Seeking D&d Fans Able To Explain It To Newbie
Marik_Steele
To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">no, I'm not the newbie, it's a friend.</div> I've got a friend who used to think Zelda on the N64 and Diablo 1 & 2 were good "RPG's." After my recommendation to play KOTOR he's beaten it twice in a span of almost as few months (may do it a 3rd time) and recognizes those "RPGs" for what they are: an action-adventure and a couple of mildly-fun-for-co-op-play clickfests, respectively.
I'm trying to get him to play Planescape: Torment, but I'm having trouble explaining to him why different D&D games are completely unrelated to each other. I'm trying to explain the whole deal about Wizards of the Coast owning the D&D system, how it seems to have been split into different licenses or something, so you've got Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Greyhawk, and others I don't know the names for. I'm trying to explain how they're different to the point where it seems like they're different universes, but the significance of such terms as "universes" gets thrown clear out the window when you start talking about every Plane in Planescape from here to Baator.
How do I un-confuse my description of the whole situation enough to explain to him?
I'm trying to get him to play Planescape: Torment, but I'm having trouble explaining to him why different D&D games are completely unrelated to each other. I'm trying to explain the whole deal about Wizards of the Coast owning the D&D system, how it seems to have been split into different licenses or something, so you've got Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Greyhawk, and others I don't know the names for. I'm trying to explain how they're different to the point where it seems like they're different universes, but the significance of such terms as "universes" gets thrown clear out the window when you start talking about every Plane in Planescape from here to Baator.
How do I un-confuse my description of the whole situation enough to explain to him?
Comments
Some of the 'settings' have rules that wouldn't even make sense let alone work in other settings. In addition, there are lots of 'homebrew' rules that work into the settings to give them a more unique flavor.
In addition, with hardcore players it is standard practice to take your character with you from gamemaster to gamemaster as each may run a campaign. By following the rules set forth in the settings, you avoid the following problems.
Player1: Hi guys I just finished that campaign with Bob's crew.
Player2: Cool was it fun?
Player1: Yeah we had a great time.
GM: Umm player1, last time you played with us your character was a lvl 7 rogue with 40hp.
Player1: Yeah thats right.
GM: Well, why is it that you now are a lvl 45 drunkenmaster with 4000 hp and boots of buttkicking?
Player1: Well our character left the DragonLance setting and wound up in the Forgotten Relms setting where I found a ring of 40 wishes....
GM: I see.
That is just one scenario. It helps preseve that aspect of the gaming.
So in short: Player portability, maintaining storylines, simplicity of rules.
For a description of how it works? Quantum realities. Sure gravity works the same, but its not the same world.
DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!. DON'T LISTEN!
That's one practice I'd do anything to prevent from spreading any further than absolutely neccesary. It sucks, it kills games and it makes no sense whatsoever.
As for D&D, it's a system of rules intended for roleplaying. The system as such is geared for fantasy settings, but isn't focused on any specific fantasy setting. Several different campaign settings have been released, but they are extensions to D&D, not D&D itself.
Wow, this isn't really adding alot to the conversation. How about engines and cars? Such as, each D&D game runs on the same engine (stats, throwing saves, etc) , but can be a totally different car (body, tires, suspension). However, each engine can be differnt to an extent(400 HP brain melter vs a 60 HP gas siper), but still be the same (internal combustion, has many of the same TYPES of parts).
Dangit, this is what happens when you know a little about everything, but really nothing about anything.
But try anyway. And stop talking about licensing out bits of D&D and that, tell him to wipe the slate clean and try over again. Forgotten realms is not D&D. Greyhawk is not D&D (though it's used as the example setting in the corebook), dragonlance is not D&D. D&D is the system, all the campaign settings are FOR D&D, and use D&D as a system.
DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!. DON'T LISTEN!
That's one practice I'd do anything to prevent from spreading any further than absolutely neccesary. It sucks, it kills games and it makes no sense whatsoever.
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Umm, ok.
