<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 30 2004, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 30 2004, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Took me like 5 minutes to find the rules, site doesn't work in firefox, but I found some good portions of the rules: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> => <a href='http://www.gamingorb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=727' target='_blank'>http://www.gamingorb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=727</a>
I will repeat here , <u>the rules arent writing yet</u> . A nationcup doesnt work like an european league ...
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 12:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 12:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only exploitable scripts are the _special scripts. Unless you know of others, in which case it still does not justify the removal of scripts in it's entirety. I mean it's like one guy commits murder and then you declare martial law. You remove the FEW scripts that are bad, and keep the hundreds that are good and fine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It actually doesn't sound as silly as you make it seem. Seeing as there could as well be a substantial amount of people exploiting scripts (_special or otherwise, and there are definetly other examples aside _special), you have to wonder if it is really worth it to you, just for that bit of 'convience'. I'd say quite blatently no, it is not.
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Oct 30 2004, 06:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Oct 30 2004, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 12:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 12:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only exploitable scripts are the _special scripts. Unless you know of others, in which case it still does not justify the removal of scripts in it's entirety. I mean it's like one guy commits murder and then you declare martial law. You remove the FEW scripts that are bad, and keep the hundreds that are good and fine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It actually doesn't sound as silly as you make it seem. Seeing as there could as well be a substantial amount of people exploiting scripts (_special or otherwise, and there are definetly other examples aside _special), you have to wonder if it is really worth it to you, just for that bit of 'convience'. I'd say quite blatently no, it is not. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are lying just to push your agenda. There are not exploitable scripts outside of _special scripts. Try me.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are lying just to push your agenda. There are not exploitable scripts outside of _special scripts. Try me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ofcourse the term 'exploitive' is fairly subjective, but it's safe to say pistol scripts are queer, and fade blink\swipe\blink scripts for example.
Reason why I find them exploitive, is because they offer more than just a simple 'convience', they offer an advantage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Oct 30 2004, 06:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Oct 30 2004, 06:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are lying just to push your agenda. There are not exploitable scripts outside of _special scripts. Try me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ofcourse the term 'exploitive' is fairly subjective, but it's safe to say pistol scripts are queer, and fade blink\swipe\blink scripts for example.
Reason why I find them exploitive, is because they offer more than just a simple 'convience', they offer an advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, from a purely objective standpoint;
i.e. you are only using scripts for any sort of possible advantage;
Pistol scripts waste your bullets at a faster rate. With a good mouse it's easy as hell to click at the maxROF of the pistol. Sometimes it's not good to fire more bullets than nessesary, which is what a typical pistol script does (or helps to do). Therefore it's giving you speed, but not control. Not abusive, as it can actually hurt your game. Wether or not you use the pistol script is your choice. (A _special pistol script is unfair however as it makes you fire the pistol like an LMG.)
Blink/Swipe scripts are stupid, and for the last time they are not used by one good fade. And by good, I mean GOOD good, everyone knows blink/swipe scripts are useless. (Or a good player would know they are useless)
So far you've yet to list an unfair normal script.
<!--QuoteBegin-deeluv+Oct 29 2004, 03:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (deeluv @ Oct 29 2004, 03:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> of course.
everyone can orga a nations cup and it have no madder who make or think at first.
so have fun in doing. it is nice to hear more leagues and cups and all in euro
to the post, that it is a lie that we contact all nations and agreement. sorry i edit: we contact and get agree: it, esp, ger, fi, fr, dk, swe, po
not all nations of course. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm curious, who exactly did you contact of the so called "german ns team"? Because there is a) currently no active ns team and b) the only one that could agree to such a thing (namely the active players of the old team) would never play in any tournament organized by you / your ns-game thing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 01:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 01:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Pistol scripts waste your bullets at a faster rate. With a good mouse it's easy as hell to click at the maxROF of the pistol. Sometimes it's not good to fire more bullets than nessesary, which is what a typical pistol script does (or helps to do). Therefore it's giving you speed, but not control. Not abusive, as it can actually hurt your game. Wether or not you use the pistol script is your choice. (A _special pistol script is unfair however as it makes you fire the pistol like an LMG.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quite wrong there. I've seen a friend use a script that allowed him to fire two bullets for every mouseclick he did. Yes this wastes your bullets at a faster rate, however, there are numerous examples where this leads a very big advantage indeed. A skulk in a vent for example, it peeks his nose around the corner for a split second to try and parasite you. Now with your new shiny pistol script you can empty your pistol clip in half the time than you'd normally need (assuming you're not hitting the ROF, but you will gain at least SOME speed). Being able to empty it faster, there comes the increased chance to kill that skulk before he even knew what hit him. In this particular example, the scripter does not suffer from bullet-wasting, since he can't really miss.
