Nothing wrong with UT2K4, there's another great engine too. To be honest the only reason of why the devs should use the source is that it will probably be used by most people due to HL2. Other than that I can't see any more reasons... Oh yah not having to relearn everything might help too but shouldn't matter to an experienced dev.
<!--QuoteBegin-Brimstone+Oct 24 2004, 01:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brimstone @ Oct 24 2004, 01:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact that CS:Source isn't using the full potential has me drooling for HL2... My son and I played soccer last night with watermelons in cs_italy and rolled tires down the tunnel hill in dust2... there was more. The gameplay was extremely stable, as smooth as CS ever was- and that was from basically a three-day job of porting the code from HL to Source... Yah, the models and maps had to have taken longer, but Valve has done it again. I kept getting owned just looking around. Talk about atmosphere- you can see dust motes floating in the sunbeams coming in the new dome roof in that center hallway in dust2... and if a skulk dropped off the roof, I'd probably pee myself... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I love NS- I think it's one of the most innovative mods ever, especially in terms of the RTS/FPS blend... but even so I'll be moving on to other things if it's not ported to Source. I imagine I won't be the only one. The HL1 engine is dead... And to the devs, if there was an NS:Source, I would happily plunk down $$ for two copies... And one more comment: <!--QuoteBegin-theclam Oct 23 2004+ 02:03 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam Oct 23 2004 @ 02:03 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...while you run across a plain with AI comrades...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That being the key to the Doom3/Quake4 engine... <i>there's no multiplayer to speak of</i>... NS with four players would suck. Source is at least as pretty, and it has multiplayer. Its not a hard choice... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sigh. Old disinformation about the Doom 3 engine. The engine is not limited to 4 players. That's just for D3 deathmatch, and plugins for more slots have been available since the first week after release.
Maybe you should get informed before you spread FUD so you can promote your hackeriffic game.
i'm very excited to see what can be done with source..
i purchased the 'gold' version, and immediatly started playing cs:cz... forget CS:S... alot of the maps and functions of the game are more similar to cs:cz than regular cs...
my favorite thing dealing with physics, is to walk up to a bottle, whip out my knife, and slash it... if it's plastic, it flies across the room, if it's glass, it breaks...
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..
you will have no idea the joy you experiance when you toss a grenade into a pile of junk *just* to see it all fly around the room because of the explosion.
Q4 has a singleplayer focus as well. The D3 engine renders beautifully... but the netcode is utter crap for netplay, it was one of the sacrifices they made for the rendering powers- and intentionally. Unreal 2kx would probably make for a good base, but they'd have to start from scratch still- code and modelwise. A best bet if they really wanted to go commercial and independent would be to slap down $500 for the Torque Shader Engine... but they'd still have to start from scratch. The smart thing to do would be to get NS to the official mod status by going Source- then they can port it and save time and effort, and still have a great engine graphic- and gameplay-wise, continue building a player base, then pop out NS2 on whatever engine. What the dev team really needs is to run a poll to see what their market wants: identify what percents will:<ul><li>Quit playing soon if theres no upgrade</li><li>Still play with no upgrade, but eventually lose interest</li><li>Stay with HL, no matter what</li><li>etc, etc...</li></ul>Remember the ultimate goal of the dev team is to make a little something back for their work by going commercial, and continue with new projects... and the blunt truth is that they aren't going to get $30+ a copy for a game in the HL1 engine... not with expectations being what they are today... and I think I understand how they feel about their work better than most, having done game mods myself...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->my favorite thing dealing with physics, is to walk up to a bottle, whip out my knife, and slash it... if it's plastic, it flies across the room, if it's glass, it breaks...
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme
<!--QuoteBegin-Jas0+Oct 24 2004, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jas0 @ Oct 24 2004, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Delarosa Oct 24 2004+ 01:57 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa Oct 24 2004 @ 01:57 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->my favorite thing dealing with physics, is to walk up to a bottle, whip out my knife, and slash it... if it's plastic, it flies across the room, if it's glass, it breaks...
