Medic 'class' In Marines... Bad Idea?
MbOoGiE
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2030Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2030Members
i'm not talking about a guy spawned differently, nor do i talk about that guy who backs up the HA tank with welds, but instead something that takes over your primary weapon akin to a medic pack.
medic kit would require ammunition, gotten either from armory, or a seperate medic station. it would have a 'recharge' time between heals (in the form of a reload time maybe), and the medic kit upgrade would take the 'slot' that jet packs and HAs would usually take (ie: u can't have an HA with a upgraded medic pack, or a jetpack guy with a medic kit). they wouldn't be completely defenseless, as they would still have their handgun, which can take out rushing skulks.
i'm thinking about how it would unbalance the game, but i don't see how... the only thing that would happen is lift the burden of the commander from dropping health packs... and it would help flesh out the roles more... right now, organized teams usually have a dedicated builder while the rest guards, a dedicated nade spammer while an HA rushes a fade, a welder backing up that HA... with marines having the flexibility to switch and mesh roles together, while the aliens advantage being the specialization of each of their roles through various evolved forms and certain upgrade paths. balanced, in different ways.
when we're talking about unit matchup... though a lot of people would disagree... an HA marine with GL and welder backup does not = a lerk, fade, and a gorg'ed built defense tower atm... because of the simple fact that the defense tower heals both health and armor, and the fades recent upgrade. if it didn't build up armor, or better, if it only healed up armor, and required the gorges to actually heal hp, then it would give a more balanced unit for unit matchup... but i'd rather give a marine boost instead of an alien nerf so i suggest the medic pack "weapon"...
due to how the game is setup now... the medic kit upgrade should come in just before the 2nd hive abilities come up. my reasoning behind it would be that it would come in at the same time gorges start building defense tower backups before a 2nd hive assault... though like both sides, either can have it up earlier... while aliens can have defense towers setup before 2nd hive is up, they sacrifice the resources and time necessary to start the 2nd hive... same with the marines, they can bring in the medic pack early... with the sacrifice being that the resources used to bring it in would be better used for better things at that point in the game... like observatory/phase portals near hive choke points, arms lab and upgrades, and of course, maybe more turrets (laff)
what u guys think?
medic kit would require ammunition, gotten either from armory, or a seperate medic station. it would have a 'recharge' time between heals (in the form of a reload time maybe), and the medic kit upgrade would take the 'slot' that jet packs and HAs would usually take (ie: u can't have an HA with a upgraded medic pack, or a jetpack guy with a medic kit). they wouldn't be completely defenseless, as they would still have their handgun, which can take out rushing skulks.
i'm thinking about how it would unbalance the game, but i don't see how... the only thing that would happen is lift the burden of the commander from dropping health packs... and it would help flesh out the roles more... right now, organized teams usually have a dedicated builder while the rest guards, a dedicated nade spammer while an HA rushes a fade, a welder backing up that HA... with marines having the flexibility to switch and mesh roles together, while the aliens advantage being the specialization of each of their roles through various evolved forms and certain upgrade paths. balanced, in different ways.
when we're talking about unit matchup... though a lot of people would disagree... an HA marine with GL and welder backup does not = a lerk, fade, and a gorg'ed built defense tower atm... because of the simple fact that the defense tower heals both health and armor, and the fades recent upgrade. if it didn't build up armor, or better, if it only healed up armor, and required the gorges to actually heal hp, then it would give a more balanced unit for unit matchup... but i'd rather give a marine boost instead of an alien nerf so i suggest the medic pack "weapon"...
due to how the game is setup now... the medic kit upgrade should come in just before the 2nd hive abilities come up. my reasoning behind it would be that it would come in at the same time gorges start building defense tower backups before a 2nd hive assault... though like both sides, either can have it up earlier... while aliens can have defense towers setup before 2nd hive is up, they sacrifice the resources and time necessary to start the 2nd hive... same with the marines, they can bring in the medic pack early... with the sacrifice being that the resources used to bring it in would be better used for better things at that point in the game... like observatory/phase portals near hive choke points, arms lab and upgrades, and of course, maybe more turrets (laff)
what u guys think?
Comments
gg <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
the roles are given to those with the right equipment. with the current resource model, you will not have everyone in HAs, someone can't have an HMG or GL at the same time, and it's not exactly best use for your HA badass to be building when he'd be 2000% more effective guarding your builders.
and whats more likely med packs fall out of thin air to heal you or a marine medic heals you.
