Should Ugly Or Thick People Have Confidence?

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Comments

  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-illuminex+Oct 21 2004, 03:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ Oct 21 2004, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's really pathetic how you all nitpick his credibility and attack him with "that's really bigoted," but you won't take the time to dissect the major aspects of his viewpoints in a constructive manner. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The problem being that I don't believe any of us accept that he has any worthy premises on which to base his 'argument', if you can call it that. If I came in and posted that blue-eyed people shouldn't try to get jobs in accounting, because it's obvious that people with blue eyes are terrible at math... would there even be a reason to respond?

    I challenge him to prove his premises at all. Where is the standard by which humans are judged? Where is the line above which we can call people 'normal' and below which we get to start labeling them 'sub-human'? Who, exactly, makes that judgment?

    Frankly, no one is debating back because there's no argument worth making here. There's just one person with odd ideas posting as if the world agreed with him. It doesn't.

    I'm grudgingly leaving this open, as I feel it likely a few more people might have something to add, but I'll be keeping a close eye on it as well.
  • illuminexilluminex Join Date: 2004-03-13 Member: 27317Members, Constellation
    I completely agree with you all, but I just am annoyed at how you don't take the time to actually hit him hard. Imagine if someone had bothered to invest even a tiny amount of time or energy into Hitler to show him a better viewpoint in a more positive light. Just imagine. That's my point. Most people agree that being ugly or fat shouldn't determine your whole outview on life or level of happiness. However, the last two threads this guy has been a part of I've seen nothing but ripping on him.

    Dukem, I've pondered many of the same things you have. Would I choose to live on if I became paralyzed? If I lost a limb? See, my looks are important to me as well. But, I've also had the pleasure of meeting some very fun and intelligent people who were fat and/or ugly, and their value as a person extended beyond their looks. Physical appearance can only go so far. The world is shallow, but that's because the world is a collective. Zoom in on one part of the world, and it becomes deeper. Keeping zooming in until you find a group of friends. They're all quite deep. And then, zoom into the individual, the deepest part of all.

    And then you realize that looks are a surface thing. Every person can make a difference, and for that those people that are fat or ugly can be eternally happy. The better looking you are, the more likely you are to focus on looks. That may be part of your problem right there. So, try seeing it from the other side.
  • Special_KSpecial_K Join Date: 2003-04-19 Member: 15637Members, Constellation
    Good work, but you only covered part of his thesis. Dukem just used looks as an example.
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So this is the question - should poorly equipt people <b>(in any respect)</b> be confidence and proud of themselves or should they try and hide their existence from the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited October 2004
    He takes it to an extreme, which I think is a little shallow, but there is a point to what he's sayin.

    There's a quote that sums it up, I can't remember exact wording or the author, but...

    "A man who having nothing intelligent to say would be wise to refrane from giving evidence to the fact."

    Basically, should people who have no credibility in a certain area feel confident enough to participate in it?

    Examples:

    (his) Should unattractive people wear clothes meant to "show off" their bodies?
    (others) Should people who don't know math try to teach it?
    Should a debilitated person try to play basketball?

    This list goes on and on, but there is a point to be made. We'd like to think we live in a accepting society, but there are cases where being politically correct just doesn't work.

    A great example is physical criteria to join the armed forces. Out-of-shape, blind people don't make good foot soldiers, I'm sorry. So his question would be: should that person even try to make it into the army?

    America has a huge culture thing with overcoming adversity, and while in many cases that's a good character aspect, in some cases it's just better to not waste the time. Again, I'm just playing the devil's advocate, I don't necessarily agree or disagree.

    But like Illuminex was saying, you all need to be a little less harsh on superficial things. Insulting his grammar and not debunking his point is like insulting a fellas looks after he beats in you in a game of hoops and just walking off the court - you've not saved face, you've not earned respect. You've just made yourself look worse.

    I'm not gonna lock this, if some other mod feels it necessary, so be it. At least I won't if you all start making more intelligent posts.
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    edited October 2004
    I am truly concerned for your mental well being. I'm not being sassy, I'm genuinely worried.

    Read your posts again Dukem... to me you are basically asking,

    "Should physically unattractive people be happy?"

    <i>Supporting Quotes</i>

    <b>Dukem</b>
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So this is the question - should poorly equipt people (in any respect) be confidence and proud of themselves or should they try and hide their existence from the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Your hypothesis seems to be based on;

    "If I was physically unattractive I would hide myself and not part take or contribute to society."

    <i>Supporting Quotes</i>

    <b>Dukem</b>
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm quite a self obsessed person - i know that if i were a girl and looked like lots of the girls i know - then i would be too ashamed to leave my house - yet these people are much happier than I am .. I just wondering if you think this is right..."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <b>Dukem</b>
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good point - take the case of that Superman guy - would you have committed suicide i would have. With Hawkins the same applies - i could never live with myself to have a public personality if i looked like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In your own comments you demonstrate a stunning insight into your own personality... you believe the judgement of others should dictate your actions in society. Everyone takes into account what the people around them thinks, there is nothing wrong with that. But in your case your "self-obsession" seems to be so deep that your <i>perception</i> of people's opinion of you <b><i>dictates</i></b> your very action. So in actuality, unless they have truthfully expressed their opinion of your appearance, you are judging yourself.

