Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
If I had a next gen machine that could run it I would definitely purchase it. Not sure if I'd pre-purchase. However, I don't see upgrading my machine soon, so I'd have to say no. I refrained from voting.
What if NS2 will be a total flop? What if there's never going to be NS2? There goes my $25, no refunding. I don't want to gamble with my hard-earned money.
What if NS2 will be a total flop? What if there's never going to be NS2? There goes my $25, no refunding. I don't want to gamble with my hard-earned money. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its only $25...for NS....2
<!--QuoteBegin-noncomposmentis+Jan 18 2005, 12:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (noncomposmentis @ Jan 18 2005, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I voted no. I've been a member of the NS community since the day of its release and a constellation member to boot. There have been a lot of things to cheer about, but also a lot of disappointments. I don't regret donating to constellation to support a great mod. There are, however, different standards to be applied to a for-profit game company. I don't believe NS2 will bear fruit considering the management style exhibited during the development of NS.
Start-up companies in every industry face the same problem. You need to spend money to make money, so it goes. The fundamental idea of entrepreneurship is that you assume more of the risk and thus reap more of the rewards. I believe it is unethical to foist this risk onto your community, considering how unreasonable it is of them to be educated on the facts of the matter. I know revenue models like this have been tried before and I am unaware of how successful they were, but I can't see anything positive coming out of this in terms of reputation.
If you wanted an assessment of a start-up company in the games industry you didn't have to ask the investors how it would go. Every industry is dominated by those who have the money. It takes real business-savvy (which I honestly don't believe you have), not games-savvy (which I think you have) to maintain independance and succeed. There are, however, plenty of models for you to rely on. None of which, however, involve making people pay for a non-existant product. I suppose in this regard I actually blame the success of the constellation program.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This was a good post.
I need to point out though, that the pre-purchasing of games is a very well known thing. It's not new. I pre-purchased Shadowbane before it came out, and my friends have done the same with Diablo 2. The countless hundreds of thousands that pre-purchased WoW should go without saying. What I'm getting at is this model <b>has</b> been done successfully, the only difference is the game isn't literally being worked on right this second. If Flayra wants to *help* fund himself in this fashion, power too him. No one is forcing you to pre-purchase the game, 'noncomposmentis'.
I agree with you in the fact that it takes business savvy to make it in the industry. I also agree that Flayra probably doesn't have that, after all he's making games, not marketing them. I think signing a deal with a publisher might be a good idea, as long as you can retain the control you need to make the game good.
If you were to freeze frame right now and everyone who voted 'yes' without a cd and box were to pay, that's $14,100 (564 votes at time of posting). Not a whole lot on the grand scale.
I would also like to state that I'm apprehensive about so many projects happening at once (NS:S, NS2, NS singleplayer??, and NS itself). Flayra if you want my advice, consolidate it into a single project, and make that the best it can be.
In conclusion, after glancing at most of the pages since my first post here, I have to say I think a publisher would be the best idea. You need advertising. You need someone to help with the business aspect - employee salaries, equipment, location, bills, etc. You need all of these things and you should leave them up to the people who know what they're doing, you should continue making games the way you've done it for a couple years now.
Is a publisher that bad? They want the game to sell and make money, and games do that by being good. Your job is to make the game good, their job is to handle all the technical details from code to consumer.
Flay, I think if you look around you might find a publisher that sees the genius that is Natural Selection - just like all of us here do. Your game is unique. Take it to the next level, but do it <b>right</b>.
Sorry if this has already come up. I have been very bad and not read all 21 pages of posts.
I had another suggestion. $25 for the game is very good, provided that it actually gets off the ground.
Why not offer something concrete as well, that you can give people for their money and perhaps charge a little more?
For example charge $30 and make them constie members.
People who are preordering this game on a gamble are obviously doing it partially as support simply for the development of NS, so being a constie member would be a nice added bonus.
Heck, I think the game publishing business is becoming disturbinly like the music recording business, and that is not a good thing to get tied up in. Unfortunately, games cost money to make, and upstart game designers need to get something out there. Technically Flayra has already done this. The question is how he wants to procede. I personally like Valves "independent" system, however, it only works because they are already famous and have a huge player base. Sadly this basically means that inorder to get the kind of publicity needed for success you need marketing, aka a publisher. If there was a way around this dilema, that would be great, because I like supporting the makers of games, not the leachers.
Maybe a special bonus like a Collector's edition poster or something could be bundled for those who pre-purchased?