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Del, if that's your favorite thing, you need to play watermelon soccer on cs_italy... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> CS:S doesn't really have the level of interctive environment that HL2 is supposed to have, but I'm sure there is room for expansion before it hampers multiplayer gameplay. What I'm suggesting (or hoping for) is adding a level of graphic intensity to a mod with great gameplay. Its for details enhancing the player's immersion in the game. It's the mental picture I have of an onos charging through a cargo area, smashing crates to the side by sheer force... sheer brown-trousers time... The rubble or other objects in the map don't have to be bottles and buckets- they could be anything- chairs, crates, computers- whether as victims of stray shots or bites to uses like making barricades to hamper the enemy or more- new tactics and enhanced gameplay...
Supposedly, ns is supposed to be added to the default list of steam games, which will be great so we no longer have to hunt for updates. If/When they convert ns to source, they should try and see if valve would allow them to charge $5 a copy through steam (ofcourse you would need to own source already). Valve would make a profit since it would add to the hl2 package, along with the ns team with $5 a copy sold. I for one would buy a copy without a doubt.
Since CS:S is the "default" multiplayer of HL2, I wonder if at later dates and patches, they will release other "tech demo" style mods as they did with HL1. Such as Deathmatch Classic, Ricochet and so on. I know these weren't the most popular mods for HL1, but the variety would be nice and with a new engine you just never know when they will hit the nail on the head and come up with a really fun idea.
I believe the reason of why you can't interract with objects to probably the much higher grade availble in HL2 SP is simply because it would require too much off both the clients and servers. I know for sure PK had lots of problem getting Havok to work good with multiplayer.
<!--QuoteBegin-Brimstone+Oct 25 2004, 12:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brimstone @ Oct 25 2004, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->CS:S doesn't really have the level of interactive environment that HL2 is supposed to have, but I'm sure there is room for expansion before it hampers multiplayer gameplay<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't that what I said?
Having played CS:Source and actually thought a lot about what it could bring to NS I provide for you a list. This list will probably not be exhaustive and tell you everything NS2 (if on the HL engine blahdiblahblah) would have but I hope it gets your juices running.
*Yes I do understand that nothing about porting NS to HL2 is Dev confirmed*
As a mapper I'm probably gonna get most excited and make the most noise about that side of the gameplay, but as a mapper to me that's one of the most important parts. When I was playing NS source i noticed a few things that would be nice and would work well in NS maps. On almost every CS:S map there is movable (via shooting or impacting) 'stuff'; debris or miscellaneous paraphenalia like small boxes, barrels, bottles etc. As far as I can tell these are models with a more advanced gib sequence. For instance you can't stand on a barrel as it merely falls over and rolls away from you. I'm guessing that scenery that you can manipulate and stand on is in the coding, but I'm not sure how well it can be implemented in Multiplayer.
The bits and pieces of rubbish and litter you find spread around the level could be used in some really interesting ways for maps. For instance imagine a huge room with two walkways on different tiers. From the upper walkway you can see that a huge fan is blowing across the lower, that has had its handrails ripped away by something. Your team tries walking across the lower level but the first two men get thrown off the walkway by the immense power of the trigger_push. Suddenly someone notices a barrels of corrosive liquid on the other side of the upper walkway. You 'manipulate' these to the middle of the top tier, shoot off the railings nearest the huge fan and take a shotgun (maybe not a wise idea) to the barrels. They sail into the fans blades and are shredded, their contents continuing on down the fanshaft before melting its innards. The fan slows to a halt.
Example number two: A huge furnace is powering a section of the ship's light systems, but your team finds it barely staying alight. Some fuel drums lay nearby and the brightest spark in your team has pushed one next to the dying flames. Unholstering his trusty pistol, he lazily sticks a few holes in the drum's industrial-thick plating (yes, again probably a very bad idea, but hey) and a gentle spout of fuel dowses the flames back to life. Soon they become a roaring blaze and -one by one- the lights in the until-now dead section of the ship flicker and stabilise, bathing the corridors in a cool, blue light.
