LoL. Well I like you Steve but I guess on this issue we are of contrasting opinions. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's cool, just don't tell me I have to change my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Oct 28 2004, 07:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Oct 28 2004, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah! You warned us! Damn combat -- only thing keeping half the player base coming back to NS -- damn it to hell!
CO is evil! I mean, its not like its more popular than Classic or anything -- its not like its the only reason some guys play NS.
Damn popular game modes that keep the game alive!
Thanks for warning us. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But that's the freaking problem. It's more popular then ns_ and alot of peopel don't care the least about playing co. I don't care at all how many people are playing co_ I only care about ns_ and the number of people playing ns_ is IMO much lower than it would have been if they had concentrated on ns_.
you guys have to remember that there are some humans that are just as happy throwing a ball around as they are playing CS. but to each thier own. belittling of the CO people isn't the way to go. While CO may be more devoid of strategy its far more fast pased than NS (usualy) and with that said, ive jumped on a few other pub ns servers and found that the genral population doesn't have a clue how to play amd/or isn't willing to listen and/or doesn't want to play as a team.
I was teaching a friend to play in CO. and he said this "This game is great, it'd be better if it had more strategy though like CS does." And I showed him how to bait and ambush and stuff.....
But I realy think that a newbie guide will help out alot.
I don't play classic much any more because I don't have the time to play for 2 hours before I get a good game. The stacking prevalent on many servers makes the game experience terrible, because the game can be predicted in the beginning of the game. Combat is quick, instant satisfaction, which I like. Don't swear at combat please, it's a great addition.
I think Combat does a good job being what it's supposed to be, but NS no longer does a good job being what it's supposed to be.
NS is a lot more crazier than it used to be. You're either getting owned in a split second or you forget what losing was all about. Back in 1.04, you could be losing and still put up a good fight.
Right now, I would have to say that Combat fares pretty darn well against NS, but older versions of NS Classic are superior to Combat, IMO.
Combat is fun to me cause, it really doesn't involve that much thinking, aside from waiting for mroe of your teammates to rush with, or group rush... It also doesn't require you to be very dependent upon other people, which is why in classic NS i usually end up playing Aliens if i don't know the comm. on marines.
Classic NS is fun for me cause it's an actual TEAM effort and can be very fun and more rewarding in the end. I loved the days of 6 hour stalemate games, or 6 hour games where marines were all based in with like 40 turrents delaying the inevitable and could sometimes come back and win.
Both are good, just depends on my mood for which I perfer at the moment, really.
<!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Oct 28 2004, 09:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Oct 28 2004, 09:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's just because it's different. Before combat was out, I played ns constantly for months on end... Then I started to get bored with it, and combat appeared - it was some thing new and different, and as said, it lets you play your own game instead of how some one dictates upon you. However, CO is starting to get dull and repetetive, and i'm finding classic more enjoyable again.
it just goes in circles :-) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Same here.
There has been one cry accompanying NS since the days of 1.0: "NS is dying!" Since the first announcements to that end, the call has received a companion: "Combat will kill NS!"
I honestly don't think anything we could ever do will rid us of both.
Natrual Selection has currently between 1000 and 2000 players on the servers on any given time. Beta 5 is in so far an improvement; it has increased our playerbase by estimatedly one to twohundred individuals at any given time. Sure, those numbers are dwarved by the commercially distributed HL mods, but if you compare them to 'ordinary' retail products, we're at respectable levels. So, NS is not dying.
"But only because you dumbed it down to admit the unwashed team DM - masses in! The <i>real</i> NS is long dead and you're dancing macarena on its grave!" - Check the numbers. 50% of NS' populated servers play Classic. It has been that way since Beta 2. NS: Classic won't go anywhere. It's true that Beta 5 included mostly combat-oriented changes. Combat had some real issues in B4, so we tried to take care of at least some of them along with the bugfixes. B6 will, predictably, put a significantly greater emphasis on Classic. No, we won't revolutionize the gamemode. All said and done we're at the end of 3.0's development cycle; it's unrealistic to expect, say, five new marine weapons at this point. But there are some changes to existing gameplay elements that we think will be significant enough to make Classic a lot more fun again. Combat is no danger to Classic. We do not ignore one gameplay mode over the other, we do not plan on 'dumbing' anything 'down'. If you are really convinced we did, I suggest you load 2.0's Steam install up again and take a close look at it. We're not going to stop supporting the Combat players, we're not going to stop supporting the Classic players. I can understand that you all have different ideas of where NS is supposed to go. I am fully OK with you voicing yours. But please stop prophesying the game's doom if your demands are not met. It only makes your opinion less credible.
