Constructive Criticism
Azkar
Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18204Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18204Members, Constellation
Comments
When a beta is open it causes rushed releases due to public demand and I think the only releases that should be rushed is if there is some widespread, severely game damaging bug, which could be done through steam if (when?) NS is supported by Valve and shouldn't happen with a larger PT group at all.
When is Valve meant to be supporting NS via steam anyway? When the final version of 3.0 is released?
When a beta is open it causes rushed releases due to public demand and I think the only releases that should be rushed is if there is some widespread, severely game damaging bug, which could be done through steam if (when?) NS is supported by Valve and shouldn't happen with a larger PT group at all.
When is Valve meant to be supporting NS via steam anyway? When the final version of 3.0 is released? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
More PTs without background checks persay would cause more problems than benifits. Also, how many times has steam/CS/HL been fubared cuz of a "content update". NS will never be supported by "valve" due to it isnt a valve owned product for them to claim revenue off of. I think this thread was a waste of time starting without any content... kinda like steam.
But I agree- and thats why I love B5. Though, I'd like to see small, quick updates, that are purely bug fixes.
But I agree- and thats why I love B5. Though, I'd like to see small, quick updates, that are purely bug fixes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would be a lot happier with a delayed release, rather than a rushed release. Sure, you get kind of anxious, but I would rather have a solid build
EDIT: it just shows me the devs care more about pleasing the player base, than comming out with a solid game
More PTs without background checks persay would cause more problems than benifits. Also, how many times has steam/CS/HL been fubared cuz of a "content update". NS will never be supported by "valve" due to it isnt a valve owned product for them to claim revenue off of. I think this thread was a waste of time starting without any content... kinda like steam. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would you not perform background checks on PTs and where has anyone said that?
I'm also sure that one of the devs has said that NS will be supported by steam quite recently.
Mainly because when people have a solid version they can take tactics and strategies to a higher level instead of having to adapt to bugs and worthless features every few months, both for clan games and public play. In 3.0 public play seems so unpredictable and barely any commanders seem to understand what it takes to win the game (TF in base with 6 turrets "for base defense in case skulks come!" anyone? Yeah.)
In competitive play when we have a stable build and we can work tactics from there less clans break up and more can get better. I know my clan folded probably(you can never be sure with ktdm -_-) for the last time with the release of B5. Right now there are very few GOOD clans, lots of mediocre and poor but no outstanding super-spectacular omgexigent/ham/ktdm/syn/torment/er/redomg style clans.
Such a dilemma, quality, or making the deadline? Applies to school and to games
I'm going with what moomin said about the solid version and the extra testing in private
Mainly because when people have a solid version they can take tactics and strategies to a higher level instead of having to adapt to bugs and worthless features every few months, both for clan games and public play. In 3.0 public play seems so unpredictable and barely any commanders seem to understand what it takes to win the game (TF in base with 6 turrets "for base defense in case skulks come!" anyone? Yeah.)
In competitive play when we have a stable build and we can work tactics from there less clans break up and more can get better. I know my clan folded probably(you can never be sure with ktdm -_-) for the last time with the release of B5. Right now there are very few GOOD clans, lots of mediocre and poor but no outstanding super-spectacular omgexigent/ham/ktdm/syn/torment/er/redomg style clans. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed (although I believe you already know that I don't agree with you on the
state of competitive ns and never have :E).
I guess the big stable build before closed beta-testing is what they're working on
now, though. b6? We can hope.
I'd also like to mention the official website for competitive ns and the ATI
tournament. Where the did they go? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's no fun when you advertise for stuff that
doesn't happen.
That would only help if they were updating every week or two.
Also, you have to factor in where you would be getting the bandwidth for a little update program.
When I have to read opinions on the maps I maintain, sometimes I wonder if people imagine what it takes to read through all kinds of crap with very little support (just, OMG U RUINED IT!!!11111LOLOLOL MORON!1111") about something that has taken a lot of your free time, which could have been spent in something else.