Next I come to the way objects can be hung from points or leashes in HL2. In the CS:S port of the much loved fy_iceworld a barrel hangs from a rope above the central buy zone. This barrel can be shot from side to side, left swaying or simply be shot from its bindings. Think about all the cargo bays in ns_maps with crates hanging from immobile mechanical claws. If those could be shot about you could shoot the box into a flying lerk effectively stopping him 'dead' (a still lerk is a dead lerk). Then again maybe you could move the claw along a bit and then shoot the crate down to block a vent exit. The possibilities seem endless. Of course there's nothing to stop some of these things happening in the current version of NS, they would just require heavily scripted sequences and use up more entities that they're worth. That and the fact that you'd have to limit them to maybe 1 per map (think Tanith's laser beam, but more detailed).
Playing yet another custom map I was astounded by how useful what I saw would be in NS maps. The bombsite was set on a central stone slab construction, which was suspended above a trigger_hurt with a huge drop. The bombsite consisted of two horizontal square slabs with a vertical pillar at each corner connecting the 'celing' and 'floor'. However, with some server settings tweaked and some serious drilling with an AK the pillars could be slowly but surely dislodged. This eventually led to the whole structure collapsing and tumbling earthward. Can you imagine a not so generic 'abandoned mine' map where you can shoot out the mineshaft supports to collapse a corridor. The uses for the HL2 engine (don't ask me about others, I have had but a brief introduction to Doom3, which is why I'm talking about NS2 on HL2) for the next incarnation of NS seem endless.
Perhaps the most innovative thing I saw was the use of modelmaps. When you look out of a window in any current NS map the most you can expect to see is a skybox. There are maps on the verge of release and tipped for the top which make very good use of external views of spaceships or heavy machinery models to enhance the atmosphere and inject a bit more realism. Mapping for NS must combine a good layout (to promote good gameplay) and a good atmosphere (to make the player believe he is in an -albeit fictional- environment). It is the latter that can be lacking in some NS maps, but should be made very much easier to enhance with the addition of a new technique.
When you see the skybox (the texture that's outside of the window) you could, for instance, see a 2D satellite dish painted on a semi-believable backdrop. In CS:S certain maps are surrounded by a 3D believable landscape. How? Well if you can play de_dust on CS:S go into spectator mode and do some exploring.On one side of the map you'll see some rolling hills, palm trees and a small pocket of Arabian architecture at its centre. This is a scaled-down model of what you see when you look at the skybox. Think of the scope for landscape modelling a Sci-Fi environment, like...um...NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I can't begin to think of what people could come up with to go with the background of an installation etc.
At the moment in my map's backstory I've crashlanded the dropship and the crew have to trek across barren terrain to reach the 'installation'. In NS2 I could have in the distance a distant dropship sleeping in the desert, its guts thrown out in a mechanical mess amongst rocks and craters... The dream's alive in my heart.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Jas0+Oct 24 2004, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jas0 @ Oct 24 2004, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->my favorite thing dealing with physics, is to walk up to a bottle, whip out my knife, and slash it... if it's plastic, it flies across the room, if it's glass, it breaks...
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Three words for you: Onos and structures. Imagine onos in base being a serious issue, as in it throws your structures across the room. It can blow a hole in the wall with Charge. Marines could pick up items lying around and throw them at skulks (I'd love to brick a skulk and kill it). The options are endless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nothing wrong with UT2K4, there's another great engine too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
theres nothing wrong with the engine besides the fact that the editor is like trying to solve pandoras box. unrealed 3.0 is the most complex editor i have ever seen, and you practically have to be a quantum mechanic to use it. i can make a box room with a light and a spawn at bestand thats for the original ut not 2k4.
<!--QuoteBegin-GiGaBiTe+Oct 25 2004, 01:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GiGaBiTe @ Oct 25 2004, 01:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> unrealed 3.0 is the most complex editor i have ever seen, and you practically have to be a quantum mechanic to use it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you seriously taking the ****? UnrealEd 3 is easier to learn than Hammer is.
For a start the texture tools are a *hell* of a lot easier to use, and the entire package in general is much smoother and cleaner than Hammer is. The only things that are relatively hard to do is using the in-game havok physics in relation to stuff like static meshes - and only because it involves a fair bit of coding.
