Tell Me How To Take Back The 3rd Hive ...

deimos_telarin · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">with sensory upgrades instead of movemen</div> Right . . .

Cloaking is sweet and nice . . .

Def > Sensor > Move

or

Sensor > Def > Move

whatever . . .

Works nicely if the opposing marine team is not very skilled and failed to secure a hive . . .

And so what if the marines are a bit skilled?

And the managed to secure 1 hive very quickily? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

So . . .

To all the peeps out there who prefer Sensory over Movement . . .

Please tell me how are you going to destroy well turreted marine outposts with sensory upgrades . . .

Well turreted as the lots of sentries, lots of sieges, lots of marines looking after the outpost . . .

Lots of HA/HMG/GL marines looking after the outpost . . .

Tell me . . . ..

How will sensory upgrades help . ..

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Cheers. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Unit · November 2002

You uh.can..uh..see the enemy better...wait that's not true either enhanced sight makes enemies invisible...

Niteowl · November 2002

i agree with u, def & move definitely the best combo.

but just to be devils advocate (and for a bit of a challenge <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> )

4 fades, 1 skulks, 2 gorge. all cloaked.

1) one skulk lures out the marines, hopefully they'll only send out a few at at time.

2) gorges have path ALL webbed up

3) fades swipe unsuspecting biotches to death

4) repeat.

5) fades go in TOGETHER and take out turrest ONE BY ONE, go back to double gorge to heal

6) double gorges are protected by cloak.

What do u think?

DeadlyFreeze · November 2002

sense is worthless in the long run...

regen/adrin are the only real upgrades you need..

MooMoo_the_SnowCow · November 2002

I agree with that it should be def/move/sens Defense is important at the start to help with your offensive chambers. Movement is a must for when you get Fades because adrenline makes them alot more effective and movement chambers are useful for getting to one hive to the other.
And for fade caprace over regen any day because of the 60% improved absorbtion of damage.

Niteowl · November 2002

well, i posted a strat for taking back third hive with sens and def, tell me what u guys think.

that was the name of the post (unless you were being facetious.. DOH!)

[OF]Niteowl

deimos_telarin · November 2002

What happens when they started spamming pinapples?

If not . . .

It might work . . .

Just that have to co-ordinate attacks . . .

Team work . . .

Kharaa still requires that to prosper. . .

Nice strat . . . <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Nice challenge . . . <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

But for me, I'd go the easier way, spam Acid Rockets with Aderlaine . . .

lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Cheers.

Niteowl · November 2002

true, pineapple spamming would hurt things a bit for sure

and ty.

yeah, and you're right, the one big downside is it needs HUGE cooridnation.

cheers,

[OF]Niteowl

Forlorn · November 2002

Def. > Mov. > Sen.

Sensory is sooo usefull!

You can make your enemies invisible!

Or make it so they glow bright orange if they are hurt!

Or you can use cloak in a courner for 2 hours while the mirenes search for you at the end of the game!

For god's sake, cloak is the only partially usefull one...

I hate people who don't get sensory last.

Lord_Frodo · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadlyFreeze @ Nov 14 2002, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>sense is worthless in the long run...

regen/adrin are the only real upgrades you need..</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
oh man, if you only knew how wrong you were. Scent of fear enabled me to utterly crush the marines today on ns_caged. We had just gotten three hives, but the marines had a HEAVILY fortified base, they were killing oni like they weren't even there, but they didn't have HA, just HMGs and other heavy weapons. I evolved to lerk, got scent of fear, adrenaline, and regeneration as my upgrades, and went through the tunnel that leads right to the marine spawn. I sat there and for a loooong time, just spammed the marine spawn with spore clouds, and when there were no marines about I began spiking the turret factory... wouldn't let anyone with a welder get near the factory, though, because they'd die from spore clouds if they tried. Any time a marine spawned, *poof* spore cloud. Any time a marine MOVED, *poof* spore cloud... and as soon as they were hurt, I could see them on hive sight and was able to use indirect fire to kill them even when I didn't have a direct LOS. I racked up over 50 kills that game, with 8 deaths... eventually the turret factory fell to my spikes, and the marine base was lost soon afterwards.