You could even have different levels of "bonuses" depending on contribution amount. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Chez+Jan 18 2005, 04:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chez @ Jan 18 2005, 04:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, due to their is no gaurentee and the fact that we never know what is going on with ns, the website and news are hardly ever updated so we are always left hanging, if I where to pre-order something, even though I do think ns is the best...I would have to currently say no because of the lack of notification the the existing NS, I have donated to the existing NS because I enjoy it and expect it to grow and improve, and if NS 2 where a sure fire thing sure I would donate, but I guess until then, nope. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Grammar++
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would also like to state that I'm apprehensive about so many projects happening at once (NS:S, NS2, NS singleplayer??, and NS itself). Flayra if you want my advice, consolidate it into a single project, and make that the best it can be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would also like to know how its going; is all the development of all the projects going smoothly? And if one works a little on each, does that not entail that the game would not reach up to its highest potential? As stated in an earlier post, good games sell. The better it is, the more it sells, the more money the company gets. Focusing on a single project would mean that the project would probably be better. An alternative would be work on a project for a spacific objective. Once it is achieved, go to the next. The important thing is, go one at a time.
If this is already done, u have my permission to spit at me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Your company has no reputation. Natural Selection superb game at first; but, it's just dying now. The excitement is gone, gameplay is downright boring, and the teams are horrendously unbalanced. There is hardly any organization in the company. Releases are delayed months; the new website supposedly taking a few days, takes a month. How can one trust such a company?
How can I, as of right now, prepay $25 for a game that has no information about it?
Make an NS2 constellation forum where you need to preorder it now to get in. Then maybe a year after the game's release reopen for further purchase into NS2's constellation.
<!--QuoteBegin-FCC+Jan 18 2005, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FCC @ Jan 18 2005, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As of now, no. In the near future, no.
Why?
Your company has no reputation. Natural Selection superb game at first; but, it's just dying now. The excitement is gone, gameplay is downright boring, and the teams are horrendously unbalanced. There is hardly any organization in the company. Releases are delayed months; the new website supposedly taking a few days, takes a month. How can one trust such a company?
How can I, as of right now, prepay $25 for a game that has no information about it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> FCC you bring up some valid points.
I need to inform you, although you should already know by Flayra's post and the news segment on the front page, that he is *NOT* offering this right now, he is looking for interest in it, given the current specific situation. He's not asking for your money right now, he just wants to know current community opinions. Surveying the battlefield, so to speak.
I'm sure he'll ask us again some months down the road when something has changed.
I guess I would. I've been playing since 1.03, and I wouldn't mind spending $25 to help the developers out. I mean, even if it all came for naught, I've blown $25 on things MUCH more trivial before, so eh.
I voted no. - To the NS krew: I have only spent money on one thing in my life that I really felt like I was screwed over on, and the reason is because I didn't think.. "Spending Wisely" I guess you could call it. Everything else I spend my money on, I know I will get at least an equal representation of my pay for how hard I work, and if I dont know that I will get equal representation of its face value, I will still have a very strong opinion on the purchase.
This poll may help make decisions, but this poll isn't going to be the object that determines wether NS2 is going to happen.
So really, the point I am trying to make is that I would be alot more likely to say yeah, I will pre-order NS2 for 50$ because that money means they are GOING to have a complete product rather than... hmm maybe we should straddle the fence even while we are already straddling the fence, because this is just an inquiry upon another one.
Its not really a pre-purchace if there is no product. Maybe it should be a little less sugar coated, and a little more real. mmm.... I am thinking "Donate to help make NS2 happen"
I'm afraid I'd have to say no, only because the certain situation surrounding the event that i did invest does not show up on the list. My reasons are on the lines of "need more info" except more like need a whole friggin mountain load more info. This kind of stuff does not simply cover the details of the gameplay or engine to be used. I'd need some kind of demographic statistics giving me some level of assurance that the game would be widely accepted. You would essentially have to show me enough that I can actually envision (with sound reason) myself playing an incredibly solid game with a multitude of other people. The reason the demographics are so important is simply because the more people that like the game, the more that would be willing to play multiplayer. If the multiplayer ends up sucking it up i'll have been disappointed with the investment.
Essentially if I'm to invest, I must be assured that the package in its ENTIRETY is going to be both gazed upon with awe, and I must be assured that a whole bunch of other poeple are going to feel the same way too. I honestly couldn't see this kind of thing happening without a technology priview at the very least... at which point I'm sure the whole pre-purchase / investment... thing... is moot. If we're to be asked to invest, we should be treated just like any other investor. I'm not talking contractual awards or anything, but there has to be clear incentive.
