, Newton, Descartes, and Goethe...Hmmm... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Internet tests don't count. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Solve the universe now daum u. I command thee! Give me protoss technology!!!
EDIT: I think my IQ is average, like 100. I am so terrible at those sort of things.
Besides that, you all have basically answered my question. Well, I was really just looking for opinions. But you're right, we shouldn't base intelligence on an arbitrary number. And what use is intelligence or knowledge if you don't have the wisdom to apply and use it in a beneficial way. Otherwise, it's talent wasted.
<!--QuoteBegin-kida+Sep 29 2004, 11:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Sep 29 2004, 11:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess "That Annoying kid" and Cam0.o are "smarter" than Einstein, Newton, Descartes, Goethe...Hmmm... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm no history expert, but I'm pretty sure that Newton, Descartes, and Goethe never had their IQ mesured since the test didn't exist in their lifetimes.
Einstein never had his IQ tested, but it is estimated to be between 160 and 200. Not bad for a guy who failed algebra...
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Sep 30 2004, 12:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Sep 30 2004, 12:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kida+Sep 29 2004, 11:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Sep 29 2004, 11:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess "That Annoying kid" and Cam0.o are "smarter" than Einstein, Newton, Descartes, Goethe...Hmmm... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm no history expert, but I'm pretty sure that Newton, Descartes, and Goethe never had their IQ mesured since the test didn't exist in their lifetimes.
Einstein never had his IQ tested, but it is estimated to be between 160 and 200. Not bad for a guy who failed algebra... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually it was tested. They thought he was mentally retarded when they did the test given his math abilities, and sure enough, he failed it. Got a 60.
This was before the more famous part of his life began.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 30 2004, 02:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 30 2004, 02:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I learned to read at age 2
Most kids don't untill they are 6
Does that make me a super genious or waht guys?! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *pats Forlorn on the head and gives him a cookie*
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Sep 30 2004, 08:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Sep 30 2004, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Sep 30 2004, 12:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Sep 30 2004, 12:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kida+Sep 29 2004, 11:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Sep 29 2004, 11:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess "That Annoying kid" and Cam0.o are "smarter" than Einstein, Newton, Descartes, Goethe...Hmmm... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm no history expert, but I'm pretty sure that Newton, Descartes, and Goethe never had their IQ mesured since the test didn't exist in their lifetimes.
Einstein never had his IQ tested, but it is estimated to be between 160 and 200. Not bad for a guy who failed algebra... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually it was tested. They thought he was mentally retarded when they did the test given his math abilities, and sure enough, he failed it. Got a 60.
This was before the more famous part of his life began. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? The limited amount of research I did turned up nothing on Einstein having ever taken an IQ test. Do you have a link?
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-kida+Sep 29 2004, 08:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Sep 29 2004, 08:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess "That Annoying kid" and Cam0.o are "smarter" than Einstein, Newton, Descartes, and Goethe...Hmmm... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Internet tests don't count. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It wasn't an internet test <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't eff around with that madness, it was administered by a clinical psychologist who was loaned to the school district, but like camo this was a long while ago.
<!--QuoteBegin-camO.o+Oct 1 2004, 12:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (camO.o @ Oct 1 2004, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not to mention that it's culturally biased towards whites (non-whites are 6x more likely to recieve a mentally retarded rating).
However, it is a fairly good judgement of how well one might do in life. It is NOT a good judgement for special education programs etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Truth if ever told, however, there was an experiment with Aboriginal children that was geared more towards their culture. So, instead of having to rotate a cube 90 degrees or some such, they used natural objects such as a feather, or a rock.
When they compared test results against the "Normal" IQ tests, it was found that Aborignal children did average-well on the "Natural" test and poorly on the "Normal" and vice versa for the white children.
I'd say that your culture has a large impact on how well you do on IQ tests, as it is it's not a perfect unit of measure for intelligence since, as evidenced here, it's culturally biased.
<!--QuoteBegin-That Annoying Kid+Oct 1 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (That Annoying Kid @ Oct 1 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-kida+Sep 29 2004, 08:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Sep 29 2004, 08:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess "That Annoying kid" and Cam0.o are "smarter" than Einstein, Newton, Descartes, and Goethe...Hmmm... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Internet tests don't count. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It wasn't an internet test <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't eff around with that madness, it was administered by a clinical psychologist who was loaned to the school district, but like camo this was a long while ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know about TAK, but I wasn't even aware that I was taking an IQ test. At the time, I was actually worried if they thought I was retarded. I later learned it was for qualification into a higher ed class that taught advanced cognitive skills for people who scored high on the standarized tests. Fortunately, most states don't qualify people based on IQ anymore.
Comments
To help get us started, I googled this link on the <a href='http://www.testcafe.com/iqtest/history.html' target='_blank'>History of IQ</a>.
Just hype.
Should intelligence quotient tests be used to measure one's mental ability?
