No More Def Towers At First Hive!
Trevelyan_006
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3876Banned
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3876Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">Sensory people... Sensory</div> Screw def towers, get sensory first and own the marines with stealth tacitics, no need to heal off turrets so often if you kill them coming out of their base cause they almost step on you and you turn and nail them!!!!
PLZ all consider going sensory towers first, then def at second hive....
PLZ all consider going sensory towers first, then def at second hive....
Comments
A stealth skulk can kill far more marines than a regenerating one, because a stealth skulk can hide right out in the open and wait for the marine to walk on them. A regenarating skulk doesn't really last much longer than a normal one because it's always getting shot at!
Arg.
Adv. Hive sight: Marine hiding in a darkened room? Some structure you can't see too well? No problem, activate this baby and they're lit up like a torch.
Scent of Fear: Works WONDERS for lerks, especially if they're at third-hive levels. I can't tell you the number of marines I've killed without being seen. If a marine's hurt AT ALL, you get to see them on hive sight. Then you can use spore cloud to kill them while they wonder where the hell you are. Also useful for any alien class in that even if you don't have cloaking, you expand your sphere of awareness more and can react better to changes in your environment. Also, since most alien attacks are designed to REALLY hurt marines bad on the first hit, usually scent of fear indicates a near-death marine that'll be easy pickins.
Cloaking: Well, you said it doesn't suck so I have nothing to counter here, but...
Frodo's 2 cents about cloaking:
It's amazingly useful when you've only got one hive, early in the game. Many times the aliens can achieve an easy win by sending a well-trained skulk death commando into the marine base to munch on the CC. When the commander pops out, the skulk quickly dispatches him and then cloaks when he respawns... as soon as he's back in the CC and thinks he's safe (or stops to weld it and turns his back to you) you can begin munching again. This is a way of winning games within 15 minutes or so, and it's brutally effective.
The usefulness of the different chambers all depends on your ability as a player to adapt to different styles of play. If you limit yourself to just being able to play well with defensive chambers, so be it. You've crippled yourself and your team. If you can play with any style of chamber you can claim a huge advantage on the marines.
Scent of Fear: Works WONDERS for lerks, especially if they're at third-hive levels. I can't tell you the number of marines I've killed without being seen. If a marine's hurt AT ALL, you get to see them on hive sight. Then you can use spore cloud to kill them while they wonder where the hell you are.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, you can see a marine in a darkened room. I have not YET had a mraine hide unnoticed in a room. Turn up the contrast/brightness, and presto! Instant level 3 Adv. Hive sight! Wow, and not a single resource used.
Scent of fear.
The only use you mention for it is level 3 lerks with the spore bomb/cloud.
Your team would be stupid not to get all 3 upgrades when you had all 3 hives.
The original post is about FIRST HIVE, NOT ON THE THIRD HIVE.
Why Scent of fear sucks as a first hive ability:
You are all skulks. You either kill the marine or die without touching them most of the time. As long as you have decent reactions, being able to be hit 1-2 more times than usual is MUCH more useful than seeing that the marines are hiding exactly where they were when your friend died fighting them 15 seconds ago. Wow, still trying to get that resource nozzle+turrets up? How did I guess? Must be psychic.
Get over it.
Defense: to keep the turrets alive (possibly wall of lame 1 exit to marine base ala ns_bast) while your scrounging up res. Also lets hit and run skulks live much longer.
Movement: Lerks and fades are going to start showing up and they NEED adrenaline.
Sensory: Hell, the games over already do it if you want.
I think we both went sensory first. It's better, if you need reasons check 2 days back on the www.shambler.net forums. We talked about it alot. Also think I mention it in the newest shambler.net article as well.
Ok i play gorge almost every game. WHy? Because i LOVE to stack towers. Thats it. But the only way to make a GOOD stack, one that will last the marines early attempts to get to YOUR hive, you know, the one that RESPAWNS you when you die? well for that you need DEFENSE TOWERS!! Why? "Oh marines suck early game!!" no. Not true. Marines have something called the "Shotgun" This baby, as marine posts say, and the numbers hardcoded into the game say, does 160 damage with all pellets finding target! and that marine with the shottie, is gonna pop around the corner, fire a shot and pop back. and with a team of them, good chance that your CLOAKED **obscenity** is'nt getting NEAR them, depending on where the O towers are. ok so now instead I have defense towers up. Now, with 4 D towers with my O towers, all my towers regen about 105 health a tick, soooooooo my towers last maybe 80% longer or so. Not good hard math, but good enough for now. OK sense chambers will parasite them.
...........
um, anyone else wanna tell these guys with a hard on for cloak that keeping that first hive, while your gorges are off building res and that oh so valueable second hive, is more important than them getting a bunch of extra kills? also something ive noticed alot is that no one, execpt ppl who want to get to the next map or something, wants to have the skulk rush WIN int hat first round of rushing. I will admit I have been the skulk to finish them off once we kill all there hastely built crap in base after a good first rush, but no, i didnt have THAT much fun. Not half as much fun as going gorge almost the entire game, then switching to lurk to go and survey the MASS of towers i've built <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> so, for the LONG RUN WIN, go with defense towers. belive me, cloak is USEFULL and yes early game it ROXORZ, BUT if you want an early game win, sure, go sense and cloak to your little hearts content, but personally i am here to PLAY, not get a super easy win, because a load of kamakazie skulks want cloak. I Miss my fav maps allt he time, because skulks get rush wins, and most servers, 2 or 3 rounds and your toast. Anyway ima stop now, but hey if you see me ona server, and you gotta hard on for cloak, dont ask me, im here for the long run game, not the quick DIRTY win.