If you think the Devs are not listening, or they are not trying to make everyone happy, well, you're <b>very wrong</b>. But you know... you can't please everyone.
Maybe I should give you all a short rundown on the current situation so that you know what we are working with:
At the end of B5's development cycle, which had been 'unnecessarily' extended because Flayra, who still did almost all work on NS to that date, had to move to keep himself fed, he started assembling a new, extended dev team, first Elven_Thief and voogru, who worked under his strict direction at that time (so stop blaming voog for blockscripts), then MadMaXX, who takes care of the sounds of NS (and yes, he <i>is</i> aware of the public's reception of the JP sounds. It was a mixing issue.). Later, it became apparent that this only meant Charlie had traded direct coding time for time organizing the coders, which was unfortunate since he needs a hell of a lot more time to maintain UWE and its projects. Thus, others, including myself, were appointed to take over on the day to day organization of the team and to further contribute to the actual code. Note that the community management team, the IRC ops and forum admins / mods, are not members of the dev team, although I happen to supervise both groups.
So now, we have Flayra, directing the development by making design decisions and the likes, Joev, organizing the development team, deciding who is to tackle which objective when, me, managing the product, deciding what to put into which build of NS and when to release each, voogru, puzl, Elven_Thief, Brig and MadMaXX actually contributing stuff, Tyr organizing the maps and supporting our 'external' contributors, the mappers, and grepdashv taking care of the QA side of things in concert with the PT Leads. Zunni, then, sits among us and gets grey hairs trying to explain this mess to you.
This structure has only been in place since shortly before Beta 5's release and is still constantly changing since none of us can hope to commit as much time as Charlie did. So, while the designer of NS and its direction remains the same, I think you can see why this big an overhaul will change a few things.
I hope this explains a few 'irregularities' that popped up between the release of B4a and now, and makes it easier to understand who you are actually directing your criticism at.
1) Improve the commander mode. Like allow faster scrolling and actually show the aliens when you can see them (Sort of like a fog of war.)
2) Make more small tweaks, than major ones. Small tweak example: Changing the health a bit of somthing / someone. Rather than adding an entire new feature. I'm not suggesting the aliens need health changes, I was just using it as an example of a small tweak.
Of course this topic to me just seems like an ideas and suggestions topic. There's already a forum for that.
The thing is, with the unfortunate inclusion of _special scripts in b5, all tournament play en Europe enforces bs_1, not for ordinary scripts but for the risk of someone using _special scripts. A quick bug fix release -if possible- called something like beta 5a or beta 5.1 where you remove _special would not only remove an exploit from the game but also remove a feature that creates alot of discussion and unneccecary confronatations in the community (including the "pubbing" one, since it is on public servers _special scripts would be used at the moment).
So generalizing this to one point
-Quick bug fixes of small but important bugs to create a reasonable platform to play the game on, both competetively and casualy.
I realise this is called a beta, but when everyone in the community plays it (even in leagues), it is effectively not a beta but as finished a product a multiplayer game ever becomes.
I think the devs do an awesome job, but one thing I remember that excited me when I was still relatively new (had been playing for about 8 months). I started to play on LM (a<b> long</b> time ago) and Max would play there (this was back when it was sponsored by readyroom and it was well known that and Monse and many others used to play there after a certain time at night), we also had various mappers come (when KFS came I almost died, tommyd came quite frequently also), Flayra had stopped by, other big names like joev, and Grendel etc. played on that server, and I had seen some of them on other servers also. It made me feel so good about the game I was playing to see that the people who created it (and worked on and maintained it) were actually out there and playing it with the public. I don’t remember exactly what I thought of the developers but I guess I imagined them all just sitting in a room and designing games all day type of thing (this was before I understood the concept of a ‘mod’- yes I know better now). I imagined them all working on this game, and not really interacting with the public, so seeing them all playing at various dif. times really changed my opinion. I know it seems like a lot to ask, and I know some of the devs do play because I see some of them quite often (Zunni being Mr. Pr guy, and others), but if more devs and mappers and other ‘idolized’ people play it will excite the newer players about the game, and it will probably keep them playing longer. This excitement really comes in handy not only for those newer players, but also the general public through times where people think that NS would die (because “noone was working on it”), or no one would ever scrim again, it leaves people with some hope. If the makers play, it means they still care about the game. I will never forget the first time Flayra commanded on a server I played on, or the first time I saw Max or KFS (in case you couldn't tell, before I started competitive play eclipse and then veil were my absolute favorite maps) on the same server as me.