I played NS from beta 1 to beta 4. I gave it up because, although it was a beautiful idea, the HL engine just can't realize the vision of it. There are too many things about the physics that need work. In spite of the fact that the developers have really made a silk purse out of a sow's ear, it still has some issues... At the time I said, "when they go to a new engine, I'll be back." This is still true. I'd love to play NS on a new engine.
As for which engine it should go to, its hard to say. I have not played any form of unreal, however, I have played Doom3 and HL2 (the old hacked version and CS:S). I can say that both of these looked wonderful, however, wouldn't it make the most sense to stick with the HL engine? Anyway...
I played NS from beta 1 to beta 4. I gave it up because, although it was a beautiful idea, the HL engine just can't realize the vision of it. There are too many things about the physics that need work. In spite of the fact that the developers have really made a silk purse out of a sow's ear, it still has some issues... At the time I said, "when they go to a new engine, I'll be back." This is still true. I'd love to play NS on a new engine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ive played since 1.04, and thats enough time in ns to realise that you are an idiot.
doom3 would suck for ns for the simple fact that doom3 is lame.
hl2 for ns would be awsome, flame throwers and all <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't understand why people even think Doom 3 is an <i>option</i>. Why would the devs (for a free game!) waste countless hours when there is a much less laggy, much more stable (and multiplayer proven) engine that will take a lot less work to port to...?
<!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj`+Oct 25 2004, 10:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj` @ Oct 25 2004, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Jas0+Oct 24 2004, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jas0 @ Oct 24 2004, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->my favorite thing dealing with physics, is to walk up to a bottle, whip out my knife, and slash it... if it's plastic, it flies across the room, if it's glass, it breaks...
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Three words for you: Onos and structures. Imagine onos in base being a serious issue, as in it throws your structures across the room. It can blow a hole in the wall with Charge. Marines could pick up items lying around and throw them at skulks (I'd love to brick a skulk and kill it). The options are endless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I'll start firing 8 LMG bullets at Skulks then throwing a brick at their head for comedy. Awesome!
<!--QuoteBegin-c0mpleX+Nov 2 2004, 02:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (c0mpleX @ Nov 2 2004, 02:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't understand why people even think Doom 3 is an <i>option</i>. Why would the devs (for a free game!) waste countless hours when there is a much less laggy, much more stable (and multiplayer proven) engine that will take a lot less work to port to...? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats an ignorant comment the i have no lag issues what so ever with the doom3 engine in multiplayer and considerings its going to be used for Quake4 remeber boys and girls Quake is what really started this online multiplayer thing its not really an issue.
Personally i feel Source engine is a let down its got nothing new and its late. The only thing i like about it is the fact you can shoot fruit and it breaks into peices <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In my opionon Doom3 engine has it all over source....
<!--QuoteBegin-kabab+Nov 2 2004, 10:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabab @ Nov 2 2004, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-c0mpleX+Nov 2 2004, 02:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (c0mpleX @ Nov 2 2004, 02:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't understand why people even think Doom 3 is an <i>option</i>. Why would the devs (for a free game!) waste countless hours when there is a much less laggy, much more stable (and multiplayer proven) engine that will take a lot less work to port to...? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats an ignorant comment the i have no lag issues what so ever with the doom3 engine in multiplayer and considerings its going to be used for Quake4 remeber boys and girls Quake is what really started this online multiplayer thing its not really an issue.
Personally i feel Source engine is a let down its got nothing new and its late. The only thing i like about it is the fact you can shoot fruit and it breaks into peices <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In my opionon Doom3 engine has it all over source.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you realize that porting a HL1 mod to HL2 is heaps easier than trying to do the same with Doom 3?