No, system requirements require me to ugrade my computer. Which I can't see happening anytime in the near future. However I fully support you in spirit.
</joking>
And honestly, I wouldn't 'pre-buy' into something before you released more details, concept sketches maybe a preview or something. And what Palin said.
<!--QuoteBegin-noncomposmentis+Jan 18 2005, 05:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (noncomposmentis @ Jan 18 2005, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+Jan 18 2005, 01:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Jan 18 2005, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-noncomposmentis+Jan 18 2005, 09:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (noncomposmentis @ Jan 18 2005, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I voted no. I've been a member of the NS community since the day of its release and a constellation member to boot. There have been a lot of things to cheer about, but also a lot of disappointments. I don't regret donating to constellation to support a great mod. There are, however, different standards to be applied to a for-profit game company. I don't believe NS2 will bear fruit considering the management style exhibited during the development of NS.
Start-up companies in every industry face the same problem. You need to spend money to make money, so it goes. The fundamental idea of entrepreneurship is that you assume more of the risk and thus reap more of the rewards. I believe it is unethical to foist this risk onto your community, considering how unreasonable it is of them to be educated on the facts of the matter. I know revenue models like this have been tried before and I am unaware of how successful they were, but I can't see anything positive coming out of this in terms of reputation.
If you wanted an assessment of a start-up company in the games industry you didn't have to ask the investors how it would go. Every industry is dominated by those who have the money. It takes real business-savvy (which I honestly don't believe you have), not games-savvy (which I think you have) to maintain independance and succeed. There are, however, plenty of models for you to rely on. None of which, however, involve making people pay for a non-existant product. I suppose in this regard I actually blame the success of the constellation program. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually I already spent all my savings making NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That in no way contradicts the validity of my points. I'm not trying to be an enemy here; I sincerely believe in the concept of NS and that it's something many people would like to play as a stand-alone game (and pay for). I'm just saying that I don't think it's right to raise money for its publication in this fashion. Nor do I think it's viable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you were being honest and fair. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I also said no with some of the things you stated in mind.
I'm somewhere inbetween *yes right now* and *yes with more info on the game*. About a month into this game I realised its better than games I've paid $50 or more for, and as soon as I realised I could donate(and that you get a funky icon <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->), I did. The fact that flayra n' co has been able to make such a great game with little funding is astounding, not to mention how they improved it over the past two years tirelessly, and with proper investors NS2 would definitely be worth $25 now. My only concern would be **** publishers ruining it by pushing forward release dates, before the game is "ready" (e.g. with WoW -_-. The game is like 75% finished, and its been retail for over a month <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) I'd just hate for a publisher to bring this on to such an obviously brilliant team.
my 2c <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm not sure if I would given that the $25 is probably in USD and would need to be sent to america (I'm in aus and am without CC <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->). One way to generate some more income could be to release a box version of NS1, I'd buy it for AU$30-40 un-questionably. NS is the best FPS game ever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> (except quake, nothin beats quake especially since without quake there'd be no HL and no HL = no NS <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
I would Preorder only if I was assured that if the game went to a publisher anyway, I would still get a copy of the game. Edited to add: Most publishers will not honor an agreement that is between you and the users. They will see it as something that has nothing to do with them but because they are the publisher, you will be prohibited from distributing the game yourselves. More info is definitely needed aswell. Will it run on source? Do you still need HL to play it? What kind of online hosting for games are we looking at? Steam? independent hosting from game hosts? My main concerns are based on online availability of servers, quality of online play and how stable the game is.
i voted yes. same reason as many already stated: i really like NS and I'm confident that charlie will produce a great game.
one question: have you asked valve if they would be willing to help you? i know, they are game developers and not a publisher, but i still believe that they could fund you. they have certainly earned enough money! they could publish NS2 over steam, you use the source engine as base of your game. they still would want a great deal of your profit (as any other publisher), but i think they would be much mor fair than any other investor. i know you want to bring NS2 into the stores so everybody could buy it, but be realistic - it's you first retail game... and being published over steam is not bad at all
I have not voted yet - but suffice it to say I would probably vote yes.
I do have a question / suggestion. It appears that you want to turn to your fan base (and rightly so) for some smaller investment possibilites. Why not pursue that avenue even further.
My suggestion would be something akin to the constalation forum - but rather an "investors forum". However, it wouldn't be a mear $25 that gains access - perhaps something closer to $1,000.