Right now my russian tactic is to have two HA HMG and two weilders follow them and heal. when/if one dies weilder picks up his hmg and moves on..... It works =)
Oh yeah I think this would add even more of a team play enviorment to the game as well.
a fun, and more effective tactic (imo) is the light armor/hmg defense. we all know HMGs own... when fighting over a choke point, one or two of these can own most any skulk rushes, and would cut down the turret-take down time by a lot.
early on in the game, u rush out with LMGs and try to secure a choke point (no teching up at this point other than observatory). build turret defenses, armory, then phase portal... and it's like your second base. by the time that armory upgrades (ie: play like an alien, zerg em when low on ammo, then respawn/phase into the choke point with another 100 ammo), you drop HMGs... sure, you die really fast, but this is where team play comes along. an HMG carrier dies, you rush towards the gun and bring it back to your mini-base at choke point and re-ammo if needed.
this way, with very minimal resources, and given a little bit of time to equip everyone with HMGs... your team is basically stronger than what the aliens can match up with. this is incredibly easy to do, but does carry a few risks. if the team is unsuccessful at putting up turrets/phase portal at choke point, you risk losing all those resources and have given the alien team more time to get 2nd hive up. another risk would be the lamer n00b who picks up the HMG and dies with it in a hard-to-get-to area... or worse, he dies without knowing or telling anyone where the HMG was dropped... but again, that's a player-fault and not a game-fault.
when thinking RTS economies, always think about getting the most out of every spent resource.
u guys better start thinking RTS strats...
anyways, back to the medic thing... ^.^
But then again, how many people do you think would <i>actually</i> give up the joys of blasting things for stupid old "teamwork?"
This addition would have to be seriously considered before being put in.
while defense chambers heal up units quite easily, it still doesn't heal as fast as a gorge (though 4-5 def chambers does the job the gorge should be doing... which imo... isn't quite right)... this would carry on for the marine side as well... while a medic kit equipped guy can heal people up... it still wouldn't be equal to a commander who spams 2-4 health packs for his team... for one, he would only be able to heal one person at a time, and it would also take him longer to heal 4 people one by one, than if the commander just dropped him some hp. something that would do the healing job of the commander, but not at full potential, just like defense chambers do the job of the gorg healing backup, though, not at full potential.
"But then again, how many people do you think would actually give up the joys of blasting things for stupid old "teamwork?"
not that many in random servers... no. but in clan matches, 100%.
edit add:
the more i think about it, the more it seems to fit the profile of "secondary weapon" upgrade instead of primary... though i been giving it much though, mostly in the name of balance. a gorge in the front lines has a lot more tasks than heal. a few webs on the ground, and you would need a welder or else even your HAs are mincemeat. if this is the case, the medic needs to be doing something in the front lines as well... something that would be equivalent of "gorge backup" in the fights... not completely useless as to be solely devoted to healing, but not effective enough to give up the medic job...
i dunno i'll sleep on it and add more suggestions tomorrow.
A) This should have gone in the Suggestions forum.
B) Were this to be implemented, a drop item similar to Tripmines would be the best approach. The commander lays down a cluster of 3 medkits for 8-9 resources, and it replaces your secondary. That way a marine can't have a welder <i>and</i> medkits, and it's more expensive than simply dropping them to make up for the convenience of being able to focus on other things.
i sorta like that idea... but the main idea for a med kit is to flesh out more tasks/roles for marines...
but i had the same train of thought as your idea in terms of rate of fire and reload/total ammo. i would expect something that would have 3 uses, which gives marines maybe a 30-35hp heal, then reloads (note, slow), does this 3 times, and would need to reammo up at an ammo depot at the same speed it takes to ammo up a nade launcher... 4-8 "reloads" at ammo station to being full.
I imagine having it availble to be dropped by the commander...in a consumable fashion...I.E. I can drop like 5 medpaks which would go in thier either 1 or 2 slot...take out thier pistol maybe...so you have a wielder guy or a medic. They have 5 medical kits which heal...80 damage or so...and they can only hold up ot 5 or something. I like the idea...would give the team guys with wielders or medics to help on rushes...Alows the commander to still drop more med paks or medical kits whichever is needed and frees up the commander a bit from puppy gaurding all his marines.