You can also train yourself to fire more accurate when forced to switch over to the pistol due to an empty LMG\SG\HMG, by simply not waving the thing around like a madman. If you master this decently, you are able to kill that skulk faster than you could with a single shot strategy, in which you are forced to spit those bullets out like mad, making it harder to stay accurate.
As for the blink script, can't say wether it will give an advantage, since haven't ever used it myself. But you can wonder why people will bother using it in the first place, i'm pretty sure certain players find it helpfull enough to use.
EDIT: Thinking about it, you can create 2 seperate attack buttons, 1 for the fast firing rate, and 1 for the default firing rate. The best of both worlds, now really, if that isn't an advantage...
I've decided to change my view on mp_blockscripts. I agree with how it works now. Using scripts with +commands is basically it playing the game for you.
<!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Oct 30 2004, 07:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Oct 30 2004, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> gofaster script <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A gofaster script eliminates your ability other than to move 38% faster. You can get killed very easily when you use this script. However, a _special version of the go faster script allows you to shoot and run faster.
Therefore the _special version is unfair, but the normal one is not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quite wrong there. I've seen a friend use a script that allowed him to fire two bullets for every mouseclick he did. Yes this wastes your bullets at a faster rate, however, there are numerous examples where this leads a very big advantage indeed. A skulk in a vent for example, it peeks his nose around the corner for a split second to try and parasite you. Now with your new shiny pistol script you can empty your pistol clip in half the time than you'd normally need (assuming you're not hitting the ROF, but you will gain at least SOME speed). Being able to empty it faster, there comes the increased chance to kill that skulk before he even knew what hit him. In this particular example, the scripter does not suffer from bullet-wasting, since he can't really miss.
You can also train yourself to fire more accurate when forced to switch over to the pistol due to an empty LMG\SG\HMG, by simply not waving the thing around like a madman. If you master this decently, you are able to kill that skulk faster than you could with a single shot strategy, in which you are forced to spit those bullets out like mad, making it harder to stay accurate.
As for the blink script, can't say wether it will give an advantage, since haven't ever used it myself. But you can wonder why people will bother using it in the first place, i'm pretty sure certain players find it helpfull enough to use.
EDIT: Thinking about it, you can create 2 seperate attack buttons, 1 for the fast firing rate, and 1 for the default firing rate. The best of both worlds, now really, if that isn't an advantage...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except you miss one important fact, and that is you don't know how the script actually works.
The second shot of the typical pistol script ONLY kicks in if you fire too slow. Therefore if you are firing slow that means you didn't want to fire it right away, assuming you already can fire at max speed, therefore making you waste a shot. Preference and speed vs. control.
Now, if you couldn't fire your pistol as fast as it goes, then yes the script would help you fire faster which is arguably better in proportion to good aim, I mean getting out your bullets is more important than hitting with 4, right, whereas you could fire 8 and hit with 6? However in the end this sort of improvement is useless because we both have the same cap, and the said player has no advantage over me as I can already fire as fast as possible with or without the script. For me, the script is there as a matter of keeping my timing consistant.
The main purpose of scripts is to do repetetive motions, I mean banning scripts in a LEAGUE, no less, is so stupid because I've already talked with a few players who have their macro's lined up or alternatives to bhopping or whatever.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 30 2004, 08:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 30 2004, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Oct 30 2004, 07:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Oct 30 2004, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> gofaster script <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A gofaster script eliminates your ability other than to move 38% faster. You can get killed very easily when you use this script. However, a _special version of the go faster script allows you to shoot and run faster.
Therefore the _special version is unfair, but the normal one is not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A marine running as fast as a skulk isn't abusive. Ok.
If we're using ingame examples then I could easily say "A marine uses a gofaster script from the start of the game. He uses it to run to a chokepoint on the map before the aliens can arrive there, he hears one of the aliens, stops using the script and kills it because the alien isn't expecting a marine, it knows it isn't normally possible for them to be there."
Oh and also, do you play NS? I know I do.
<!--QuoteBegin-http://natural-selection.org/faq.html+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://natural-selection.org/faq.html)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What are the essential competitive rules at least?</b> Here are the basics, as the NS team designed the game for:
1. Tournament mode on (mp_tournamentmode 1)
2. Teams of six (6v6). Each side plays both alien and marine at least once.
3. Play happens on official maps, on any that are widely considered to be balanced (ns_eclipse, ns_caged, ns_tanith, etc.)
<b>4. No plug-ins or add-ons should be required.