Should intelligence quotient tests be used to measure one's mental ability?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I.Q. tests only measure how well you do I.Q. tests - nothing more.
For example: You can still score 160+ on I.Q. tests, be regarded as a genius, have a PhD, etc etc - but that doesn't make you immune to trickery or frauds such as <a href='http://www.skepdic.com/geller.html' target='_blank'>Uri Geller</a>.
IQ = Mental Age (equivalency) / Chronological age (equivalency)
They use equivalencies now because the age measurement only works for children.
A 4 year old who has the understanding of a 6 year old has an IQ of 150 under this system.
Using this system a man of 60 years old must have the understanding of a 90 yr old. Doesn't quite work beyond 5-6 years old.
Of course this isn't true. When you compare numbers, either it is less than, equal to, or greater than. There is no gray area, so by comparing two IQ numbers, you are eliminating the gray area. IQ is far from accurate, and there is plenty we don't know about the brain. Thus IQ is fundamentally flawed.
I've heard about better IQ tests out there though that test a wide range of "intelligences." Granted they are still numbers, but they test things like physical intelligence and mathematical intelligence i.e. So that friend of yours that walked into the door might score great in mathematical intelligence, but not so terrific in physical intelligence.
The day you figure out a way to describe intelligence using numbers is the day you can build a computer which can simulate that intelligence. (think about that)
Hype.
Personally, I think the IQ test is more applicable to children in terms of intellectual potential (a 4 year old with the mental capacity of a 6 year old is really amazing), but nothing more than a test of common knowledge and specific cognitive skills which rarely prove to be an actual measure potential intelligence in adults.
P.S. Funny, we were just studying IQ in psych class today =O.
Internet tests don't count. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Solve the universe now daum u. I command thee! Give me protoss technology!!!
EDIT: I think my IQ is average, like 100. I am so terrible at those sort of things.
Besides that, you all have basically answered my question. Well, I was really just looking for opinions. But you're right, we shouldn't base intelligence on an arbitrary number. And what use is intelligence or knowledge if you don't have the wisdom to apply and use it in a beneficial way. Otherwise, it's talent wasted.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm no history expert, but I'm pretty sure that Newton, Descartes, and Goethe never had their IQ mesured since the test didn't exist in their lifetimes.
Einstein never had his IQ tested, but it is estimated to be between 160 and 200. Not bad for a guy who failed algebra...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm no history expert, but I'm pretty sure that Newton, Descartes, and Goethe never had their IQ mesured since the test didn't exist in their lifetimes.
Einstein never had his IQ tested, but it is estimated to be between 160 and 200. Not bad for a guy who failed algebra... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it was tested. They thought he was mentally retarded when they did the test given his math abilities, and sure enough, he failed it. Got a 60.
This was before the more famous part of his life began.
Being able to demonstrate math or pattern recognition does not the smart man make.
Most kids don't untill they are 6
Does that make me a super genious or waht guys?!
Most kids don't untill they are 6
Does that make me a super genious or waht guys?! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*pats Forlorn on the head and gives him a cookie*
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm no history expert, but I'm pretty sure that Newton, Descartes, and Goethe never had their IQ mesured since the test didn't exist in their lifetimes.
Einstein never had his IQ tested, but it is estimated to be between 160 and 200. Not bad for a guy who failed algebra... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it was tested. They thought he was mentally retarded when they did the test given his math abilities, and sure enough, he failed it. Got a 60.
This was before the more famous part of his life began. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? The limited amount of research I did turned up nothing on Einstein having ever taken an IQ test. Do you have a link?
He's obviously smart, but I thought the IQ test he took "labeled" him retarded.
However, it is a fairly good judgement of how well one might do in life. It is NOT a good judgement for special education programs etc.
Internet tests don't count. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wasn't an internet test <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't eff around with that madness, it was administered by a clinical psychologist who was loaned to the school district, but like camo this was a long while ago.
However, it is a fairly good judgement of how well one might do in life. It is NOT a good judgement for special education programs etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Truth if ever told, however, there was an experiment with Aboriginal children that was geared more towards their culture. So, instead of having to rotate a cube 90 degrees or some such, they used natural objects such as a feather, or a rock.
When they compared test results against the "Normal" IQ tests, it was found that Aborignal children did average-well on the "Natural" test and poorly on the "Normal" and vice versa for the white children.
I'd say that your culture has a large impact on how well you do on IQ tests, as it is it's not a perfect unit of measure for intelligence since, as evidenced here, it's culturally biased.
Internet tests don't count. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wasn't an internet test <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't eff around with that madness, it was administered by a clinical psychologist who was loaned to the school district, but like camo this was a long while ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know about TAK, but I wasn't even aware that I was taking an IQ test. At the time, I was actually worried if they thought I was retarded. I later learned it was for qualification into a higher ed class that taught advanced cognitive skills for people who scored high on the standarized tests. Fortunately, most states don't qualify people based on IQ anymore.