Election Results Coming In!

N1Rampage · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Nov 2 2004, 11:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Each vote Bush gets is a confirmation of America's ignorance and stupidity to me that hits like a searing hot spear... Thank God I've got a dual citizenship in the EU, I'm not staying here while there's a murdering fascist in the White House.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I envy you... *wants to get married to you*

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

SkulkBait · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Nov 3 2004, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Someone just made a good point to me today: I don't have to blame Bush anymore for the crap he does, now I can blame the fundamentalist constitution shreading bastards who elected him directly. You should be happy guys, never again will I say that something is Bush's fult, from now on it is YOUR FUALT.

More soldiers die? YOUR FAULT.
Annother terrorist atack? YOUR FAULT.
80% of the world hates us? YOUR FAULT.
PTARIOT ACT II? YOUR freaking FAULT ****. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
It was our "fault" the first time.

</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
It wasn't nessesarily your fault the first time since you didn't know how he would act in office. After 4 years you have a pretty good idea, and you STILL elected him. Now it is your fault.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Now quit your ravings and suck it up, Bush winning is not a doomsday scenario, it's a good thing, and the country agrees with me. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Only about 51% of the country agrees with you. The other 49% seem to agree with me. And no, having a fundamentalist constitution shreader in office is not what I would call a "good thing" by any streach of the imagination.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Better start taking that cooking class now then.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
only a pansy would need it cooked. I will eat it raw.

N1Rampage · November 2004

BTW: Bush only won because he got the uneducated red0neck vote who will eat anything you cover it with the bible and wrap it up in the flag, even a turd for that matter.

reasa · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Only about 51% of the country agrees with you. The other 49% seem to agree with me. And no, having a fundamentalist constitution shreader in office is not what I would call a "good thing" by any streach of the imagination.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Please tell me exactly what Bush has "shredded" in the constitution?

Hey you may not call Bush winning a good thing, but he won the popular vote so you can talk to the hand, or some other limb attachment.

[WHO]Them · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (N1Rampage @ Nov 3 2004, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> BTW: Bush only won because he got the uneducated red0neck vote who will eat anything you cover it with the bible and wrap it up in the flag, even a turd for that matter.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Standard hippie rhetoric.

SkulkBait · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Please tell me exactly what Bush has "shredded" in the constitution?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Let see, what has the Bush administration done? Well, it authored the USAPATRIOT ACT, which infringes on about 6 Bill of Rights amendments. Hows that for starters.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Overview of Changes to Legal Rights
By The Associated Press

September 5, 2002

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:

* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION:
Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.

* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION:
Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

* FREEDOM OF SPEECH:
Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION:
Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES:
Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL:
Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

* RIGHT TO LIBERTY:
Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

I noticed you didn't deny the fundamentalist part. But I suppose fundamentalism is ok as long as you arent a muslim.

Nadagast · November 2004

Yea I don't really like either Bush or Kerry but people voting off religion is dumb. Like.... really dumb. Hold on....

<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'><u><i>DUMB</i></u></span></span></b> <-- that dumb

reasa · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Let see, what has the Bush administration done? Well, it authored the USAPATRIOT ACT, which infringes on about 6 Bill of Rights amendments. Hows that for starters.

 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Not good enough, sorry, if it's so bad we would see an outcry, just because you don't like it doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I noticed you didn't deny the fundamentalist part. But I suppose fundamentalism is ok as long as you arent a muslim.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

I didn't deny it, I ignored it. I don't see anything in his administration worthy of being deemed fundamentalism. No point in arguing with you though, as your mind is made up, and nether of us can be right in the others eyes.

SkulkBait · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Nov 3 2004, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Let see, what has the Bush administration done? Well, it authored the USAPATRIOT ACT, which infringes on about 6 Bill of Rights amendments. Hows that for starters.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Not good enough, sorry, if it's so bad we would see an outcry, just because you don't like it doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Forgive me if I value freedom. I mean, its not like this country was founded on it or anything.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I didn't deny it, I ignored it. I don't see anything in his administration worthy of being deemed fundamentalism.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
The man actually believes that God talks to him.