I play classic for the long drawn out games, which are equal in every aspect but teamwork, too bad they dont happen that often, tech rush or fade ownage is basically how all pubs work
I really like that the NS Team has included both modes of NS.
Combat is great when you want to jump in and get to business without having to worry about whether you have a good commander or if your alient compadres are going to put down the hive or should you save your res for one.
It's also nice to be able to just jump in and play a less complicated game.
That said, NS Classic is a lot of fun when you get a good commander or when you have a dedicated alien team with devoted gorges. I'm a crappy fade/onos player, so I tend to gravitate towards the less expensive/more disposable alien types.
I like both modes of NS and don't think that either is better than the other. I have respect for how much effort it took to put Combat together and how difficult it is to balance them separately.
That said, Shazbot is a freaking machine when it comes to Combat. I hate playing against him... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You know what would be good, a Mode between Classic and Combat.
Classic gives too much power to certain players like commanders which affect the game a lot. On the alien side however, u certainly need a big number of your team to spare their 15res and build an RT with it (makes it 25 ress cause u need to go gorg) if they want to do something in the game like have the ress to go fade onos or even just survive marines attack's. What happens is, no one want to go gorg or even waist their ress on building chambers or rts, so every one just saves up their ress there until they have enough for something good like fade or something....
Combat gives 100% power to the player, so what happens is that players won't care anymore about team play or anything called "Team" because they are able to get a satisfying number of kills by themselves and also are able to get the weapon or form they want....
So what would be good is a Mode between these 2, like a mix or something
I admit it: I'm a co junky. I play far more co than ns. The problem is that, although ns can be enjoyable, I really only finding myself having fun when I'm playing with/against people I know. Where as in co I can just zone out and go on a mindless killing spree... so much killing...
don't listen to chimp he is nothing more than a poop tossing monkeh...
but I do know that the brainy side of NS is why I play, I am not a killer gamer by any stretch and half the fun of a game of NS for me is sneaking into a hive and converting it into a minefield. Sadly a lot of people play NS with the same mentality that they play counter-selection in, and that sadly doesn't work. I hope people play combat and enjoy it. but please play classic too and use more than just your mouse to play the game.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
combat burried classic. Combat is flayra's biggest mistake ever. Combat should burn.
No wait, combat is the 2nd biggest mistake. changing from 1.x to 2.x was the biggest one. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Serious, those games were fun, games are still fun now but less. And combat ruins the last bits.
I can live with the "mistake" (cause I doubt flayra agrees with me) that they switched from 1.x to 2.x, but the combat thingy is pure crap. Sure I like it, I play it. But it had to bury classic. If I look @ the xs4all servers I see a empty classic server and a full combat server. Combat is brainless shooting when we had such great matches.
Now NS has just become another game where ppl run around screaming, being dumb and do not work together. Its just, shoot, shoot, shoot, die, die some more and shoto again.
If I want to do that I got a thingy on CD called "half-Life". Even runs better on old comps.
<old man voice> I still remember the good old days when we had no electricity! you had to WORK and have SKILL and it would STILL be fun! you young kids of today are all brainless loobies who cant do anything except hit the light switch!
...
Is it just me or are the anti-co people a lot more loudmouthed(not to mention ridicolous, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone go "OMG ALL CO PALYERS ARE RETARDS I HOPE YOU GET CANCER AND DIEEEEE") than the anti-ns people(if there are any? Ive not seen a single person say classic is a bad idea.)?
<!--QuoteBegin-project_demon+Oct 28 2004, 04:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (project_demon @ Oct 28 2004, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes and not to mention all the noobs coming in right now... makes classic even suckier, Old classic games before B4 came out where kinda more fun cause every one knew the game perfectly and they knew what they were doing and what they are suppose to do (work as a team).Now however, it's practically impossible to get your team to work as a "Team", all you see is people ramboing around and getting owned (some even by gorgs...)
I don't want to get to the point of talking about commanders...just wana say 2 thing bout it now, -Less and less people (experienced) want to be com -more and more noobs are going com<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you have to start some were you were new to at one point <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If I ever feel impatient or I only have 15 minutes or so to spare, I play co_maps, but in my opinion, NS maps are much more rewarding (especially when everyone is working together). <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think its because of the lack of really cool new maps...and the slaughtering of others... (yea, you know what I'm talking about)
We need to get more official ns_ maps. Yea, co_ maps are easier to make and blah blah blah. Its easier to get started with a co_ map than ns_ map, because of the size and whatever. You have to be able to think about a lot more gameplay in ns_ maps than in co_ maps, and sometimes the mappers are just lazy (hey, don't worry, I'm lazy too! Heres the proof for my laziness: NSXP [going on a year now], ns_cleveland [map I've been workin since summer], writing music for some guy's game, working on new Magic deck, art work, etc.).
i dunno i do like combat a lot... but honestly the teamwork needed for ns maps are so much more fun if there is a lot of competition and its a long game going back and forth..
but then again..
it doesn't always happen that way <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OMG ALL CO PALYERS ARE RETARDS I HOPE YOU GET CANCER AND DIEEEEE!1oneelevenone1!
