One Word For Ns: Frustration
sTo0z
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8275Members
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8275Members
<div class="IPBDescription">NS has some serious problems...</div> Ok before I start let me say I love NS, the whole idea is just wonderful, you guys pulled it off beautifully, and over-all it's been a great experience. But frustration is soon nestling in... I've TRIED to understand the balance, but I just don't see it...
First of all, the turrets. My good god are the turrets retarded. They take forever to lock on something, and when they do they don't do sh*t. The little buggers can run past them, the rocket sludge guys can just dance around and corner and waste the sh*t out of them. I mean, what's the point? Turrets are retarded! Why make them this bad? I guess I can see why you wouldn't want to make them too good, then the game would just turn into a camping frenzy of turrets, but is that really so bad? I mean, wouldn't that make it so the team would have to work together to take down a well defended area? As it stands, one fricken sludge rocket guy can take down any base by himself by dancing around a corner. And since he has unlimited ammo, he can just sit there forever until he's done. His splash damage is way too powerful. Seriously though, fix the turrets please. And if you don't want a big turret war, just limit the number a team can have....
Second of all, the hit detection needs a LOT of work... I can peg that sludge rocket guy in the head only to notice bullets are going right through. I know this because I set the damage indicator to ON on my server. So he can just sit up in a vent and shoot away and we don't touch him because only his head shows and bullets don't hit his head.
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
First of all, the turrets. My good god are the turrets retarded. They take forever to lock on something, and when they do they don't do sh*t. The little buggers can run past them, the rocket sludge guys can just dance around and corner and waste the sh*t out of them. I mean, what's the point? Turrets are retarded! Why make them this bad? I guess I can see why you wouldn't want to make them too good, then the game would just turn into a camping frenzy of turrets, but is that really so bad? I mean, wouldn't that make it so the team would have to work together to take down a well defended area? As it stands, one fricken sludge rocket guy can take down any base by himself by dancing around a corner. And since he has unlimited ammo, he can just sit there forever until he's done. His splash damage is way too powerful. Seriously though, fix the turrets please. And if you don't want a big turret war, just limit the number a team can have....
Second of all, the hit detection needs a LOT of work... I can peg that sludge rocket guy in the head only to notice bullets are going right through. I know this because I set the damage indicator to ON on my server. So he can just sit up in a vent and shoot away and we don't touch him because only his head shows and bullets don't hit his head.
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I'm unsure of which mod you're playing if you think turrets are useless. Turrets aren't invincible, and were never meant to be. They need SOME type of back up to be useful, they can't just hose down a room by themselves. You've obviously never played alien and tried to get to a t-fac by yourself as a Skulk if you complain that turrets are useless.
People complaining about fades make me mad. Nine times of ten, the Fade that keeps harassing you and your base with bilebombs/acid rockets is getting damaged, then he's running back to a gorge/def chamber and getting healed while a buddy takes his spot. Pursue him! Grab a friend and hose 'em with your hmg, then he's toast.
Collision detection is just fine. Maybe you're goin up against a fully evolved Fade using an LMG, but I can take down Fades just fine with an HMG/Shottie/GL. If I have backup, that is. Marines take teamwork.
Turrets just take too much time to notice anything. You think they would be smart enough to look at the corner for a few minutes where they are getting shot from. Why should they need back-up? They are automated defense turrets, they are meant to defend. If they needed backup they would have let us take control of them... But can we? No. What's the point of backup if you just get caught in the splash... Turrets are too retarded.
As for hit detection, I don't know how you can say it's fine, to hurt buildings you need to shoot near the base of them (especially for aliens).
Marine Turrets: 25 Damage, long range
what's the problem?
If the alien team is that far into the game in which they can bile bomb, then so be it. That's the point, everything on the alien team has unlimited ammo, not even considered ammo after the Lerk uses the energy to fly. Anyways it's exatreamly hard to find a camping spot and bile bomb a marine base, I mean the ammunition is heavy for a reason, if you've noticed it curves while it fires. Well that's because they probbally thought something to like what you're saying might happen.
There is not and will be no hit detection in NS.
Marines can do the same thing with the nade gun yes, but I don't want them to be able to do it either... This one man base killer thing is stupid.
Fades are overpowered against LIGHT MARINES, just as Heavy Marines are overpowered against SKULKS
GET USED TO IT.
Rocket aliens however, are way too easy... walk around and splash everything. Just head over to the UT2003 forums and you'll see the same complaints with the rockets. Walking around and splashing everything is just too retarded to be fun.
and how come your not bashing other things in the game, like seige turrets that shoot through walls?
