Halo 2 Conspiracy! Ooooooh!
POOP_Akira
Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23468Members
Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23468Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Toned down on purpose?</div> Ohnoes!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Make of this what you will, but maybe I said something a little too close to the truth and someone nervous. My original post on the bungie forums got 42 replies within 50 minutes and then the topic was locked. Shortly after that I was blacklisted (banned) from the forums. Keep in mind the bungie forums are automatically censored, so curse words appear as "-blam-", so I know I wasn't banned for language. I'll try to restate this word for word as best as possible, but I can't reference my original post because it has since been removed.
The game of Halo 2 as it exists now is not what bungie initially intended for it to be, nor is this close to the final product they worked three years on to complete. Lets start with the Halo 2 cinematic trailer (released in september of 2002). MC is on a ship and you can hear random chatter over his comm as he walks down a corridor: notice you'll hear things like "that's not enough to stop an assault carrier" and "its like the god damn apocolypse". They have called for reinforcements and the reinforcements are MC alone -- one man, exciting enough that it still gives me goosebumps. So then master chief ejects from the ships air lock and makes his dive towards earth. What do you see? A whole continent saturated with fire and nuclear explosions. That does seem pretty apocolyptic.
Now lets move on to the E3 demo (released in may 2003). MC flies into New Mombasa on a pelican with the sarge and a few ODSTs. When he exits the pelican, yes, it would appear to be a full-scale invasion of earth. Wounded soldiers all around, huge covenant artillery blasting buildings, etc... exciting! He makes his run through the city and then mans the gun on the back of the gauss hog. He rolls through New Mombasa with a couple marines, you see a few other hogs rolling around, streets intersecting in and out of one another, passages that lead to other areas... its a battle on a pretty large scale. A convenant invasion of earth.
Compare these situations to the actual game of Halo 2. Where is the "god damn apocolypse"? Earth isnt even being invaded. A few small covenant platoons go to earth for one reason or another and thats it. There isnt even a hint of earth being invaded in halo 2 until the very end, then the game ends. You can see earth from space station cairo and its untouched. When it comes to all this missing storyline, what went wrong? What changed? Who intervened?
The -single- level that does take place on earth is -OBVIOUSLY- a last minute change. Notice some similarities between this earth level and the new mombasa level from the E3 demo. MC still flies in on a pelican with the sarge and some marines, not ODSTs this time. If you really pay attention you can see the marines in the pelican doing the exact same movements as the ODSTs in the E3 demo -EXACTLY-. one marine shoves a clip into his rifle while another puts on his helmet, the same as the ODSTs in the E3 demo. Sarge even says the same stuff except this time he has a little monologue about 'regret'. Also notice at the start of this level, there is no text on screen telling you where you are headed. No mention of the city name, date or location. How odd is that? When the game starts and you see the opening cinematic, you get a date and you are told exactly what you are seeing; the covenant high charity. Even in the new mombasa level on the E3 demo, you are given the same information. Strangely enough this information is missing in the actual game. Minor inconsistencies like this can only mean a handful of things. This level was added at the last minute to replace the new mombasa level because the direction of the game had taken a serious change in direction because of something or someone. Load up the outskirts level and point your view to the rooftops and tell me what you see. You might not be looking for them but you'll see power lines. You have got to be kidding me. Its the year 2552... Power lines?! Things like this, the inconsistencies and missing -important- cinematic information just do not happen when you spend three years developing a game. It simply does not happen. You do not "hype" a game up to be an awesome showdown on earth between the humans and covenant and then make the -single- earth level in the game complete garbage. My god is that level ever so linear and boring. From point A to point B. Its not the "god damn apocolypse" its a god damn conspiracy.
Simply put, Microsoft is greedy. Microsoft made bungie change the direction of the game and gave it that awful cliffhanger ending. They ran out of time because they had to take out a lot of the content that was already in the game and replace it with whatever they could. Propbably why you end up playing as the arbiter so much. Its all filler for the missing content. Watch the limited edition DVD and check out the segment on the mongoose (the human atv). They say it was buggy and didnt handle properly, watch the video and decide for yourself, it was perfectly fine. There are a few misleading statements from bungie employees in this dvd. Its not their fault, they are just covering for microsoft. Like when they say that the new mombasa E3 level was the first thing they worked on. That is utter BS. All the vehicles had their physics and mass properties already. The character models and animations were finished. There were cinematics and scripted dialogue from all the real voice actors. There was an entire level designed. Don't tell me they spent the next year and a half to design the 6 other awful levels we got. Even with all the bug testing and all that, is not reasonable. 60+ people were working on the campaign mode while 4 people worked on the multiplayer. Too many things just dont add up. Nothing about it makes any sense at all. If there is truth in the fact that the E3 new mombasa level was the first thing they worked on... which already had so many features already implemented, what in the **** did they do with all that time in between may 2003 and november 9th?