Acidhamster · November 2002

A cloak'd fade outside a marine base at mid game can kill almost anything that comes out of it....

A fade w/ Sent of Fear who sees that group of 4 heavys stumbling around outside the hive knows exactly which one he can kill and which one hes just **obscenity** rockets on.

That other one.. bleh hehe <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

While I like movment, I'd almost never get it 1st or 2nd, it seems more of a end game upgrade.. <b>unless</b> the marines were winning when we got the 2nd hive and already had heavys patroling everywhere that we had to stand back and **obscenity** rockets at. Most games I try to make sure my team gets the 2nd hive FAST and therefore we have Fades <b>before</b> they have an army of MechWarroirs..

DeadlyFreeze · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I evolved to lerk, got scent of fear, adrenaline, and regeneration as my upgrades</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

so how am I wrong now? You spored them to death, with out adren you would have had to waited much more time between spores and probaly gotten killed, with out regen you would have slowley died out from random attacks.. everyone knows where marine bases are, they dont change.. and you can hear marines coming from a mile away. Only thing sense works well as is cloaking, and thats more of a fun thing. Cloaking as a ono or a fade and jumping out as 3 marines pass by you.

movement and defense towers are corner stones, they make the Kharaa strong, sense is just an extra

Acidhamster · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
thats more of a fun thing. Cloaking as a ono or a fade and jumping out as 3 marines pass by you.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

3 for 0, next? sounds like cloaking is a damn good and horribly effective tool if used in ambush. Granted its not so usefull when your back is to the wall (about to lose 2nd hive) but the idea is not to let it get that bad.

[edit] I would also like to mention that no alien team should be w/o DC. It is prolly the <b>most</b> valuable building/set of upgrades. [/edit]

Tempest · November 2002

Niteowl I dont think it would work out very well. :/

One skulk would most likely be turned into goo before he could do anything, and even if not, why bother chasing a skulk? I doubt marines whould chase the skulk, certainly not through web. But for lets say it did work. So you kill 2-3 marines (at the very best). So now they know you are there, you do the same thing again and they wont fall for it. They might shoot randomly to find you, they might ask comm for scanner sweep (or if the comm was watching he might sweep it), ect.

When I play commander I often scanner sweep for my marines. Well, at least for those that stick together and work as a team. Those solo deathmatchers, well they're on their own as far as comm help is concerned (I'll give health and ammo on request, and new weapon/armor if they dont die in 3 seconds and if we can afford it, but I wont be monitoring them, if they need something they'll have to ask =p)

creaping_death · November 2002

Every one seam to do better with defense>move>sensory

Defense first all ways to heal your defense
Move is good to help defend the hives (press +use takes you to the furthers hive from your position)
Sensory good at the end to nail them harder with cloaking everywhere

DeadlyFreeze · November 2002

Its comes down to what you want, of course deffense towers should ALWAYS come first (just shake your head you know its right), then come a descision movement or sense, break them down.

Movement: Adrin upgrade, move around the map at light speed...
or
Sense: Better ablity to see the enemy/cloak..

so at the 2 hive point the lines have pretty much been drawn between the captured nodes of marines and Kharaa, you will start seeing marines with HMGS and Heavy A... the last thing you want to do with a marine with a HMG and Heavy armor is close combat. So the cloaking is pretty null, while on the other hand you can beef up your acid rocket with faded... the choice seems pretty obvious.

Def/Mov/Sens

SrCumference · November 2002

Cloak in the beginning of a game can keep the marines scared enough to not even come out of their base long enough to even threaten you.

I admit that the sensory evolves are a bit... not quite so essential, but they can be extremely useful if you don't suck with them...

All in all, it comes down to opinion, and opinion is one thing that is useless to debate.

deimos_telarin · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Cloak in the beginning of a game can keep the marines scared enough to not even come out of their base long enough to even threaten you.

I admit that the sensory evolves are a bit... not quite so essential, but they can be extremely useful if you don't suck with them...