Yes and well i can't really argue that source is unfourtantly the logical choice for NS. I just personally feel the game would be that much better under Doom3 if you where going to start from scratch.
to be honest i think a onous being able to knock around buildings would be stupid
"protolab built" ( or any tech building ect) onous charges into spawn, knocking the protolab into some "pit" protolab lost
the obs has a nice little satellite that’s spinning on the top. the obs gets knocked over now the satellite’s jammed gg obs. It has now become inefficient in one simple “tap” because of a “bump” to any building would turn them upside-down/over/down a pit, would make the building useless instantly. And because of this it would favor the aliens a great deal – yes. More balance issues
getting ns, onto hl2, would still need Alot of work. Not just because of balance issues hl2 also really depends on the mappers; if they want to allow a onous to charge through a wall, or a rope thats slowly swaying over a pit of acid, or a generator that controls a “grid” of lights in the map
i know rag doll and other sick physics would be good, but any hl2 mod cannot be better then the map its played on.
Comments
I love NS- I think it's one of the most innovative mods ever, especially in terms of the RTS/FPS blend... but even so I'll be moving on to other things if it's not ported to Source. I imagine I won't be the only one. The HL1 engine is dead... And to the devs, if there was an NS:Source, I would happily plunk down $$ for two copies...
And one more comment:
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam Oct 23 2004+ 02:03 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam Oct 23 2004 @ 02:03 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...while you run across a plain with AI comrades...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That being the key to the Doom3/Quake4 engine... <i>there's no multiplayer to speak of</i>... NS with four players would suck. Source is at least as pretty, and it has multiplayer. Its not a hard choice... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sigh. Old disinformation about the Doom 3 engine. The engine is not limited to 4 players. That's just for D3 deathmatch, and plugins for more slots have been available since the first week after release.
Maybe you should get informed before you spread FUD so you can promote your hackeriffic game.
yay!
i purchased the 'gold' version, and immediatly started playing cs:cz... forget CS:S... alot of the maps and functions of the game are more similar to cs:cz than regular cs...
my favorite thing dealing with physics, is to walk up to a bottle, whip out my knife, and slash it... if it's plastic, it flies across the room, if it's glass, it breaks...
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..
you will have no idea the joy you experiance when you toss a grenade into a pile of junk *just* to see it all fly around the room because of the explosion.
What the dev team really needs is to run a poll to see what their market wants: identify what percents will:<ul><li>Quit playing soon if theres no upgrade</li><li>Still play with no upgrade, but eventually lose interest</li><li>Stay with HL, no matter what</li><li>etc, etc...</li></ul>Remember the ultimate goal of the dev team is to make a little something back for their work by going commercial, and continue with new projects... and the blunt truth is that they aren't going to get $30+ a copy for a game in the HL1 engine... not with expectations being what they are today... and I think I understand how they feel about their work better than most, having done game mods myself...
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Del, if that's your favorite thing, you need to play watermelon soccer on cs_italy... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CS:S doesn't really have the level of interctive environment that HL2 is supposed to have, but I'm sure there is room for expansion before it hampers multiplayer gameplay. What I'm suggesting (or hoping for) is adding a level of graphic intensity to a mod with great gameplay. Its for details enhancing the player's immersion in the game. It's the mental picture I have of an onos charging through a cargo area, smashing crates to the side by sheer force... sheer brown-trousers time...
The rubble or other objects in the map don't have to be bottles and buckets- they could be anything- chairs, crates, computers- whether as victims of stray shots or bites to uses like making barricades to hamper the enemy or more- new tactics and enhanced gameplay...
Isn't that what I said?
*Yes I do understand that nothing about porting NS to HL2 is Dev confirmed*
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As a mapper I'm probably gonna get most excited and make the most noise about that side of the gameplay, but as a mapper to me that's one of the most important parts. When I was playing NS source i noticed a few things that would be nice and would work well in NS maps. On almost every CS:S map there is movable (via shooting or impacting) 'stuff'; debris or miscellaneous paraphenalia like small boxes, barrels, bottles etc. As far as I can tell these are models with a more advanced gib sequence. For instance you can't stand on a barrel as it merely falls over and rolls away from you. I'm guessing that scenery that you can manipulate and stand on is in the coding, but I'm not sure how well it can be implemented in Multiplayer.
