Skilled player who Rambos instead of reinforcing a PG trying to take down a hive = teh_lose. Your l33t aiming skill does not help the team when it is focused solely on idiot alien players or gorges on the other side of the map. It would, however, go a long way in protecting other Marines from getting raped, allowing them to shoot or siege the hive quickly and more successfully.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rushakra+Feb 10 2005, 10:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rushakra @ Feb 10 2005, 10:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skilled player who Rambos instead of reinforcing a PG trying to take down a hive = teh_lose. Your l33t aiming skill does not help the team when it is focused solely on idiot alien players or gorges on the other side of the map. It would, however, go a long way in protecting other Marines from getting raped, allowing them to shoot or siege the hive quickly and more successfully. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But if the rest of the marine team is taking down a building hive, wouldnt it be cool ot have a good player block the path there and kill any skulk trying to reinforce?
Yeh, thought so.
[Edit] I think the problem here is that most people just dont understand how a player can effect a situation in place A by doing things at B. Spawncamping the hive gives the rest of your team free reign of the map. Pressuring cargo on ns_veil means that the marines taking down dbl rts are safe. If you have a player going 15-0 to the next best players 6-7, perhaps you should consider if that players obvious experience makes the game tell him something else than it tells you. Like why standing in cargo when the hive is waste while two teammates are taking down acidic might be a good idea.
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Feb 10 2005, 10:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 10 2005, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But if the rest of the marine team is taking down a building hive, wouldnt it be cool ot have a good player block the path there and kill any skulk trying to reinforce? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And what if the Skulks are taking an alternate route to the hive? The rambo is once again being useless, scoring miniscule amounts of RFK that won't cover the costs of PG, TF, upgrade, and sieges should the attempt at taking down the hive fail.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rushakra+Feb 10 2005, 10:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rushakra @ Feb 10 2005, 10:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Feb 10 2005, 10:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 10 2005, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But if the rest of the marine team is taking down a building hive, wouldnt it be cool ot have a good player block the path there and kill any skulk trying to reinforce? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And what if the Skulks are taking an alternate route to the hive? The rambo is once again being useless, scoring miniscule amounts of RFK that won't cover the costs of PG, TF, upgrade, and sieges should the attempt at taking down the hive fail. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Once again, perhaps that obviously superior player knows something you dont?
You dont start racking up three times the kills of everyone else on the server if you're not better than them. And it does require a certain feel of the game, a knowledge of how to position yourself and where to move to be the most effective.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
If the skulks are going and alternate route, then the rambo is in the wrong place, and is obviously not a very skilled rambo when it comes to keeping the alien team busy. We're talking about *good* rambos (and hence by association, good players) so they should be able ot rack up enough kills to keep the aliens in the spawn queue, giving the rest of the team more time to set up up seige. Or, if the aliens are totally bent on avoiding that rambo, then wow! you've just got someone who is completely free to take down alien res nodes/chambers, or even ninja a PG to another hive.
Good rambos know where to go at what time, and can shoot well enough to keep the enemy busy. They are indispensable.
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Feb 10 2005, 10:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 10 2005, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Rushakra+Feb 10 2005, 10:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rushakra @ Feb 10 2005, 10:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skilled player who Rambos instead of reinforcing a PG trying to take down a hive = teh_lose. Your l33t aiming skill does not help the team when it is focused solely on idiot alien players or gorges on the other side of the map. It would, however, go a long way in protecting other Marines from getting raped, allowing them to shoot or siege the hive quickly and more successfully. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But if the rest of the marine team is taking down a building hive, wouldnt it be cool ot have a good player block the path there and kill any skulk trying to reinforce?
Yeh, thought so.
[Edit] I think the problem here is that most people just dont understand how a player can effect a situation in place A by doing things at B. Spawncamping the hive gives the rest of your team free reign of the map. Pressuring cargo on ns_veil means that the marines taking down dbl rts are safe. If you have a player going 15-0 to the next best players 6-7, perhaps you should consider if that players obvious experience makes the game tell him something else than it tells you. Like why standing in cargo when the hive is waste while two teammates are taking down acidic might be a good idea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Meh, the point would be im the comm and im running my strat...