All in all, it comes down to opinion, and opinion is one thing that is useless to debate.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Did you even bother to read the title of this thread before you post? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Did you even bother to read the 1st post of this thread before you post? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

I'm saying about a scenario where
- the marines have a 3rd hive <b>heavily</b> fortified with tons of sentries and sieges
- lots of backup turret factories
- phase gates in the 3rd hive base
- phase gates in every marine outposts
- place is crawling with marines in HA + HMG/GL + welder
- the marines move in groups
- always have one marine that spams welding-
- always keeping their armor at full
- a commander that constantly monitors this group of marines and drops med packs when he(commander) sees their health is not at 100%.
- a commander that informs his team whenever an outpost is under attack and at least 2 marines will check out that outposts immediately, repeling hostile forces while repairing the damaged buildings
- a couple of marines in HA + HMG/Shotgun that regularly does phase gates patrols to maintain all marine outposts, keeping all the buildings in perfect condition
- all weldable vents have been welded
- all marine outposts are heavily fortified with sentries and sieges
- the marines control at least 4 nodes
(1 main, 1 hive, 2 more other nodes)
- all outposts are heavily turreted, with backup turret factories and no blind spots for skulks to bite the turret factories
- enough turrets to gun down a skulk in less than a second
- enough turrets to prevent a Fade from claw swiping
- they are slowly mowing down the kharaa's resource nodes while defending their own

Now, tell me, how is the Kharaa team going to get back the 3rd hive, using Sensory upgrades instead of Movement upgrades, in such a scenario? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Cheers. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

deimos_telarin · November 2002

People, lets hear some comments? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Cheers. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

DeadlyFreeze · November 2002

uhhh lets see, they dont Kharaa lose........

worest thread ever

coil · November 2002

Sensory can be used quite effectively in base assault - I would choose Enhanced Hive Sight and carapace/redemption, or cloaking and regeneration.

Case1: Enhanced Hive Sight allows you to clearly see all marines and structures, especially in a dimly-lit hive room, and improves your ability to aim at specific targets.

Case2: extremely good for lerks and fades - hit and run, then cloak while you regenerate.

I can't remember if Scent of Fear reveals damaged buildings as well; if it does, it can be used against a damaged base to best pick your targets and guage the position of structures before actually coming under fire.

Adrenaline is a great upgrade, to be certain, but in some ways it's a crutch as well. Attacking a well-fortified base isn't about all-out assault; it's about picking away at the defenses while you keep the marines contained and resource-starved. Umbra can be kept up indefinitely without Adrenaline - you simply can't spike-spam while you're doing it. Instead, provide the umbra for a Fade or another Lerk. Healing spray benefits from adrenaline, but if you have the marines penned in there's no reason not to have a few DCs out of siege range for quick healing.

I wish people showed more variety in their upgrade choices; I love getting sensory first. Early-game aliens are dependent on ambush tactics, and marines seldom have motion tracking or scanner sweeps - cloaking is much more effective.

----edit----
and by the way... the scenario you offer there is one of marine *ownage*. You can't expect aliens to win in that scenario, even with movement upgrades. If the marines have multiple well-defended and phase-connected bases, a competent commander, high tech-tree items and upgrades, and effective and obedient marines... AND they're holding a hive... the aliens are in deep trouble. I would suggest keeping them contained, taking out their outposts, and then their main base. Save the hive base for last, as hives are generally more alien-friendly areas for combat.

Umbralla · November 2002

I love Cloaking. using Carapace/Cloaking/Cerelity I can camp outside an enemy base and ambush them with acid rockets, switchign to swipe as i get in close and take down 2-3 at a time. I have got a record of about 50-5 with this.