The bits and pieces of rubbish and litter you find spread around the level could be used in some really interesting ways for maps. For instance imagine a huge room with two walkways on different tiers. From the upper walkway you can see that a huge fan is blowing across the lower, that has had its handrails ripped away by something. Your team tries walking across the lower level but the first two men get thrown off the walkway by the immense power of the trigger_push. Suddenly someone notices a barrels of corrosive liquid on the other side of the upper walkway. You 'manipulate' these to the middle of the top tier, shoot off the railings nearest the huge fan and take a shotgun (maybe not a wise idea) to the barrels. They sail into the fans blades and are shredded, their contents continuing on down the fanshaft before melting its innards. The fan slows to a halt.
Example number two: A huge furnace is powering a section of the ship's light systems, but your team finds it barely staying alight. Some fuel drums lay nearby and the brightest spark in your team has pushed one next to the dying flames. Unholstering his trusty pistol, he lazily sticks a few holes in the drum's industrial-thick plating (yes, again probably a very bad idea, but hey) and a gentle spout of fuel dowses the flames back to life. Soon they become a roaring blaze and -one by one- the lights in the until-now dead section of the ship flicker and stabilise, bathing the corridors in a cool, blue light.
Next I come to the way objects can be hung from points or leashes in HL2. In the CS:S port of the much loved fy_iceworld a barrel hangs from a rope above the central buy zone. This barrel can be shot from side to side, left swaying or simply be shot from its bindings. Think about all the cargo bays in ns_maps with crates hanging from immobile mechanical claws. If those could be shot about you could shoot the box into a flying lerk effectively stopping him 'dead' (a still lerk is a dead lerk). Then again maybe you could move the claw along a bit and then shoot the crate down to block a vent exit. The possibilities seem endless. Of course there's nothing to stop some of these things happening in the current version of NS, they would just require heavily scripted sequences and use up more entities that they're worth. That and the fact that you'd have to limit them to maybe 1 per map (think Tanith's laser beam, but more detailed).
Playing yet another custom map I was astounded by how useful what I saw would be in NS maps. The bombsite was set on a central stone slab construction, which was suspended above a trigger_hurt with a huge drop. The bombsite consisted of two horizontal square slabs with a vertical pillar at each corner connecting the 'celing' and 'floor'. However, with some server settings tweaked and some serious drilling with an AK the pillars could be slowly but surely dislodged. This eventually led to the whole structure collapsing and tumbling earthward. Can you imagine a not so generic 'abandoned mine' map where you can shoot out the mineshaft supports to collapse a corridor. The uses for the HL2 engine (don't ask me about others, I have had but a brief introduction to Doom3, which is why I'm talking about NS2 on HL2) for the next incarnation of NS seem endless.
Perhaps the most innovative thing I saw was the use of modelmaps. When you look out of a window in any current NS map the most you can expect to see is a skybox. There are maps on the verge of release and tipped for the top which make very good use of external views of spaceships or heavy machinery models to enhance the atmosphere and inject a bit more realism. Mapping for NS must combine a good layout (to promote good gameplay) and a good atmosphere (to make the player believe he is in an -albeit fictional- environment). It is the latter that can be lacking in some NS maps, but should be made very much easier to enhance with the addition of a new technique.
When you see the skybox (the texture that's outside of the window) you could, for instance, see a 2D satellite dish painted on a semi-believable backdrop. In CS:S certain maps are surrounded by a 3D believable landscape. How? Well if you can play de_dust on CS:S go into spectator mode and do some exploring.On one side of the map you'll see some rolling hills, palm trees and a small pocket of Arabian architecture at its centre. This is a scaled-down model of what you see when you look at the skybox. Think of the scope for landscape modelling a Sci-Fi environment, like...um...NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I can't begin to think of what people could come up with to go with the background of an installation etc.
At the moment in my map's backstory I've crashlanded the dropship and the crew have to trek across barren terrain to reach the 'installation'. In NS2 I could have in the distance a distant dropship sleeping in the desert, its guts thrown out in a mechanical mess amongst rocks and craters... The dream's alive in my heart.
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Three words for you: Onos and structures. Imagine onos in base being a serious issue, as in it throws your structures across the room. It can blow a hole in the wall with Charge. Marines could pick up items lying around and throw them at skulks (I'd love to brick a skulk and kill it). The options are endless.
theres nothing wrong with the engine besides the fact that the editor is like trying to solve pandoras box. unrealed 3.0 is the most complex editor i have ever seen, and you practically have to be a quantum mechanic to use it. i can make a box room with a light and a spawn at bestand thats for the original ut not 2k4.