The_Thing · November 2004

Oh, looks like it's time to move out of country again. Too many retarded rednecks here.

reasa · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Forgive me if I value freedom. I mean, its not like this country was founded on it or anything.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I would love for you to show me how it has been used to take away peoples freedoms in a way which has angered people. Not hypothetical "omg the government is killing the peoples!!!11" actual specific meaningful examples.

Have you yourself lost any freedom?

You’re just as free now as you were when Clinton was president.

Snidely · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wizard@psu)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You know what made me happiest about this election?

Imagining Michael Moore waking up this morning and turning on the news.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Are you joking? The guy can squeeze about ten more books/films out of the next four years. He'll be crying tears of joy over the extra money he'll make.<b> Tears of joy!</b>

Pepe_Muffassa · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Nov 3 2004, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Let see, what has the Bush administration done? Well, it authored the USAPATRIOT ACT, which infringes on about 6 Bill of Rights amendments. Hows that for starters.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Not good enough, sorry, if it's so bad we would see an outcry, just because you don't like it doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Forgive me if I value freedom. I mean, its not like this country was founded on it or anything.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I didn't deny it, I ignored it. I don't see anything in his administration worthy of being deemed fundamentalism.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
The man actually believes that God talks to him.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
God talks to me - I pity you that you never hear His voice... or choose to ignore it.

Nadagast · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe_Muffassa @ Nov 3 2004, 02:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Nov 3 2004, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Let see, what has the Bush administration done? Well, it authored the USAPATRIOT ACT, which infringes on about 6 Bill of Rights amendments. Hows that for starters.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Not good enough, sorry, if it's so bad we would see an outcry, just because you don't like it doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Forgive me if I value freedom. I mean, its not like this country was founded on it or anything.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I didn't deny it, I ignored it. I don't see anything in his administration worthy of being deemed fundamentalism.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
The man actually believes that God talks to him. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
God talks to me - I pity you that you never hear His voice... or choose to ignore it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
ahaahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

what a joke

I'm constantly amazed at how closed-minded many Christians are.

reasa · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([ZAPR]The Thing @ Nov 3 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Oh, looks like it's time to move out of country again. Too many retarded rednecks here.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Really? Almost 50% of CA and 40% of NY are "rednecks", I'm sorry but if you can toss this kind of crap around in all seriousness your a fool.

Quit blaming Kerry's loss on people’s stereotypical picture of a dumb redneck...southern Mississippi did not win the election for Bush.
Swallow your pride and just admit he won fair and square, people (educated and uneducated, black through white, North and South, East and West) have spoken and they want Bush.

SkulkBait · November 2004

<a href='http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2003/09/14/StateLocal/Critics.Cite.Patriot.Act.Abuse.And.Misuse-465391.shtml' target='_blank'>Lets start here</a>

I shouldn't have to link you to every misuse of this horrific act, google will find plenty of them for you.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I would love for you to show me how it has been used to take away peoples freedoms in a way which has angered people. Have you yourself lost any freedom?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Just because it doesn't affect a majority of people doesn't mean that it isn't a problem. Our civil rights exist to protect the minority.

reasa · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Federal prosecutors used the act in June to file a charge of "terrorism using a weapon of mass destruction" against a California man after a pipe bomb exploded in his lap, wounding him as he sat in his car.

A North Carolina county prosecutor charged a man accused of running a methamphetamine lab with breaking a new state law barring the manufacture of chemical weapons. If convicted, Martin Dwayne Miller could get 12 years to life in prison for a crime that usually brings about six months.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Yea...what was he doing with that pipe bomb? WMD it was not but...what was he doing with a freaking pipe bomb!?

I hope they give him 12 years...maybe 20. When you break the law you forfeit many of your rights depending on the crime.

Can you find me anything better?

SkulkBait · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Nov 3 2004, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Federal prosecutors used the act in June to file a charge of "terrorism using a weapon of mass destruction" against a California man after a pipe bomb exploded in his lap, wounding him as he sat in his car.