5. Console access disabled, and all tweaks allowed are in the out of game interface.</b>
6. Use of VALVe Anti-Cheat (VAC) or Cheating-Death (CD) whenever possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-http://natural-selection.org/faq.html+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://natural-selection.org/faq.html)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What console commands does the team view as exploits?</b> NS was meant to be played without the console. Any command or behavior that requires the console or a custom .cfg to operate is considered an exploit and won't be allowed in official competitive play, whenever enforceable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, I guess that stops the arguments about CD being a plug-in and that scripts aren't exploits <b>IN NS.</b>
Good one. Flayra was actively using the console while playing at the CPL.
He doens't want the console to be nessesary to play in order to make the game intuitive, but he does not condemn it. He just wants NS to be as simple as possible, he also thinks that every time you ban one exploitive script, he thinks another will be found and he really does not want to keep up with it, and therefore ban scripts. I told him that scripts didn't need to be banned and were actually helpful to gameplay. I showed him a few and taught him to bhop. Later he sent me an email after the CPL asking for the +3jump script.
That FAQ needs to be updated. Furthermore
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A marine running as fast as a skulk isn't abusive. Ok.
If we're using ingame examples then I could easily say "A marine uses a gofaster script from the start of the game. He uses it to run to a chokepoint on the map before the aliens can arrive there, he hears one of the aliens, stops using the script and kills it because the alien isn't expecting a marine, it knows it isn't normally possible for them to be there."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The skulk can bhop way faster than a marine can wigglewalk, and the said marine cannot attack while running real fast. And I do not know of one map that you could beat a skulk to a chokepoint before the marine could normally beat you. Second you can wigglewalk with your hands and get a 15% speed increase, good people can get like 20%.
It's hardly ever useful and I've never seen marines win because of that script. Good aim, tactics, and good commanding yeah, but no to the wigglewalk.
Next "no plugins" I agree with, and as you have noticed CD isn't a plugin, it's a hook that you use to prevent the use of other hooks.
Moreever, getting down to semantics:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. Console access disabled, and all tweaks allowed are in the out of game interface.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scripts are done out of the game and are tweaks, since they improve your ability to operate the game through better convience of your controls.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The second shot of the typical pistol script ONLY kicks in if you fire too slow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You won't hit the pistol firing rate cap buddy, arguable with a keyboard button you might, but with a mouse button, no. If you managed to do so however, Forlorn, i'd start to worry about my fingers.
A pistol script however, allows you to get the most out of your pistol's ROF cap, blatant advantage.
And I agree with Flayra's opinion in moomin's post, disable the console, and let the game overwrite config.cfg with ingame menu settings, and make it read-only.
[EDIT] I really don't understand what your problem is Forlorn, there are exploitive scripts, pistol scripts are exploitive scripts, and a dev has already claimed there are exploitive scripts out there we don't know of, now can you please stop bickering about every little thing posted here, and return on-topic PLEASE.
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Oct 31 2004, 09:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Oct 31 2004, 09:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The second shot of the typical pistol script ONLY kicks in if you fire too slow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You won't hit the pistol firing rate cap buddy, arguable with a keyboard button you might, but with a mouse button, no. If you managed to do so however, Forlorn, i'd start to worry about my fingers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I hit the RoF cap all the time. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Alkiller+Oct 31 2004, 03:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alkiller @ Oct 31 2004, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Oct 31 2004, 09:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Oct 31 2004, 09:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The second shot of the typical pistol script ONLY kicks in if you fire too slow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You won't hit the pistol firing rate cap buddy, arguable with a keyboard button you might, but with a mouse button, no. If you managed to do so however, Forlorn, i'd start to worry about my fingers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hit the RoF cap all the time. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> With mouse1? Start worrying about your fingers lad...
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 31 2004, 04:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 31 2004, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It should be possible. I can do it when I'm not actually aiming but hammering my mouse, but I have slow fingers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough, I could be considered as one those people that can't click rediculously fast. So for me a pistol script would be beneficial, which was my point.
Anyway, anyh0000w, can we stop ranting about scripting now...
<!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Oct 30 2004, 08:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Oct 30 2004, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-http://natural-selection.org/faq.html+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://natural-selection.org/faq.html)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What console commands does the team view as exploits?</b> NS was meant to be played without the console. Any command or behavior that requires the console or a custom .cfg to operate is considered an exploit and won't be allowed in official competitive play, whenever enforceable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If we study this part of the "rules", we can see that it says "Any command or behavior <b>that requires</b> the console or a custom .cfg to operate ..."
While certain scripts such as the "gofaster" one would by these rules be considered an exploit, scripts such as +3jump, pistolscripts and blink/swipe ones would not, since you can actually accomplish these things without a script, thus they do not <b>require</b> the use of a script and would not be considered an exploit.
This falls in line with what Zunni said a bit earlier on IRC:
[17:46] <^Zunni^> which is what I'm working on correcting.. (People comparring 3 jump to aimbotting)
And to be honest, saying someone is using an exploit is the same thing as saying they are cheating, which is on the level of aimbotting.
