<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jan 27 2005, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jan 27 2005, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of Dooom+Jan 27 2005, 03:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of Dooom @ Jan 27 2005, 03:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you ruin the game for other people who want to do MC first. Did it ever occure to you that maybe other people tried unchained and didn't like, and thats why they play on chained servers. or is that to simple for you to realise. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right... Next time i do it I'll drop a MC and see what happens.
As for people not liking unchained servers... i haven't ran into anyone that didn't like balance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I haven't ran into anyone that didn't like balance to. And they hate unchained servers since its unbalanced. so they play chained servers. but I mean, any intellegent admin would ban you on sight for doing that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Jan 28 2005, 05:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Jan 28 2005, 05:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Jan 28 2005, 04:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Jan 28 2005, 04:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd really much like to see these "good players" some of you claim to be owning as a fade. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> who are you?
Watch a demo. "Good fades" die all the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He's pneumatic crab. And while I agree with his sentiment that under ideal conditions good fades practically never die and take down anything with their team, a few good marines can keep a 1 Hive Fade at bay though (and Prototech and/or HMGs can deal with 2 Hive Fades more or less) - and now and then, even the smoothest movers will run into a CC block, a marine or snag a corner or any combination of these things and die. It doesn't take more than 0.5 seconds of screwing up in classic (in a match obviously).
I'd like everyone in this thread to be aware that Knife, the TOP EUROPEAN CLAN, just lost 14 count them, 14 freaking fades in one round in the open cup championship.
Every single one of you who said fades are overpowered, i DARE you to go download that demo from amped.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
In combat the only problem I find, given the player count is a reasonable (read: Not over 8 per team), is that resupply makes JPs a pain until a fade or lerk has focus, focus super D upgraded fades are real tanks, and a super D upgraded onos is bloody impossible to kill unless you get someone in the hive with a JP/HMG and wait on it to redeem. Hive 3 weapons are also pretty ridiculous, namely web and xeno. It's so easy to get them in combat, and they were designed to be game enders in classic, they really screw up marines. I think the power of all the D upgrades on the fade and onos are the main issue though, webs are breakable and xeno keeps skulk numbers down when people actually make it into the hive room. Aliens on most servers are near unstoppable given these advantages.
All Higher Lifeforms like Fade, and Onos, and on Marine team JP and HA, should be limited determined by player number on both teams, hear me out this is just a simple suggestion
<u>Marine Team Limits</u> 2 Players=1 HA, 1 Jetpack 4 Players=2 HA, 1 Jetpack 6 Players=3 HA, 1 Jetpack 8 Players=3 HA, 2 Jetpack 10 Players=4 HA, 2 Jetpack 12 Players=4 HA, 3 Jetpack 14 Players=5 HA, 3 Jetpack 16 Players=6 HA, 4 Jetpack
The Concept comes from, that the HA is a direct counter to Fade, while the Onos is Direct Counter to HA, but JP is direct counter to Onos, so you can't have whole team of HA Or JP, there always should be light armoured marines(this can be helpful, they can have Mines, Grenades, Welder, Armour Ups etc, but sacrificing it for either armour or mobility). This way, both Teams Low-level Lifeforms have chance at survial, as there are always some lifeform that matches them(well expect on 2 players, but i doubt anyone plays combat like that). Also usually the best players get the best stuff, so the worse players are actually forced to co-operate with the best, so they get optimum amount of cover, and atleast survieve battles.
<!--QuoteBegin-Beretta+Jan 27 2005, 11:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beretta @ Jan 27 2005, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tbh a skulk with all upgrade can never really equal a fade as one lucky nade or 5/6 shots of a lvl 3 hmg kill it . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> obviously u've never seen a real good skulker (not that im one or anything)
<!--QuoteBegin-UEACobra+Jan 31 2005, 02:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UEACobra @ Jan 31 2005, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Beretta+Jan 27 2005, 11:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beretta @ Jan 27 2005, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tbh a skulk with all upgrade can never really equal a fade as one lucky nade or 5/6 shots of a lvl 3 hmg kill it . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> obviously u've never seen a real good skulker (not that im one or anything) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no he's right, even the best skulkers can't match scores with the best faders
Yea, no matter how ninja-like the skulk may be, the fade will almost always kill 2 - 3 before a skulk kills 1 Leap is much more easier to hit than blink...