I like them both. co_ is fun for mindless killing, which I enjoy, because I solve my problems through violence and! I enjoy ns_ because the teamworkiness is fun. Well, if your team is working together, otherwise it's disconnect time...
I hate public games because of turrets. Since combat was released people spam turrets everywhere in classic. In 2.01 people had finally managed to learn that turrets are a surefire way to lose and then a new version which was basically the same, classic wise, came out and it's back to the turret spam. <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NS games seem to be shorter (usually around 10mins), more fun and you can even become upgraded fade faster than in combat :-) Therefore I play almost exclusively classic..
NS is way better IMO, because of the greater diversity (movable bases, buildable structures, etc...). Combat is just like a port of NS to CS - the worst thing to ever happen. The killing happens too quickly, people often play combat to the extent that they won't ever listen to what anyone says to them.
The nubs who play combat and dont listen to others wouldnt listen to others without combat either. They wouldnt be playing NS for that matter. It's not like co makes people retarded by playing it. To some extent it even lets people get better at NS, since there's more action, meaning your skill is pretty much forced to increase unless you're already better than the majority of the people on the server. And increased skill means increased effectiveness, even if it doesn't make you better at strategy or tactics.
remove/nerf all static defense except mines and oc's and fix the alien spawn & res system in large games and classic would be so much more fun.
one of the good things in co is that it has none of those problems.
co is good for practice, and that's what i use it for. or if its a small server i like to muck around with funny upgrades. cloak+adren+web gorge anyone? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Oct 30 2004, 12:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Oct 30 2004, 12:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hate public games because of turrets. Since combat was released people spam turrets everywhere in classic. In 2.01 people had finally managed to learn that turrets are a surefire way to lose and then a new version which was basically the same, classic wise, came out and it's back to the turret spam. <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> they had turret farms in 2.01 !! and that's even more worse than turret spam!
Comments
That's cool, just don't tell me I have to change my opinion.
CO is evil! I mean, its not like its more popular than Classic or anything -- its not like its the only reason some guys play NS.
Damn popular game modes that keep the game alive!
Thanks for warning us. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that's the freaking problem. It's more popular then ns_ and alot of peopel don't care the least about playing co. I don't care at all how many people are playing co_ I only care about ns_ and the number of people playing ns_ is IMO much lower than it would have been if they had concentrated on ns_.
I was teaching a friend to play in CO. and he said this "This game is great, it'd be better if it had more strategy though like CS does." And I showed him how to bait and ambush and stuff.....
But I realy think that a newbie guide will help out alot.
NS is a lot more crazier than it used to be. You're either getting owned in a split second or you forget what losing was all about. Back in 1.04, you could be losing and still put up a good fight.
Right now, I would have to say that Combat fares pretty darn well against NS, but older versions of NS Classic are superior to Combat, IMO.
I love NS as it is, I just wish there were more local servers running it. =[
Classic NS is fun for me cause it's an actual TEAM effort and can be very fun and more rewarding in the end. I loved the days of 6 hour stalemate games, or 6 hour games where marines were all based in with like 40 turrents delaying the inevitable and could sometimes come back and win.
Both are good, just depends on my mood for which I perfer at the moment, really.
it just goes in circles :-) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here.
There has been one cry accompanying NS since the days of 1.0: "NS is dying!"
Since the first announcements to that end, the call has received a companion: "Combat will kill NS!"
I honestly don't think anything we could ever do will rid us of both.
Natrual Selection has currently between 1000 and 2000 players on the servers on any given time. Beta 5 is in so far an improvement; it has increased our playerbase by estimatedly one to twohundred individuals at any given time. Sure, those numbers are dwarved by the commercially distributed HL mods, but if you compare them to 'ordinary' retail products, we're at respectable levels. So, NS is not dying.
"But only because you dumbed it down to admit the unwashed team DM - masses in! The <i>real</i> NS is long dead and you're dancing macarena on its grave!" - Check the numbers.
50% of NS' populated servers play Classic. It has been that way since Beta 2. NS: Classic won't go anywhere. It's true that Beta 5 included mostly combat-oriented changes. Combat had some real issues in B4, so we tried to take care of at least some of them along with the bugfixes. B6 will, predictably, put a significantly greater emphasis on Classic. No, we won't revolutionize the gamemode. All said and done we're at the end of 3.0's development cycle; it's unrealistic to expect, say, five new marine weapons at this point. But there are some changes to existing gameplay elements that we think will be significant enough to make Classic a lot more fun again.