Yes I know it sounds silly for people who have been playing for awhile because we see dev members and are like oh hey you, because we know them and are friends with them (we remember when they first started playing, or when we were a member of the same “clan” as them), but think about the newer players. When I saw the names of the people who created the game in the same server as me I thought it was so awesome. I just think it would be good pr for the game, if you were so inclined.
(Randomly going to servers to play, even one or two games and then leaving, I think it would really help – I’m not suggesting what was done on that server where all the pts/devs/mappers came to the same place, it’s not as efficient (even if it was great fun for the quiet little pubbers who got to be there for it).
(As a side note I also agree with the above guy, if there is a really annoying bug such as not being able to switch to your pistol and or knife in the begining of the game, or lmg if you had switched before the game started, those releases would be nice quickly, but others if the last build (as this one, and many others are/were) was acceptable then we're in no hurry, at least I'm not - I'd prefer quality over quantity for updates any day of the week. I think many people feel that way.
1) Improve the commander mode. Like allow faster scrolling and actually show the aliens when you can see them (Sort of like a fog of war.)
2) Make more small tweaks, than major ones. Small tweak example: Changing the health a bit of somthing / someone. Rather than adding an entire new feature. I'm not suggesting the aliens need health changes, I was just using it as an example of a small tweak.
Of course this topic to me just seems like an ideas and suggestions topic. There's already a forum for that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) you can click on the minimap in the bottom left corner of the commander hud to jump to that point on the map already and if you have something hotkeyed you can double click on its icon & it moves your view over it. Also +jump is used as a type of jump to event key. When you hear the "your base is under attack" message press whichever key you have bound to +jump (assuming this isn't one of the commander keys) and your view will jump there.
The fog of war already exists. If a marine can see an alien or alien structure so can the commander. An observatory will place red blips on the minimap for any alien or structure in its radius even before motion tracking is researched and you've always got the use of scan with your observatory if you need to see more.
2) this is why they have closed testing with PTs, to test small tweaks like this effectively. Although I get your point as 1.0 skulks had 70/10 (30 with carapace) in 2.0 they had 75/25 (45 with carapace) but in 3.0 are back to 1.0 values. I reckon if the closed testing results in hp/armour changes being found to be beneficial we will see them in a public beta or final release. IIRC Gorges had their armour increased in beta 5 from the beta 4 value so it does happen but you just don't see it as often as you think (Fades & Onos were like wet toilet paper when switched from 2.0 to 3.0 until their stats were beefed up gradually over beta 1-3).
I think there commander interface could do with a few slight improvements. "Your base is under attack" isn't very helpful when it plays the sound very rarely & it uses the same sound for every marine structure other than the command chairs. Just adding a new "Resource Tower under attack" sound and maybe making the structure under attack flash on the minimap would be more helpful. Also the different waypoints types seem to be very erratic. It might be a server specific thing but sometimes its literally impossible to give anything other than the move here waypoints and sometimes even with no marines selected the whole team gets waypoints when you drop a structure (which is generally bad when you're trying to sneak up a phase gate at a hive location since it alerts all nearby aliens to the marines presence).
Jane, tommyd, Zunni, grepdashv, TyrNemesis, MrBen & probably a couple of other dev team people still play on Lunixmonster quite regularly as do a large number of playtesters & forum moderators like the great BobtheJanitor.
There is the other end of the stick though if you think about it. I've seen some of the abuse voogru got on a pub server from people who have the misconception that he is responsible for everything they dislike in NS. What will the new players be inclined to think when they see someone with a dev icon getting torrents of abuse from people with constellation or veteran icons?