to solve this fade problem, might I suggest an acceleration time for blink.... say from moment of initiation, the fade moves at 2x his normal speed...and in 1-2 seconds time, he accelerates to normal blink speed? numbers subject to tweakage but you see my point? Fade can still be a hit and run unit, but requires more skill, and can be countered by teamwork
The only problem with combat is the fact that players can get a whole lot more upgrades. How about this, make combat just like classic in that aliens can only get 1 upgrade from each chamber type (1 defense, 1 sensory, 1 movement) and all of the hive abilities. Then change resupply so that it operates on a timer rather then when you use ammo/get hit (to compensate for aliens getting nerfed). To those that think this would really screw aliens over, it wouldn't, it would just mean that aliens can't go redemption/cara/regen/celerity/everything onos (for those servers with plugins that allow it) and rack up a bunch of kills without any effort. I've been doing it for months and it is by no means hard (provided you don't run straight into rooms with 4-5 hmgers).
i personally think skulks are a lot better, skulks dont get caught leaping around corners as much as fades do, and they can get out of a room faster
ive seen many fades (even good fades) get caught trying to blink out of a room, they either blink too high and hit the top of the door, or a smart marine stands in the middle of the door and blocks the fade in=dead fade, skulks can at least xeno if they get stuck in the room (provided they r fast enought to stay alive, which they will if there are other aliens in the room)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (UEACobra @ Jan 31 2005, 02:19 PM) QUOTE (Beretta @ Jan 27 2005, 11:20 PM) Tbh a skulk with all upgrade can never really equal a fade as one lucky nade or 5/6 shots of a lvl 3 hmg kill it .
obviously u've never seen a real good skulker (not that im one or anything)
no he's right, even the best skulkers can't match scores with the best faders <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is this, a,lets say, carapace celerity leap skulk dies to one grenade from a gl, an unupgraded fade will definately kil a gl user
The same skulk dies in, what, 7 hmg hits fade takes 30 hits, ok skulk hitbox is half the size you could say, but with fade crouch hitbox being bugged there is little diffference there, possibly a slight benefit to the fade because people cant hit his top half.
also, even a top player vs crap marines WILL die as skulk, through a lucky grenade or shotgun shot or a small spray of hmg, fade wont.
<!--QuoteBegin-UEACobra+Feb 3 2005, 02:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UEACobra @ Feb 3 2005, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i personally think skulks are a lot better, skulks dont get caught leaping around corners as much as fades do, and they can get out of a room faster
ive seen many fades (even good fades) get caught trying to blink out of a room, they either blink too high and hit the top of the door, or a smart marine stands in the middle of the door and blocks the fade in=dead fade, skulks can at least xeno if they get stuck in the room (provided they r fast enought to stay alive, which they will if there are other aliens in the room) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that scenario implies that the skulks has the xeno abillity, but if the fade had its third hive skill Acid rocket, then why would it even go in the room in the first place when it could just spam acid and melt some marine flesh.... granted it kinda sucks now and nothing like the great base buster it use to be... but still... fun as heck spamming down marines with 100s of Acid ball thingies
Comments
Right... Next time i do it I'll drop a MC and see what happens.
As for people not liking unchained servers... i haven't ran into anyone that didn't like balance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't ran into anyone that didn't like balance to. And they hate unchained servers since its unbalanced. so they play chained servers. but I mean, any intellegent admin would ban you on sight for doing that.
who are you?
Watch a demo. "Good fades" die all the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's pneumatic crab. And while I agree with his sentiment that under ideal conditions good fades practically never die and take down anything with their team, a few good marines can keep a 1 Hive Fade at bay though (and Prototech and/or HMGs can deal with 2 Hive Fades more or less) - and now and then, even the smoothest movers will run into a CC block, a marine or snag a corner or any combination of these things and die. It doesn't take more than 0.5 seconds of screwing up in classic (in a match obviously).