I can better aid the marines who are following what i want them to do because i have MY plan in MY head and i can work with it..
Rambos screw me up in that i cant concentrate on my goal of keeping my mates alive, ordering them, droppin sieges, tfs, welders, meds, phases, guns, telling them when to go in, scanning... and all that hectic ****
Cuz of a rambo, who no matter how benefitial he may be in stemming reinforcements to the hive (best case scenario) Im less effective in my goal..
Case 1. That rambo not being there results in the loss of the phase, its completely speculative but logical since one more body would have meant more bullets and more bites until all the marines are down
Case 2. That marine stems off the reinforcements to a hive that we would otherwise have lost the phase gate whether he was there or not, once again speculative...
It comes down to one thing, im the comm, its my damn strategy, do what i ask (if i dont directly say phase, or give any orders, it means ur doing fine and im working elsewhere, so do whateverthe **** you please, but if i give you an order, please friggin do it, cuz i can only multitask so much, and i hate losing a pg while im off dropping half my rambo **** heads meds/ammo, even if they kill 80 percent of the alien reinforcements, there still could be an onos that gets the pg down with 200hp left, which that idiot rambo(s) could haev killed and enough people would still be alive to kill the 80 percent of the alien team..(speculative)
Everyhing above is speculative, the point is, im the comm, and i need to make the strategies, because no matter how adaptive i am, adaption takes time, and 3 seconds of re formulating a plan for a rambo who wont listen could mean a win or loss of the game(again speculative, but you get my point)
<!--QuoteBegin-j3st+Feb 10 2005, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (j3st @ Feb 10 2005, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> even though your marines may find hive rushing and hand grenades fun, they gonna be bored as hell when u let them die a million times before they get to do something fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hehehe... id invite you to the NSA server.... where sometimes i cant even command my team on these types of rushes because there so giggly over the voicecomm yelling and screaming and laughing and working together and welding and shooting and dying..... Meh... FUN ****
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
SDJason you still don't get it do you? This is not a discussion about rambos, nor about following orders. Remember, we were talking about marines keeping themselves alive. The point is, in virtually every strategy you choose as comm, a marine can accomplish at least equally well (and usually way better) by staying alive than by dying.
Phase now? sure! I'll phase thru and kill the aliens, saving the phase, while the guy who phased thru and died...did jack squat.
You seem dead bent on the idea that anyone who has a high K:D ratio is ignoring your orders. Sheesh
So... You should be able to rambo yourself to rt's and slash em' up and whenever skulks come and try to bite your head off you must be able to kill em and the rt? Kinda skilled <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Oizon+Feb 11 2005, 03:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Oizon @ Feb 11 2005, 03:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So... You should be able to rambo yourself to rt's and slash em' up and whenever skulks come and try to bite your head off you must be able to kill em and the rt? Kinda skilled <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is exactly what good marines can do, although they usually do that in a group. so the nodes go down faster.
It is what all marine smart teams try to in early game: Kill off as many skulks possible while taking down their nodes. When aliens nodes go down, you start seeing Fades and hive dropped at like 7 minute mark. Good game. By that time you could have 3/2 upgrades.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 11 2005, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 11 2005, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SDJason you still don't get it do you? This is not a discussion about rambos, nor about following orders. Remember, we were talking about marines keeping themselves alive. The point is, in virtually every strategy you choose as comm, a marine can accomplish at least equally well (and usually way better) by staying alive than by dying.
Phase now? sure! I'll phase thru and kill the aliens, saving the phase, while the guy who phased thru and died...did jack squat.
You seem dead bent on the idea that anyone who has a high K:D ratio is ignoring your orders. Sheesh <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Church, but that's not the point. Say that the phase gate IS going down, if I beacon and yell PHASE PHASE PHASE PHASE!, inevitably, maybe three or four guys will die going through first and then the rest phase over and kill the skulks attacking it.
But you see, that's the point. You EXPECT casaulties in that scenario, but it sure as hell doesn't work if NOBODY phases because they don't want to die.