I'm a bit uncertain on the pistol scripts though, since to be honest only a very small minority can reach that cap. I can do it sometimes for some reason, but only for one burst.
I think that scripts may not be allowed in all competitions because those things are not fair and are not related to the gamer skill, a noob can BH and fire with is gun as fast as hell with scripts. Why Flayra included mp_blockscripts & consistency? To be used against cheating guys & scriptors, which are concidered has exploiting ns.
<!--QuoteBegin-LePtitCOn+Oct 31 2004, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LePtitCOn @ Oct 31 2004, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think that scripts may not be allowed in all competitions because those things are not fair and are not related to the gamer skill, a noob can BH and fire with is gun as fast as hell with scripts. Why Flayra included mp_blockscripts & consistency? To be used against cheating guys & scriptors, which are concidered has exploiting ns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You people don't read anything I post so it's pointless.
And btw hitting the max pistol ROF is a lot easier depending on your mouse, newer mouse's like a mx500 has a very small click so it's easy as hell to spam.
However, wait a min GUYS IT'S UNFAIR THAT I HAVE A MOUSE THAT CAN CLICK FASTER OGM BAN MOUSES
or that my mousewheel can spam a command 3 times faster than yours can
Or that I get 100 fps so my bhop happens faster, it's easier to track aliens, and I have a T3 college connection
Perhaps flayra should do fps_max 20 so even crappy computers can compete, rate 2000 so 56K's won't lag any worse than us, and lower the pistol ROF cap enough so that a dog could click a mouse at it's max speed.
The point here is that you can't level the gaming field, ever, in computer games. Scripts, believe it or not, actually level things out so people with worse equipment can compete easier.
BUT guys i know like that's so unfair, I mean it says so in the FAQ, therefore it must be true.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 06:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You people don't read anything I post so it's pointless.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't have to quote every post in a thread you know.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And btw hitting the max pistol ROF is a lot easier depending on your mouse, newer mouse's like a mx500 has a very small click so it's easy as hell to spam.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have used an MX510, which is similar to a 500, and NO I cannot hit the ROF cap of the pistol, sorry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, wait a min GUYS IT'S UNFAIR THAT I HAVE A MOUSE THAT CAN CLICK FASTER OGM BAN MOUSES
or that my mousewheel can spam a command 3 times faster than yours can
Or that I get 100 fps so my bhop happens faster, it's easier to track aliens, and I have a T3 college connection
Perhaps flayra should do fps_max 20 so even crappy computers can compete, rate 2000 so 56K's won't lag any worse than us, and lower the pistol ROF cap enough so that a dog could click a mouse at it's max speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It appears you are condemming this kind of additude, however:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The point here is that you can't level the gaming field, ever, in computer games. Scripts, believe it or not, actually level things out so people with worse equipment can compete easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Here you are promoting scripts for that exact reason, hypocricy?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BUT guys i know like that's so unfair, I mean it says so in the FAQ, therefore it must be true. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd rather listen to Flayra, or anyone else in the dev team for that matter, than to the biggest **** in the NS community, Mr. Forlorn.
Now seriously, since the descision is not in our hands, but rather in the GO's admin team, can we please stop derailing this thread.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 31 2004, 12:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2004, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The point here is that you can't level the gaming field, ever, in computer games. Scripts, believe it or not, actually level things out so people with worse equipment can compete easier. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I just cant understand people who think that way. Must be an american thing, <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
Discuss the matter on GO forums if you must, enough with molesting this topic.
<!--QuoteBegin-rennex+Oct 31 2004, 06:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex @ Oct 31 2004, 06:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Oct 31 2004, 01:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Oct 31 2004, 01:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Must be an american thing, <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What the hell does that have to do with anything?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am just observing things here, but the Americans are the only ones to whine about this so freaking badly.
It <b>ALMOST</b> sounds like desperation <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
MiddleTEAM-EU:hey , me and friends ll gather in cybercafe to play some nsgame , are you ok to come? ToPTEAM-US :ok no problem ... MiddleTEAM-EU:woo thx , they ll be proud to play with a great player like you ToPTEAM-US :héhéhé
Later ... ToPTEAM-US :WTH , why cant i use console?? MiddleTEAM-EU:woo sry , i forgot to notice that thing . They disalow using console to prevent exploits on computers . But you can config yours touch in game menu "keyboard" , look at me it s easy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ...
game starded..
MiddleTEAM-EU:hm , are you really bhopping , you have speed of a turtle ... MiddleTEAM-EU:lol , you ve leap but forgot to bite me hahahah MiddleTEAM-EU:omg , it seems your fade is one more time out of energy ...
marine round ...