Read any publication online or in real life dealing with halo 2 before its release. Whenever someone from bungie spoke about the game, the focus was earth. The cinematic trailer, focus: earth. The E3 demo, focus: earth. It was all supposed to be about earth. Would bungie intentionally mislead us to think that is was going to be all about earth and then smack us in the face with an awful game like this? I dont think so. You cant say that what i expected halo 2 to be was just what i had in my head. It is what we were -lead- to believe and what we were told it would be. This isnt me being disappointed because I believed too much hype -- this is me being disappointed because for one reason or another, "we" didnt the the game of halo 2 that was "promised" to us.
Think about it... the E3 gameplay demo was released in may of 2003, almost a full year a half before the release of the game. The new mombasa level was brilliant. They didnt have to keep the scripting for the level, just the level itself. Why take it out? Why not put as much as you can into halo 2 including that level, because it definitely had a place in the game. Oh, im sorry. It had a place in the game as it was originally conceived, but not the greedy stripped down micro$oft half-assed version that we got.
In conclusion... what do you think went wrong? You're a fool if you think they just couldnt fit one more level into the game, they could have put the game on two discs and added 20 (we wish) more levels very easily, and microsoft has the money for that. Don't tell me it was because of hardware issues, because its only a map. And dont tell me that you cant include a rocket hog or a personnel transport hog in the game because of hardware issues either, if you can support one vehicle, you can support another. You're being mislead in a number of ways to hide the fact that you've been shafted out of $55 for a game that is shorter than the original and far less enjoyable (aside form the multiplayer which is spectacular). Bungie wanted to give us everything we had hoped for, its just a shame we'll never get to see the godliness of what they had in store for us.
Go to www.bungie.net and look at the title for the halo 2 forums. They are called new mombasa. A level that doesnt even exist in the game (now). What kind of reasoning is there for that? Should that be reserved for halo 3 *cough* when you -might- actually get a chance to catch a glimpse of the city. Rubbish. Bungie said many times halo 2 would bringe closure and there would be no halo 3. Bungie also said they would "never specify a release date for halo 2 until we are certain we could release a finished product." That statement was on their main website the day that the release date was accounced. So why would they set a date for themselves where they knew they wouldnt finish in time and be forced to take out all kinds of content? They wouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was kinda dissapointed how it didn't all take place on earth...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Make of this what you will, but maybe I said something a little too close to the truth and someone nervous. My original post on the bungie forums got 42 replies within 50 minutes and then the topic was locked. Shortly after that I was blacklisted (banned) from the forums. Keep in mind the bungie forums are automatically censored, so curse words appear as "-blam-", so I know I wasn't banned for language. I'll try to restate this word for word as best as possible, but I can't reference my original post because it has since been removed.
The game of Halo 2 as it exists now is not what bungie initially intended for it to be, nor is this close to the final product they worked three years on to complete. Lets start with the Halo 2 cinematic trailer (released in september of 2002). MC is on a ship and you can hear random chatter over his comm as he walks down a corridor: notice you'll hear things like "that's not enough to stop an assault carrier" and "its like the god damn apocolypse". They have called for reinforcements and the reinforcements are MC alone -- one man, exciting enough that it still gives me goosebumps. So then master chief ejects from the ships air lock and makes his dive towards earth. What do you see? A whole continent saturated with fire and nuclear explosions. That does seem pretty apocolyptic.
Now lets move on to the E3 demo (released in may 2003). MC flies into New Mombasa on a pelican with the sarge and a few ODSTs. When he exits the pelican, yes, it would appear to be a full-scale invasion of earth. Wounded soldiers all around, huge covenant artillery blasting buildings, etc... exciting! He makes his run through the city and then mans the gun on the back of the gauss hog. He rolls through New Mombasa with a couple marines, you see a few other hogs rolling around, streets intersecting in and out of one another, passages that lead to other areas... its a battle on a pretty large scale. A convenant invasion of earth.
Compare these situations to the actual game of Halo 2. Where is the "god damn apocolypse"? Earth isnt even being invaded. A few small covenant platoons go to earth for one reason or another and thats it. There isnt even a hint of earth being invaded in halo 2 until the very end, then the game ends. You can see earth from space station cairo and its untouched. When it comes to all this missing storyline, what went wrong? What changed? Who intervened?