Every single one of you who said fades are overpowered, i DARE you to go download that demo from amped.
That way it's more of a transport from A to B instead of a hit and run ability.
Onos is a little more worth a skulk while a
Fade is worth everything - if you happen to be able to play it.
I'd say, switch fade with onos, and the story is told.
<u>Alien Team Limits</u>
2 Players=1 Fade, 1 Onos
4 Players=2 Fade, 1 Onos
6 Players=3 Fade, 1 Onos
8 Players=3 Fade, 2 Onos
10 Players=4 Fade, 2 Onos
12 Players=4 Fade, 3 Onos
14 Players=5 Fade, 3 Onos
16 Players=6 Fade, 4 Onos
<u>Marine Team Limits</u>
2 Players=1 HA, 1 Jetpack
4 Players=2 HA, 1 Jetpack
6 Players=3 HA, 1 Jetpack
8 Players=3 HA, 2 Jetpack
10 Players=4 HA, 2 Jetpack
12 Players=4 HA, 3 Jetpack
14 Players=5 HA, 3 Jetpack
16 Players=6 HA, 4 Jetpack
The Concept comes from, that the HA is a direct counter to Fade, while the Onos is Direct Counter to HA, but JP is direct counter to Onos, so you can't have whole team of HA Or JP, there always should be light armoured marines(this can be helpful, they can have Mines, Grenades, Welder, Armour Ups etc, but sacrificing it for either armour or mobility). This way, both Teams Low-level Lifeforms have chance at survial, as there are always some lifeform that matches them(well expect on 2 players, but i doubt anyone plays combat like that). Also usually the best players get the best stuff, so the worse players are actually forced to co-operate with the best, so they get optimum amount of cover, and atleast survieve battles.
obviously u've never seen a real good skulker (not that im one or anything)
obviously u've never seen a real good skulker (not that im one or anything) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no he's right, even the best skulkers can't match scores with the best faders
Leap is much more easier to hit than blink...
to solve this fade problem, might I suggest an acceleration time for blink....
say from moment of initiation, the fade moves at 2x his normal speed...and in 1-2 seconds time, he accelerates to normal blink speed?
numbers subject to tweakage but you see my point?
Fade can still be a hit and run unit, but requires more skill, and can be countered by teamwork
This would also inhibit the use of fade "flying"
ive seen many fades (even good fades) get caught trying to blink out of a room, they either blink too high and hit the top of the door, or a smart marine stands in the middle of the door and blocks the fade in=dead fade, skulks can at least xeno if they get stuck in the room (provided they r fast enought to stay alive, which they will if there are other aliens in the room)
QUOTE (Beretta @ Jan 27 2005, 11:20 PM)
Tbh a skulk with all upgrade can never really equal a fade as one lucky nade or 5/6 shots of a lvl 3 hmg kill it .
obviously u've never seen a real good skulker (not that im one or anything)
no he's right, even the best skulkers can't match scores with the best faders <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is this, a,lets say, carapace celerity leap skulk dies to one grenade from a gl,
an unupgraded fade will definately kil a gl user
The same skulk dies in, what, 7 hmg hits fade takes 30 hits, ok skulk hitbox is half the size you could say, but with fade crouch hitbox being bugged there is little diffference there, possibly a slight benefit to the fade because people cant hit his top half.
also, even a top player vs crap marines WILL die as skulk, through a lucky grenade or shotgun shot or a small spray of hmg, fade wont.
ive seen many fades (even good fades) get caught trying to blink out of a room, they either blink too high and hit the top of the door, or a smart marine stands in the middle of the door and blocks the fade in=dead fade, skulks can at least xeno if they get stuck in the room (provided they r fast enought to stay alive, which they will if there are other aliens in the room) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that scenario implies that the skulks has the xeno abillity, but if the fade had its third hive skill Acid rocket, then why would it even go in the room in the first place when it could just spam acid and melt some marine flesh.... granted it kinda sucks now and nothing like the great base buster it use to be... but still... fun as heck spamming down marines with 100s of Acid ball thingies