The idea would be to allow some of the higher paid single members a way to support you with the promise of some acutal dividens (this isn't a free $1000) while at the same time being able to give us some acual content in the forum, and perhaps beta testing privelages - etc.
I know you are looking into a lot of avenues, and have probably thought of something like this already, but you never know how many of your player base would be willing to invest in a game. I'm sure some of them (including myself) invest in stocks and such, and if the possibilities of a good return are there, this might not be a bad route to go!
<!--QuoteBegin-PerfectOne+Jan 19 2005, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PerfectOne @ Jan 19 2005, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess I would. I've been playing since 1.03, and I wouldn't mind spending $25 to help the developers out. I mean, even if it all came for naught, I've blown $25 on things MUCH more trivial before, so eh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm voting yes for this reason too... i have blown 25 bucks on total crap before and when it comes to the possibility of an AWSOME NEW GAME that know will rule since i love NS... i will blow 25$ for you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Anyway if you ever release NS on the source engine i would do it right away, i mean faster than right away ASAP NO QUESTIONS ASKED! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> edit... If you ever do tho, DONT BE LIKE VALVE... get someone to talk to your community about problems w/ the game and handle them (hell i would do this for FREE... seriously. If u asked me to answer questions about problems and explain your status in development i would do it right away!)
$25 is quite reasonable for NS2. I responded that I needed more info because ultimately, I'd only want it if it came out under Source engine, or something comparable. Since Flayra already said it'd probably be under Source, this is something of a moot point but, whatever...
I guess there are some other issues too. Would they provide updates and rebalances (nerfs) over time? I'd assume so. Would they hook in with VAC and anti-cheat measures? I'd assume so. Would it be paypal? I'd assume so. I assume too much.
Maybe they answered this already somewhere else though...?
I voted for more info...such as, where should I send the money? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My only reservation is the engine it's going to use.
Halflife 2? (since just about 95% of the NS community would have already got it) or UT or something similar?
People (well I guess I can only speak for myself) have confidence in the development team and their knowledge of the ins and outs of the HL engine, I'd assume using the hl2 engine would be the fastest for devel .. beh .. caught myself rambleing ..
Would using a different engine effect development time drastically? Hl2 imho is a pretty diverse, UT engine .. it a bit plasticy
Using a different engine would add a bit of extra cost to us, so for me .. HL2 + Pre Ordering NS2 = $25 where Doom3 + Pre Ordering NS2 = $80 or so <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
still babbling :/
Ok .. yes, I'd pre pay, but would be kicking myself if you come out and say you're gonna use the HL1 engine or Serious Sam heh
Comments
What if NS2 will be a total flop? What if there's never going to be NS2? There goes my $25, no refunding. I don't want to gamble with my hard-earned money.
What if NS2 will be a total flop? What if there's never going to be NS2? There goes my $25, no refunding. I don't want to gamble with my hard-earned money. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
its only $25...for NS....2
I would like to see more info though...
Start-up companies in every industry face the same problem. You need to spend money to make money, so it goes. The fundamental idea of entrepreneurship is that you assume more of the risk and thus reap more of the rewards. I believe it is unethical to foist this risk onto your community, considering how unreasonable it is of them to be educated on the facts of the matter. I know revenue models like this have been tried before and I am unaware of how successful they were, but I can't see anything positive coming out of this in terms of reputation.
If you wanted an assessment of a start-up company in the games industry you didn't have to ask the investors how it would go. Every industry is dominated by those who have the money. It takes real business-savvy (which I honestly don't believe you have), not games-savvy (which I think you have) to maintain independance and succeed. There are, however, plenty of models for you to rely on. None of which, however, involve making people pay for a non-existant product. I suppose in this regard I actually blame the success of the constellation program.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was a good post.
I need to point out though, that the pre-purchasing of games is a very well known thing. It's not new. I pre-purchased Shadowbane before it came out, and my friends have done the same with Diablo 2. The countless hundreds of thousands that pre-purchased WoW should go without saying. What I'm getting at is this model <b>has</b> been done successfully, the only difference is the game isn't literally being worked on right this second. If Flayra wants to *help* fund himself in this fashion, power too him. No one is forcing you to pre-purchase the game, 'noncomposmentis'.
I agree with you in the fact that it takes business savvy to make it in the industry. I also agree that Flayra probably doesn't have that, after all he's making games, not marketing them. I think signing a deal with a publisher might be a good idea, as long as you can retain the control you need to make the game good.