Get the point? That's the point I was trying to make.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
no one is arguing against that rapier...marines that don't phase are silly (unless there's like 2 fades and a few skulks ont he PG in which case you'll just feed them res) and are probably not very good marines anyways.
I'm jusat saying SDJason's completely irrational view that marines should ALWAYS have less kills than deaths is stupid. Good marines WILL sacrifice themselves when needed, but generally will be good enough to still keep a good K:D ratio overall.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 11 2005, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 11 2005, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> no one is arguing against that rapier...marines that don't phase are silly (unless there's like 2 fades and a few skulks ont he PG in which case you'll just feed them res) and are probably not very good marines anyways.
I'm jusat saying SDJason's completely irrational view that marines should ALWAYS have less kills than deaths is stupid. Good marines WILL sacrifice themselves when needed, but generally will be good enough to still keep a good K:D ratio overall. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Church, you are taking me one previously stated and pretty obviously sarcastic cmoment too seriously...
And your qoute<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is not a discussion about rambos, nor about following orders. Remember, we were talking about marines keeping themselves alive. The point is, in virtually every strategy you choose as comm, a marine can accomplish at least equally well (and usually way better) by staying alive than by dying. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm.... NO
This thread was about how marines lives dont matter... go back to the beginning....possibly READ the original post made by Rapier7 here....
Marines lives are worthless... go die...
Id rather have that good shooting rambo over at my phase gate doing what i want than running around the map so i have to deviate my attention from my strategy to med/ammo him... Do you comm at all? Do you realize how freaking hard it is to keep up with more than 1-2 rambos, or how IMMENSELY hard it is to even get to that single rambo in a firefight by a hive......
anyways... i said i dont have a problem with the rambo unless he doesent listen to me when its go time against a hive..
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 11 2005, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 11 2005, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> no one is arguing against that rapier...marines that don't phase are silly (unless there's like 2 fades and a few skulks ont he PG in which case you'll just feed them res) and are probably not very good marines anyways.
I'm jusat saying SDJason's completely irrational view that marines should ALWAYS have less kills than deaths is stupid. Good marines WILL sacrifice themselves when needed, but generally will be good enough to still keep a good K:D ratio overall. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is where hand grenades and medspam comes into play.........
10 marines phasing thru throwing hand grenades with medspam will take a pg back from even 2 fades and a few lerks/skulks
And dont argue against it, because i do it on a regular basis
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
You still don't get it do you. I can phase through to where you want me to phase, and still maintain a good ratio. That is not a bad thing. I will not just die for no reason. I can follow your orders and still try to keep mysaelf alive. Those two are NOT mutually incompatible.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 11 2005, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 11 2005, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You still don't get it do you. I can phase through to where you want me to phase, and still maintain a good ratio. That is not a bad thing. I will not just die for no reason. I can follow your orders and still try to keep mysaelf alive. Those two are NOT mutually incompatible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The point is, i have an endless supply of marines... just a beacon away.. SHoot the damn hive and kill it..
Once the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE goes down (if everyone shoots it, usually in like 8 seconds tops) Then you can **** ARUND WITH THE ALIENS, get your killcount up....
The point is, its a hive rush... the aliens WILL KEEP COMING AND COMING... i want the hive down BEFORE the entire team has a chance to respond and come crashing into thier hive to kill you, because that is when the hiverush is usually LOST
Every single bullet you put into an alien is more HP that hive will have, and though not all of you will survive to put your bullets into the hive, its the solution taht works best, as opposed to EVERYONE wasting thier ammo on taht one skulk, and having 10 marines with thier firepower halved because they all only have 25 rounds in the chamber now, verses 2 dead marines and 8 more with full clips to shoot the hive... DUUH
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 11 2005, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 11 2005, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You still don't get it do you. I can phase through to where you want me to phase, and still maintain a good ratio. That is not a bad thing. I will not just die for no reason. I can follow your orders and still try to keep mysaelf alive. Those two are NOT mutually incompatible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The point is, i have an endless supply of marines... just a beacon away.. SHoot the damn hive and kill it..
Once the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE goes down (if everyone shoots it, usually in like 8 seconds tops) Then you can **** ARUND WITH THE ALIENS, get your killcount up....