    This is a psychologically defective personality because you can never know exactly how people percieve you, you are just projecting your perceptions onto what you think they must be percieving.

    Your "self-obsession" has gotten so rampant your actions and emotion are being dictating by <u>your perception of other people's opinion of you</u>.

    And therein lies the difference between you and those you deem as "...below you...", they don't let their <i>peception</i> of what other people think of them affect them the same way they affect you, so they are free to enjoy the happiness that stems from social interactions and just plain having fun free of other people's judgement.

    This is not to say they don't think about what other people think of them, they just don't <b>obsess</b> about it.

    Many people here were unfair to you by attacking you, it seems to me you need some help and guidance more then harsh words...

    EDiT: Typos and Revisions
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Fantasmo+Oct 21 2004, 06:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Oct 21 2004, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am truly concerned for your mental well being. I'm not being sassy, I'm genuinely worried.

    Read your posts again Dukem... to me you are basically asking,

    "Should physically unattractive people be happy?"

    <i>Supporting Quotes</i>

    <b>Dukem</b>
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So this is the question - should poorly equipt people (in any respect) be confidence and proud of themselves or should they try and hide their existence from the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Your hypothesis seems to be based on;

    "If I was physically unattractive I would hide myself and not part take or contribute to society."

    <i>Supporting Quotes</i>

    <b>Dukem</b>
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm quite a self obsessed person - i know that if i were a girl and looked like lots of the girls i know - then i would be too ashamed to leave my house - yet these people are much happier than I am .. I just wondering if you think this is right..."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <b>Dukem</b>
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good point - take the case of that Superman guy - would you have committed suicide i would have. With Hawkins the same applies - i could never live with myself to have a public personality if i looked like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In your own comments you demonstrate a stunning insight into your own personality... you believe the judgement of others should dictate your actions in society. Everyone takes into account what the people around them thinks, there is nothing wrong with that. But in your case your "self-obsession" seems to be so deep that your <i>perception</i> of people's opinion of you <b><i>dictates</i></b> your very action. So in actuality, unless they have truthfully expressed their opinion of your appearance, you are judging yourself.

    This is a psychologically defective personality because you can never know exactly how people percieve you, you are just projecting your perceptions onto what you think they must be percieving.

    Your "self-obsession" has gotten so rampant your actions and emotion are being dictating by <u>your perception of other people's opinion of you</u>.

    And therein lies the difference between you and those you deem as "...below you...", they don't let their <i>peception</i> of what other people think of them affect them the same way they affect you, so they are free to enjoy the happiness that stems from social interactions and just plain having fun free of other people's judgement.

    This is not to say they don't think about what other people think of them, they just don't <b>obsess</b> about it.

    Many people here were unfair to you by attacking you, it seems to me you need some help and guidance more then harsh words...

    EDiT: Typos and Revisions <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If he cares so much about what people think about him why would he make posts like this?
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 21 2004, 07:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 21 2004, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If he cares so much about what people think about him why would he make posts like this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    When someone admits they are <i>so</i> self-obsessed with themselves that they would rather hide or kill themselves rather then to be <b>percieved</b> as ugly or defective... it has everything to do with what he thinks people think about him.

    I'm not a psychologist but that is how I see it...
  • kidakida Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
    We all grow old and wrinkly.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Fantasmo+Oct 21 2004, 07:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Oct 21 2004, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 21 2004, 07:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 21 2004, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If he cares so much about what people think about him why would he make posts like this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    When someone admits they are <i>so</i> self-obsessed with themselves that they would rather hide or kill themselves rather then to be <b>percieved</b> as ugly or defective... it has everything to do with what he thinks people think about him.

    I'm not a psychologist but that is how I see it... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Oh... you didn't get the joke... that's ok... I guess... It's nothing, don't worry about it.
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 21 2004, 07:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 21 2004, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh... you didn't get the joke... that's ok... I guess... It's nothing, don't worry about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    LoL, I so didn't get it Swift... sorry buddy...

    <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-supernorn2000+Oct 21 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Oct 21 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Should trolls be allowed to make threads?


    Dont feed the troll people. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But people are still feeding them...
  • Dr_LEE7Dr_LEE7 Join Date: 2004-10-15 Member: 32265Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-JHunz+Oct 21 2004, 03:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JHunz @ Oct 21 2004, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wish stupid people didn't have the confidence to post stupid threads <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    OMG I've never laughed this hard in a long time.
  • Dr_LEE7Dr_LEE7 Join Date: 2004-10-15 Member: 32265Banned
    <a href='http://search.shockwave.com/search/?sp-k=Shockwave%7CAtomFilms&site=af&sp-c=3000&sp-a=sp100190fc&sp-p=all&sp-q=titler&x=13&y=11' target='_blank'>Watch this movie</a>
    A PERFECT EXAMPLE of a funny moron who has confidence (I think).
  • relsanrelsan Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3720Members, Constellation
    Two things:

    1. How you view the world is not necessarily how others view it. People and things you judge to be unacceptable may not be so in the eyes of others or in fact in the eyes of the majority.