MiddleTEAM-EU:your ROF with gun seems very slow <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> MiddleTEAM-EU:hey , your forget to crounch with your jump when this skulk bite you, you would easily dodge him ... MiddleTEAM-EU:you ve 2 hp and commanderdont notice it with one medpack msg , to bad <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ToPTEAM-US :WTH??!! this cyber sux! i cant use my great skill with my .cfg ... MiddleTEAM-EU:but you said scripts are not very important in a players skills ... maybe not? ToPTEAM-US :just wait for my next match when i will come back home.I will have ... MiddleTEAM-EU:better cpu? ToPTEAM-US :no... MiddleTEAM-EU:better graphix card? ToPTEAM-US :no... MiddleTEAM-EU:better mouse? ToPTEAM-US :no... MiddleTEAM-EU:better screen? ToPTEAM-US :no... MiddleTEAM-EU:better connection rate? ToPTEAM-US :NO... MiddleTEAM-EU:better what?? ToPTEAM-US :better ... better SKILLS.cfg!
well , after this short story , my point of view . mp_bs 1 is not perfect ... But we are mature people , and if a league say "script not allowed" there no raison to talking (whining ) about it and play the league without any script (even they pass througt it). you dislike bs 1 , well for you , then you ll not play the league , that s all ...
ps : forlorn who are you? you seem to be very important in ns communauty ...
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Oct 31 2004, 02:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Oct 31 2004, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-rennex+Oct 31 2004, 06:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex @ Oct 31 2004, 06:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Oct 31 2004, 01:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Oct 31 2004, 01:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Must be an american thing, <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What the hell does that have to do with anything?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am just observing things here, but the Americans are the only ones to whine about this so freaking badly.
It <b>ALMOST</b> sounds like desperation <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> blockscripts on = no one scripts, group of people annoyed
blockscripts off = a person can either choose to use scripts or choose not to, gotta love freedom right?
So I can call europeans fascist because they seem bent on imposing their anti-script views on everyone? Seems fair.
Frankly I don't care about blockscripts, I get by fine without my pistol script but it seems silly to start generalizing about a whole nation of players.
Comments
=> <a href='http://www.gamingorb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=727' target='_blank'>http://www.gamingorb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=727</a>
I will repeat here , <u>the rules arent writing yet</u> . A nationcup doesnt work like an european league ...
It actually doesn't sound as silly as you make it seem. Seeing as there could as well be a substantial amount of people exploiting scripts (_special or otherwise, and there are definetly other examples aside _special), you have to wonder if it is really worth it to you, just for that bit of 'convience'. I'd say quite blatently no, it is not.
It actually doesn't sound as silly as you make it seem. Seeing as there could as well be a substantial amount of people exploiting scripts (_special or otherwise, and there are definetly other examples aside _special), you have to wonder if it is really worth it to you, just for that bit of 'convience'. I'd say quite blatently no, it is not. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are lying just to push your agenda. There are not exploitable scripts outside of _special scripts. Try me.
Ofcourse the term 'exploitive' is fairly subjective, but it's safe to say pistol scripts are queer, and fade blink\swipe\blink scripts for example.
Reason why I find them exploitive, is because they offer more than just a simple 'convience', they offer an advantage.
Ofcourse the term 'exploitive' is fairly subjective, but it's safe to say pistol scripts are queer, and fade blink\swipe\blink scripts for example.
Reason why I find them exploitive, is because they offer more than just a simple 'convience', they offer an advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, from a purely objective standpoint;
i.e. you are only using scripts for any sort of possible advantage;
Pistol scripts waste your bullets at a faster rate. With a good mouse it's easy as hell to click at the maxROF of the pistol. Sometimes it's not good to fire more bullets than nessesary, which is what a typical pistol script does (or helps to do). Therefore it's giving you speed, but not control. Not abusive, as it can actually hurt your game. Wether or not you use the pistol script is your choice. (A _special pistol script is unfair however as it makes you fire the pistol like an LMG.)
Blink/Swipe scripts are stupid, and for the last time they are not used by one good fade. And by good, I mean GOOD good, everyone knows blink/swipe scripts are useless. (Or a good player would know they are useless)
So far you've yet to list an unfair normal script.
everyone can orga a nations cup and it have no madder who make or think at first.
so have fun in doing. it is nice to hear more leagues and cups and all in euro
to the post, that it is a lie that we contact all nations and agreement.
sorry i edit:
we contact and get agree: it, esp, ger, fi, fr, dk, swe, po
not all nations of course. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm curious, who exactly did you contact of the so called "german ns team"? Because there is a) currently no active ns team and b) the only one that could agree to such a thing (namely the active players of the old team) would never play in any tournament organized by you / your ns-game thing.