A North Carolina county prosecutor charged a man accused of running a methamphetamine lab with breaking a new state law barring the manufacture of chemical weapons. If convicted, Martin Dwayne Miller could get 12 years to life in prison for a crime that usually brings about six months.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Yea...what was he doing with that pipe bomb? WMD it was not but...what was he doing with a freaking pipe bomb!?

I hope they give him 12 years...maybe 20. When you break the law you forfeit many of your rights depending on the crime.

Can you find me anything better? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well obviously there was nefarious intent. Thats not the freaking point. The point is that we have perfectly adiquate ways of dealing with these people as outlined in the constitution. They have the right to a fair trial, they have the right to a lawyer, ect. You don't give up those rights until you are CONVICTED. But for some reason the administration thinks its nessesary to wipe its **** with our most sacred document an in the name of "fighting terror" or whatever. You can't fight for freedom by taking it away.

And I'm not going to look up any more abuses for you, the fact that it is abused isn't the point since by its very nature it ALREADY VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION. Since that document appears to mean nothing to you, why exactly do you consider yourself American?

Snidely · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe_Muffassa @ Nov 3 2004, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> God talks to me - I pity you that you never hear His voice... or choose to ignore it.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Which voice is God? I hear so many.

SkulkBait · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Nov 3 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe_Muffassa @ Nov 3 2004, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> God talks to me - I pity you that you never hear His voice... or choose to ignore it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Which voice is God? I hear so many. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Its the one telling you to hate homosexuals and ignore all the evidence for evolution.

MamboKing · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 3 2004, 04:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Nov 3 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe_Muffassa @ Nov 3 2004, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> God talks to me - I pity you that you never hear His voice... or choose to ignore it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Which voice is God? I hear so many. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Its the one telling you to hate homosexuals and ignore all teh evidence for evolution.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
You forgot about the witches.

milton_friedman · November 2004

come come now, don’t get this thread locked please. Religion bashing = immediate lock on this thread, which I don’t want happening.

the_x5 · November 2004

actually more to the point:

religion + politics = locked thread + suspensions or bannings

~edit~

I realize the other statements are flames, but that's what happen when you try to force your evangelical beliefs on others Pepe. If you don't want to allow freedom of religion then you probably should move out of the US.

Iron_Maiden · November 2004

<b>Im happy that Bush was elected.</b>

My filosophy teacher told me once: <i>Only the human kind comes across the same stone (aka problems) twice. Or more.</i>
In this context, only human kind can re-elect Bush for another 4 years .The man who tears apart his own country.(Taxes, Deficit, War(that you cant win), Social benifits teared apart, etc.)

My History teacher taught me that every empire has its rise and its fall.
After WW I, EEUU came out as the most powerful country in the world (=>Economic). Then the crisis of the empire came with the URRS and Comunism, but the Reds gave up and you "<i>won</i>". I mean, they gave up....

But now I guess that the empire is falling....because they got into a war that cannot win (I ll explain this later)...because everybody hates you...because your own enemies (for the americans) are in their own country (not 4000 Miles away).

You may ask , win you cant win this war. Terrorism isnt a country or a united/single
army. Its the explotation to another countries that comes to a form; it is the hunger of nations , because some rich old guys in West are greedy ; it is the destruction of hopes of the people when they see the its country teared apart by some dictators that USA put there (e.g : Chile .70s. Elected president Allende was murdered by insurgent suported by the CIA and then came a dictatorship(more info , Bowling for columbine , i doubt you know where Chile is....) ).

The only way to destroy terrorism is to give people in third world countries (like mine , Argentina) hope. Humans with no hope has no fear to death. And those people are <b>WAY</b> more dangerous than any army. Even yours.-

Im happy that Bush was re-elected. He speeds up the fall of the Empire.
/OT: Bush = Darth Vader?

The_Finch · November 2004

Actually, I didn't listen to NPR. But the message isn't anything new. Bush keeps it short and any public speaking instructor will tell you to do that. He found his topic, national security and he stuck to it. Aside from the occasional "Iraq is free now" and "the economy is getting better," Bush stuck to his baby and it paid off. He's the president for 2004-2008.