Are you seriously taking the ****?
UnrealEd 3 is easier to learn than Hammer is.
For a start the texture tools are a *hell* of a lot easier to use, and the entire package in general is much smoother and cleaner than Hammer is. The only things that are relatively hard to do is using the in-game havok physics in relation to stuff like static meshes - and only because it involves a fair bit of coding.
UnrealEd3 > Hammer
Big time.
I played NS from beta 1 to beta 4. I gave it up because, although it was a beautiful idea, the HL engine just can't realize the vision of it. There are too many things about the physics that need work. In spite of the fact that the developers have really made a silk purse out of a sow's ear, it still has some issues... At the time I said, "when they go to a new engine, I'll be back." This is still true. I'd love to play NS on a new engine.
As for which engine it should go to, its hard to say. I have not played any form of unreal, however, I have played Doom3 and HL2 (the old hacked version and CS:S). I can say that both of these looked wonderful, however, wouldn't it make the most sense to stick with the HL engine? Anyway...
-stooopsy
I played NS from beta 1 to beta 4. I gave it up because, although it was a beautiful idea, the HL engine just can't realize the vision of it. There are too many things about the physics that need work. In spite of the fact that the developers have really made a silk purse out of a sow's ear, it still has some issues... At the time I said, "when they go to a new engine, I'll be back." This is still true. I'd love to play NS on a new engine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ive played since 1.04, and thats enough time in ns to realise that you are an idiot.
doom3 would suck for ns for the simple fact that doom3 is lame.
hl2 for ns would be awsome, flame throwers and all <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
almost all items are interactable... a large portion of 'rubble' isn't though, which i'm dissapointed with..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant acctually see where this would fit into NS tho, not unless there are like beer cans which the crew have been drinking, but generally you dont get that many bottles in space ships, or rubble, so i dont quite see how it would fit into the NS theme <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Three words for you: Onos and structures. Imagine onos in base being a serious issue, as in it throws your structures across the room. It can blow a hole in the wall with Charge. Marines could pick up items lying around and throw them at skulks (I'd love to brick a skulk and kill it). The options are endless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I'll start firing 8 LMG bullets at Skulks then throwing a brick at their head for comedy. Awesome!
Thats an ignorant comment the i have no lag issues what so ever with the doom3 engine in multiplayer and considerings its going to be used for Quake4 remeber boys and girls Quake is what really started this online multiplayer thing its not really an issue.
Personally i feel Source engine is a let down its got nothing new and its late. The only thing i like about it is the fact you can shoot fruit and it breaks into peices <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In my opionon Doom3 engine has it all over source....
Thats an ignorant comment the i have no lag issues what so ever with the doom3 engine in multiplayer and considerings its going to be used for Quake4 remeber boys and girls Quake is what really started this online multiplayer thing its not really an issue.
Personally i feel Source engine is a let down its got nothing new and its late. The only thing i like about it is the fact you can shoot fruit and it breaks into peices <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In my opionon Doom3 engine has it all over source.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you realize that porting a HL1 mod to HL2 is heaps easier than trying to do the same with Doom 3?
"protolab built" ( or any tech building ect)
onous charges into spawn, knocking the protolab into some "pit"
protolab lost
the obs has a nice little satellite that’s spinning on the top. the obs gets knocked over now the satellite’s jammed
gg obs. It has now become inefficient in one simple “tap”
because of a “bump” to any building would turn them upside-down/over/down a pit, would make the building useless instantly. And because of this it would favor the aliens a great deal – yes. More balance issues
getting ns, onto hl2, would still need Alot of work. Not just because of balance issues
hl2 also really depends on the mappers; if they want to allow a onous to charge through a wall, or a rope thats slowly swaying over a pit of acid, or a generator that controls a “grid” of lights in the map
i know rag doll and other sick physics would be good, but any hl2 mod cannot be better then the map its played on.
-just my thoughts