Illegal Brushes

BulletHead · October 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">Edges without opposite faces</div> True or false... these are IMPOSSIBLE to correct / avoid...

Cause I have a friggan SQUARE brush that serves as a wall that has been labled with this error... I have a LOT of errors like this (I think 7 last compile) and no way to fix em... re-shaping the brushes doesn't help <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

Any ideas?

MADMEE · October 2004

the problem will problably be easiest to see in vertex mode. try and fix it from there. if you carnt and its a simple square simply delete it and rebuild it.

False

BulletHead · October 2004

The problem is... when I fix and replace them... the NEW brush has the same error...

I'd almost say it's an issue with how Batch Compiler slices up the brushes of 90* angle walls... I should probably go thru and change all my 90* intersections to like, 45* huh...

Kester · October 2004

Well I would very much doubt it was BC, as BC does absolutly nothing to you map, it just tells the compile tools what to do. Are you doing any vertex manipulation on said brushes?

carioca · November 2004

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />
-use big grids, dont use grid in scale 1, you will get alot leaks and bad brushes.
-second use alt+p to check valid brushes
-try make more brushes to fit in the place, maybe trying something look right, but the compiler doesnt, so share in small brushes to take place of the trouble area.
-if need send to my gmail your map and i will help.

Anpheus · November 2004

You guys didnt read him. He said his brush is a square. Ergo: zero thickness.

Brushes <i>must</i> have at least 4 faces. A two 'sided' brush is a flat object that is only composed of as many vertices as it has sides. A quadrilateral (square) has only 4 vertices. A pentagon has 5, etc.

You cannot make flat brushes, the best you can do is to make a pyramid, that is, use the Spike tool. If you want a square, you put the four vertices in the area where the square is, and remember this is important, put the pyramid tip on the side opposite the texture. So if you start out with a spike that has the point facing up in the z axis, and you need it to point down, you have to invert the object in the z axis. It's kind of hard to explain.

I've already requested that the compile tools automatically recognize faces and possibly handle them. This may resolve other problems such as face splitting which often occurs due to the fact that everything ingame has depth causing improper connections, but when two polyhedra connect in a line there is absolutely no need to split either.

brute_force · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anpheus @ Nov 5 2004, 01:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Brushes <i>must</i> have at least 4 faces. A two 'sided' brush is a flat object that is only composed of as many vertices as it has sides. A quadrilateral (square) has only 4 vertices. A pentagon has 5, etc.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
You do mean it has to have atleast 5 faces, right? Can't imagine how a 4 sided brush would look... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Decimator · November 2004

Triangle pyramid, brute force.

brute_force · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Decimator @ Nov 5 2004, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Triangle pyramid, brute force.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Ahh, right. Sorry. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Kester · November 2004

I think he probably ment it is a cube, not a square.

Anpheus · November 2004

A square would give him the problem he describes. A square in Hammer would have only one face, and thus compiler would go EEGAD and die. :-(

BulletHead · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Nov 4 2004, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think he probably ment it is a cube, not a square.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
yeah, I meant cube <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

I'm stuuupid

Anpheus · November 2004

That's different.

What did you do to vertex-edit it?

Once_Only · November 2004

If it is just a cube that hasn't had its vertices moved in any way, then I have no idea why your getting this porblem. If you've moved some vertices, they may not be in line with their adjacents properly. What I mean is that when vertices on a face are not aligned, the brush will split, I've never seen an illeagal brush error, but in game I can see which brushes are invalid becase the faces with the error dont show up. I'll post a picture later.

Anpheus · November 2004

That's incorrect. The brush does not 'split.'

A plane, that is, a two dimensional surface, can be defined by 3 points. But when you have a square, such as the side of a cube, there are 4 vertices for that side on the cube. What happens when these 4 points do not all have the same properties (that they do not lie on the same plane.) Well, this means the vertices are not <i>coplanar</i>... if you were to make an equation that described the plane (two dimensional surface) that the four points resided on, you would have an empty set.

The solution is to manually split the cube so that the adjusted face is made of two triangles. Because triangles are made up of three points, it is <i>impossible</i> for the triangle's vertices not to be coplanar.

Bullet Head, in Hammer I want you to make a Vis Group of the problem brushes, and save the map. Then email it to me or upload it to a website. I will look at your brush.

Also, have you tried doing an Alt-P (Check for Problems) in Hammer? This would tell you if you have brushes with non-coplanar sides.

Jezpuh · November 2004

This may sound stupid, but have you tried alt + p yet?

Illegal Brushes

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