The -single- level that does take place on earth is -OBVIOUSLY- a last minute change. Notice some similarities between this earth level and the new mombasa level from the E3 demo. MC still flies in on a pelican with the sarge and some marines, not ODSTs this time. If you really pay attention you can see the marines in the pelican doing the exact same movements as the ODSTs in the E3 demo -EXACTLY-. one marine shoves a clip into his rifle while another puts on his helmet, the same as the ODSTs in the E3 demo. Sarge even says the same stuff except this time he has a little monologue about 'regret'. Also notice at the start of this level, there is no text on screen telling you where you are headed. No mention of the city name, date or location. How odd is that? When the game starts and you see the opening cinematic, you get a date and you are told exactly what you are seeing; the covenant high charity. Even in the new mombasa level on the E3 demo, you are given the same information. Strangely enough this information is missing in the actual game. Minor inconsistencies like this can only mean a handful of things. This level was added at the last minute to replace the new mombasa level because the direction of the game had taken a serious change in direction because of something or someone. Load up the outskirts level and point your view to the rooftops and tell me what you see. You might not be looking for them but you'll see power lines. You have got to be kidding me. Its the year 2552... Power lines?! Things like this, the inconsistencies and missing -important- cinematic information just do not happen when you spend three years developing a game. It simply does not happen. You do not "hype" a game up to be an awesome showdown on earth between the humans and covenant and then make the -single- earth level in the game complete garbage. My god is that level ever so linear and boring. From point A to point B. Its not the "god damn apocolypse" its a god damn conspiracy.
Simply put, Microsoft is greedy. Microsoft made bungie change the direction of the game and gave it that awful cliffhanger ending. They ran out of time because they had to take out a lot of the content that was already in the game and replace it with whatever they could. Propbably why you end up playing as the arbiter so much. Its all filler for the missing content. Watch the limited edition DVD and check out the segment on the mongoose (the human atv). They say it was buggy and didnt handle properly, watch the video and decide for yourself, it was perfectly fine. There are a few misleading statements from bungie employees in this dvd. Its not their fault, they are just covering for microsoft. Like when they say that the new mombasa E3 level was the first thing they worked on. That is utter BS. All the vehicles had their physics and mass properties already. The character models and animations were finished. There were cinematics and scripted dialogue from all the real voice actors. There was an entire level designed. Don't tell me they spent the next year and a half to design the 6 other awful levels we got. Even with all the bug testing and all that, is not reasonable. 60+ people were working on the campaign mode while 4 people worked on the multiplayer. Too many things just dont add up. Nothing about it makes any sense at all. If there is truth in the fact that the E3 new mombasa level was the first thing they worked on... which already had so many features already implemented, what in the **** did they do with all that time in between may 2003 and november 9th?
Read any publication online or in real life dealing with halo 2 before its release. Whenever someone from bungie spoke about the game, the focus was earth. The cinematic trailer, focus: earth. The E3 demo, focus: earth. It was all supposed to be about earth. Would bungie intentionally mislead us to think that is was going to be all about earth and then smack us in the face with an awful game like this? I dont think so. You cant say that what i expected halo 2 to be was just what i had in my head. It is what we were -lead- to believe and what we were told it would be. This isnt me being disappointed because I believed too much hype -- this is me being disappointed because for one reason or another, "we" didnt the the game of halo 2 that was "promised" to us.
Think about it... the E3 gameplay demo was released in may of 2003, almost a full year a half before the release of the game. The new mombasa level was brilliant. They didnt have to keep the scripting for the level, just the level itself. Why take it out? Why not put as much as you can into halo 2 including that level, because it definitely had a place in the game. Oh, im sorry. It had a place in the game as it was originally conceived, but not the greedy stripped down micro$oft half-assed version that we got.
In conclusion... what do you think went wrong? You're a fool if you think they just couldnt fit one more level into the game, they could have put the game on two discs and added 20 (we wish) more levels very easily, and microsoft has the money for that. Don't tell me it was because of hardware issues, because its only a map. And dont tell me that you cant include a rocket hog or a personnel transport hog in the game because of hardware issues either, if you can support one vehicle, you can support another. You're being mislead in a number of ways to hide the fact that you've been shafted out of $55 for a game that is shorter than the original and far less enjoyable (aside form the multiplayer which is spectacular). Bungie wanted to give us everything we had hoped for, its just a shame we'll never get to see the godliness of what they had in store for us.