The point is, its a hive rush... the aliens WILL KEEP COMING AND COMING... i want the hive down BEFORE the entire team has a chance to respond and come crashing into thier hive to kill you, because that is when the hiverush is usually LOST
Every single bullet you put into an alien is more HP that hive will have, and though not all of you will survive to put your bullets into the hive, its the solution taht works best, as opposed to EVERYONE wasting thier ammo on taht one skulk, and having 10 marines with thier firepower halved because they all only have 25 rounds in the chamber now, verses 2 dead marines and 8 more with full clips to shoot the hive... DUUH
1. Beaconing takes a lot of res. If you have to beacon a few times, then it will take 30+ res in order to accomplish your objective.
2. Beaconing prevents your marines from going to another area of the map. While you are sending your marines through the phase gate in a suicide rush, the aliens can take down all your RTs and cap all the nodes for themselves. In addition, they can place down the third hive while you are trying to take one of their current hives.
3. If you are sending your marines on a suicide rush, then the aliens will be getting a lot of kills. The R4K will pretty much guarantee that you will be seeing a few more fades/onoses/lerks after a minute or two.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds quickly, then it will set the aliens back a lot, without giving them a lot of R4K res.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds, but after a long battle, then the aliens will have taken over the rest of the map and will have lots of R4K res. They probably put up their third hive while you were fighting, too. This is really bad.
If your suicide run on a hive fails, then you lose map control, the aliens get R4K, and they get a third hive. You're screwed.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 11 2005, 10:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 11 2005, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SDJason, I have a few points for you to consider:
1. Beaconing takes a lot of res. If you have to beacon a few times, then it will take 30+ res in order to accomplish your objective.
2. Beaconing prevents your marines from going to another area of the map. While you are sending your marines through the phase gate in a suicide rush, the aliens can take down all your RTs and cap all the nodes for themselves. In addition, they can place down the third hive while you are trying to take one of their current hives.
3. If you are sending your marines on a suicide rush, then the aliens will be getting a lot of kills. The R4K will pretty much guarantee that you will be seeing a few more fades/onoses/lerks after a minute or two.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds quickly, then it will set the aliens back a lot, without giving them a lot of R4K res.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds, but after a long battle, then the aliens will have taken over the rest of the map and will have lots of R4K res. They probably put up their third hive while you were fighting, too. This is really bad.
If your suicide run on a hive fails, then you lose map control, the aliens get R4K, and they get a third hive. You're screwed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. Hives cost a lot of res, and id rather get it down right quick......
2. Ironically, i dont care how much res the aliens have, and since there are only three places on the map where an alien hive can be made, i really only need the marines in one place, the alien hive(s) because thats our objective, to kill it... If you think about the RTS aspect, getting the hive/cc is the main objective, it is the king in chess, once those are taken, you've won the chess game.....
3. Once again, the hive is more important than anything else, it takes 3 minutes to make a new one, and in that three minutes i will have taken the other two out using the same methods... Have you ever fought a hive one onos? its pathetic, id rather give them the res to go onos, and have them at hive one, than have them at hive 2 without the onos.......
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If your suicide run on a hive succeeds quickly, then it will set the aliens back a lot, without giving them a lot of R4K res. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, thats why i want you shooting the hive, not the o chambers, resnodes, d chambers, or aliens.. HIVE HIVE HIVE
I can beacon and beacno and beacon and beacon, and ull just keep assaulting and assaulting, and once that hive goes down, no matter how much rfk they have, i now have 2 minutes to go cap nodes and research stuff before i have to worry about assaulting another hive....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If your suicide run on a hive fails, then you lose map control, the aliens get R4K, and they get a third hive. You're screwed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh, even with aliens having 3 hives, if you IGNORE THE ALIENS and shoot the hives ONLY, ive come back more times than i can count.... seriously, every single bullet that goes into an alien is longer it will take the hive to go down, longer it has to regenerate HP, and more time for other aliens to come back and defend it, its a HIVE RUSH, kill it...