    2. It's very difficult to change the minds of other people to your way of thinking. What is easier to do is change the way you yourself think.

    A good example that I can take from my life is traffic. Traffic used to be unacceptable to me. I used to wish I could just blow up all the cars on the road so I could get to where I was going. But I changed my way of thinking about traffic. Now I no longer let traffic bother me. Its still there but I accept it as it is. Since I've done this I've been a lot less stressed and my days are happier.

    There are a lot of people that I consider fat and/or ugly that have helped me tremendously in my life in a variety of ways. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't be the person I am today. I don't think there would be any benefit to hiding people away just because they are fat or ugly. Quite often such trival cosmetic details have absolutely nothing to do with most significant aspects of a person's life.
  • MelatoninMelatonin Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
    well, since there has been no lock yet...

    I think it was Russel who said
    "the problem with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
    Perhaps you have things the wrong way round, and its really those poor stupid people who deserve to be confident.

    when it comes to outward appearance and confidence however, it may be the case that your views are enforced upon people by cruel children and our lovely culture of mass marketing.
    wether or not ugly people <i>deserve</i> such treatment is another matter.. and one i dont really care to look too deeply into.
  • KesterKester Join Date: 2004-02-21 Member: 26770Members, Constellation
    Like Dukem, my looks mean alot to me, and I would say all of my friends are attractive people. I also agree that if i horrible disfigured in say a car accident, I would probably hide away. However if I was less attractive (damn how arrogant do i sound =]) I wouldn't hide away from society, I would live a normal life like I do now.

    What I gather your saying is, do ugly people have the right to be happy? Of course they do, attractiveness is not the only thing that should matter. I know alot of people who aren't stunning or even that attractive, I don't look down on them, I see them for the person they are.

    The only time where attractiveness plays a big part in people I know is my fiancee, to me she is the most beautiful person in the world, to others she might not be (here I would like to state that she is really attractive =]).

    Which is where I come to my point, like someone elses "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", meaning that although you see them as being less attractive, or below you, someone will see them as a beautiful person and their friend (if not more). This is where their happiness lies, knowing that people like them for who they are not how they look or how rich they are, more because they are a nice person and to me when I call someone beautiful I don't mean physical apperance, but more their personality and outlook on life. Personally after reading you points I see you as a very ugly person, maybe not you looks (you might be an attractive person) but you personallity seems to be lacking, which is a shame.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Oct 22 2004, 05:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Oct 22 2004, 05:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like Dukem, my looks mean alot to me, and I would say all of my friends are attractive people. I also agree that if i horrible disfigured in say a car accident, I would probably hide away. However if I was less attractive (damn how arrogant do i sound =]) I wouldn't hide away from society, I would live a normal life like I do now.

    What I gather your saying is, do ugly people have the right to be happy? Of course they do, attractiveness is not the only thing that should matter. I know alot of people who aren't stunning or even that attractive, I don't look down on them, I see them for the person they are.

    The only time where attractiveness plays a big part in people I know is my fiancee, to me she is the most beautiful person in the world, to others she might not be (here I would like to state that she is really attractive =]).

    Which is where I come to my point, like someone elses "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", meaning that although you see them as being less attractive, or below you, someone will see them as a beautiful person and their friend (if not more). This is where their happiness lies, knowing that people like them for who they are not how they look or how rich they are, more because they are a nice person and to me when I call someone beautiful I don't mean physical apperance, but more their personality and outlook on life. Personally after reading you points I see you as a very ugly person, maybe not you looks (you might be an attractive person) but you personallity seems to be lacking, which is a shame. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Kester, after a post like that you should really have a picture of yourself in your profile <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • KesterKester Join Date: 2004-02-21 Member: 26770Members, Constellation
    edited October 2004
    I'll try and find one then =] And I would like to point out at this moment, i'm not model attractive, far from it, but like i said my looks do mean alot to me.

    /edit some pics i found all over 2 years old though (some older than others). Need to get some recent ones.

    <a href='http://www.socalledpride.com/pictures/3yearsold.gif' target='_blank'>cake</a>
    <a href='http://www.socalledpride.com/pictures/eye.gif' target='_blank'>eye</a>
    <a href='http://www.socalledpride.com/pictures/sitting%20wit%20acoustic.JPG' target='_blank'>acoustic</a>

    Granted the second isnt really a picture, but it is me =].
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    Ugly and phat people should be gathered around in a concentration camp while working their butt off so beautiful well trimmed people like me can enjoy life!
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    While it had some people trying to save it, this remains a pretty obvious case of trolling. <span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>

    Nukem and crisano won't be able to join us in the future.
This discussion has been closed.