If you were to freeze frame right now and everyone who voted 'yes' without a cd and box were to pay, that's $14,100 (564 votes at time of posting). Not a whole lot on the grand scale.
I would also like to state that I'm apprehensive about so many projects happening at once (NS:S, NS2, NS singleplayer??, and NS itself). Flayra if you want my advice, consolidate it into a single project, and make that the best it can be.
In conclusion, after glancing at most of the pages since my first post here, I have to say I think a publisher would be the best idea. You need advertising. You need someone to help with the business aspect - employee salaries, equipment, location, bills, etc. You need all of these things and you should leave them up to the people who know what they're doing, you should continue making games the way you've done it for a couple years now.
Is a publisher that bad? They want the game to sell and make money, and games do that by being good. Your job is to make the game good, their job is to handle all the technical details from code to consumer.
Flay, I think if you look around you might find a publisher that sees the genius that is Natural Selection - just like all of us here do. Your game is unique. Take it to the next level, but do it <b>right</b>.
--Locane
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I had another suggestion. $25 for the game is very good, provided that it actually gets off the ground.
Why not offer something concrete as well, that you can give people for their money and perhaps charge a little more?
For example charge $30 and make them constie members.
People who are preordering this game on a gamble are obviously doing it partially as support simply for the development of NS, so being a constie member would be a nice added bonus.
I support NS, and I support Flayra's decisions.
You could even have different levels of "bonuses" depending on contribution amount. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Grammar++
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would also like to know how its going; is all the development of all the projects going smoothly? And if one works a little on each, does that not entail that the game would not reach up to its highest potential? As stated in an earlier post, good games sell. The better it is, the more it sells, the more money the company gets. Focusing on a single project would mean that the project would probably be better. An alternative would be work on a project for a spacific objective. Once it is achieved, go to the next. The important thing is, go one at a time.
If this is already done, u have my permission to spit at me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Why?
Your company has no reputation. Natural Selection superb game at first; but, it's just dying now. The excitement is gone, gameplay is downright boring, and the teams are horrendously unbalanced. There is hardly any organization in the company. Releases are delayed months; the new website supposedly taking a few days, takes a month. How can one trust such a company?
How can I, as of right now, prepay $25 for a game that has no information about it?
Why?
Your company has no reputation. Natural Selection superb game at first; but, it's just dying now. The excitement is gone, gameplay is downright boring, and the teams are horrendously unbalanced. There is hardly any organization in the company. Releases are delayed months; the new website supposedly taking a few days, takes a month. How can one trust such a company?
How can I, as of right now, prepay $25 for a game that has no information about it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FCC you bring up some valid points.
I need to inform you, although you should already know by Flayra's post and the news segment on the front page, that he is *NOT* offering this right now, he is looking for interest in it, given the current specific situation. He's not asking for your money right now, he just wants to know current community opinions. Surveying the battlefield, so to speak.
I'm sure he'll ask us again some months down the road when something has changed.
--Locane
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- To the NS krew: I have only spent money on one thing in my life that I really felt like I was screwed over on, and the reason is because I didn't think.. "Spending Wisely" I guess you could call it. Everything else I spend my money on, I know I will get at least an equal representation of my pay for how hard I work, and if I dont know that I will get equal representation of its face value, I will still have a very strong opinion on the purchase.
This poll may help make decisions, but this poll isn't going to be the object that determines wether NS2 is going to happen.
So really, the point I am trying to make is that I would be alot more likely to say yeah, I will pre-order NS2 for 50$ because that money means they are GOING to have a complete product rather than... hmm maybe we should straddle the fence even while we are already straddling the fence, because this is just an inquiry upon another one.
Its not really a pre-purchace if there is no product. Maybe it should be a little less sugar coated, and a little more real. mmm.... I am thinking "Donate to help make NS2 happen"
Essentially if I'm to invest, I must be assured that the package in its ENTIRETY is going to be both gazed upon with awe, and I must be assured that a whole bunch of other poeple are going to feel the same way too. I honestly couldn't see this kind of thing happening without a technology priview at the very least... at which point I'm sure the whole pre-purchase / investment... thing... is moot. If we're to be asked to invest, we should be treated just like any other investor. I'm not talking contractual awards or anything, but there has to be clear incentive.
</joking>
And honestly, I wouldn't 'pre-buy' into something before you released more details, concept sketches maybe a preview or something. And what Palin said.