My comming strategy is to always be on the offensive, attacking nothing but hives, absolutely nothing but hives. I cant remember the last time i built a tf, or even a field armory, i attack hives with incredible efficiency.
You all think im crazy, because id rather see you get 20 shots into the hive before dying to one skulk than shooting the skulk.... If you take the time to shoot taht skulk, the hive will still be up, and as ur reloading, two more skulks come and finish you all off.....
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
With 12v12 if the aliens don't have web, it IS possible to just bum rush the hive I guess fi you have enough res to beacon I guess.
But, who NOT just hand all 11 of your marines shotguns? If all marines empty like 3/4 of their clip the hive is gone. 6 shots is like about? 3 seconds?
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> With 12v12 if the aliens don't have web, it IS possible to just bum rush the hive I guess fi you have enough res to beacon I guess.
But, who NOT just hand all 11 of your marines shotguns? If all marines empty like 3/4 of their clip the hive is gone. 6 shots is like about? 3 seconds? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you are correct....
I like a struggle, and i find my method harder, so i do it because you feel more accomplished afterwards....
<!--QuoteBegin-SDJason+Feb 12 2005, 07:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SDJason @ Feb 12 2005, 07:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like a struggle, and i find my method harder, so i do it because you feel more accomplished afterwards....
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So your strategy makes you more likely to lose, which makes the game more difficult, which is why you like it?
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 12 2005, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 12 2005, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SDJason+Feb 12 2005, 07:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SDJason @ Feb 12 2005, 07:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like a struggle, and i find my method harder, so i do it because you feel more accomplished afterwards....
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So your strategy makes you more likely to lose, which makes the game more difficult, which is why you like it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yupp i guess so...
I create an uphill battle... then fight my way out of it....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If Leetzor Clanner is over there and you're with him, and one of you has to die, let it be you. It's for the greater good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Leetzor clanzor" would've rushed and owned 10 skulk in chem trans on tanith if that happened.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-SDJason+Feb 12 2005, 10:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SDJason @ Feb 12 2005, 10:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> just dont argue with my statement here... as odd as it seems
6v6, i cant do shi with
8-9 per team and my strats work ALL the time
12V12 Rfk becomes an issue, and then i have the uphill battle going
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So what you're saying is you're good at sending 100+ marines at a set point and letting them shoot the hive? (2)NSPlayer can do that. Strategy relies around when to use the mass rush strat to whittle the hive to death and when to play intelligently and out-think instead of out-gun aliens, because sometimes only one or the other is going to work.
(No Im not in Afghanistan yet, yes I will be in a month or two. Will be uploading some new NSLearn Articles this week for those interested).
Comments
But if the rest of the marine team is taking down a building hive, wouldnt it be cool ot have a good player block the path there and kill any skulk trying to reinforce?
Yeh, thought so.
[Edit] I think the problem here is that most people just dont understand how a player can effect a situation in place A by doing things at B. Spawncamping the hive gives the rest of your team free reign of the map. Pressuring cargo on ns_veil means that the marines taking down dbl rts are safe. If you have a player going 15-0 to the next best players 6-7, perhaps you should consider if that players obvious experience makes the game tell him something else than it tells you. Like why standing in cargo when the hive is waste while two teammates are taking down acidic might be a good idea.
And what if the Skulks are taking an alternate route to the hive? The rambo is once again being useless, scoring miniscule amounts of RFK that won't cover the costs of PG, TF, upgrade, and sieges should the attempt at taking down the hive fail.
And what if the Skulks are taking an alternate route to the hive? The rambo is once again being useless, scoring miniscule amounts of RFK that won't cover the costs of PG, TF, upgrade, and sieges should the attempt at taking down the hive fail. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, perhaps that obviously superior player knows something you dont?
You dont start racking up three times the kills of everyone else on the server if you're not better than them. And it does require a certain feel of the game, a knowledge of how to position yourself and where to move to be the most effective.
Think of it for a while.
Good rambos know where to go at what time, and can shoot well enough to keep the enemy busy. They are indispensable.
But if the rest of the marine team is taking down a building hive, wouldnt it be cool ot have a good player block the path there and kill any skulk trying to reinforce?