Perhaps something that when a medic performs a heal, it would only perform a heal equal to a single medipack, it would also take the amount of resources that the commander would normally use to drop a single medipak. It would be something that the commander, if needs be, could turn off due to the requirements of the squad is he commanding, that or a medic who is going heal happy.
I agree it should be a primary weapon, not secondary, the main reason being:
<b>So you don't have a group of heavy armoured marines, weilding heavy machine guns/grenade launchers/shotguns and when hurt use their secondary healing on each other.</b>
If you do add it, then treat it as you would the jetpack, requires an experimental chamber. No heavy armor and the other requirement, it would take up your primary slot. Once you have equiped the medical kit, you would not be able to pick up the welders tool.
So your medic would basically be someone that those with the heavy gear would want to protect to keep them alive. However, they would be far from helpless. That pistol can still be used to kill.
Take care all
LS
So your medic would basically be someone that those with the heavy gear would want to protect to keep them alive. However, they would be far from helpless. That pistol can still be used to kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry ... but that won't work. You're a light-armoured, pistol-carrying Marine who I <b>KNOW</b> can't kill me. You're lunch for a Skulk, or target practice for a budding Lerk. Heck, I'd rush you as Gorge if I knew all you had was the pistol. Two Webs and a little Spray later, and you're dead meat.
Never mind that if there was a second hive up, it'd be a matter of *blink* *Whap Whap* *blink* and you're dead.
- M4H
I like the commander mode. If some things are difficult in commander mode, maybe they are <b>supposed to be</b>.
Stop the insanity.
So what your saying is that if the medic was with 2 or 3 others in Heavy armor and with HMG's, your going to ignore them and go after the medic.. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hmm, sounds good to me I love doing that spectator mode while waiting for the respawn..
However, if the medic wants to run about by himself, then sure, let him die and waste the resources...
Take care
LS
anyway, its just one idea. Personally I can see why poeple want a medic in the feild...but I dont think we need one...if they can make the commander interface a little easier to keep track of troops and their statis, then the whole medic easy will disappear. I love it the way it is now.
think of a game... for every guy you have doing something other than combat, that's another guy not IN combat. another guy not in HA/HMG nade spamming your lerks. another guy who's not building stuff.
-"hey, if marines get medpacks maybe aliens should!"
the aliens have something much much greater... it's called defense chambers. no upkeep, free health, and it's a one time build thing. did i also mention it's only 14 resources? this health wouldn't be "free".
u should read into more of my suggestion... no, it SHOULD'NT be = to commander dropped health packs. it's a supplement to the commander's heal abilities, not a replacement for it... 27-30 hp per shot, with 3 shots before reloading, (note: does not completely heal a guy with less than 10 hp) a slow reload time, and a total of 6-12 backup "ammo".
a GL spammer in HA right next to an ammo depot seems pretty badass... but check out that slow ammo-up time, as well as the slow reload... he's FAR from vulnerable, and there's always a 2-4 second interval in nade spam that you can rush him. this sort of weakness is the same for a guy equipped with a medic kit. sure he can go around healing people, but for him to be able to heal every single person in a squad, he'll need an ammo depot right next to him, and it'll take him a long time...
this isn't meant to get rid of the commanders position as "the invisible sixth man" in a squad that provides ammo and health packs... but help him do his job better with resource management, tech upgrades, as well as equipment hand outs... without having his squads annihalated everytime he turns around for 2 seconds.
though a lot of the attacks damage armor, it's easily "healable" with a welder. welding people is free, takes 2 seconds to completely weld an HA back up to 290hp, as well as being able to be carried by HAs themselves, and heal themselves.
i don't see why your not all up in arms about that. what's happening right now is WAY worse than what i'm suggesting. maybe it's alien fanatics who would cry about this, not knowing marine basics... but if you ever played as an HA, only a few things take off a good chunk of your HP as well as armor. acid rockets , and bile bombs/lerk gas (3rd hive abilities). this would give a chance for improvement on even better teamplay. welders healing HA marines armor, medics healing those with low HP.
As for the medic idea......
I normally am one of the first ppl to support medics(I wanted them in DoD, and play them exclusively in FA) but in NS Im not so sure. I find the game pretty well balanced right now and as such I see no real need for a medic. Perhaps my opinion will change in time but for right now Im kinda, sorta against it. Mmmmmm perhpas a better way of expressing my opinion viewpoint would be........lets just wait and see.