Quite wrong there. I've seen a friend use a script that allowed him to fire two bullets for every mouseclick he did. Yes this wastes your bullets at a faster rate, however, there are numerous examples where this leads a very big advantage indeed. A skulk in a vent for example, it peeks his nose around the corner for a split second to try and parasite you. Now with your new shiny pistol script you can empty your pistol clip in half the time than you'd normally need (assuming you're not hitting the ROF, but you will gain at least SOME speed). Being able to empty it faster, there comes the increased chance to kill that skulk before he even knew what hit him. In this particular example, the scripter does not suffer from bullet-wasting, since he can't really miss.
You can also train yourself to fire more accurate when forced to switch over to the pistol due to an empty LMG\SG\HMG, by simply not waving the thing around like a madman. If you master this decently, you are able to kill that skulk faster than you could with a single shot strategy, in which you are forced to spit those bullets out like mad, making it harder to stay accurate.
As for the blink script, can't say wether it will give an advantage, since haven't ever used it myself. But you can wonder why people will bother using it in the first place, i'm pretty sure certain players find it helpfull enough to use.
EDIT: Thinking about it, you can create 2 seperate attack buttons, 1 for the fast firing rate, and 1 for the default firing rate. The best of both worlds, now really, if that isn't an advantage...
Using scripts with +commands is basically it playing the game for you.
A gofaster script eliminates your ability other than to move 38% faster. You can get killed very easily when you use this script. However, a _special version of the go faster script allows you to shoot and run faster.
Therefore the _special version is unfair, but the normal one is not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quite wrong there. I've seen a friend use a script that allowed him to fire two bullets for every mouseclick he did. Yes this wastes your bullets at a faster rate, however, there are numerous examples where this leads a very big advantage indeed. A skulk in a vent for example, it peeks his nose around the corner for a split second to try and parasite you. Now with your new shiny pistol script you can empty your pistol clip in half the time than you'd normally need (assuming you're not hitting the ROF, but you will gain at least SOME speed). Being able to empty it faster, there comes the increased chance to kill that skulk before he even knew what hit him. In this particular example, the scripter does not suffer from bullet-wasting, since he can't really miss.
You can also train yourself to fire more accurate when forced to switch over to the pistol due to an empty LMG\SG\HMG, by simply not waving the thing around like a madman. If you master this decently, you are able to kill that skulk faster than you could with a single shot strategy, in which you are forced to spit those bullets out like mad, making it harder to stay accurate.
As for the blink script, can't say wether it will give an advantage, since haven't ever used it myself. But you can wonder why people will bother using it in the first place, i'm pretty sure certain players find it helpfull enough to use.
EDIT: Thinking about it, you can create 2 seperate attack buttons, 1 for the fast firing rate, and 1 for the default firing rate. The best of both worlds, now really, if that isn't an advantage...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except you miss one important fact, and that is you don't know how the script actually works.
The second shot of the typical pistol script ONLY kicks in if you fire too slow. Therefore if you are firing slow that means you didn't want to fire it right away, assuming you already can fire at max speed, therefore making you waste a shot. Preference and speed vs. control.
Now, if you couldn't fire your pistol as fast as it goes, then yes the script would help you fire faster which is arguably better in proportion to good aim, I mean getting out your bullets is more important than hitting with 4, right, whereas you could fire 8 and hit with 6? However in the end this sort of improvement is useless because we both have the same cap, and the said player has no advantage over me as I can already fire as fast as possible with or without the script. For me, the script is there as a matter of keeping my timing consistant.
The main purpose of scripts is to do repetetive motions, I mean banning scripts in a LEAGUE, no less, is so stupid because I've already talked with a few players who have their macro's lined up or alternatives to bhopping or whatever.
Anyhow still waiting for that abusive script
A gofaster script eliminates your ability other than to move 38% faster. You can get killed very easily when you use this script. However, a _special version of the go faster script allows you to shoot and run faster.
Therefore the _special version is unfair, but the normal one is not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A marine running as fast as a skulk isn't abusive. Ok.
If we're using ingame examples then I could easily say "A marine uses a gofaster script from the start of the game. He uses it to run to a chokepoint on the map before the aliens can arrive there, he hears one of the aliens, stops using the script and kills it because the alien isn't expecting a marine, it knows it isn't normally possible for them to be there."
Oh and also, do you play NS? I know I do.
<!--QuoteBegin-http://natural-selection.org/faq.html+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://natural-selection.org/faq.html)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What are the essential competitive rules at least?</b>
Here are the basics, as the NS team designed the game for:
1. Tournament mode on (mp_tournamentmode 1)
2. Teams of six (6v6). Each side plays both alien and marine at least once.
3. Play happens on official maps, on any that are widely considered to be balanced (ns_eclipse, ns_caged, ns_tanith, etc.)
<b>4. No plug-ins or add-ons should be required.