#1 Sensory Chambers do not suck. They are awesome.
#2 Defensive > Movement > Sensory is still the best way to go. That doesn't mean Sensory sucks, it just means that the aliens benefit more from having Defensive early, Movement mid game, and Sensory for the final showdown.
Three-celerity Skulks tend to be so fast that being shot at isn't really a problem anymore, Lerks become useful in the early game (spikestrafing can be considered the most powerful one hive attack), and a cleverly layed out net of chambers rivals phasegates in terms of mobility.
But Yes your right about the skulks with celerity. Moveing faster is SOOO good......
Celerity+ <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> =Dead <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
But I have to ask how having move chambers everywhere really help that much, it only teles back to a hive, not the front lines. Not THAT usefull.....
Oh well good enough for early game on a REALLY big map.....
And when you are playing alien, the <b>most crucial</b> thing to defend is the hive. Having movment chambers setup around the map (not just at hives) allows aliens to retreat and defend the hive, or any nearby resource towers.
Celerity makes skulks more difficult to kill than carapace does, and silence is almost better than cloaking, since they cannot even hear you fall from the ceiling, or splash through the sewer water.
If your team is playing well (skulks attacking, one gorge getting nozzles), you'll have your second hive before you really need defense chambers anyway.
Every area we intend to keep should go up with some defence, a few offence chambers on their own won't even hold out against basic spawned frontiersmen.
WollyBoy stated it best from the gorges viewpoint, I'm not much of an gorge myself but I do know if you build sensory first the aliens are gonna have a tough time, god forbid movement comes out second.
Someone said it before but we're gonna keep trying till they see;
Defence, Movement, Sensory
There is NO other way.
Not exactly.
I was saying that there was ONE good sensory early-game skill.
That does not cut it compared to def towers and.
Three-celerity Skulks tend to be so fast that being shot at isn't really a problem anymore, Lerks become useful in the early game (spikestrafing can be considered the most powerful one hive attack), and a cleverly layed out net of chambers rivals phasegates in terms of mobility.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was playing a game where someone built movement chambers 1st. The entire Kharaa team was yelling because of this supposed blunder.
AS the game progressed we quickly learned that having Movement as the 1st chamber can be extreamly usefull. The skulks are much more effective since they can now dodge machine guns much easier.
So, try building movement chambers first. It seems to work fairly well.
Three-celerity Skulks tend to be so fast that being shot at isn't really a problem anymore, Lerks become useful in the early game (spikestrafing can be considered the most powerful one hive attack), and a cleverly layed out net of chambers rivals phasegates in terms of mobility.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that movement first would be good, however we need the RS for D chambers to heal various things.
D chambers give you the ability to take more damage, celerity the ability to avoid it. they are both indispensable mid to late game, but in the beginning, I'd go with carapace. Celerity becomes more usefull when they have HMG, then avoiding damage is #1 priority. Taking down marines with small-clipped LMGs is easy with carapace. and the gorgs can have redemption to keep from losing their RS points. skulks are fast enough at getting around the map, movement chambers aren't necessary.
Either way, cloak is for campers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
if your the type of skulk that likes to not rush in the defense of every structure under attack, and kill all the marines there, but instead wait someplace for a marine that isn't causing trouble, that may never come, to walk by so you can nab a kill....then I don't want you on my team <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
camping marine spawn is fine, but the MOMENT one marine gets out, hes going to build turrets and set up a base, so you better be either perfect at camping that spawn, or be good at taking out marines on the move(i.e. celerity/carapace).
And I'm tired of some impudent NSPlayer that goes gorge and builds sensory second so he can get his kiLLz. Then I can't umbra in the middle of a base immediately and take out a turret factory. I never see them helping like that.
(Theres nothing so funny (or frustrating) as flying into the middle of a base, trying to umbra, seeing your energy going down but not actually letting out the umbra, then dying.)
S first cause cloaking is so much better. I usually play gorge and I would rather it if I can't been seen when I'm building stuff. Sure they can hear me but you can hear lots of stuff through walls also you can just stop building and wait for them to pass. (The smart marine group would not attack if they are planning something... like a attack on the hive). Also, in most games that I've played marines rarely make a huge attack until aliens have the 2nd hive up.
D second because well... you'll need them to fight the marine's bullets. Also its very useful for saving 33/44 rps.
M last because 3 hives is hard to defend on foot. So teleporting is always good. Also its the last hive so why not. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
S -> D -> M is my config. except I'm usually FORCED to listen to these non-strat ppl.
Sure you may THINK you need D chambers to heal your O chambers, but with S chambers you can tell if an enemy is coming near (I bet most ppl forget or don't know that S chambers can "see" enemies not only parasiting them if they touch it) and you can save those O chambers the trouble of shooting a single shot.
Also, someone said with 4 D chambers your O chambers will get back 105 hp a tick.... Wow RTFM man! D chambers only heal 10 hp a tick each. And any # of D chambers over 3 DO NOT STACK (much.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> They still stack but don't heal as much)
EDIT: Don't forget about <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=10927' target='_blank'>this topic</a>. (Named "Skulk Kamikazi", FORGET YOUR FRAG COUNT! )
None of the first three alien classes need any of the D chamber upgrades, even Carapace on a Skulk is <i>at least</i> matched in effectiveness by Cloaking, Scent of Fear, Celerity and Silence.
I've actually wanted to try movement first because i figure you dont need defense till you get your 2nd hive up and begin big assaults and lvl 3 cerelity skulks are so scary it isnt even funny. Im just afraid if I built movement first that I would be publicly exucuted on the spot for altering the precious build order.
bottom line Sensory owns in the earily game but what do you do in the mid game? your stuck with it now
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