Yeh, thought so.
[Edit] I think the problem here is that most people just dont understand how a player can effect a situation in place A by doing things at B. Spawncamping the hive gives the rest of your team free reign of the map. Pressuring cargo on ns_veil means that the marines taking down dbl rts are safe. If you have a player going 15-0 to the next best players 6-7, perhaps you should consider if that players obvious experience makes the game tell him something else than it tells you. Like why standing in cargo when the hive is waste while two teammates are taking down acidic might be a good idea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh, the point would be im the comm and im running my strat...
I can better aid the marines who are following what i want them to do because i have MY plan in MY head and i can work with it..
Rambos screw me up in that i cant concentrate on my goal of keeping my mates alive, ordering them, droppin sieges, tfs, welders, meds, phases, guns, telling them when to go in, scanning... and all that hectic ****
Cuz of a rambo, who no matter how benefitial he may be in stemming reinforcements to the hive (best case scenario) Im less effective in my goal..
Case 1. That rambo not being there results in the loss of the phase, its completely speculative but logical since one more body would have meant more bullets and more bites until all the marines are down
Case 2. That marine stems off the reinforcements to a hive that we would otherwise have lost the phase gate whether he was there or not, once again speculative...
It comes down to one thing, im the comm, its my damn strategy, do what i ask (if i dont directly say phase, or give any orders, it means ur doing fine and im working elsewhere, so do whateverthe **** you please, but if i give you an order, please friggin do it, cuz i can only multitask so much, and i hate losing a pg while im off dropping half my rambo **** heads meds/ammo, even if they kill 80 percent of the alien reinforcements, there still could be an onos that gets the pg down with 200hp left, which that idiot rambo(s) could haev killed and enough people would still be alive to kill the 80 percent of the alien team..(speculative)
Everyhing above is speculative, the point is, im the comm, and i need to make the strategies, because no matter how adaptive i am, adaption takes time, and 3 seconds of re formulating a plan for a rambo who wont listen could mean a win or loss of the game(again speculative, but you get my point)
ANd with that said.... i leave you
~Jason
Hehehe... id invite you to the NSA server.... where sometimes i cant even command my team on these types of rushes because there so giggly over the voicecomm yelling and screaming and laughing and working together and welding and shooting and dying..... Meh... FUN ****
~Jason
Phase now? sure! I'll phase thru and kill the aliens, saving the phase, while the guy who phased thru and died...did jack squat.
You seem dead bent on the idea that anyone who has a high K:D ratio is ignoring your orders. Sheesh
That is exactly what good marines can do, although they usually do that in a group. so the nodes go down faster.
It is what all marine smart teams try to in early game: Kill off as many skulks possible while taking down their nodes. When aliens nodes go down, you start seeing Fades and hive dropped at like 7 minute mark. Good game. By that time you could have 3/2 upgrades.
Phase now? sure! I'll phase thru and kill the aliens, saving the phase, while the guy who phased thru and died...did jack squat.
You seem dead bent on the idea that anyone who has a high K:D ratio is ignoring your orders. Sheesh <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Church, but that's not the point. Say that the phase gate IS going down, if I beacon and yell PHASE PHASE PHASE PHASE!, inevitably, maybe three or four guys will die going through first and then the rest phase over and kill the skulks attacking it.
But you see, that's the point. You EXPECT casaulties in that scenario, but it sure as hell doesn't work if NOBODY phases because they don't want to die.
Get the point? That's the point I was trying to make.
I'm jusat saying SDJason's completely irrational view that marines should ALWAYS have less kills than deaths is stupid. Good marines WILL sacrifice themselves when needed, but generally will be good enough to still keep a good K:D ratio overall.
I'm jusat saying SDJason's completely irrational view that marines should ALWAYS have less kills than deaths is stupid. Good marines WILL sacrifice themselves when needed, but generally will be good enough to still keep a good K:D ratio overall. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Church, you are taking me one previously stated and pretty obviously sarcastic cmoment too seriously...