Go to www.bungie.net and look at the title for the halo 2 forums. They are called new mombasa. A level that doesnt even exist in the game (now). What kind of reasoning is there for that? Should that be reserved for halo 3 *cough* when you -might- actually get a chance to catch a glimpse of the city. Rubbish. Bungie said many times halo 2 would bringe closure and there would be no halo 3. Bungie also said they would "never specify a release date for halo 2 until we are certain we could release a finished product." That statement was on their main website the day that the release date was accounced. So why would they set a date for themselves where they knew they wouldnt finish in time and be forced to take out all kinds of content? They wouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was kinda dissapointed how it didn't all take place on earth...
Comments
I was never a fan of Halo's singleplayer, but seeing that E3 trailer and movie,
if earth isn't as its showen there, it's really a dissapointment for me.
I could see microsoft doing it
the New Mombasa level looked to be one of the best levels in the game. the level looked like it could have been taken out of a movie. and i am <i>very </i>disappointed that they took it out.
i was also disappionted about the new vehicals being taken out. the guass hog would own the rocket hog so i can see why that was taken out. but the other vehicals would have still been fun to use.
being one of the covenant did add much to gameplay, becomming invisable didn't add as much to gameplay as i thought it would.
they are making halo 3 as a marketing stratagy for xbox 2.
make sense, more money for bungie
I played the single player, the multiplayer, and Xbox Live. It was fun for the first five minutes.
Also, Halo 2 needed more gravelly awesome Master Chief voice and sassy Cortana. Most of the dialogue was spoken by the Covenant.
i'm guessing the tentacle plant was a different form of the flood.
here is why..
halo is designed to destroy the food for the flood and the plant thing wants to stop that from happening. So it makes sense to assume that it is a form of the flood and it does not want its food source to be destroyed
That's quite true. Why would anyone do that to the game, though? I agree with most of his points, the focus was definitely on the invasion of earth and now we aren't seeing any of the promotional levels, none of the cinematics are in the real game, it's just wierd. I've been looking at Halo 2 promo material for well over 6-8 months now, and all of it is focused on earth... it just doesn't make sense to have one crappy earth level and the rest be Arbiter and space-based stuff. Even with MGS2's Raiden twist, you could look back and see where the original screenshots and such fit into the game, here there is nothing.
Often in game companies, ideas are tossed, entire levels are scrapped and things are re-written/re-used. Does this mean it's Microsoft's fault? I see no evidence it would be. Perhaps Halo 2 was going to come in over budget so they decided to pull some stuff. And it's easy to criticize how something handles when it's a demo of something...
This is not an unusual practice, and the answer points to lack of funds, lack of time, game production headed in a different direction..
As Tyr talks about in the inteview with Flay, one set of concept dox had the aliens all being human/animal organs...
OHNOES the heart is chasing me, attacking me with it's left ventricle!!!!
If people weren't happy with Halo 2 hopefully this will make them pause before buying Halo 3.. Nothing shocks a game manufacturer back to reality then sales figures coming in under predictions.
DAMN how you made that sound so evil-scheme-ish <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Jesus freaking christ on a go-kart.
You got your damned Half-Life 2 now bug off.
I'm really getting tired of the "LOLO PEE SEE GAMZ L0t BATER TEHN KONSOUL!!234" posts.
Seriously folks.
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They came in over budget so they took out one of the levels that had completely finished and replaced it with new ones? Wait, that takes <i>more</i> money.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They came in over budget so they took out one of the levels that had <span style='color:red'>completely finished </span>and replaced it with new ones? Wait, that takes <i>more</i> money.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he's got a point there......
i would also like to point out that they spent the money to completely change the story line, so that the game wouldn't completely take place on earth
Repeat after me: The XBox is not a console. it is a PC disguised as a console at best.
Also, Bugnie is dead. There is no more Bungie, there is only Microsoft.
Anyway, this reminds me of how the original Halo was compared to the pre-buyout promotional stuff.
assuming they changed everything because they were over budget......
It was most likely a complete sham, you could probably take a look around one corner that the demo'er wasn't supposed to turn and bam, void.
--Scythe--
It was most likely a complete sham, you could probably take a look around one corner that the demo'er wasn't supposed to turn and bam, void.
--Scythe-- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would think most people would do this so you get that better 2 fps when running it in sex me mode
I happen to agree that the ending that contradicted Bungie is a ploy to either get people to sign up for Live! to get a downloadable conclusion (there's a lot of talk about February 9th or some such date on the B.net forums) or buy Halo 3, which some B.net forumites think was developed alongside Halo 2 - but don't listen to them, most of those forumites are completely retarded, literally.