Start-up companies in every industry face the same problem. You need to spend money to make money, so it goes. The fundamental idea of entrepreneurship is that you assume more of the risk and thus reap more of the rewards. I believe it is unethical to foist this risk onto your community, considering how unreasonable it is of them to be educated on the facts of the matter. I know revenue models like this have been tried before and I am unaware of how successful they were, but I can't see anything positive coming out of this in terms of reputation.
If you wanted an assessment of a start-up company in the games industry you didn't have to ask the investors how it would go. Every industry is dominated by those who have the money. It takes real business-savvy (which I honestly don't believe you have), not games-savvy (which I think you have) to maintain independance and succeed. There are, however, plenty of models for you to rely on. None of which, however, involve making people pay for a non-existant product. I suppose in this regard I actually blame the success of the constellation program. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I already spent all my savings making NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That in no way contradicts the validity of my points. I'm not trying to be an enemy here; I sincerely believe in the concept of NS and that it's something many people would like to play as a stand-alone game (and pay for). I'm just saying that I don't think it's right to raise money for its publication in this fashion. Nor do I think it's viable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you were being honest and fair. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I also said no with some of the things you stated in mind.
It was a good post... straight up no BS'n.
my 2c <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One way to generate some more income could be to release a box version of NS1, I'd buy it for AU$30-40 un-questionably. NS is the best FPS game ever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> (except quake, nothin beats quake especially since without quake there'd be no HL and no HL = no NS <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Edited to add:
Most publishers will not honor an agreement that is between you and the users. They will see it as something that has nothing to do with them but because they are the publisher, you will be prohibited from distributing the game yourselves.
More info is definitely needed aswell. Will it run on source? Do you still need HL to play it? What kind of online hosting for games are we looking at? Steam? independent hosting from game hosts? My main concerns are based on online availability of servers, quality of online play and how stable the game is.
one question: have you asked valve if they would be willing to help you? i know, they are game developers and not a publisher, but i still believe that they could fund you. they have certainly earned enough money!
they could publish NS2 over steam, you use the source engine as base of your game. they still would want a great deal of your profit (as any other publisher), but i think they would be much mor fair than any other investor.
i know you want to bring NS2 into the stores so everybody could buy it, but be realistic - it's you first retail game... and being published over steam is not bad at all
best regards and good luck!
I do have a question / suggestion. It appears that you want to turn to your fan base (and rightly so) for some smaller investment possibilites. Why not pursue that avenue even further.
My suggestion would be something akin to the constalation forum - but rather an "investors forum". However, it wouldn't be a mear $25 that gains access - perhaps something closer to $1,000.
The idea would be to allow some of the higher paid single members a way to support you with the promise of some acutal dividens (this isn't a free $1000) while at the same time being able to give us some acual content in the forum, and perhaps beta testing privelages - etc.
I know you are looking into a lot of avenues, and have probably thought of something like this already, but you never know how many of your player base would be willing to invest in a game. I'm sure some of them (including myself) invest in stocks and such, and if the possibilities of a good return are there, this might not be a bad route to go!
*leaves while humming "can't buy me loooooove!"
I'm voting yes for this reason too... i have blown 25 bucks on total crap before and when it comes to the possibility of an AWSOME NEW GAME that know will rule since i love NS... i will blow 25$ for you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway if you ever release NS on the source engine i would do it right away, i mean faster than right away ASAP NO QUESTIONS ASKED! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit...
If you ever do tho, DONT BE LIKE VALVE... get someone to talk to your community about problems w/ the game and handle them (hell i would do this for FREE... seriously. If u asked me to answer questions about problems and explain your status in development i would do it right away!)
I guess there are some other issues too. Would they provide updates and rebalances (nerfs) over time? I'd assume so. Would they hook in with VAC and anti-cheat measures? I'd assume so. Would it be paypal? I'd assume so. I assume too much.
Maybe they answered this already somewhere else though...?
stooopsy
Halflife 2? (since just about 95% of the NS community would have already got it)
or UT or something similar?
People (well I guess I can only speak for myself) have confidence in the development team and their knowledge of the ins and outs of the HL engine, I'd assume using the hl2 engine would be the fastest for devel .. beh .. caught myself rambleing ..
Would using a different engine effect development time drastically?
Hl2 imho is a pretty diverse, UT engine .. it a bit plasticy
Using a different engine would add a bit of extra cost to us, so for me .. HL2 + Pre Ordering NS2 = $25 where Doom3 + Pre Ordering NS2 = $80 or so <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
still babbling :/
Ok .. yes, I'd pre pay, but would be kicking myself if you come out and say you're gonna use the HL1 engine or Serious Sam heh