Chill <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And your qoute<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is not a discussion about rambos, nor about following orders. Remember, we were talking about marines keeping themselves alive. The point is, in virtually every strategy you choose as comm, a marine can accomplish at least equally well (and usually way better) by staying alive than by dying.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm.... NO
This thread was about how marines lives dont matter... go back to the beginning....possibly READ the original post made by Rapier7 here....
Marines lives are worthless... go die...
Id rather have that good shooting rambo over at my phase gate doing what i want than running around the map so i have to deviate my attention from my strategy to med/ammo him... Do you comm at all? Do you realize how freaking hard it is to keep up with more than 1-2 rambos, or how IMMENSELY hard it is to even get to that single rambo in a firefight by a hive......
anyways... i said i dont have a problem with the rambo unless he doesent listen to me when its go time against a hive..
Anyways... enuff said
~Jason
I'm jusat saying SDJason's completely irrational view that marines should ALWAYS have less kills than deaths is stupid. Good marines WILL sacrifice themselves when needed, but generally will be good enough to still keep a good K:D ratio overall. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is where hand grenades and medspam comes into play.........
10 marines phasing thru throwing hand grenades with medspam will take a pg back from even 2 fades and a few lerks/skulks
And dont argue against it, because i do it on a regular basis
~Jason
The point is, i have an endless supply of marines... just a beacon away.. SHoot the damn hive and kill it..
Once the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE goes down (if everyone shoots it, usually in like 8 seconds tops) Then you can **** ARUND WITH THE ALIENS, get your killcount up....
The point is, its a hive rush... the aliens WILL KEEP COMING AND COMING... i want the hive down BEFORE the entire team has a chance to respond and come crashing into thier hive to kill you, because that is when the hiverush is usually LOST
Every single bullet you put into an alien is more HP that hive will have, and though not all of you will survive to put your bullets into the hive, its the solution taht works best, as opposed to EVERYONE wasting thier ammo on taht one skulk, and having 10 marines with thier firepower halved because they all only have 25 rounds in the chamber now, verses 2 dead marines and 8 more with full clips to shoot the hive... DUUH
~Jason
The point is, i have an endless supply of marines... just a beacon away.. SHoot the damn hive and kill it..
Once the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE goes down (if everyone shoots it, usually in like 8 seconds tops) Then you can **** ARUND WITH THE ALIENS, get your killcount up....
The point is, its a hive rush... the aliens WILL KEEP COMING AND COMING... i want the hive down BEFORE the entire team has a chance to respond and come crashing into thier hive to kill you, because that is when the hiverush is usually LOST
Every single bullet you put into an alien is more HP that hive will have, and though not all of you will survive to put your bullets into the hive, its the solution taht works best, as opposed to EVERYONE wasting thier ammo on taht one skulk, and having 10 marines with thier firepower halved because they all only have 25 rounds in the chamber now, verses 2 dead marines and 8 more with full clips to shoot the hive... DUUH
~Jason
1. Beaconing takes a lot of res. If you have to beacon a few times, then it will take 30+ res in order to accomplish your objective.
2. Beaconing prevents your marines from going to another area of the map. While you are sending your marines through the phase gate in a suicide rush, the aliens can take down all your RTs and cap all the nodes for themselves. In addition, they can place down the third hive while you are trying to take one of their current hives.
3. If you are sending your marines on a suicide rush, then the aliens will be getting a lot of kills. The R4K will pretty much guarantee that you will be seeing a few more fades/onoses/lerks after a minute or two.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds quickly, then it will set the aliens back a lot, without giving them a lot of R4K res.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds, but after a long battle, then the aliens will have taken over the rest of the map and will have lots of R4K res. They probably put up their third hive while you were fighting, too. This is really bad.
If your suicide run on a hive fails, then you lose map control, the aliens get R4K, and they get a third hive. You're screwed.
1. Beaconing takes a lot of res. If you have to beacon a few times, then it will take 30+ res in order to accomplish your objective.
2. Beaconing prevents your marines from going to another area of the map. While you are sending your marines through the phase gate in a suicide rush, the aliens can take down all your RTs and cap all the nodes for themselves. In addition, they can place down the third hive while you are trying to take one of their current hives.