Spreading any further? It isn't something I am advocating, it is standard practice among the more dedicated DnD players. If you want to argue against it why not explain why someone shouldn't do it rather than rant that it is terrible and offer no suggestions. Personally, I don't bother with this style of play. I only know a few good DM's and I am not the type to play a character for long periods of time. yet I am not going to say that it doesn't exist.
Think about what you just said. Your arguement would be like me coming out and saying: "I like fast cars but I hate it when people drag race. It makes no sense whatsoever."
The practice that you want to prevent from spreading any further is the core game that DnD originally was. Players were invested in their character, not the DM. It works if you have DMs that will follow the rules and standards of play.
You wouldn't quit playing football just because the referrees changed would you?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Spreading any further? It isn't something I am advocating, it is standard practice among the more dedicated DnD players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends. I find that players with such an attitude to roleplaying have very little dedication. In my eyes, they're the roleplaying equivalent of 13-year-olds playing CS with OMG, LOL, ROFL, CHEATER, and h4x0r flying right and left. Their dedication to the story is just about the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want to argue against it why not explain why someone shouldn't do it rather than rant that it is terrible and offer no suggestions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, there's lots of them. Create characters to fit the story, try to keep character levels in the party reasonably even, visit WotC's boards once in a while.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally, I don't bother with this style of play. I only know a few good DM's and I am not the type to play a character for long periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about playing the character for a long time, it's about moving it around without regard to context as if the game was an MMORPG.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Think about what you just said. Your arguement would be like me coming out and saying: "I like fast cars but I hate it when people drag race. It makes no sense whatsoever."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As said, I wanted to avoid posting a huge off-topic post.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The practice that you want to prevent from spreading any further is the core game that DnD originally was. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not a first edition player or anything, but WotCs boards are ample indication that if that sort of attitude to the game was once the core, it certainly no longer is. Munchkins are loathed as much in there as everywhere else.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Players were invested in their character, not the DM. It works if you have DMs that will follow the rules and standards of play.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rules and standards of play? In my eyes, the rules and standards of play differ from one story to the other just as much as they do in any given movie. Munchkin characters are fine, gamism can easily be fun, but I'd like to keep them to the games where they're appropriate. Taking characters from one game to the other and back sounds like magic cards to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You wouldn't quit playing football just because the referrees changed would you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't say, I'm not playing football <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> But changing the DM is much more than a referee.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Spreading any further? It isn't something I am advocating, it is standard practice among the more dedicated DnD players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends. I find that players with such an attitude to roleplaying have very little dedication. In my eyes, they're the roleplaying equivalent of 13-year-olds playing CS with OMG, LOL, ROFL, CHEATER, and h4x0r flying right and left. Their dedication to the story is just about the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want to argue against it why not explain why someone shouldn't do it rather than rant that it is terrible and offer no suggestions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, there's lots of them. Create characters to fit the story, try to keep character levels in the party reasonably even, visit WotC's boards once in a while.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally, I don't bother with this style of play. I only know a few good DM's and I am not the type to play a character for long periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about playing the character for a long time, it's about moving it around without regard to context as if the game was an MMORPG.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Think about what you just said. Your arguement would be like me coming out and saying: "I like fast cars but I hate it when people drag race. It makes no sense whatsoever."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As said, I wanted to avoid posting a huge off-topic post.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The practice that you want to prevent from spreading any further is the core game that DnD originally was. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not a first edition player or anything, but WotCs boards are ample indication that if that sort of attitude to the game was once the core, it certainly no longer is. Munchkins are loathed as much in there as everywhere else.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Players were invested in their character, not the DM. It works if you have DMs that will follow the rules and standards of play.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rules and standards of play? In my eyes, the rules and standards of play differ from one story to the other just as much as they do in any given movie. Munchkin characters are fine, gamism can easily be fun, but I'd like to keep them to the games where they're appropriate. Taking characters from one game to the other and back sounds like magic cards to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You wouldn't quit playing football just because the referrees changed would you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't say, I'm not playing football <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> But changing the DM is much more than a referee. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You and I are obviously thinking about two different groups of people.
The only guys I have ever met who play characters between DM's are the exact opposite of what you are describing.