Umbralla · November 2002

And abotu the scenario you just described with the Marines raping the Kharaa:

If the marines get to such a point that they are all HMG/HA/GL... The Kharaa deserve to lose. Obviously they were not playing up to par to let the marines gain such a massive advantage.

deimos_telarin · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Case1: Enhanced Hive Sight allows you to clearly see all marines and structures, especially in a dimly-lit hive room, and improves your ability to aim at specific targets.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>But its rather bugged now, last time I used it, all the marines' stuff are transparent, is it fixed? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Case2: extremely good for lerks and fades - hit and run, then cloak while you regenerate.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>Erm. Marines got hit by lerks and fades, lerks and fades run, marines chases, marines uses, "Need Order", then yells to commander, "Scanner Sweep, NOW!", commander does scanner sweep. Marines sees lerks and fades making out, takes aim with Heavy Machine Gun and blast away.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I can't remember if Scent of Fear reveals damaged buildings as well; if it does, it can be used against a damaged base to best pick your targets and guage the position of structures before actually coming under fire.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>Its documented in the manual that it only works against wounded marines.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I wish people showed more variety in their upgrade choices; I love getting sensory first. Early-game aliens are dependent on ambush tactics, and marines seldom have motion tracking or scanner sweeps - cloaking is much more effective.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>In early game, where marines still don't have access to heavy weapons, 2 OC + 2 DC is a very efficient road block. Marines simply can't do enough damage to them to kill them, especially when there is a gorge hiding behind it healing them with healing spray.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>and by the way... the scenario you offer there is one of marine *ownage*. You can't expect aliens to win in that scenario, even with movement upgrades. If the marines have multiple well-defended and phase-connected bases, a competent commander, high tech-tree items and upgrades, and effective and obedient marines... AND they're holding a hive... the aliens are in deep trouble. I would suggest keeping them contained, taking out their outposts, and then their main base. Save the hive base for last, as hives are generally more alien-friendly areas for combat.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Cheers.

But this is usually what happens I'm in command, and up against Kharaa players who are not very skilled.
(commanded like 5 times, lost 1, won 4. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>)
(after a game which I've commanded and the game ended, I always take a break. Its kinda tiring for me to be commander)

Note : At first I was all out Kharaa player, only playing Kharaa, after quite a while I understand how the Kharaa team plays out.

After getting bored of owning the Frontiersmen over and over again as Kharaa, I tried the Frontiersmen team, starting out as a Marine who listens to the Commander, follows teammates and spams welding all over their armor when they are busy gunning down stuffs, patrols outposts through phase gates to check for Kharaa activity, repairing damaged buildings, etc.

Later, I tried my 1st commanding in 5 v 5 game(lol though at 1st it was 5 v 3, Kharaa team kept shouting, teams! teams! even the #@%@# teams! I barked back at them saying, "relax, I'm a newbie commander, let me try out the interface and stuff).

And so later I'm able to command 6 v 6 games, 7 v 7 games and 8 v 8 games.

coil · November 2002

Enhanced Hive Sight only becomes truly effective at level3 - at low levels, it can actually make marines harder to see. But at level 3, it works on marines exactly as your flashlight normally works on aliens.

Nimbus · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbralla @ Nov 14 2002, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I love Cloaking. using Carapace/Cloaking/Cerelity I can camp outside an enemy base and ambush them with acid rockets, switchign to swipe as i get in close and take down 2-3 at a time. I have got a record of about 50-5 with this.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You have gotten a score of 50-5 with the fade <i>once?</i> I get a score of that almost every time I play from the beginning.

Man, I don't know about you guys but once I get fade, I get carapace and (hopefully) adrenaline and then it's usually game over for the marines. As soon as I get fade I don't die, barring the occasional stuck bug with blink or stuck bug with anything else.

Acidhamster · November 2002

In your said up front assault I'd rather go with sensor over movment.. because it is of more help IMO to the low end evolves that can't stand in the fire like fades/onos can. *cough* <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'> *cough*

In my experiences buildings <b>don't</b> die to acid rocket. I'm sure they do.. eventually, but I don't feel that is necessary. A base w/o marines is a base waiting to get raped by Fades in Melee.

A base with marines is waiting for the Fades to kill all the marines with Acid Rocket! That said, Adren or Sent of Fear would both work extremely well in killing off the marines in an efficient manner.

PS. If you don't see how Sent of Fear would be helpful in a fight you should play more RTS's and learn about how to micro-manage during combat and its amazing effects. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Tell Me How To Take Back The 3rd Hive ...

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