3. If you are sending your marines on a suicide rush, then the aliens will be getting a lot of kills. The R4K will pretty much guarantee that you will be seeing a few more fades/onoses/lerks after a minute or two.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds quickly, then it will set the aliens back a lot, without giving them a lot of R4K res.
If your suicide run on a hive succeeds, but after a long battle, then the aliens will have taken over the rest of the map and will have lots of R4K res. They probably put up their third hive while you were fighting, too. This is really bad.
If your suicide run on a hive fails, then you lose map control, the aliens get R4K, and they get a third hive. You're screwed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Hives cost a lot of res, and id rather get it down right quick......
2. Ironically, i dont care how much res the aliens have, and since there are only three places on the map where an alien hive can be made, i really only need the marines in one place, the alien hive(s) because thats our objective, to kill it... If you think about the RTS aspect, getting the hive/cc is the main objective, it is the king in chess, once those are taken, you've won the chess game.....
3. Once again, the hive is more important than anything else, it takes 3 minutes to make a new one, and in that three minutes i will have taken the other two out using the same methods... Have you ever fought a hive one onos? its pathetic, id rather give them the res to go onos, and have them at hive one, than have them at hive 2 without the onos.......
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If your suicide run on a hive succeeds quickly, then it will set the aliens back a lot, without giving them a lot of R4K res.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, thats why i want you shooting the hive, not the o chambers, resnodes, d chambers, or aliens.. HIVE HIVE HIVE
I can beacon and beacno and beacon and beacon, and ull just keep assaulting and assaulting, and once that hive goes down, no matter how much rfk they have, i now have 2 minutes to go cap nodes and research stuff before i have to worry about assaulting another hive....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If your suicide run on a hive fails, then you lose map control, the aliens get R4K, and they get a third hive. You're screwed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh, even with aliens having 3 hives, if you IGNORE THE ALIENS and shoot the hives ONLY, ive come back more times than i can count.... seriously, every single bullet that goes into an alien is longer it will take the hive to go down, longer it has to regenerate HP, and more time for other aliens to come back and defend it, its a HIVE RUSH, kill it...
My comming strategy is to always be on the offensive, attacking nothing but hives, absolutely nothing but hives. I cant remember the last time i built a tf, or even a field armory, i attack hives with incredible efficiency.
You all think im crazy, because id rather see you get 20 shots into the hive before dying to one skulk than shooting the skulk.... If you take the time to shoot taht skulk, the hive will still be up, and as ur reloading, two more skulks come and finish you all off.....
To each his own, but thats how i comm
~Jason
GG.
-dont kill your rt's
-dont have res for oc's
-cant do **** all, generally.
But, who NOT just hand all 11 of your marines shotguns? If all marines empty like 3/4 of their clip the hive is gone. 6 shots is like about? 3 seconds?
But, who NOT just hand all 11 of your marines shotguns? If all marines empty like 3/4 of their clip the hive is gone. 6 shots is like about? 3 seconds? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are correct....
I like a struggle, and i find my method harder, so i do it because you feel more accomplished afterwards....
~Jason
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your strategy makes you more likely to lose, which makes the game more difficult, which is why you like it?
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your strategy makes you more likely to lose, which makes the game more difficult, which is why you like it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yupp i guess so...
I create an uphill battle... then fight my way out of it....
~Jason
6v6, i cant do shi with
8-9 per team and my strats work ALL the time
12V12 Rfk becomes an issue, and then i have the uphill battle going
~Jason
"Leetzor clanzor" would've rushed and owned 10 skulk in chem trans on tanith if that happened.
6v6, i cant do shi with
8-9 per team and my strats work ALL the time
12V12 Rfk becomes an issue, and then i have the uphill battle going
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what you're saying is you're good at sending 100+ marines at a set point and letting them shoot the hive? (2)NSPlayer can do that. Strategy relies around when to use the mass rush strat to whittle the hive to death and when to play intelligently and out-think instead of out-gun aliens, because sometimes only one or the other is going to work.
(No Im not in Afghanistan yet, yes I will be in a month or two. Will be uploading some new NSLearn Articles this week for those interested).