I think that the real question becomes, "What will the Democrats do about it?" The Democrats need to do a few things for the 2006 elections.

1.) Axe the current leadership and bring in some upstarts. The Democratic leadership is stagnant. You could say that Republican leadership is stagnant too, with **** Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and the like, but the Republicans are winning. Barack Obama is a good start, but we need more. What the Democratic party needs is a few political mavericks to garner national attention. We should look in state governments to find moderate Dems who are young, charismatic and diverse in their backgrounds.

2.) Solidify issues and grab new ones. The Democrats had a lot of opportunities missed in this election. They really had a shot at usurping fiscal responsibility and states rights, which would offer a lot of appeal to the mid-west and the south, but they didn't. Kerry kept hammering away at Iraq and healthcare. Dems shouldn't have invested so much in their foreign policy approach. During election years, Americans care about America. What Europeans want is so far from people's minds that it's not even an issue.

I think that taking a few pages from the Libertarian playbook would really help the Democratic party. I know that I'm biased here, but if Democrats went pro-gun, anti-federal government and fiscally responsible, they could make massive gains in current red states. A catchy slogan like <i>Americans are the ones who are best qualified to decide what they want.</i> That would be the stuff. Paint the Republicans as the party that wants to make your moral decisions for you, and they want to do it <i>from Washington.</i>

3.) Get new voters. The Democrats can't keep relying on their traditional base. It's like they forgot all the lessons that Clinton imparted. Minorities and unions aren't cutting it anymore. We need new blood, which could be attracted with new party stars and a trio of solid issues. There's a lot of Republicans that I think could be stolen if the Dems changed their positions on federal taxation/spending and gun ownership.

Marine0I · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 4 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The man actually believes that God talks to him.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
This reminded me of one of my favourite Simpson's episode. Marge is facing a hearing at a mental institution, and starts praying midway. They ask her who she is talking to, and she says "God". They look at each other like she just said she wanted to kill them all, then ask carefully "And this 'God' - is it in the room with you right now?" "Why yes', replies Marge, "He's everywhere". They all look at each other and say "Crazy", then go to sentence her to time in the mental institution.

It was commenting, I believe, on the new bigotry, where believing in God is like your dirty little secret, and the mere fact that you do can be used as a criticism of you as a person.

x5 - I dont think that classifies as pushing evangelical beliefs on anyone. That is what is known as needling, because skulkbait + nadagast are confirmed atheists.

the_x5 · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Nov 3 2004, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> x5 - I dont think that classifies as pushing evangelical beliefs on anyone. That is what is known as needling, because skulkbait + nadagast are confirmed atheists. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Do you have a problem with them being atheist?

Personally I find my self to be a stongly religious person who believes strongly in God, but I'm open minded enough to be accepting of others who believe differently. I respect others beliefs and expect them to respect mine. I don't care what you believe as long as you let me to believe what I want to believe. I may leave an open ended statement of "Have you ever thought about it this way?", but I never show a lack of respect by forcing my beliefs on others.

My point was: any further lack of respect for freedom of religion on this board should warrant banning or suspension.

SkulkBait · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Nov 3 2004, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It was commenting, I believe, on the new bigotry, where believing in God is like your dirty little secret </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Thats not the problem at all. If it were, I never would have voted for Feingold (Jewish). The problem is that Bush A) Actually believes he is god told him to do things like attack iraq. B) He mixes his religion and his polotics too much.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think that taking a few pages from the Libertarian playbook would really help the Democratic party. I know that I'm biased here, but if Democrats went pro-gun, anti-federal government and fiscally responsible, they could make massive gains in current red states. A catchy slogan like Americans are the ones who are best qualified to decide what they want. That would be the stuff. Paint the Republicans as the party that wants to make your moral decisions for you, and they want to do it from Washington.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Good ideas.

I should probably mention that my comments about the voices in Snidely's head were tongue in cheek. People who have argued with me over religion know me better than that (I should hope).