5. Console access disabled, and all tweaks allowed are in the out of game interface.</b>
6. Use of VALVe Anti-Cheat (VAC) or Cheating-Death (CD) whenever possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-http://natural-selection.org/faq.html+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://natural-selection.org/faq.html)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>What console commands does the team view as exploits?</b>
NS was meant to be played without the console. Any command or behavior that requires the console or a custom .cfg to operate is considered an exploit and won't be allowed in official competitive play, whenever enforceable.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, I guess that stops the arguments about CD being a plug-in and that scripts aren't exploits <b>IN NS.</b>
He doens't want the console to be nessesary to play in order to make the game intuitive, but he does not condemn it. He just wants NS to be as simple as possible, he also thinks that every time you ban one exploitive script, he thinks another will be found and he really does not want to keep up with it, and therefore ban scripts. I told him that scripts didn't need to be banned and were actually helpful to gameplay. I showed him a few and taught him to bhop. Later he sent me an email after the CPL asking for the +3jump script.
That FAQ needs to be updated. Furthermore
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A marine running as fast as a skulk isn't abusive. Ok.
If we're using ingame examples then I could easily say "A marine uses a gofaster script from the start of the game. He uses it to run to a chokepoint on the map before the aliens can arrive there, he hears one of the aliens, stops using the script and kills it because the alien isn't expecting a marine, it knows it isn't normally possible for them to be there."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The skulk can bhop way faster than a marine can wigglewalk, and the said marine cannot attack while running real fast. And I do not know of one map that you could beat a skulk to a chokepoint before the marine could normally beat you. Second you can wigglewalk with your hands and get a 15% speed increase, good people can get like 20%.
It's hardly ever useful and I've never seen marines win because of that script. Good aim, tactics, and good commanding yeah, but no to the wigglewalk.
Next "no plugins" I agree with, and as you have noticed CD isn't a plugin, it's a hook that you use to prevent the use of other hooks.
Moreever, getting down to semantics:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. Console access disabled, and all tweaks allowed are in the out of game interface.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scripts are done out of the game and are tweaks, since they improve your ability to operate the game through better convience of your controls.
You won't hit the pistol firing rate cap buddy, arguable with a keyboard button you might, but with a mouse button, no. If you managed to do so however, Forlorn, i'd start to worry about my fingers.
A pistol script however, allows you to get the most out of your pistol's ROF cap, blatant advantage.
And I agree with Flayra's opinion in moomin's post, disable the console, and let the game overwrite config.cfg with ingame menu settings, and make it read-only.
[EDIT] I really don't understand what your problem is Forlorn, there are exploitive scripts, pistol scripts are exploitive scripts, and a dev has already claimed there are exploitive scripts out there we don't know of, now can you please stop bickering about every little thing posted here, and return on-topic PLEASE.
You won't hit the pistol firing rate cap buddy, arguable with a keyboard button you might, but with a mouse button, no. If you managed to do so however, Forlorn, i'd start to worry about my fingers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hit the RoF cap all the time. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You won't hit the pistol firing rate cap buddy, arguable with a keyboard button you might, but with a mouse button, no. If you managed to do so however, Forlorn, i'd start to worry about my fingers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hit the RoF cap all the time. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
With mouse1? Start worrying about your fingers lad...
Fair enough, I could be considered as one those people that can't click rediculously fast. So for me a pistol script would be beneficial, which was my point.
Anyway, anyh0000w, can we stop ranting about scripting now...
NS was meant to be played without the console. Any command or behavior that requires the console or a custom .cfg to operate is considered an exploit and won't be allowed in official competitive play, whenever enforceable.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we study this part of the "rules", we can see that it says "Any command or behavior <b>that requires</b> the console or a custom .cfg to operate ..."
While certain scripts such as the "gofaster" one would by these rules be considered an exploit, scripts such as +3jump, pistolscripts and blink/swipe ones would not, since you can actually accomplish these things without a script, thus they do not <b>require</b> the use of a script and would not be considered an exploit.
This falls in line with what Zunni said a bit earlier on IRC:
[17:46] <^Zunni^> which is what I'm working on correcting.. (People comparring 3 jump to aimbotting)
And to be honest, saying someone is using an exploit is the same thing as saying they are cheating, which is on the level of aimbotting.
I'm a bit uncertain on the pistol scripts though, since to be honest only a very small minority can reach that cap. I can do it sometimes for some reason, but only for one burst.
You people don't read anything I post so it's pointless.
And btw hitting the max pistol ROF is a lot easier depending on your mouse, newer mouse's like a mx500 has a very small click so it's easy as hell to spam.