Combat is no danger to Classic. We do not ignore one gameplay mode over the other, we do not plan on 'dumbing' anything 'down'. If you are really convinced we did, I suggest you load 2.0's Steam install up again and take a close look at it. We're not going to stop supporting the Combat players, we're not going to stop supporting the Classic players.
I can understand that you all have different ideas of where NS is supposed to go. I am fully OK with you voicing yours. But please stop prophesying the game's doom if your demands are not met. It only makes your opinion less credible.
Combat is great when you want to jump in and get to business without having to worry about whether you have a good commander or if your alient compadres are going to put down the hive or should you save your res for one.
It's also nice to be able to just jump in and play a less complicated game.
That said, NS Classic is a lot of fun when you get a good commander or when you have a dedicated alien team with devoted gorges. I'm a crappy fade/onos player, so I tend to gravitate towards the less expensive/more disposable alien types.
I like both modes of NS and don't think that either is better than the other. I have respect for how much effort it took to put Combat together and how difficult it is to balance them separately.
That said, Shazbot is a freaking machine when it comes to Combat. I hate playing against him... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Classic gives too much power to certain players like commanders which affect the game a lot. On the alien side however, u certainly need a big number of your team to spare their 15res and build an RT with it (makes it 25 ress cause u need to go gorg) if they want to do something in the game like have the ress to go fade onos or even just survive marines attack's. What happens is, no one want to go gorg or even waist their ress on building chambers or rts, so every one just saves up their ress there until they have enough for something good like fade or something....
Combat gives 100% power to the player, so what happens is that players won't care anymore about team play or anything called "Team" because they are able to get a satisfying number of kills by themselves and also are able to get the weapon or form they want....
So what would be good is a Mode between these 2, like a mix or something
but I do know that the brainy side of NS is why I play, I am not a killer gamer by any stretch and half the fun of a game of NS for me is sneaking into a hive and converting it into a minefield. Sadly a lot of people play NS with the same mentality that they play counter-selection in, and that sadly doesn't work. I hope people play combat and enjoy it. but please play classic too and use more than just your mouse to play the game.
TTFN
SM5
Happy BDay Fangs and Joev
No wait, combat is the 2nd biggest mistake. changing from 1.x to 2.x was the biggest one. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Serious, those games were fun, games are still fun now but less. And combat ruins the last bits.
I can live with the "mistake" (cause I doubt flayra agrees with me) that they switched from 1.x to 2.x, but the combat thingy is pure crap. Sure I like it, I play it. But it had to bury classic. If I look @ the xs4all servers I see a empty classic server and a full combat server. Combat is brainless shooting when we had such great matches.
Now NS has just become another game where ppl run around screaming, being dumb and do not work together. Its just, shoot, shoot, shoot, die, die some more and shoto again.
If I want to do that I got a thingy on CD called "half-Life". Even runs better on old comps.
...
Is it just me or are the anti-co people a lot more loudmouthed(not to mention ridicolous, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone go "OMG ALL CO PALYERS ARE RETARDS I HOPE YOU GET CANCER AND DIEEEEE") than the anti-ns people(if there are any? Ive not seen a single person say classic is a bad idea.)?
I don't want to get to the point of talking about commanders...just wana say 2 thing bout it now,
-Less and less people (experienced) want to be com
-more and more noobs are going com<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have to start some were you were new to at one point <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We need to get more official ns_ maps. Yea, co_ maps are easier to make and blah blah blah. Its easier to get started with a co_ map than ns_ map, because of the size and whatever. You have to be able to think about a lot more gameplay in ns_ maps than in co_ maps, and sometimes the mappers are just lazy (hey, don't worry, I'm lazy too! Heres the proof for my laziness: NSXP [going on a year now], ns_cleveland [map I've been workin since summer], writing music for some guy's game, working on new Magic deck, art work, etc.).
So yea....thats my dos pesos
but then again..
it doesn't always happen that way <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I like them both. co_ is fun for mindless killing, which I enjoy, because I solve my problems through violence and! I enjoy ns_ because the teamworkiness is fun. Well, if your team is working together, otherwise it's disconnect time...
look at my sig..
\/\/\/\/
Therefore I play almost exclusively classic..
To some extent it even lets people get better at NS, since there's more action, meaning your skill is pretty much forced to increase unless you're already better than the majority of the people on the server. And increased skill means increased effectiveness, even if it doesn't make you better at strategy or tactics.
one of the good things in co is that it has none of those problems.
co is good for practice, and that's what i use it for. or if its a small server i like to muck around with funny upgrades. cloak+adren+web gorge anyone? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
they had turret farms in 2.01 !! and that's even more worse than turret spam!