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>because skulkbait + nadagast are confirmed atheists.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I'm not an atheist. I was at one time but I came to realize that in reality I just don't know if God(s) exist. This lead naturally to the my current state: I don't really care if God(s) exist, it won't change how I live my life. I suppose you could call me an apatheist.

illuminex · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Nov 3 2004, 02:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 3 2004, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually the truth is the right's mud slinging is much milder than the left is, and I think the recent election proves that.

You go onto forums across the internet calling all those who voted for bush "morons", "right wing nutjobs", "rednecks who just got done banging their sister", and yet I see nothing of the right people doing that.

Coincidentally I meet a lot of people but the most rabid I've ever seen were democrats.

They remind me of a dog fighting in a corner against an imending death. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Why would Republicans need to? They controlled, and will control, the Congress and the White House.

I don't think that the election had anything to do with aggressiveness. It had everything to do with simplicity.

People overlooked Bush's myriad failures, big and small, because he focused on a handful of topics and kept his message short. His supporters seem to believe that, on some basic level, he "gets it." Kerry on the other hand had a dozen issues and he spoke at length about all of them.

Look at what Bush covered. He didn't talk about the economy, education, the environment or anything like that. He stuck with security and Iraq which is his strong point. Kerry covered everything and he couldn't build any momentum until the very end of the campaign, which was too late.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I've gotta ask...what failures exactly are you referring to?

-The Recession started at the end of Clinton's term.
-We're climbing out of Recession.
-Afghanistan just had its first election, with problems yes, but it's a vast improvement.
-Iraq is progressing forward into the new millenium for the first time in 40 years.
-Saddam Heussein is no longer a threat.
-The world is beginning to move forward in dealing with North Korea and Iran.
-Everyone, including the rich (who honestly deserve a cut more than me or you) got taxes cut.

And I'm dismayed by how immature some of you are acting in this thread. It's funny how elitist atheist cookiecutter kiddies can be. I've known too many successful, intelligent, thoughtful Christians to believe that most of them are ignorant retarded rednecks. Get off your fake high horses. We whooped you, took you out, and spanked you with 4 million votes and now you're mad about it. THe river you're crying is enough to disrupt ocean currents. Suck it up, knock it off, and make your party more acceptable to mainstream America.

And hey Skulkbait, my parents are Christians and they're more tolerant than you are. They know about my bisexuality and they haven't freaked out at all. I don't bring people into the house, and they respect my choices. They don't rail on me about "going to hell" or any crap like that. They love me and respect me more than almost anyone else I know. It's a non-issue for them.

So try real tolerance and learn from real Christians. They accept everybody, just not everybody's behavior. You are not what you screw, and they know it.

Marine0I · November 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thats not the problem at all. If it were, I never would have voted for Feingold (Jewish). The problem is that Bush A) Actually believes he is god told him to do things like attack iraq. B) He mixes his religion and his polotics too much.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

A) I disagree. I dont think he woke up one night saying "What's that God, you want me to attack .... IRAN! Yes Oh Lord thou are wonderful and wi... whats that?.... are you sure, i distinctly heard... oh fair enough, sorry, I misheard - IRAQ WILL BURN! Thy Will Be Done, Amen". Like all Christian's, Bush asks himself if he thinks he is doing what God wants him to do. He prays about it, and if he still thinks thats what he should be doing, then he does it. If it turns out well, then he believes that he made the right decision and was doing what God wanted him to do. Thats why he believes the victory in Afghanistan was a blessing.

That's standard Christian decisionmaking process - its not "I have a mandate, all kneel before me, I am the Lord's mouthpiece!'

B) Personal opinion I guess - I'd be sus of anyone claiming to be a Christian yet never mentioning it unless pressed.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I should probably mention that my comments about the voices in Snidely's head were tongue in cheek. People who have argued with me over religion know me better than that (I should hope).</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

x5 - this is exactly what I was talking about. We do it to them, they do it to us - neither party takes it seriously.

Election Results Coming In!

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