However, wait a min GUYS IT'S UNFAIR THAT I HAVE A MOUSE THAT CAN CLICK FASTER OGM BAN MOUSES
or that my mousewheel can spam a command 3 times faster than yours can
Or that I get 100 fps so my bhop happens faster, it's easier to track aliens, and I have a T3 college connection
Perhaps flayra should do fps_max 20 so even crappy computers can compete, rate 2000 so 56K's won't lag any worse than us, and lower the pistol ROF cap enough so that a dog could click a mouse at it's max speed.
The point here is that you can't level the gaming field, ever, in computer games. Scripts, believe it or not, actually level things out so people with worse equipment can compete easier.
BUT guys i know like that's so unfair, I mean it says so in the FAQ, therefore it must be true.
You don't have to quote every post in a thread you know.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And btw hitting the max pistol ROF is a lot easier depending on your mouse, newer mouse's like a mx500 has a very small click so it's easy as hell to spam.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have used an MX510, which is similar to a 500, and NO I cannot hit the ROF cap of the pistol, sorry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, wait a min GUYS IT'S UNFAIR THAT I HAVE A MOUSE THAT CAN CLICK FASTER OGM BAN MOUSES
or that my mousewheel can spam a command 3 times faster than yours can
Or that I get 100 fps so my bhop happens faster, it's easier to track aliens, and I have a T3 college connection
Perhaps flayra should do fps_max 20 so even crappy computers can compete, rate 2000 so 56K's won't lag any worse than us, and lower the pistol ROF cap enough so that a dog could click a mouse at it's max speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It appears you are condemming this kind of additude, however:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The point here is that you can't level the gaming field, ever, in computer games. Scripts, believe it or not, actually level things out so people with worse equipment can compete easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here you are promoting scripts for that exact reason, hypocricy?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BUT guys i know like that's so unfair, I mean it says so in the FAQ, therefore it must be true. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather listen to Flayra, or anyone else in the dev team for that matter, than to the biggest **** in the NS community, Mr. Forlorn.
Now seriously, since the descision is not in our hands, but rather in the GO's admin team, can we please stop derailing this thread.
I just cant understand people who think that way. Must be an american thing, <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
Discuss the matter on GO forums if you must, enough with molesting this topic.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell does that have to do with anything?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am just observing things here, but the Americans are the only ones to whine about this so freaking badly.
It <b>ALMOST</b> sounds like desperation <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ToPTEAM-US :ok no problem ...
MiddleTEAM-EU:woo thx , they ll be proud to play with a great player like you
ToPTEAM-US :héhéhé
Later ...
ToPTEAM-US :WTH , why cant i use console??
MiddleTEAM-EU:woo sry , i forgot to notice that thing . They disalow using console to prevent exploits on computers . But you can config yours touch in game menu "keyboard" , look at me it s easy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
...
game starded..
MiddleTEAM-EU:hm , are you really bhopping , you have speed of a turtle ...
MiddleTEAM-EU:lol , you ve leap but forgot to bite me hahahah
MiddleTEAM-EU:omg , it seems your fade is one more time out of energy ...
marine round ...
MiddleTEAM-EU:your ROF with gun seems very slow <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
MiddleTEAM-EU:hey , your forget to crounch with your jump when this skulk bite you, you would easily dodge him ...
MiddleTEAM-EU:you ve 2 hp and commanderdont notice it with one medpack msg , to bad <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ToPTEAM-US :WTH??!! this cyber sux! i cant use my great skill with my .cfg ...
MiddleTEAM-EU:but you said scripts are not very important in a players skills ... maybe not?
ToPTEAM-US :just wait for my next match when i will come back home.I will have ...
MiddleTEAM-EU:better cpu?
ToPTEAM-US :no...
MiddleTEAM-EU:better graphix card?
ToPTEAM-US :no...
MiddleTEAM-EU:better mouse?
ToPTEAM-US :no...
MiddleTEAM-EU:better screen?
ToPTEAM-US :no...
MiddleTEAM-EU:better connection rate?
ToPTEAM-US :NO...
MiddleTEAM-EU:better what??
ToPTEAM-US :better ... better SKILLS.cfg!
well , after this short story , my point of view . mp_bs 1 is not perfect ... But we are mature people , and if a league say "script not allowed" there no raison to talking (whining ) about it and play the league without any script (even they pass througt it).
you dislike bs 1 , well for you , then you ll not play the league , that s all ...
ps : forlorn who are you? you seem to be very important in ns communauty ...
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What the hell does that have to do with anything?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am just observing things here, but the Americans are the only ones to whine about this so freaking badly.
It <b>ALMOST</b> sounds like desperation <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
blockscripts on = no one scripts, group of people annoyed
blockscripts off = a person can either choose to use scripts or choose not to, gotta love freedom right?
So I can call europeans fascist because they seem bent on imposing their anti-script views on everyone? Seems fair.
Frankly I don't care about blockscripts, I get by fine without my pistol script but it seems silly to start generalizing about a whole nation of players.