However, you make an interesting point about hit detection. I believe the dev team says NS doesn't need good a hit detection system (head-shots, for example), because this isn't a Weapons game, but a Strategy game. However, the reason the Fade (the acid rocket/bile bomb aliens) doesn't take hits on its extremities is because its using the same bounding box (area in which stuff hits it, calculated as a box by the game physics system) as the marines, but the fade's 3D model is quite a bit larger. The dev team can't make a bigger bounding box for the fade because of the limitations of the collision detection system in the Half-Life engine. However, I <i>do</i> have a suggestion:
<i>Make the models a little smaller.</i> The fade model is pretty huge, and can stand to be shrunken and still make little Marines shiver in their boots. I also suggest the Onos (the big 'rhino-sized' alien) be shrunken just a teensy bit. Its bounding box is far smaller than the model too.
The <i>frustration</i> part, however, will disappear one you <i>learn how to play the freaking game</i>. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> The people complain about stuff thats 'imbalanced' or 'suxx0rs!!!!11' are just people who've only been playing for a little while and don't know what the game's all about.
Oh yeah, and be careful with the swearing stooz. A certain <i>unfriendly</i> admin was being a hardass about it, it seems he feels pretty strongly about the mindless, pointless, redundant censorship on the forums, and that said <i>unfriendly</i> admin will stifle any such adverse opinion... possibly even an opinion such as the one I've just expressed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Peace.
And yes, there are one or two problems with hit detection at the moment. Flayra has been informed.
I've said it many times: You can't complain about overall balance until you play with teams of equal skill for a good amount of time. Only then will you be playing the way it was intended.
Natural Selection was balanced over a long time and the playtesters became quite skilled at the game. The game is balanced and designed for two teams of equal skill and intelligence and a high level of strategic thinking. There is currently no such thing existing, outside of the people who playtested. Wait till we're all good at it and then you can judge the overall balance.
What I'm saying though, is there is little strategy when one guy can run around and plaster a defense that took time to set up. That's usually the defining quality of a base in any strategy game. You take over an area and defend it. Then you gain more ground. If the other team doesn't like this, he sets up an assault. Of course if you look at say StarCraft for an example... one seige tank could roll up and take out any Protoss cannon area. Then you say "just stick some guys at the base to counter the tank!"
Fine you can stick marines around a base... but who wants to sit around all day? Not me.
Anyways, I happen to like NS and I appreciate the months of work that went into it. If you don't like the way NS works, go make your own mod.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Turrets long range? Hah! You don't know how many times I've seen a rocket alien just sit all comfortable at the end of a hallway where the gun doesn't even bother to look at him. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTF! Ok so let me get this straight, you SAW a Fade blasting a base down a hallway and you didnt go HA HMG owning all over his arse? That could be your problem, you rely on turrets to kill stuff they arnt supossed to. I mean i guess i could drop a turret in a hall and hope it kills an Onos and they complain when it doesnt, or i can go kill the hive and saw goodbye to Onos. Or linstead of hopeing the nice little fade wont attack my base i could grab me a shotty and HA and go owning all over the Fade.
FADE + DEF Turrets = Ownage.
Nades + Seige Turrets = DEF TURRETS OWNED.
No Defense Turrets + FADE = HMG Ownage.
Or i guess we can rely on turrets to kill em, i guess, if we wanna lose.
Secondly, a skilled player knows what's best to do. For example, as a marine, you should stick together, and be very agressive. The commander should give a heads up whenever he feels the base is under any real threat, at which point the marines should be returned with all possible speed to the base to defend it. Hopefully with a phase portal.
As an alien, you have to go and make sure to harrass the marines at all times. Keep them defending their base, and you'll keep them from taking your hives. One or two aliens should be a builder, and go around building RP towers and hives (and don't forget the upgrades). Any alien should respond to a building that is under attack. Always. It's a sign that marines are on the move, and you need to stop them before they get where they're going.
I just hate it when something this good has these annoying things. And maybe the game is fine and I'm retarded, but the only way I'm gonna find out is to post what I think and have other people attempt to educate me.
Hey Scapegoat, thanks for calling me dumb, appreciate it. Maybe I'm not as educated in the workings of the world as you, I mean I not everyone can be such a gifted fellow...
What you don't seem to pick up is that I agree with what you're saying... and what I'M saying is splash weapons are way overpowered. Splash weapons = *yawn* too easy. They ruin the game for me.
A skilled player knows what to do? Yah sure he does, pick up a splash weapon and go kill everything.