Halo 2 wowed me for the first few days, but now that the smoke has cleared I too am a bit disappointed with it.
This theory is worthy of investigation.
[edit]Extra Stuff I Forgot: About that Halo 3 development theory/accusation - there are a lot of things left unexplained from the "Coversations From the Universe" booklet that came with Halo 2. For example, in a coversation between two Elites they mention a "Sharquoi" race that is not listed as one of the races you face in Halo 2 and is not in the game. Also, there is mention of a human archaeologist who found a Forerunner structure beneath the ground on a colony world before (or if, considering there really WASN'T a full-scale invasion of Earth) the Covies destroyed it. Finally, there is a letter to John, the Master Chief, from Cassandra, saying that she is recovering from something and she looks forward to reading the stats of the Mark VI. No one knows who Cassandra is, and it's beginning to bother the B.net folks.[/edit]
What I'm a bit more concerned about, is how they specifically say the cut out scenes to shorten them...There is an A button, we can skip those if we want, you might as well put them in...
Now, on a continuing story, I'm fairly sure we can see where it's going.
[Plenty of spoilers flying around below, read only if you've played the game or don't care]
-The MC is back to Earth, in orbit no less; so he has a decent chance of ending up back in an orbiting station.
-Cortana is on Delta Halo, along with Gravemind (the plant thing).
-Gravemind is a flood, more out to show how smart the flood can be (didn't really show in the first game; but now they 'fly dropships' in the second to last level, use tactics...and Gravemind can plot stuff).
-Concievably enough, Gravemind is going to ask Cortana where Earth is [ending credits, where he wishes to ask her questions]. Probably try to take over her or something (seeing as the closer you got to the forerunner ship the more defensive the ships defenses got, so there's probably some kind of Flood AI construct which could prevent her from detonating the In Amber Clad).
-Earth is the location of 'the Ark' the controlling machine of the 7 (...6 remaining) halos, which are now ready to fire.
Referenced by:
The Covenent didn't expect humans to be on Earth (which is why they brought a small fleet of 15 or something ships), and why Regret is sorry for going to Earth before getting permission from the other prophets.
Guilty Spark references the Ark and the game has to revolve around (now) the Arbiter and Master Chief, and only one of them isn't there...
-The remaining prophets and brutes are now preparing an assault on Earth.
So the game will probably consist of MC suiting up (maybe they'll make his armor back to how it was...), the Covie fleet arriving, MC having to leave the orbital station and confront the Covies in places where they're not nuking the planet (particularily, where they landed the first time: New Mumbasa (because the Ark must be around there, if that's where they landed first)).
...Not quite sure where they'd go with it from there.
...but they could concieveably (very easily), make the next Halo all about battling inch by inch for parts of Earth.
That's what I think, anyway.
Commence organic sweep!
;D
1.) They were running out of ideas to make it good. You can only blow up so much of earth before it becomes repetative
2.) Programming it was getting to be a major headache.
I personally would have loved to see earth get a little blown up here and there but the Halo 2 thats there now will surfice. And watch the Documantary on the Collectors Edition if you can. Its very interesting.
So, there we are, right after we polished off the brute boss. We get the cut scene . . .
We get MC, sounding eerily like Marc Singer (the Beastmaster, of course) saying, "I'm here to finish this battle . . . "
So back in my living room, high fives all around.
"Ok . . . this is it . . . let's kick some ****!"
"&$%*#&in' A, man, let's go!"
We grab our controllers, lean forward, and . . . .
"Um."
"Are those . . . er . . . the credits? WTH?"
"Uh . . . yeah. I guess so."
Pause. Incredible disappointment fills the room.
"Er . . I kind of wish they'd given us a head's up that we'd be playing more than half the <b>frigging</b> game as a <b>frigging</b> alien."
So, the quick ending we were looking for did indeed arrive. Be careful what you wish for. And I'm pretty PO'd at Bungie/Microsoft/whichever idiot greenlighted this script.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1.) They were running out of ideas to make it good. You can only blow up so much of earth before it becomes repetative<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, because God forbid a Halo game featured a repetitive level <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My story goes as follows:
I playing through halo 2, and I just killed the Brute Boss. It was pretty late, and I had school in the morning, so I thought to myself "alright, I guess I'll watch this last video and go to bed, and just borrow an xbox and halo2 and finish it another day." (It wasn't my xbox or game.)
I watched MC suiting up once again to kick some ****, and I was sad that I couldn't finish it. Then, BAM, credits-in-yo-face.
Needless to say, I went to bed, feeling very unsatisfied and **** at bungie/whoever for making such a crappy sequel.